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Prefrontal Brain Repair


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#31 doug123

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 09:17 PM

~Nootropikamil

Ive been reading alot of modafanil and have been seriously considering it. There are 4 things im worried about that maybe you could clear up for me.
1. Doesnt the lowering of GABA and increasing of NMDA receptors bring haven to neurotoxicity?
2. If one has anxiety what would be the most synergetic thing to take with modafanil? Glycine? Taurine? Magnesium? all? and would this render the drug useless?
3. Does modafanil cuase permanent changes in the brain (for the better) that will continue after disintinuation? More like LTP not repairative functions.
4. would it be smart for someone who has abused drugs, maybe furthering deteriation due to overexitacion?

Anyone can answer this; i just know adam is tha masta on mada


I am not the masta on the mada. I studied it a little bit, and I can try to share with you what I do know....

1. I have absolutely no idea.
2. That would depend on your neurochemistry.
3. I am not sure.
4. What drugs, for how long, etc...

After speaking with you on the phone, I am convinced you need to see a real doctor and be checked for ADD, Depression, OCD, etc. The right psychiatrist can help you much better than some non qualified dude like me. :)

#32 doug123

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:23 AM

Dude, kottke: I hope you don't understand my comments the wrong way. It's just that you seem to have tried many different ways to get what you want, and are beginning to see diminishing returns...you've tried like a hundred different compounds, in different mixtures too.

Although I differ with many of modern medicine's conservatism in some respects, I have a pretty good respect for much of modern psychiatry. It's not perfect, but you can get what you seem to be looking for by asking someone who is well educated and experienced in treating various mood, affective, and addictive type disorders. It could be an SSRI, SNRI, etc. or none of these that help you. But you seem to find enjoyment in learning about what different compounds can do...you should start out working with a professional; after that fails, ask us for help. Tell your psychiatrist of all the compounds you have tried and I bet you can eliminate much of his or her guesswork. Tell him or her you responded well to Deprenyl...etc.

You can ask dudes who have been around for a while who have an appreciation for psychiatry: try Dopamine, for example. He'll probably tell you (if he were to read some of your posts) as well that it's probably best to go to a psychiatrist first before trying alternative methods to treat anxiety, depression, motivation, etc issues.

And also: don't go to your "family" (primary care) doctor for psychiatric needs. Try to find a psychiatrist. Peace.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Psychiatrist

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#33

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:51 PM

To find out about a nuerotransmitter deficiency you can have a doctor take some urine and test it to see how your nuerotransmiter levels are. This is something you can have a doctor do for you.

Usually in orthomoelcular the ADD type is known to have high histamine levels. You only mention brothers. High histamine levels usaully run in all male families. You could have a blood test by a doctor to see what your histamine levels are at.

But histamine levels play a role in adrenaline and energy levels.


My body tried in vain to reduce this high level of histamine to a normal level, by releasing abnormally large quantities (spikes) of adrenaline into my blood stream. This created nervous energy and sometimes even panic attacks if the spikes were large enough. The body normally has a certain amount of adrenaline that increases and decreases slightly to balance your body's histamine level. In its attempt to reduce my histamine level, my body would essentially use up all my adrenaline (as shown by my blood test). This would leave me feeling anywhere from moderately tired to frighteningly exhausted. Its probably difficult to imagine being so drained of energy that it would actually scare you, but it happened to me frequently.

source: http://www.goldbaum...._Histamine.html

Drinking alcohol helps to lower histamine levels. High histamine types are likely to have problems with addiction. SAM-e does usually help high hstamine types. SAM-e contains methionine which orthomolecular recommends for high histamine types.

That link explains how histamine can effect your energy levels, causing panic attacks or anxiety problems, and then low energy. I am not trying to diagnose you, but trying to show you that you can find some other possible explanation. Orthomolecular treats mental health problems like depression, ADD, anxiety, bi-polar, etc, by using mostly megadose nutritional supplements.

#34 tham

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:54 AM

Selegiline has dopamine agonist, anxiolytic and
antidepressant properties, and has been used to
treat ADD too.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

PS, phosphatidylserine, may help with your brain damage
and reduce anxiety levels with your same time :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


As Xanadu mentioned above, rhodiola might well help you.

