17 replies to this topic

[hollywood_69]

hi, all 1st post. long time troller? I was watching Dr. Oz the other day and he had a holistic Dr. on Mercola was the name. Dr. Mercola said that aszanthin was the most powerful antioxident and he pretty much just raged about it! I did some more research and did notice that there are side effects, I will probally wait til I'm older take it, but I was wondering if any of you had heard of it and what your thoughts are?

Thanks

[1kgcoffee]

First, Dr Mercola is a twat.

Like most carotenoids, astaxanthin, it's good for vision, sperm motility, skin and general health in conservative doses (<8mg/day). Higher doses are associated with increased risk of lung cancer. It is a pretty powerful anti-oxidant, but we need some oxidative stress to be healthy, Personally I wouldn't recommend taking it unless you have good reason. Focus on diet instead.

[hollywood_69]

Thanks, I went on his website, and needless to say my anxiety nerves struck a 10!! I guess we all need to live in tee pees in the middle of nowhere according to him! I was just wondering, I suffer from health anxiety and I'm the type of person that has OD'ed on Greent Tea! ( yes you can do that) I will stay away from the astanthin.

[JKDC]

Would you explain how much Green Tea you took and what your symptoms were?


This study used 12-18mg/day Astaxanthin to increase HDL and reduce triglycerides.

http://www.worldheal...sterol-profile/

Edited by JKDC, 22 January 2011 - 06:36 AM.

[hollywood_69]

It was summertime, and I drank it as my only fluid. I may have been exagerating, but my symptoms were increase in anxiety, racing heart, diareaha (sp), and insomnia. If I have 1 cup, I notice a increase in anxiety.

[mikeinnaples]

It was summertime, and I drank it as my only fluid. I may have been exagerating, but my symptoms were increase in anxiety, racing heart, diareaha (sp), and insomnia. If I have 1 cup, I notice a increase in anxiety.

Some of that is consistent with caffeine ..and green tea has quite a bit.

[mikeinnaples]

First, Dr Mercola is a twat.

I second this ..and would also like to add the Dr. Oz is a hack -and- a twat as well.

[TomH]

First, Dr Mercola is a twat.

I second this ..and would also like to add the Dr. Oz is a hack -and- a twat as well.

Twats - schmots. Mercola extols the benefits of astaxanthin, luckily for me. I had some skin cancers that had been cryo-treated several times and still came back. Next step: serious disfigurement surgery. Instead I started on the astaxanthin and two weeks later all the cancers became red/inflamed as the healing process started.. Long story short, eight gone (new healthy skin) and the nastiest/oldest three have shrunk and are on the way out. I saved face.

[Al-Iksir]

Instead I started on the astaxanthin and two weeks later all the cancers became red/inflamed as the healing process started.

How much astaxanthin did you use?

[8bitmore]

I've taken Astaxanthin for about 6 months now, 4mg daily. There's been no huge difference in health from a subjective standpoint (no miracles in skin health, energy or otherwise but then I don't have problems with those domains either) but I'm pretty sure that my long range vision in marginally better which is welcome surprise.

edit: could we have the title of this thread fixed? (this seems to be coming a habit of mine, big thank you to the mod(s) maintaining this forum!)

Edited by 8bitmore, 10 November 2011 - 10:10 AM.

[niner]

Mercola extols the benefits of astaxanthin, luckily for me. I had some skin cancers that had been cryo-treated several times and still came back. Next step: serious disfigurement surgery. Instead I started on the astaxanthin and two weeks later all the cancers became red/inflamed as the healing process started.. Long story short, eight gone (new healthy skin) and the nastiest/oldest three have shrunk and are on the way out. I saved face.

I doubt you had skin cancer. No dermatologist would cryo-treat a real skin cancer; the standard of care is excision. You probably had actinic keratoses, which are usually treated by spraying with liquid nitrogen. I've had a million of them. Over time, they can develop into a cancer, and your doctor might have referred to them as "pre-cancerous". Keratoses will also resolve from topical immunomodulators, and a topical retinoid can hold them at bay if not eliminate them. Astaxanthin is structurally related to retinoids, so this effect makes some sense. Retinoids have their own set of toxicities, but supplemental carotenoids are associated with increased risk of some cancers, so I'm wary of them.

Mercola extols all sorts of things, and sometimes he's right. He's wrong often enough that I don't consider him a reliable source of information.

[8bitmore]

Mercola extols all sorts of things, and sometimes he's right. He's wrong often enough that I don't consider him a reliable source of information.

I totally concur here, I'm getting a newsletter from him that filters straight into separate folder in gmail but when I ever so often (2-3 months+) look at what he is writing there will sometimes be a nugget of gold in there that leads to useful research spree on the interwebs and almost always a lot of crud.

