33 replies to this topic

[Neuronic]

I have been taking Alpha GPC for a little over a month now. I took about 1200mg for the first week, then about 650mg every night. I never noticed anything when I started, but I thought it would be a good idea to keep taking it. About two weeks ago I started "realizing" how much more verbal I was when around people. I was in a better, more optimistic mood for no good reason. At the end of the day I wasn't as overwhelmingly sleepy as normal.
Now I also take Adderall and have been taking it for 10 months now. Nothing else I can think of has changed. It actually reminds me of being on piracetam, except better... much better.
Piracetam no doubt helped me verbally. But I'm finding myself saying what needs to be said instead of being undesirably reserved, keeping quiet because of mind-numbing sleepiness and/or slurring words.
Also it's like social anxiety is suddenly disappearing. I'm not antisocial, but I normally have to force myself to greet others. For the last two weeks I have been casually going up and talking to people I normally avoided.

I suffer from narcolepsy, which is the root of most of these problems. I wasn't hoping for anything more than reduced daytime sleepiness and memory.
Adderall may be overshadowing any short-term memory/concentration benefits, but I have noticed some random memory flashbacks. Again, like piracetam. Although I think piracetam may win in that area.

I wasn't expecting any of these benefits, but is a very welcome improvement.
Has anyone else had similar effects from Alpha GPC?

[diana_2000]

I must admit that Alpha GPC is tricky. It sometimes gives me an obvious sense of concentration not mistakable for placebo, improved verbal skills, a calm and slightly improved reasoning, it even benefits a little bit my executive function after not getting enough sleep. Other times it gives me a weird, dull mood, unwilling to say anything or talking to anyone, sleepiness even if I get a good night sleep. These side effects are not because of choline overload.They are not dose dependent, at least for me, and they occur from time to time even when I use it rarely, on low doses like 300 mg/a day. There are consecutive days when I take 1200 mg/a day and I don't experience side effects and sometimes I almost fall asleep after taking just 300 mg even if I take a break from it for a week or a few days before.

Edited by diana_2000, 23 August 2011 - 04:50 AM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Personally, I think it is way overpriced and in my opinion Citicoline (CDP-Choline) is just as good. It's very good, don't get me wrong, but it's just not worth the price.

[diana_2000]

Personally, I think it is way overpriced and in my opinion Citicoline (CDP-Choline) is just as good. It's very good

Can you describe the way Citicoline affects you? Did you try both?

[llap]

I took about 100mg of alpha GPC twice a day for about a week, and while I took it I felt an urge to exercise and eat more.

I stopped after that week, and I couldn't remember or think for a month after, and I am not sure if I am yet back to my normal self. I knew that I remember stuff, but I couldn't access it, I knew I can figure something out, but I just couldn't figure it out. I felt like these old folks, that say excuse me, my memory or reasoning is not as sharp as it used to be.

I think that my neurons got used to the high level of acetylcholine, or were fried due to that high level, and when I stopped that high level by stopping the alpha GPC they didn't receive enough signal to be activated, and they couldn't adapt, or were fried. I hope that my situation would improve.

Due to my experience, I think that taking alpha GPC can be counterproductive, so be careful. I would avoid taking something that would force me to be dependent on it just for not becoming a senile idiot when I stop. If you would look at the reviews over these products, you would see people who write that their condition deteriorate immediately after stopping to take the supplement. All the research that I saw with choline variants were made with rats, or sick people, which may benefit from higher levels of neural signals, as it may bring their levels to normal levels, but I don't see a reason to believe that a higher than normal neural signals levels correlate with better memory or intelligence, and I didn't see any research that showed that taking this stuff make your memory or intelligence better after you take it for enough time to get used to it, in order to show that the measured effect is sustainable and not just a transient effect.

[Neuronic]

Funny you say it like that. Knowing you know the answer but can't quite access it... I have been that way my whole life. Apparently, that's common among narcoleptics. I don't know if it's due to a broken REM sleep function or what, since REM sleep is when your brain processes memory.
So frustrating to know the answer to something and yet sound like an idiot because you can't think of the name for what you're thinking about. For instance, a fill-in-the-blank test without a word bank would kill me even if it's a subject I know well. I know the answer to the question... but what is the word for it?
As soon as I see the answer I will know it's right, so multiple choice is much better.

I've had to prove I know what I'm doing by doing it. Ironically, most people I work with think I was a grade A student in school and "it all comes easy" for me. They couldn't be more wrong, they're the ones that had it easy.
Anyway, I hope your wrong about becoming worse than before if you stop taking it. But I can't see myself being much worse than I already was.

