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Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam


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13 replies to this topic

#1 Ghostrider

  • Location:USA

Posted 26 May 2006 - 04:07 AM


I know this question has been asked before. But usually the conversations go off on some other tangent. I have been using Piracetam for three days so far and I like the effects. Subtle, but I feel more mental energy and slightly more mentally aggressive. All good stuff. However, I do not experience any of the creative/artistic effects that other people have been mentioning. I take 800 mg in the morning on an empty stomach (1 capsule) and 800 mg in the evening after I return from work. I have tried Aniracetam and it's good too, but the half life is too short. I am looking for something that will last a while and provide a solid cognative boost. As I said, Piracetam is good, but how has Pramiracetam and Oxiracetam worked for you? I am just trying to determine if any of the other forms are worth pursuing. Which substance do you consider most beneficial for academic / intellectual performance? I am looking for subjective accounts. I also notice that I require slightly less sleep (by about 1 hour) when using Piracetam. Not sure why.

Also, what should I start out with in terms of dosage? Is the 'attack dosage' method marketing or myth?
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#2 doug123 Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:Nowhere

Posted 26 May 2006 - 04:19 AM

I could answer this but need to get to bed. Got a quiz. Oh: real quick: don't waste your $ on Pramiracetam. It does not seem to be any more effective than any of the other racetams -- and definately not worth the additional price. But if money is not a consideration, give it a try. What is your budget? No underlying disorders, ADD, ADHD, depression, etc?

Oh, and on attack dosage. Check your PM.

How could one possibly measure "creativity?"

Oh, and watch out for the *power* of the placebo effect: eh, ever tried "crystal therapy?" http://www.dailymail...74&in_a_source=
Posted Image

[quote name='http://skepdic.com/placebo.html']"The physician's belief in the treatment and the patient's faith in the physician exert a mutually reinforcing effect; the result is a powerful remedy that is almost guaranteed to produce an improvement and sometimes a cure." -- Petr Skrabanek and James McCormick, Follies and Fallacies in Medicine, p. 13.

The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many people to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for "I shall please") is a medication or treatment believed by the administrator of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those who believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a placebo. Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective is not known.

the psychological theory: it's all in your mind

Some believe the placebo effect is psychological, due to a belief in the treatment or to a subjective feeling of improvement. Irving Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Connecticut, believes that the effectiveness of Prozac and similar drugs may be attributed almost entirely to the placebo effect. He and Guy Sapirstein analyzed 19 clinical trials of antidepressants and concluded that the expectation of improvement, not adjustments in brain chemistry, accounted for 75 percent of the drugs' effectiveness (Kirsch 1998).  "The critical factor," says Kirsch, "is our beliefs about what's going to happen to us. You don't have to rely on drugs to see profound transformation." In an earlier study, Sapirstein analyzed 39 studies, done between 1974 and 1995, of depressed patients treated with drugs, psychotherapy, or a combination of both. He found that 50 percent of the drug effect is due to the placebo response.

A person's beliefs and hopes about a treatment, combined with their suggestibility, may have a significant biochemical effect. Sensory experience and thoughts can affect neurochemistry. The body's neurochemical system affects and is affected by other biochemical systems, including the hormonal and immune systems. Thus, it is consistent with current knowledge that a person's hopeful attitude and beliefs may be very important to their physical well-being and recovery from injury or illness.

However, it may be that much of the placebo effect is not a matter of mind over molecules, but of mind over behavior. A part of the behavior of a "sick" person is learned. So is part of the behavior of a person in pain. In short, there is a certain amount of role-playing by ill or hurt people. Role-playing is not the same as faking or malingering. The behavior of sick or injured persons is socially and culturally based to some extent. The placebo effect may be a measurement of changed behavior affected by a belief in the treatment. The changed behavior includes a change in attitude, in what one says about how one feels, and how one acts. It may also affect one's body chemistry.