This appears to be a good formula. Note that their St John's
Wort extract is standardized for hyperforin, not hypericin
like most other brands.

http://amoryn.com

You could combine it with this, based on L-theanine, by
the same company :

http://seredyn.com


Adapton, also recommened by LEF, may also help anxiety :

http://www.naturalhe...hs/adapton.html


Another one is Seroctin :

http://www.betterhea...es/seroctin.htm


But it may well be that you have high histamine levels too,
as Orthomolecular suggested, which would mean that you
are a histadelic, a term which most conventional doctors
would not even have heard of or understand.

http://www.diagnose-...nd/C447056.html

Common traits of histadelics are slim, lanky fingers
(Abraham Lincoln was one), constant salivating at one corner
of the mouth (Marilyn Monroe), high sex drive with long
intense orgasms, allergies, chronic anxiety, depression,
obsessive-compulsive disorders and suicidal tendencies.

Marilyn Monroe apparently was never diagnosed as one
(not that the medical profession knew that such a thing as
histadelia existed, as mentioned above). Her doctor/psychiatrist
just kept dishing out tranquilizers to her, which never did
help. She was chronically highly strung, emotional and suicidal.


http://www.campaignf...nandsuicide.htm

Supplements which help are methionine, SAMe, calcium,
manganese, magnesium, B6 and zinc. Histadelics are supposed
to avoid folic acid and B12. A higher carbohydrate, moderate
fat and lower protein diet is recommended for histadelics
by Patrick Holford.

A good book is his book, "Optimum Nutrition for the MInd".
The first time I heard of histadelia was when I read this book
in the local library recently.

But I think it might be better to find an orthomolecular or nutrition-based doctor to diagnose and treat you, rather than
trying different supplements and drugs at random.
Try contacting :

http://www.orthomed.org/


The foremost authority and treatment center in the USA
for histadelia is Carl Pfeiffer's center, however.

http://www.hriptc.org/


Patrick Holford in the UK follows Pfeiffer's guidelines :

http://www.patrickholford.com/

Edited by tham, 29 June 2006 - 06:36 AM.


#35 beej

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:53 PM

ADHD is on the autism spectrum hence the cross over of symptoms from Asperger's.

Who says you have brain damage? It is not nesseserally a given just because u abused stims, the brain is capeable of amazing repair.

You may also like to consider that some people ADHD is comorbid with bipolar 2 up to 80% of the time. I am a psych nurse of many years experience and reserched my "condition" obsessively for a long time and never picked it.

The give away is in my opinion

(1) Good initial response to ssri's but it never lasts/makes u worse

(2) Racing thoughts, I would notice it particually when I came hope from a night shift so so tired but my brain was spinning over at a million miles an hour repeating a line of song, something someone said, over and over and over, relentlessly and I would have to take 10mg valium to knock myself out for a few hours.

I am on 200mg/day lamictal and have found it awesome. No side effects at all, NONE! I have never had a psych drug like it it is nothing short of awesome and I feel heaps better. I wonder, what are u taking now?

#36

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 05:25 PM

You could be doing more with nutrition like balancing your histamine levels. High histamine levels would effect your dopamine levels.

You doctor can test your histamine levels when he takes a blood sample. You can try testing your histamine levels yourself. Taking nicotinic acid (the flush producing niacin) is the way to test your histamine levels. If it takes more than 250 mg. of niacin to cause the flush then your histamine levels are low. But if you get a flush with as low a dose as 50 mg. then you histamine levels are high.

Balancing your histamine is possible with the right nutrition. Histamine is a ubiquitous chemical that plays many roles in your body. Histamine also is a good way to understand how your body methylates. High histamine types under-methylate while low histmaine types over-methylate. If methylation does not work properly in your body this can and will effect your DNA methylation. Your DNA methylation is how your gene expression gets turned on (or off). Histamine is am important chemical which can be balanced with the right nutritional supplements. Histamine is a nuerotransmitter in your brain.