[llap]

I think, that if alpha GPC help you with the symptoms of narcolepsy, then it is grate. It is probably much healthier than the other medications for that condition. I bet that other people who have narcolepsy would be very interested to read your post, especially if the improvement would remain after prolong use of alpha GPC. If for whatever reason you decide to stop taking alpha GPC, it would be interesting to know if you too would get worse than before ever taking it, or not. Maybe your normal state is a state of having too little acetylcholine, and then you would be just back to normal.

In my previous post I wanted to warn people like myself, that do not have any medical condition, and just want an extra cognitive boost, that there is a chance that they would get disappointed if not hurt from alpha GPC. I wish that I would have read such post before taking it, but all the posts I read were just praise, and mostly old people, that when they wrote, that when they stopped taking it their situation deteriorated I thought that their situation just reverted to the normal state of slight old age forgetfullness, but as I see in my case, I was not old, and I was not forgetful, and I became forgetful, and slightly dumb, hopefully temporarily, due to starting and then stopping alpha GPC.

In my case I took the alpha GPC for a very short time (one week), so on the one hand be warned that even in such a short time, and small dose these effects exist, but on the other hand maybe when taken for longer time there are different results, like it is supposed to promote excretion of HGH, and the alpha GPC is supposed to get incorporated into cells membrane, and create more fluid membranes, and maybe it help the brain maybe not, would be interesting to know if someone has actually made any benchmark of before and after long use. I don't think that in the short time that I took it any of these effects could have been pronounced, and I think that what I experienced was mainly due to alterations of the signal levels and the adaptation to that signal levels.

[Lufega]

I've tried other cholinergics and Alpha-GPC is the only one that doesn't give me shortness of breath. I only take one pill a day though and I do notice how I can focus and concentrate a lot better on topics. Even my mom likes it. I don't think I would ever try more than one cap per day for the dependence issues stated above. At what time have you found that it works better for you ?

[diana_2000]

I took about 100mg of alpha GPC twice a day for about a week, and while I took it I felt an urge to exercise and eat more.
I stopped after that week, and I couldn't remember or think for a month after, and I am not sure if I am yet back to my normal self. I knew that I remember stuff, but I couldn't access it, I knew I can figure something out, but I just couldn't figure it out. I felt like these old folks, that say excuse me, my memory or reasoning is not as sharp as it used to be.

It is an interesting experience. Did you have the same experience with CDP choline? When I take alpha GPC a few days in a row I also feel a cognitive decline after I stop it. I thought my memory just reverts to baseline after being enhanced.

All the research that I saw with choline variants were made with rats, or sick people, which may benefit from higher levels of neural signals. I didn't see any research that showed that taking this stuff make your memory or intelligence better after you take it for enough time to get used to it, in order to show that the measured effect is sustainable and not just a transient effect.

There is no study that prove CDP choline effective for healthy subjects but there are 2 studies that indicate the contrary. A study shows it to be useless for healthy normal people at a dose of 1000 mg/day and effective only for those with inefficient memory. Another study done with animals shows that it doesn't help the young rats living in normal conditions but it helped only those living in impoverished environment. Unlike CDP choline, alpha GPC proved beneficial for healthy young volunteers with no memory problems (page 2-3). There is a study in that document that focuses on GPC's potential to reverse scopolamin induced dysfunctions but moreover, alpha GPC improved cognitive abilities prior to scopolamine administration compared to controls.

Edited by diana_2000, 23 August 2011 - 06:46 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Personally, I think it is way overpriced and in my opinion Citicoline (CDP-Choline) is just as good. It's very good

Can you describe the way Citicoline affects you? Did you try both?

Citicoline basically affected the same way Alpha GPC did, but was cheaper. I did try both; started with Citicoline and then thought "what the hell, everyone praises Alpha-GPC" so I ordered some. No difference that I could tell.

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 23 August 2011 - 06:28 PM.

[Nootr]

Isn't Lecithin a substitute for Alpha GPC? It's the cheapest choline source!

[diana_2000]

Can you describe the way Citicoline affects you?

Citicoline basically affected the same way Alpha GPC did.

Your information is welcome, yet not the aswer to my question. You said there is no difference between them. I would like you to share your experience with it like I did above because it seems that each person reacts in an unique way.

[llap]

It is an interesting experience. Did you have the same experience with CDP choline? When I take alpha GPC a few days in a row I also feel a cognitive decline after I stop it. I thought my memory just reverts to baseline after being enhanced.

