24 replies to this topic

[steelsky]

Well, I actually take Ritalin (Methylphenidate, usually as 54mg Concerta) for excessive daytime sleepiness, with good results.
I also alternate with Modafinil for a few months now, but it's much weaker.
I'm thinking about trying Adderall and I'm wondering about the major differences.
In Ritalin I like the fact that it keeps me energies and motivated. The things I don't like is the jitters and frankly the increased sex drive (my libido is sometimes out of control when on it).

[Barksdale]

Adderall is way stronger, and I don't really think the side effects are so much worse either, it's supposedly very addictive though. Remember it's speed right. For studying I've heard that Dexedrine is better though. Btw where are you planning on getting Adderall? It's really hard to get online=P

[bgwithadd]

It's nuerotoxic, for starters. It also hammers the CNS almost exclusively, which can make you feel sleepy not 'energized'. I really would not use it for that purpose.

[steelsky]

It's nuerotoxic, for starters. It also hammers the CNS almost exclusively, which can make you feel sleepy not 'energized'. I really would not use it for that purpose.

You're writing about Adderall, right?
Than what are the advantages of it over Ritalin? I mean, there must be something, or else it wouldn't have been so popular.

[bgwithadd]

It's nuerotoxic, for starters. It also hammers the CNS almost exclusively, which can make you feel sleepy not 'energized'. I really would not use it for that purpose.

You're writing about Adderall, right?
Than what are the advantages of it over Ritalin? I mean, there must be something, or else it wouldn't have been so popular.

It's great for attention, but as a narcolepsy treatment it is questionable, especially since you need big doses to get much energy from adderall. Also, people just like it. Not everyone gets much but the euphoria it produces is like nothing else except ecstasy (which of course, is also neurotoxic).

[luv2increase]

For me and my limited use with both, I'd say that ritalin has a much more pronounced stimulant effect. Adderall was like eating candy :(

[steelsky]

It's nuerotoxic, for starters. It also hammers the CNS almost exclusively, which can make you feel sleepy not 'energized'. I really would not use it for that purpose.

You're writing about Adderall, right?
Than what are the advantages of it over Ritalin? I mean, there must be something, or else it wouldn't have been so popular.

It's great for attention, but as a narcolepsy treatment it is questionable, especially since you need big doses to get much energy from adderall. Also, people just like it. Not everyone gets much but the euphoria it produces is like nothing else except ecstasy (which of course, is also neurotoxic).

I see. And Ritalin isn't neurotoxic, right?
Ritalin's action seems very similar to SSRIs and SNRIs only influencing mainly dopamine and neurepinephrine. Regardless of its effect on alertness, it DOES give me a sense of boosted motivation. It's hardly euphoria, but I enjoy it very much (keeps me very productive). Modafinil has a similar effect, in a way, but I'm having trouble with dosing (sometimes I take 100mg and it isn't enough, sometimes 200mg is too much, but I discover it only when I'm well into my work process).

[bgwithadd]

I think all brain meds are somewhat neurotoxic, but ritalin is not any worse than an SSRI in that sense. You'd have to take very high doses to really worry about it much. With adderall it's worrying at any dose, and severe problems at high doses. You can get a mood boost from anything that ups dopamine - basically ritalin is cocaine that lasts longer and is generally taken in smaller doses. Amphetamines are completely unique and really only practical for treating ADHD. Modafinil is certainly a lot less problem prone than adderall, too, but it's still a drug and I would not go too crazy with it. You might try switching up between ritalin and modafinil and caffeine to avoid tolerance to any of them. Possibly nicotine patch.

Also, I am not sure why people don't take wellbutrin for narcolepsy. I think it has a bad reputation for dangerousness but it's fine for most people. Anyway, it seems to keep me awake better than anything else does. I really don't stay up later at all from taking adderall, generally you need to take a lot before you get into the amounts that help you keep awake and you really don't want to take 100mg of adderall just to stay awake late. I also find it gives me a lot of drive. Nicotine patch is great for this, too, but don't work out while wearing one or your heart will go crazy. You could also try ECGC, which increases NE and gives me much the same effect (but makes me irritable).

[SYNTAX]

Well, I actually take Ritalin (Methylphenidate, usually as 54mg Concerta) for excessive daytime sleepiness, with good results.
I also alternate with Modafinil for a few months now, but it's much weaker.
I'm thinking about trying Adderall and I'm wondering about the major differences.
In Ritalin I like the fact that it keeps me energies and motivated. The things I don't like is the jitters and frankly the increased sex drive (my libido is sometimes out of control when on it).

I have been on ADHD medications for 16 years (since I was 5). Currently, I take 70mg Adderall per day. Before that (for 4 years) I took Focalin. Before that, concerta. And in the earliest years, I took Ritalin. Focalin is more like cocaine, in the particular way it heightens the senses. I would have continued taking it, but I always experience tachyphylaxis with my medications. Adderall xr has the potential to cause mood swings however I've never experienced them. Adderall is far more potent, and if you do have a tachyphylactic response to the adderall, you can potentiate the duration of its effect by taking antacids on an empty stomach 30 minutes before taking the adderall. Also, a more intense experience is to be had by injesting 1 tblspn of baking soda 1 hour before taking the adderall.