Here is some info on nuerotransmitters.

http://www.crossroad...rotransmit.html

It is possible to have you urine tested for indications of neurotransmitter imbalances.

https://neurorelief....e.php?issue=349

#37 kottke

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 04:51 PM

Hey guys thanks for the response. Ive been all over Germany for the past month so ive been slow to respond. Im in Koln (prunounced Cologne) right now in the bands managers flatt and finnaly have continious, uninteruppted internet access. [sfty]

But back to the statements i have looked very deep into histadelia and am convinced that that plays a large part in my symptoms. However; I continue to stress the brain damage, because i have even recently had a follow up MRI, before i left to Deutchland,from the accident i incured and there is a lesion on the middle left prefrontal cortex...which is not cool...at all. They are finding more and more evedince that the left prefrontal cortex has ALOT to do with feelings of well being, concentration, and stress response. So damage to that, doing drugs, having ADD (which is low activity of the frontal lobes) and having hish histamine are the sum of my problems

This trip though has completely changed my thought process. I know now that know matter whats going on, im still me, and i have to live with that no matter what i did in the past. I know longer worry about what supplements to try next and let supplements rule my life. That being said, i still fully believe that supplements are going to stay a large part of my life, and if they werent there ..well whatever you just live life WORRYING DESTROYS YOU. I dont mean to go off on a tangant but anyone giving me advice further will know that these are things i have dealt with and im now (but of course not completey) dealing with physical ailments, and not personal ones...if you get my drift.

So this my new stack i plan to use when i get back and if there are any condradictions please let me know

Brain Restoration

1.Tianeptine
2.GPC Choline
3.Fish Oil
4. Vinpocetine
5. R Lipoic Acid
6. Phsphotydal Serine

Chemical Anxiety

1.Magnesium Taurate
2.B-Complex (possibly without folic acid)
I think tianeptine will take care of the rest if not all of it

Stomach Intestinal Health

1.Probiotic
2.Licorice
3.Lactase enyme

Liver
1.NAC or Milk Thistle
2.Currcumin-Tumeric

Histamine Lowering

1.Methionine
2.Vitamin C
3. A PLANT BASED DIET
4.Calcium Magnesium

#38 ikaros

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:38 AM

Good luck. I'm on tianeptine also and so far positive results on attentiveness which is better than it was before the drug, though the calm energizing effect which I was after suddenly disappeared after 2. week.
Mainly you should stay off alcohol for some time as it interferes with most of the things you take. I hope I could do it myself lol.

#39 kottke

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Posted 04 August 2006 - 07:23 PM

Yea, man alcohol is just hard to stop and..well..thats all i can say about that. Its going to be especially hard when i get back to the states because im in germany right now and i have to say ive been putting back beer like its my job (not good for the damaged brain).But, i made a deal with some fo the band that i wouldnt drink till the end of the tour and its been 5 days so far and its not needed. I think im going to go ahead and stop for good and drink moderatley after i go through some supplement trials or just never at all.

Thats really cool you started tianeptine man and im glad its working alright for ya. I hope it does the same for me.

Have you felt any ill side effects from it yet? Would you say its definantly milder both in effect and side effects compared to SSRIs?

#40 ikaros

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 10:13 AM

No serious side-effects. I did notice that my jaw was thight in the first 5 days, almost like I was having a cramp. Actually I don't know if it was from the med, but I couldn't explained it any other way also, so I assumed it was tianeptine. But everything else has been great. Anyway in addition the med is supposed to protect against alcohol related brain damage, so the booze can't actually do much harm if you're on it, that doesn't sill mean you should go out and drink a liter of vodka.

#41 kottke

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:59 PM

I have been on tianeptine, gpc choline, and vinpocetine for a couple of weeks now and have had amazing results in stimulating the damaged areas of my brain. My concentration is up and my psychosis and mind wandering down and i can literally feel it in the left frontal lobe of my brain.

However i beleive i have developed tardive dyskenesia over prolonged understimulation of my DA receptors and i will tell you why. When i begin to hyperconcentrate on one subject such as meditating, conversations, etc i begin to express things quicker, more fluid, less anxiolike response to multiple stimuli, a "gut" like response is usually the response and has less need for correction, blah and blah. Theres a catch though; when i do these things one or more of following happens:my shoulders move in a clockwork motion, facial twitches,i begin to move back in forth, i get a tensness all though my body, i will cross my arms or move them around, shake my head side to side slowly, my legs may start a marching in place stance, among other things. Suprisingly this is not getting to me too bad because my concentration is there and i feel more like "myself" but I also havent experenienced the social ramafications yet.