Back on the Astaxanthin topic: I have a sense that it is good medicine to take it with my fish-oil - probably due to it's anti-oxidation qualities. So yes, instead of hyper expensive krill oil why not try a dose of regular fish oil with Astaxanthin? I really do wish there was a bit more research on it though.. AH! *pleasantly surprised by the interwebs* - answering that wish myself here:

Combined fish oil and astaxanthin supplementation modulates rat lymphocyte function.
Otton R, Marin DP, Bolin AP, de Cássia Santos Macedo R, Campoio TR, Fineto C, Guerra BA, Leite JR, Barros MP, Mattei R
Eur J Nutr. 2011 Oct 5;

PURPOSE: Higher intakes of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids that are abundant in marine fishes have been long described as a "good nutritional intervention" with increasing clinical benefits to cardiovascular health, inflammation, mental, and neurodegenerative diseases. The present study was designed to investigate the effect of daily fish oil (FO-10 mg EPA/kg body weight (BW) and 7 mg DHA/kg BW) intake by oral gavage associated with the antioxidant astaxanthin (ASTA-1 mg/kg BW) on the redox metabolism and the functional properties of lymphocytes from rat lymph nodes. METHODS: This study was conducted by measurements of lymphocyte proliferation capacity, ROS production [superoxide (O (2) (•-) ) and hydrogen peroxide (H(2)O(2))], nitric oxide (NO(•)) generation, intracellular calcium release, oxidative damage to lipids and proteins, activities of major antioxidant enzymes, GSH/GSSG content, and cytokines release. RESULTS: After 45 days of FO + ASTA supplementation, the proliferation capacity of activated T- and B-lymphocytes was significantly diminished followed by lower levels of O (2) (•-) , H(2)O(2) and NO(•) production, and increased activities of total/SOD, GR and GPx, and calcium release in cytosol. ASTA was able to prevent oxidative modification in cell structures through the suppression of the oxidative stress condition imposed by FO. L: -selectin was increased by FO, and IL-1β was decreased only by ASTA supplementation. CONCLUSION: We can propose that association of ASTA with FO could be a good strategy to prevent oxidative stress induced by polyunsaturated fatty acids and also to potentiate immuno-modulatory effects of FO.

Nice!

[nameless]

Interesting ratty study there. What would the human equivalents be? Meaning, can we just multiply the dose up by weight or does the rat metabolism differ too much for that?

And is that 1mg/kg for astaxanthin? If human dose is equivalent to ratty, wouldn't that be a rather large amount then?

[Googoltarian]

What would the human equivalents be?

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[8bitmore]

@nameless, @Googoltarian - dose-wise I wouldn't go over 4mg because of a) there's an unpublished study out where 4mg was enough to significantly alter physiology in the test group (positively that is, see: http://tinyurl.com/d4ps85d ) and b) Astaxanthin belongs to the carotenoids group; taking too much of one type might lead to washout of other important nutrients (a bit like Alpha Tocopherol can lead to washout of Gamma/Delta/Alpha and Beta variants). c) don't take any kind of carotenoid if smoking (then again if smoking why not deal with that instead taking vitamins, I digress) since it may lead to added risk of lung cancer occurrence. Finally, I personally feel sickly from taking more than 4mg a day.

On the topic of absorption/dose its worth noting that the compound is highly lipid soluble: i.e. the fish oil combo might be good for several reasons...

[nameless]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend high doses of it either. I did a short trial of it a while ago, just to see if it altered my lipid numbers (it didn't). But I just used 4mg/daily.

If I remember right, most servings of salmon = 1mg astaxanthin, with sockeye coming in at 4mg.

What I was wondering above was, if 1mg/kg for rat, would that equate to about 70mg for a 70kg person?
If so, the data in that study may not relate to people so well, unless they really, really megadosed on astaxanthin.

[8bitmore]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend high doses of it either. I did a short trial of it a while ago, just to see if it altered my lipid numbers (it didn't). But I just used 4mg/daily.

If I remember right, most servings of salmon = 1mg astaxanthin, with sockeye coming in at 4mg.

What I was wondering above was, if 1mg/kg for rat, would that equate to about 70mg for a 70kg person?
If so, the data in that study may not relate to people so well, unless they really, really megadosed on astaxanthin.

Good point regarding natural intake via salmon. I can see why researchers are tempted to overload the test animals to get an effect. And yes: makes it really really hard to extrapolate data. Not sure at all as to how different rodent metabolism is to human metabolism. Also seem to remember rat/monkey study that was very positive and followed up by clinical human trial where people were dying left and right (this a a pharma-compound; they tend to have more capacity to cause havoc but still - proves a point as to how different the species are when it comes to breaking down and utilizing different chemicals).

[ironfistx]

What bad effects are associated with astaxanthin?