[steelsky]

I think all brain meds are somewhat neurotoxic, but ritalin is not any worse than an SSRI in that sense. You'd have to take very high doses to really worry about it much. With adderall it's worrying at any dose, and severe problems at high doses. You can get a mood boost from anything that ups dopamine - basically ritalin is cocaine that lasts longer and is generally taken in smaller doses. Amphetamines are completely unique and really only practical for treating ADHD. Modafinil is certainly a lot less problem prone than adderall, too, but it's still a drug and I would not go too crazy with it. You might try switching up between ritalin and modafinil and caffeine to avoid tolerance to any of them. Possibly nicotine patch.

Also, I am not sure why people don't take wellbutrin for narcolepsy. I think it has a bad reputation for dangerousness but it's fine for most people. Anyway, it seems to keep me awake better than anything else does. I really don't stay up later at all from taking adderall, generally you need to take a lot before you get into the amounts that help you keep awake and you really don't want to take 100mg of adderall just to stay awake late. I also find it gives me a lot of drive. Nicotine patch is great for this, too, but don't work out while wearing one or your heart will go crazy. You could also try ECGC, which increases NE and gives me much the same effect (but makes me irritable).

Interesting about the wellbutrin. I've been meaning to try it but I think some comments about its riskiness kept me away. It's mechanism of action seems pretty similar to Ritalin's. Why do you prefer it? Is it considered safer than Ritalin? Also, does it last longer? What is the relation to nicotine (I've never smoked)?
Did you try Ritalin/Modafinil?

[GoodFellas]

Stimulant X 2.0 supposedly works just as great as Adderall and it's easier to get without a prescription.

[bgwithadd]

I think all brain meds are somewhat neurotoxic, but ritalin is not any worse than an SSRI in that sense. You'd have to take very high doses to really worry about it much. With adderall it's worrying at any dose, and severe problems at high doses. You can get a mood boost from anything that ups dopamine - basically ritalin is cocaine that lasts longer and is generally taken in smaller doses. Amphetamines are completely unique and really only practical for treating ADHD. Modafinil is certainly a lot less problem prone than adderall, too, but it's still a drug and I would not go too crazy with it. You might try switching up between ritalin and modafinil and caffeine to avoid tolerance to any of them. Possibly nicotine patch.

Also, I am not sure why people don't take wellbutrin for narcolepsy. I think it has a bad reputation for dangerousness but it's fine for most people. Anyway, it seems to keep me awake better than anything else does. I really don't stay up later at all from taking adderall, generally you need to take a lot before you get into the amounts that help you keep awake and you really don't want to take 100mg of adderall just to stay awake late. I also find it gives me a lot of drive. Nicotine patch is great for this, too, but don't work out while wearing one or your heart will go crazy. You could also try ECGC, which increases NE and gives me much the same effect (but makes me irritable).

Interesting about the wellbutrin. I've been meaning to try it but I think some comments about its riskiness kept me away. It's mechanism of action seems pretty similar to Ritalin's. Why do you prefer it? Is it considered safer than Ritalin? Also, does it last longer? What is the relation to nicotine (I've never smoked)?
Did you try Ritalin/Modafinil?

It does some of what ritalin does on dopamine, but mostly it directly ups NE as NE reuptake inhibitor instead of indirectly. It really keeps you awake, and gives energy. The drive I get is not like anything else, too. I do not get drive as such from anything but wellbutrin or nicotine patch. The wellbutrin comes int hree types that last 6 hours, 12 hours, or 17 hours. Only downside is it can cause anxiety. Its dangerousness is really overstated.

Nicotine patch is like taking 50% adderall, 50% wellbutrin, except you get more of a mood lift. So, you can get manicky and irritable on it. Or at least I can.

[dumbdumb]

bg,

So you're saying that a direct feed of nicotine is a viable alternative nootropic to Alderal, Ritalin and Modafinil? What about the relative/comparative effects not just on energy/wakefulness but cognitive function, memory, emotional state (and flexibility, so that you can "feel" appropriately in different situations instead of always being happy, etc.) ? How different is nicotine from the rest in those regards?
Have you taken deprenyl/seleligine/EMSAM? If so, how do they compare to nicotine?

Thanks!

Edited by dumbdumb, 30 March 2009 - 03:42 AM.

[bgwithadd]

How owuld they make you all happy? If anything, if you take too much nicotine you will be irritable and snappy, however you can control it if you think of it because you have betetr self control. Also confidence. Also, like I said you wont get any wakefulness from wadderall and not much from ritalin without big doses. You'll get a ton from wellbutrin, and a fair bit from nicotine but not as much as wellbutrin. Itake 5mg of deprenyl every day. It really dosesn't do a lot, kind of like taking 2,5 mg of adderall plus I get some ears ringing etc. that is not good.