The psychological explanation seems to be the one most commonly believed. Perhaps this is why many people are dismayed when they are told that the effective drug they are taking is a placebo. This makes them think that their problem is "all in their mind" and that there is really nothing wrong with them. Yet, there are too many studies which have found objective improvements in health from placebos to support the notion that the placebo effect is entirely psychological.

    Doctors in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off. In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on. Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually looked better when assessed with a sigmoidoscope ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).*

It is unlikely that such effects are purely psychological. But it is not necessarily the case that the placebo is actually effective in such[/quote]

http://skepdic.com/placebo.html
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#3 Ghostrider Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:USA

Posted 26 May 2006 - 04:55 AM

How could one possibly measure creativity?


I don't know. That's why I never claimed a benefit in creativity. I just did not notice anything in terms of more vivid imagery or picking up elements of music that I did not notice before. I did notice that my reading comprehension seems to be slightly better. (I have been studying for the GRE and observing the effects of Piracetam with standardized tests.) I think this is a good way to check for placebo. Generally though, I just feel better. Nothing is more vivid or better, I just seem to have more mental endurance. But back to the topic. What about Oxiracetam and Pramiracetam vs. Piracetam. I think it was Enigma who recommended Pramiracetam over Piracetam claiming that Pramiracetam was more potent (I have heard the same about Aniracetam, but have not felt the additional kick). Enigma or someone else, can you comment as to why Pramiracetam is superior to Piracetam? Can you describe the feeling? Potent in what sense, any additional negatives?
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#4 jubai Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 26 May 2006 - 06:08 AM

Well I'll have to report back in a week, but I've been a user of Piracetam for a year or so, and just got some Pramiracetam and decided to try it instead, with moderate dosage (2x 300mg a day), and to me it definetely feels cleaner than Piracetam. Both increase alertness, but Piracetam seems to be more "eccentric" and "electric", with ideas flying by easily and better elocution. So much that if I really get in my head, haven't meditated in a while etc, it can be too much and I lose focus.

I'm on day 2 now and Pramiracetam seems to bring even more alertness in a more centered, peaceful and calm way. Hard to explain, 30 min after popping it everytime I think "damn, this stuff is strong", but I don't know why I'm even saying that since everything is so calm and clear and I don't get the electric rush of Piracetam. Really weird.

Hard to measure, really, but so far my instinct tells me I prefer Prami, even though my wallet says no (pharmaceutical pramira vs bulk pira, haha indeed)

I know these things are difficult to measure at this point, but both compounds are made from different molecules, and I have a hard time believing the only difference is a potency factor that can be calculated with a rule-of-three. To me pramiracetam definetely has the feeling of beeing more profound and vast, similar to the damage it did to my wallet.
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#5 Ghostrider Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:USA

Posted 27 May 2006 - 01:40 AM

Well I'll have to report back in a week, but I've been a user of Piracetam for a year or so, and just got some Pramiracetam and decided to try it instead, with moderate dosage (2x 300mg a day), and to me it definetely feels cleaner than Piracetam. Both increase alertness, but Piracetam seems to be more "eccentric" and "electric", with ideas flying by easily and better elocution. So much that if I really get in my head, haven't meditated in a while etc, it can be too much and I lose focus.

I'm on day 2 now and Pramiracetam seems to bring even more alertness in a more centered, peaceful and calm way. Hard to explain, 30 min after popping it everytime I think "damn, this stuff is strong", but I don't know why I'm even saying that since everything is so calm and clear and I don't get the electric rush of Piracetam.  Really weird.

Hard to measure, really, but so far my instinct tells me I prefer Prami, even though my wallet says no (pharmaceutical pramira vs bulk pira, haha indeed) 

I know these things are difficult to measure at this point, but both compounds are made from different molecules, and I have a hard time believing the only difference is a potency factor that can be calculated with a rule-of-three. To me pramiracetam definetely has the feeling of beeing more profound and vast, similar to the damage it did to my wallet.