I didn't use CDP Choline, just alpha GPC. I got much much worse than my baseline cognitive and memory abilities after I stopped. I didn't experience any extraordinary benefit while taking it. At the time, I just started to practice Dual N-Back and got to doing Dual 2-Back with around 70% success. I suspect that this is quite ordinary.

There is no study that prove CDP choline effective for healthy subjects but there are 2 studies that indicate the contrary. A study shows it to be useless for healthy normal people at a dose of 1000 mg/day and effective only for those with inefficient memory.

Another study done with animals shows that it doesn't help the young rats living in normal conditions but it helped only those living in impoverished environment. Unlike CDP choline, alpha GPC proved beneficial for healthy young volunteers with no memory problems (page 2-3). There is a study in that document that focuses on GPC's potential to reverse scopolamin induced dysfunctions but moreover, alpha GPC improved cognitive abilities prior to scopolamine administration compared to controls.

I have tried to find the article:

4. Canal N, et al. Comparison of the effects of pretreatment with choline
alfoscerate, idebenone, aniracetam and placebo on scopolamine-induced
amnesia. Le Basi Raz Ter 1993;23:102

referenced in that alpha GPC study, that claim improvement over baseline, but I didn't find it, so I don't know what exactly happened there, and if the referencing article is acurate.

Isn't Lecithin a substitute for Alpha GPC? It's the cheapest choline source!

Lecithin is not the cheapest choline source, as it have only 13% choline, vs around 40% for alpha GPC and CDP choline. If you take that under account then the price is about the same per 1mg choline. Additionally, Lecithin has omega 6 which promote blood clots, and inflammation.

[diana_2000]

I have tried to find the article 4. Comparison of the effects of pretreatment with choline alfoscerate, idebenone, aniracetam and placebo on scopolamine-induced amnesia referenced in that alpha GPC study, referenced in that alpha GPC study, that claim improvement over baseline but I didn't find it.

See this article:

The volunteers were men and women aged 19-38 years. The procedure was to start the subjects on either an inactive placebo or on GPC, then to treat them with scopolamine or a placebo, both given by intramuscular injection. In the first double-blind trial,3 the 32 subjects were randomly allocated to 4 different groups. They were then preloaded with either placebo or with GPC by mouth (1200 mg per day), for 10 days. On the eleventh day they were injected with either scopolamine bromidrate or placebo. They were tested immediately before being injected (baseline) then again at 0.5 hrs, 1, 2, 3 and 6 hrs after injection. […]
On the attention test, GPC pretreatment blocked the scopolamine effect for at least the first 3 hours. On the mnemonic word recall test, GPC pretreatment significantly protected against scopolamine all the way through the 6-hour trial. Further, GPC actually improved the baseline word recall performance in these healthy young subjects.³

Reference: 3.Effect of l-alpha-glyceryl-phosphorylcholine on amnesia caused by scopolamine.

I tried to quote it but it doesn't display the last sentence so I pasted it like this.

Edited by diana_2000, 24 August 2011 - 03:32 PM.

[llap]

From what I can understand, from this short abstract of an article, is that they took 32 people, divided them into 4 groups of 9 people, and gave
group (1) placebo-placebo,
group (2) placebo-scopolamine,
group (3) GPC-placebo,
group (4) GPC-scopolamine.

where the first GPC or placebo was administered for 10 days, after which they tested the baseline word recall, and they found that groups (3) and (4) performed better than groups (1) and (2).

Criticism:
(a) It is a small study, only 18 people (of group 1,2) vs other 18 people (of groups 3,4).
(b) The groups might have had different baseline abilities without relation to anything else. The study didn't compare the performance of a person to his own performance prior to consumption of GPC, as far as I can understand from that short abstract.
© The 10 day period might be too short for the brain to fully adapt to GPC, so even if there is a beneficial effect, this doesn't prove that it will last.
(d) From this short abstract I don't understand how much better were group 3,4, and thus I can't weigh the worth of the alleged improvement.
(e) They didn't check what happen to the memory after stopping GPC.

Edited by llap, 25 August 2011 - 09:28 AM.

[lourdaud]

Hm, may I ask what your opinion on Lecithin is? If any of you tried it, did you find that it matches up to Alpha GPC or CDP Choline (whichever one you prefer ?

[diana_2000]

Hm, may I ask what your opinion on Lecithin is? If any of you tried it, did you find that it matches up to Alpha GPC or CDP Choline (whichever one you prefer ?