So anyways tardive dyskenenesia is beileved to be an increase in the D2 receptors of the striated region of the brain which controls muscels and movement as a result of prolonged understimulation of the DA receptors.

"This "up-regulation" of D2 receptors may cause spontaneous and random muscle contractions or movements throughout the body, but particularly in the peri-oral and facial muscles."

http://www.nami.org/..._Dyskinesia.htm

The usual suggestion is to stop antipsychotics and use a dopamine agonist

So finally my questions are

1. If one were to take an added dopamine agonist what would one take? (Modafinil's in my mind for some reason)

2. Even though a dopamine agonist is recomended would it not show affinity for the extra D2 receptors and excacperate the problem maybe even causing LTP?

3. Are there any other supplements other then the ones im taking (tianptine, gpc choline,vinpocetine, a big does of excersise) that could help this particular situation.

Thanks

#42 ikaros

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:27 AM

I have been on tianeptine, gpc choline, and vinpocetine for a couple of weeks now and have had amazing results in stimulating the damaged areas of my brain. My concentration is up and my psychosis and mind wandering down and i can literally feel it in the left frontal lobe of my brain.


What do you exactly mean by psychosis here, as just feeling bit "crazy" or frank positive symptoms (sensory abnormalities)? Though I doubt you're describing psychosis, because instead writing about your concerns, you'd be writing things like "I'm the emperor of planet AlphaZ or etc" or just writing some plain senseless mumbo jumbo here. Your words are coherent though. However it means a lot what you should be taking and what you shouldn't be taking. In frank psychosis I think tianeptine is a bad idea as it has a mild ritalin-kind of effect in the brain, though many times weaker, and dopamine/norepinephrine agonists make any kind of psychotic state worse. Though it also depends what's causing your problems, as in brain-damaged cases tianeptine could still be a help.

However i beleive i have developed tardive dyskenesia over prolonged understimulation of my DA receptors and i will tell you why. When i begin to hyperconcentrate on one subject such as meditating, conversations, etc i begin to express things quicker, more fluid, less anxiolike response to multiple stimuli, a "gut" like response is usually the response and has less need for correction, blah and blah. Theres a catch though; when i do these things one or more of following happens:my shoulders move in a clockwork motion, facial twitches,i begin to move back in forth, i get a tensness all though my body, i will cross my arms or move them around, shake my head side to side slowly, my legs may start a marching in place stance, among other things. Suprisingly this is not getting to me too bad because my concentration is there and i feel more like "myself" but I also havent experenienced the social ramafications yet.


You should really check with your doctor about this. Personally I don't think this has much to do with TD. Sounds rather like somekind of wierd tension buildup (/hyperactivity) which results in your described symptoms. Your choline supplement might also be aggravating nervous twitches, I remember when I took piracetam+choline I started to overconcentrate and startle to every smallest noise and my shoulders twitched also a lot when in stressful situations. This isn't fun at all when your body starts to do things like that.

Excerising is never a bad idea. Also you should be considering something to calm you down, a benzodiazepine or some natural antianxiety/antiseizure remedy. What's wierd is that usually benzos are considered to impair concentration, but for example in my case if I take a benzo before bed, then the next day my mind is very calm and I can swiftly without tension concentrate and get my things done easier.

Anyway overall it's sounds your pushing in too much stimulative substances. Are you seeing a professional doc about this? Much wiser than to self-diagnose based on crude descriptions of conditions. Take care.

#43 kottke

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 12:18 AM

Yea your right ikaros i have thought that i may be overdoing in on the stimulants. The flailing of the numerous body parts has happend in the past when im in a deep sense of concentration i just havent mentioned it. The symptoms increase when i take choline, tianeptine or other stimulant like supplements. Im thinking this is do to the "agonist" like substances im taking; "touching" the damaged areas of my brain and causing these sparatic movements while increasing focus and mood.