[dumbdumb]

How owuld they make you all happy? If anything, if you take too much nicotine you will be irritable and snappy, however you can control it if you think of it because you have betetr self control. Also confidence. Also, like I said you wont get any wakefulness from wadderall and not much from ritalin without big doses. You'll get a ton from wellbutrin, and a fair bit from nicotine but not as much as wellbutrin. Itake 5mg of deprenyl every day. It really dosesn't do a lot, kind of like taking 2,5 mg of adderall plus I get some ears ringing etc. that is not good.

If the deprenyl doesn't do a lot, and makes your ears ring, what advantages does it grant you that are sufficient to motivate you to continue taking it?
I wasn't asking about whether nicotine would make one happy, I apologize if the wording was unclear; I was asking if the other substances referenced were any different to nicotine in that regard.
I'm just trying to figure out what I should be taking that won't bring leave me feeling worse than before once homeostasis kicks in.

[Lurker]

From opinion and anecdote:

Adderall has a distinct "pleasurable" feel to it. A majority of reports that compare both drugs for recreational purpose state that adderrall is a "better feeling." Science suggests nuerotoxicity.

Some reports state that Ritalin is "not addictive" and some users "do not even realize that they are on it" (assuming this is in therapitical doses only). Does not have the same "pleasure component."

Both will give you a wired focus. One just seems to have a more likely chance of abuse potential.

[Lurker]

Also, I am not sure why people don't take wellbutrin for narcolepsy.

Narcolespy (reducing day time sleepiness) is one of the approved uses for Wellbutrin. No idea how popular it is though.

[steelsky]

Can anyone else confirm that Wellbutrin is good for excessive sleepiness?

[bgwithadd]

I didn't realize it was approved for that.

Of course it's just me still but insomnia is the number one side effect of wellbutrin. It's listed first on its sheet. Or so I remember, might be wrong I guess. Actually I think it's the only thing I know of that reduced total amount of sleep you need, especially if you cycle on and off it you will have great difficulty sleeping but you won't quite need to sleep so much either. It's strong enough that using it on and off like that might not be wise, though. You really feel the effects from quitting and it can take a month to get back to normal.

[Lurker]

Can anyone else confirm that Wellbutrin is good for excessive sleepiness?

Wellbutrin has a "stimulating" quality, i have tried it before, but really do not know what to compare it to. It can be a hit or a miss since it has alot of anti-depresent side affects and qualities.

It has a lower abuse potential then ritalin and adderal, and i believe a doctor would prefer to prescribe it over the first two because it is not a scheduled substance like ritalin and adderall.

[steelsky]

Can anyone else confirm that Wellbutrin is good for excessive sleepiness?

Wellbutrin has a "stimulating" quality, i have tried it before, but really do not know what to compare it to. It can be a hit or a miss since it has alot of anti-depresent side affects and qualities.

It has a lower abuse potential then ritalin and adderal, and i believe a doctor would prefer to prescribe it over the first two because it is not a scheduled substance like ritalin and adderall.

I believe Wellbutrin and Ritalin are both DNRIs.
Has anyone tried them both and can testify on the difference?

[bgwithadd]

Wellbutrin affects dopamine, but its main action comes from NE. Its metabolites are actually what has most of the effect on NE. It increases dopamine something like 20%, but NE by a staggering amount.

[steelsky]

Wellbutrin affects dopamine, but its main action comes from NE. Its metabolites are actually what has most of the effect on NE. It increases dopamine something like 20%, but NE by a staggering amount.

"It is about twice as potent an inhibitor of dopamine reuptake than of norepinephrine reuptake."

From Wikipedia.
Where did you get your 20% theory?

[ultranaut]

Can anyone else confirm that Wellbutrin is good for excessive sleepiness?

Wellbutrin has a "stimulating" quality, i have tried it before, but really do not know what to compare it to. It can be a hit or a miss since it has alot of anti-depresent side affects and qualities.

It has a lower abuse potential then ritalin and adderal, and i believe a doctor would prefer to prescribe it over the first two because it is not a scheduled substance like ritalin and adderall.

I believe Wellbutrin and Ritalin are both DNRIs.
Has anyone tried them both and can testify on the difference?

Sorry to bump an old thread but I am currently taking Wellbutrin and Concerta (it's essentially ritalin in a high tech time release pill). I've only take the Wellbutrin by itself, it's been great overall. I've found it to be somewhat stimulating, but not significantly so. The Concerta hasn't added too much to that but I do think it has improved my focus, it's also made my insomnia a bit more pronounced. I do feel like there is some other aspect that is diminished by the focus it brings, I get a kind of seriousness to my personality that doesn't lend itself well to interacting with people socially. I'll probably try something else next, but if I can't find anything better Concerta is an improvement.

I've also tried Straterra, I think it is overpriced shit. I made it a week on the lowest doseage before I had to give up from the terrible side effects.

[bluebird2]

For those interested in the comparison of ritalin and adderall, this article discusses ritalin vs adderall.

Importantly, adderall might be slightly more effective. But it might also be slightly more neurotoxic. So YMMV.