I tried lecithin and I feel that it really does something but it is short acting and the effects are not consistent with daily usage. When it is stripped of its fatty acids in the intestine alpha GPC results. Only a part of phosphatidylcholine that it contains yields alpha gpc, the rest is converted in some inactive compound. Given that the content of phosphatidylcholine in lecithin is 10-15% and only a part of phosphatidylcholine is converted to apha gpc, it is better to supplement with alpha GPC. CDP choline is absorbed as choline and uridine, they circulate through the body and a part of choline that reach the brain, in the presence of uridine contributes to the synthesis of membrain of neurons. There are few resons it may not be a good way to raise acethylcholine in the brain:
1. It affects rather the structure of brain cells and their membrane content than acethylcholine levels. This is why it proved beneficial for people with impaired mental function like stroke, head trauma, alzheimer and not so useful for healthy people.
2. It is also known that choline doesn't pass easily the blood brain barrier, this is the primary reason that choline bitartrate is not efficient. Since CDP choline is absorbed as uridine and choline individually, the choline part may not reach the brain better.
3. Here is a study that shows CDP choline does not improve cognitive function of normal subjects at a dose of 1000 mg/day and here is a study done with animals that shows it does nothing for rats living in normal conditions.
Therefore I incline to alpha GPC.

[nupi]

I have an almost full bottle of NOW Alpha GPC here (and another one with Citicoline, I think its Jarrow), but reading about the below baseline drops makes me wary of taking it, do we have anymore anecdotal evidence of that?

[nito]

I have an almost full bottle of NOW Alpha GPC here (and another one with Citicoline, I think its Jarrow), but reading about the below baseline drops makes me wary of taking it, do we have anymore anecdotal evidence of that?

wait is ALPHA GPC bad??

[zm3thod]

I have an almost full bottle of NOW Alpha GPC here (and another one with Citicoline, I think its Jarrow), but reading about the below baseline drops makes me wary of taking it, do we have anymore anecdotal evidence of that?

wait is ALPHA GPC bad??

One person has anecdotal experience that it may be, supported by conjecture

I've never had any problems with it, nor have I read any serious studies cautioning of it. They may be out there. From my readings most people on the forums have either subtle or unnoticeable affects from it, but nootropics seem inconsistent with many people

[nupi]

Going through my cabinet, I found I actually have two full bottles of Alpha GPC (plus another one with Citicholine) on the shelf. Going through this thread again,

Piracetam no doubt helped me verbally. But I'm finding myself saying what needs to be said instead of being undesirably reserved, keeping quiet because of mind-numbing sleepiness and/or slurring words.
Also it's like social anxiety is suddenly disappearing. I'm not antisocial, but I normally have to force myself to greet others. For the last two weeks I have been casually going up and talking to people I normally avoided.

made me decide to try with 600mg in the morning for a while. If it can in fact do this without any significant side effects, the price would be ridiculously low to me.

Edited by nupi, 31 August 2011 - 12:50 AM.

[diana_2000]

made me decide to try with 600mg in the morning for a while. If it can in fact do this without any significant side effects, the price would be ridiculously low to me.

We will be glad if you will report it back to us. It seems that there is a lack of subjective experience here as if the ones who benefit from nootropics don't want to share their secret with others. Everybody ask for information and say what they are going to try but very few people report it back.

Edited by diana_2000, 31 August 2011 - 04:38 AM.

[diana_2000]

I have an almost full bottle of NOW Alpha GPC here (and another one with Citicoline, I think its Jarrow), but reading about the below baseline drops makes me wary of taking it, do we have anymore anecdotal evidence of that?

This week I took Alpha GPC 4 days in a row and today I stopped. I didn't experience side effects, it seems they are less likely to occur when I take it multiple times. After I stopped I don't notice a cognitive drop below baseline. I just feel normal.

[Ukko]

Oh boy, made a mistake. Bought a pre-training supplement called Hemavol. Had some. Felt so shit, so instantly depressed that I had to check its ingredients. Yes, the usual suspect: alpha GPC. Felt so bad it was almost amusing, to my wife. Here's another story from a poor bloke who overdosed alpha GPC: http://forum.bulletp...-hell-and-back/

[Godof Smallthings]

Alpha GPC makes me feel like crap as well - muscle/neck tension, fatigue, depressive thoughts. It's like poison to my neurochemistry.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 22 September 2013 - 03:32 AM.

[Arjuna]

This thread inspired me to buy and try alpha gpc.  I took 300mg with alcar for a few weeks, and I got the same result as OP; extroversion and sharper thoughts and memories.

 

It raises dopamine around the brain and activates parasympathetic nervous system.  I'm shocked that I react so well to it because CDP choline was instant depression for me. 