The cause of this is either do to the D2 receptor dyskeneshia theory, some other unthought theory, or just the fact that its touching lesioned areas of my brain... Because the damage was done to the front of my brain which is utilized mainly by dopamine. Being depressed for so long could indicate a lower arousal of the left prefrontal cortex. This could be cuased by being born with ADD (which i was diagnosed with), drug use- lowering the sythesis of DA and destroying DA receptors and neurons, and damage to the area. When neurons are not used in your brain they begin to die and when there is already damage there i think it is harder to arouse that area of the brain meaning a continual dieing or weakening of the neurons. When they suddenly become agonized multiple symptoms could occur...

Im not on insurance, but if i was i would definantly be seeing a neurologist about this. Im not so im taking what i believe is safe measures. To make it even safer i have cut off the vinpo usage because it of possible internal brain bleeding, over vasodilation, and its stimulant effects on the locus coeruleus which have been increasing my anxiety symptoms. To date i havent found any interaction or problem with supplementing with GPC choline. Someone let me know if there is one.

Ikaros, would you think it safe to supplement with low dose l-tryptophan or melatonin before bed with tianeptine?

#44 ikaros

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 12:23 PM

I think it's safe, especially if you're having sleep problems. Those should be taken before bedtime, because both can cause drowsiness as you don't want to impair your concentration.

#45 accesscoach

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:18 PM

hi all--was searching on a brain issue and came upon this thread--for what it's worth at this late date, here's my two cents!

Kottke, you have been on a long wild brain ride starting with probably genetic wiring issues, continuing through an injury, and complicated by drug use. It must be incredibly frustrating trying to figure out how to manage the symptoms you're having without subjecting your brain to any additional damage.

Given the complexity of your situation, I think you're an ideal candidate for a SPECT scan--a test that could cut through a TON of the guesswork about what's going on in your brain. You can check out information about this at www.amenclinics.com. Even if you don't want the scan, there are a couple of online tests there--most particularly the Brain Systems Subtests--that could help.

Like ikaros, I would strongly encourage you to find a doctor/practitioner to be your partner in this. I know it's really hard to find someone who really "gets it," and that it can be expensive if you don't have insurance. I also think it could get you where you want to be much faster, and that could pay off for you financially as well as health-wise. I don't know where you are but Dan Amen has clinics on the west coast and in the DC area, and there is a doc who does SPECT scans, Peter Mueller, in New Jersey. He's a great old geezer whose work is giving life back to people who've suffered 30 years of PTSD, addiction, or other issues.

I think someday it will be considered malpractice to start throwing meds at someone without having any physical measures of their brain activity. I like Dan Amen's work, and so do a number of psychiatrists I know. The main ADHD gurus in my area, Ned Hallowell & John Ratey, are looking into adding SPECT to the list of services they offer as well.

You are obviously very intelligent and you see the dangers in not knowing how to help your brain work well. That puts you miles ahead of many people. You've learned a lot through what you've already done. Keep at it, with a great practitioner to help if you possibly can. Good luck.

#46 kottke

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 11:10 PM

Wow, who drops little inspirations like that? Well sir you obviously arent an active member (I'm one to talk), but thank you very much for the kind words. I have looked into amen clinics for testing and for a 4 day evaluation it is $3,250 and insurance will not cover it so thats a little out of the question.

I have recently gotten back on insurance and have seen a doctor who has put me on 25mgs seroquel for sleep. I have to say this stuff is really amazing for deep restorative sleep. I wake up well rested and am doing alot better with anxiety because of it. I was reluctant to take it at first, but seeing as its the weakest of all antipsychotics and im taking the lowest available dose, i thought id give it a try. Im certainly not trying to downregulate my receptors. Im also taking pretty high dose (900mgs) of Na-Rala a day so that MIGHT help with the known extrapryimidal side effects that come with antipsychotics after long-term use (seroquel being the least frequent).

My stack actually goes like this in a nutshell:

Daily
100mgs Modafinil
270mgs Pronogenol - 2
900mgs Na-RALA
6grams Vitamin C
6grams Fish Oil
LEF B Complex 2-3 daily
No Agreed upon Multi

I know its a little weak but its HARD to figure out a regimen with my conditions. I will say I'm a little concerned with the Modafinil and the Seroquel together possibly increasing the risk of EPS. It would suck to wake up with TD! These risks are very possible in the long-term but the short term they're turning out pretty good [thumb]. Its kind of the weighing scale thing.