[Zbdecker]

Personally, I think it is way overpriced and in my opinion Citicoline (CDP-Choline) is just as good. It's very good, don't get me wrong, but it's just not worth the price.

 

Just a thought Dirk...

 

If you buy the powders and put them in the capsules yourself...

 

Alpha GPC is actually cheaper strangely in my experience. CDP choline on healthsupplementwholesalers.com goes for $149.99 for 250 grams while Alpha GPC goes for $102.15.

 

It's really weird when I hear people complain about that...so yeah enough said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally take both Alpha GPC and CDP choline as according to most studies you should only take 1200 mg of alpha-GPC. However the total choline upper tolerable limit 3.5 grams...so I take Alpha GPC 1200 currently and 1500 of CDP-choline...plus I get about 300-400 on a vegetarian diet so yeah.

 

My experience is that I take them and my ADHD symptoms improve. I have actually relatively become more introverted recently however I'm not sure I relate that to it. In particular I would say I am very attentive compared to off them. However I have to admit I'm not taking choline on its own. I take a omega-3 concentrated fish oil which goes well with it and also some natural medicines which are indirectly known as "potency boosters." In other words they effect things such as metabolism and therefore cause the other nutrients and medicines in your body to increase in effectiveness. 

 

-Zach

[Healthy Almonds]

 

Personally, I think it is way overpriced and in my opinion Citicoline (CDP-Choline) is just as good. It's very good, don't get me wrong, but it's just not worth the price.

 

Just a thought Dirk...

 

If you buy the powders and put them in the capsules yourself...

 

Alpha GPC is actually cheaper strangely in my experience. CDP choline on healthsupplementwholesalers. com goes for $149.99 for 250 grams while Alpha GPC goes for $102.15.

 

It's really weird when I hear people complain about that...so yeah enough said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally take both Alpha GPC and CDP choline as according to most studies you should only take 1200 mg of alpha-GPC. However the total choline upper tolerable limit 3.5 grams...so I take Alpha GPC 1200 currently and 1500 of CDP-choline... plus I get about 300-400 on a vegetarian diet so yeah.

 

My experience is that I take them and my ADHD symptoms improve. I have actually relatively become more introverted recently however I'm not sure I relate that to it. In particular I would say I am very attentive compared to off them. However I have to admit I'm not taking choline on its own. I take a omega-3 concentrated fish oil which goes well with it and also some natural medicines which are indirectly known as "potency boosters." In other words they effect things such as metabolism and therefore cause the other nutrients and medicines in your body to increase in effectiveness. 

 

-Zach

 

Keep in mind that the Alpha-GPC from HSW is 50% Alpha-GPC & 50% dicalcium phosphate.

[kenth619]

I took about 100mg of alpha GPC twice a day for about a week, and while I took it I felt an urge to exercise and eat more.

I stopped after that week, and I couldn't remember or think for a month after, and I am not sure if I am yet back to my normal self. I knew that I remember stuff, but I couldn't access it, I knew I can figure something out, but I just couldn't figure it out. I felt like these old folks, that say excuse me, my memory or reasoning is not as sharp as it used to be.

I think that my neurons got used to the high level of acetylcholine, or were fried due to that high level, and when I stopped that high level by stopping the alpha GPC they didn't receive enough signal to be activated, and they couldn't adapt, or were fried. I hope that my situation would improve.

Due to my experience, I think that taking alpha GPC can be counterproductive, so be careful. I would avoid taking something that would force me to be dependent on it just for not becoming a senile idiot when I stop. If you would look at the reviews over these products, you would see people who write that their condition deteriorate immediately after stopping to take the supplement. All the research that I saw with choline variants were made with rats, or sick people, which may benefit from higher levels of neural signals, as it may bring their levels to normal levels, but I don't see a reason to believe that a higher than normal neural signals levels correlate with better memory or intelligence, and I didn't see any research that showed that taking this stuff make your memory or intelligence better after you take it for enough time to get used to it, in order to show that the measured effect is sustainable and not just a transient effect.

 

The exact same thing as llap described has happened to me. While using Alpha GPC for about a week (300mg x 2 daily), I also had increased appetite and wanted to exercise.

 

I am currently experienced brain fog / difficulty in focusing on things as I stopped using it a few days ago. My sleep seems affected as well.

 

llap were you able to return to normal baseline afterwards or is this going to be permanent?

[jroseland]

Just received 50 grams of pharmaceutical grade Alpha GPC I'm excited about mixing it with Racetams...