Anyone have any suggestions on this stack?

PS-I want to let everyone know that im not looking for any kind of sympathy or encouragement in these posts, merely suggestions. At first when i started this thread i was still very young in neuroscience/pharmacology/supplementation/blah blah blah and was suffering from severe mental neurosis. I am AALLOOTT better now and have my head a little straighter, and understand that some of my previous posts were out of desperation and emotional instability [wis] . So ..yea..thats what im spittin

#47 distinct

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 05:14 AM

I had tardive dyskinesia while on various antipsychotics, notably geodon & risperdal, and it ranged from uncontrollable hand shaking (not tremors, but shaking enough to spill a glass of water) to other, more annoying involuntary movements. It doesn't sound like what you were experiencing was truly TD, but I'm not a doctor and you're not standing right in front of me. If it were, perhaps you could talk to your doctor about anti-Parkinson's drugs (cogentin, in particular). It helps prevent permanent damage and doesn't just 'mask' the symptoms. I'm not too sure about how well this whole scenario fits in with life extension though... :)

#48 kottke

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 07:21 AM

I dont think it's TD either distinct. It's now right hemidystonia with added parkinsonism effects such as tremor. It took me awhile to find this out but i finally did just a few days ago and clearly today. It is late and im not going to go into detail now, but this definantly what i have and i know the causel.... It's become very clear to me that ive been taking alot of cholinergic type substances and this has been worsening the problem symptom wise, and maybe even progressing the uhh "disease"-? <----- this is however not the direct cause and i will get into that some other time. Im going to have to restructure my whole regimen around this new foundness and think i have a pretty good rough draft of some SAFE effective supplements.

I'm really sorry to here you had TD distinct. Have you recoverd from the symptoms? That cogentin looks interesting by the way

#49 outsider

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 07:23 AM

Green tea could be interesting since it improve dopamine regulation and is really great for the mind in general. Be sure to take enough though. They say it could be used for parkinson (dopamine problem) ans alzheimer desease.

#50 vitaminboss

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:58 PM

50mg Pyridoxamine (Jarrow PyridoxALL) in AM (best coenzyme of B6 for serotonin and GABA biosynthesis)

100mg Vitamin B5 in the AM

Phosphatidylserine 100mg every 5 hours (potent anti-anxiety)

Magnesium Potassium Aspartate with Taurine (NOW) - 1 in the AM and 1 cap before bed

4.5 grams of Ascorbic Acid powder in glass of water in the AM (great for Norepinephrine and serotonin synthesis)

S-AME 200mg AM - 1 tablet (this will help repair all the polyamine circuits in your brain)

for nutrition and energy and extra support, take a Royal Jelly and Bee Pollen supplement. The mushroom that enhances nerve growth would be Lion's Main.


If you notice, most of the above also enhance the function of the adrenal glands which are simply distal extensions of the brain..

Stay away from herbal "Adaptogens". All they do is overstimulate and exhaust your hypothalamus and pituitary..

Skip Piracetam it worses anxiety due to Glutaminergic over stimulation.

Be in bed by 10:30PM at the LATEST. This will promote growth hormone secretion, brain repair, healing and protein synthesis.

#51 herman1

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 06:40 PM

Can anyone tell me the best way to increase/repair dopamine receptors, especially in the prefrontal cortex? I know this is kinda odd question, but ill be honest i had a concussion when i was 17-18 in my prefrontal regeion of my brain.I'm 21 now. I also was diagnosed with ADD has a kid, and im talking the real 'ADD". I see it in myself and my bros, we just dont really utilize our dopamine as effectivley as possible. Anyways, I havent been exactly the same since i hit my head and i know that the prefrontal cortex facilitates most of the dopamine receptors in your brain. I have aslo smoked marijuana and have done cocaine between that time and now, being the smart one that i am, and am currently dealling alot with depression and anxiety.

I had tried wellbutrin with cdp-choline and inositol, and had a horrible reaction, causing me to just stop all of them. I am currently now taking:

2x caps piractem 3x a day equalling the 4800mg mark
1 to 2 caps cdp -choline a day
Just recently low doses of id say 25mg picamilon
ocasional pretty sweet daily vitamin from rainbow life
Also recenetly 250mg of acetyl-l-carnatine with synthetic APA
Nordic Ultimate Omega on and off

Im mainly doing this for brain repair at the moment and well quite frankly im overstimulated as hell. Alot of the time i have to take some .5 ativan to go to bed which i dread doing do to its quick tolerance/dependencey factor. The picamilon is pretty good for anxiety id have to say but way too overstimulating for me. My brain is pretty wired as it is and all this sh*t together is causing me some pretty bad anxiety. I know that its do to the overexpressoin of acetlycholine, but im really trying to just work on my head and deal with the pain it brings. Furthering my question, im wondering if this is a fairly good way for brain repair, specifacally dopamine receptors. Also should i continue this route or lithium myself up or magesiobomb it to a zombiefied stated, therefore letting my NMDA and DA receptors rest.

I just ordered some Ortho Core along with some nice LEF Super EPA/DHA and plan to regimen with that longterm. Im going on tour this summer in Europe doing sound, and cant continue this regimen for its ups and downs are horrible. After i get these new supps im just wondering whether to go the "wake up neurons and dendodites time to fiddly foe fight" or be like "hey you guys need to chill....seriously"

Suggestions would be amazing



#52 herman1

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 06:50 PM

it sounds pretty much like my son(college student/athlete) and I. Neurofeedback sessions changed our lives I am 53 and have suffered from anxiety and depression for years. Neurofeedback saved my sons life! I go three a week for 1/2 hour each. One of the sessions are Alpha Theta. No phyco babble, just retrain the brain. I have went for about 40 sessions so far and life has changed for me. As for my son, he no longer calls me at 2 in the morning asking me to talk him down from his anxiety. No bodies perfect, coke, pot and alcohol are not good for anyone, but is used to self medicate our condition when not treated properly. Google EEGSpectrum and get a therapist. It WILL change your life for good.

Don't Wait - Do It NOW!

#53 abolitionist

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 05:45 PM

do you exercise? try 45 minutes of intense exercise 4-5 times per week

#54 mentatpsi

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 06:55 PM

it sounds pretty much like my son(college student/athlete) and I. Neurofeedback sessions changed our lives I am 53 and have suffered from anxiety and depression for years. Neurofeedback saved my sons life! I go three a week for 1/2 hour each. One of the sessions are Alpha Theta. No phyco babble, just retrain the brain. I have went for about 40 sessions so far and life has changed for me. As for my son, he no longer calls me at 2 in the morning asking me to talk him down from his anxiety. No bodies perfect, coke, pot and alcohol are not good for anyone, but is used to self medicate our condition when not treated properly. Google EEGSpectrum and get a therapist. It WILL change your life for good.

Don't Wait - Do It NOW!


Is the primary form used for your neurofeedback SMR or Alpha training? Also can you list some of your own experiences with Neurofeedback.

Edited by mysticpsi, 09 December 2007 - 06:57 PM.


#55 herman1

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 12:37 AM

it sounds pretty much like my son(college student/athlete) and I. Neurofeedback sessions changed our lives I am 53 and have suffered from anxiety and depression for years. Neurofeedback saved my sons life! I go three a week for 1/2 hour each. One of the sessions are Alpha Theta. No phyco babble, just retrain the brain. I have went for about 40 sessions so far and life has changed for me. As for my son, he no longer calls me at 2 in the morning asking me to talk him down from his anxiety. No bodies perfect, coke, pot and alcohol are not good for anyone, but is used to self medicate our condition when not treated properly. Google EEGSpectrum and get a therapist. It WILL change your life for good.

Don't Wait - Do It NOW!


Is the primary form used for your neurofeedback SMR or Alpha training? Also can you list some of your own experiences with Neurofeedback.


I'm not sure exactly what SMR means. However, here is my routine. Tues Frontal lobe training for ADD, Wed Alpha Theta, Thur Frontal lobe training. My experience has been very possitive. I can focus much better now. I don't get panicie anymore and my depression has decrease about 80%. What is really weard is that now I am much more in control of my thoughts. I didn't expect that! In the first 10 sessions I was having personal revalations about my negative emotions and distructive thoughts. For me depression was like a train comming full speed right at me and not even seeing it or being able to do anything about it. Now it only comes at me occasionally and I see it comming before it gets a grip on me. The way it was explained to me is that my executive lobe of my brain was under active (classic ADD) so when my emotions kicked in I couldn't properly evaluate them and make automatic adjustments. Many times after my Executive/Frontal lobe sessions I can actually feel the front of my brain. I know it sounds crazy but that is the truth. I know its working. I tried medication and it made me feel like a hollow shell. I tried willing it away. I drank and used drugs in my 20's to medicate. I prayed more. The only thing that helped was prayer, but I would soon be back in the depression cycle.

I think people with depression or anxiety are generally hard on themselves. This just made it worse for me. I lost a business becuase I spent the greater part of two years depressed and self lothing. I am now a forklift driver. From 18 years as a system integrater to a forklift driver. Isn't that the shits! I now have a plan and hope now. If all goes accordingly, one year from now I will be owning my own business again and kicking ass.

Good Luck

#56 stephen_b

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 03:48 AM

I'm going to start neurofeedback too soon now. I'm hoping for an improvement in executive functioning and motivation (I'm starting my masters in electrical engineering at the age of 43 this spring, on top of a full time job and family, and want to hit the ground running). I'm hopeful that it will make a difference.

Stephen

#57 mentatpsi

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 11:08 PM

I'm not sure exactly what SMR means. However, here is my routine. Tues Frontal lobe training for ADD, Wed Alpha Theta, Thur Frontal lobe training. My experience has been very possitive. I can focus much better now. I don't get panicie anymore and my depression has decrease about 80%. What is really weard is that now I am much more in control of my thoughts. I didn't expect that! In the first 10 sessions I was having personal revalations about my negative emotions and distructive thoughts. For me depression was like a train comming full speed right at me and not even seeing it or being able to do anything about it. Now it only comes at me occasionally and I see it comming before it gets a grip on me. The way it was explained to me is that my executive lobe of my brain was under active (classic ADD) so when my emotions kicked in I couldn't properly evaluate them and make automatic adjustments. Many times after my Executive/Frontal lobe sessions I can actually feel the front of my brain. I know it sounds crazy but that is the truth. I know its working.

Good Luck


SMR is really just Beta waves. The idea of feeling your brain isn't that crazy, I've experienced the same certain times, especially with Gamma Wave production using software, i can literally feel currents/energy moving through my brain. I wasn't familiar with Neurofeedback training being so extensive, I myself am getting it but it doesn't sound as thorough and complex as yours does.

I'm going to start neurofeedback too soon now. I'm hoping for an improvement in executive functioning and motivation (I'm starting my masters in electrical engineering at the age of 43 this spring, on top of a full time job and family, and want to hit the ground running). I'm hopeful that it will make a difference.

Stephen


Just bare in mine that in order to be licensed to practice EEG Neurofeedback you don't need very much, so be wary of who is doing the training for you. Also don't forget good dietary habits makes for better therapy lol.

Edited by mysticpsi, 12 December 2007 - 05:03 PM.


#58 graatch

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:04 PM

Yeah, frontal lobe training sounds pretty solid, even if I like poor latent inhibition.

I'd bet focus meditation can give similar results.

#59 mentatpsi

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 04:58 PM

Yeah, frontal lobe training sounds pretty solid, even if I like poor latent inhibition.

I'd bet focus meditation can give similar results.


Shrugs, Focus meditation if i assume its working correctly is mainly mindfulness meditation?

If so, then i would imagine the results would take much longer than EEG training, as neurofeedback is more direct and less prone to human error. Personally i just want to go to a Buddhist monastery and train for hours upon hours lol.

Thanks for the term Latent inhibition, there are methods to decrease latent inhibition, personally i found Bacopa does this well, though it wasn't independently taken.

Edited by mysticpsi, 12 December 2007 - 05:02 PM.


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#60 3VeRL0ng

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 08:42 AM

Hi kottke, I know this may seem like a pretty late post/response regarding your concern, but just recently I joined Imminst and stumbled across this while browsing through the forums. Thought it might be somewhat helpful/useful for taking care of your problem, especially if you've never heard of it:

http://www.imminst.o...;hl=octacosanol




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