Can anyone else confirm this? I guess either way I will give pramiracetam a shot.
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#6 nancy_axel Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:37 AM

Well I'll have to report back in a week, but I've been a user of Piracetam for a year or so, and just got some Pramiracetam and decided to try it instead, with moderate dosage (2x 300mg a day), and to me it definetely feels cleaner than Piracetam. Both increase alertness, but Piracetam seems to be more "eccentric" and "electric", with ideas flying by easily and better elocution. So much that if I really get in my head, haven't meditated in a while etc, it can be too much and I lose focus.

I'm on day 2 now and Pramiracetam seems to bring even more alertness in a more centered, peaceful and calm way. Hard to explain, 30 min after popping it everytime I think "damn, this stuff is strong", but I don't know why I'm even saying that since everything is so calm and clear and I don't get the electric rush of Piracetam. Really weird.

Hard to measure, really, but so far my instinct tells me I prefer Prami, even though my wallet says no (pharmaceutical pramira vs bulk pira, haha indeed)

I know these things are difficult to measure at this point, but both compounds are made from different molecules, and I have a hard time believing the only difference is a potency factor that can be calculated with a rule-of-three. To me pramiracetam definetely has the feeling of beeing more profound and vast, similar to the damage it did to my wallet.


Can anyone else confirm this? I guess either way I will give pramiracetam a shot.


disagreement here .. read my other post (pram experiences)
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#7 nancy_axel Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:45 AM

Well I'll have to report back in a week, but I've been a user of Piracetam for a year or so, and just got some Pramiracetam and decided to try it instead, with moderate dosage (2x 300mg a day), and to me it definetely feels cleaner than Piracetam. Both increase alertness, but Piracetam seems to be more "eccentric" and "electric", with ideas flying by easily and better elocution. So much that if I really get in my head, haven't meditated in a while etc, it can be too much and I lose focus.

I'm on day 2 now and Pramiracetam seems to bring even more alertness in a more centered, peaceful and calm way. Hard to explain, 30 min after popping it everytime I think "damn, this stuff is strong", but I don't know why I'm even saying that since everything is so calm and clear and I don't get the electric rush of Piracetam. Really weird.

Hard to measure, really, but so far my instinct tells me I prefer Prami, even though my wallet says no (pharmaceutical pramira vs bulk pira, haha indeed)

I know these things are difficult to measure at this point, but both compounds are made from different molecules, and I have a hard time believing the only difference is a potency factor that can be calculated with a rule-of-three. To me pramiracetam definetely has the feeling of beeing more profound and vast, similar to the damage it did to my wallet.


Can anyone else confirm this? I guess either way I will give pramiracetam a shot.


disagreement here .. read my other post (pram experiences)


Hey guys, before luv derides this post etc etc ..


This is the skinny on 'racetams for me (positives and negatives, these effects are very unique and individualized):
*Pira -- probably the best racetam in the book -- comes on slowly but continuously amazing improvement over just a few weeks. makes things very clear. most tested of all the 'racetams and proven to be basically harmless.
Oxi -- makes me edgy, instant effects. almost like caffeine.
Ani -- enhanced memory, kills anxiety, increased sociability/confidence. comes on quickly. very short half life (2hrs) makes it unfeasible/unjustifiable for most (including me). take too much = mental fog. too many problems here.
Pram -- logic increased, but its the result of killing a lot of emotion. can get depressed once you go off it. makes one drowsy. take more piracetam as an alternative (and it won't kill your emotions). don't waste your money here unless you have quite a bit of cash on you .. or if your interested in becoming emotionless (although you're going to have to deal with these issues once you get off it) ..
Phenylpiracetam -- like a cup of coffee lasting 3/4 the day. tolerance quickly reached within a 2-4 days. .. not noticed beyond this ..

Edited by nancy_axel, 20 September 2008 - 03:03 AM.

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#8 nancy_axel Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:50 AM

I know this question has been asked before. But usually the conversations go off on some other tangent. I have been using Piracetam for three days so far and I like the effects. Subtle, but I feel more mental energy and slightly more mentally aggressive. All good stuff. However, I do not experience any of the creative/artistic effects that other people have been mentioning. I take 800 mg in the morning on an empty stomach (1 capsule) and 800 mg in the evening after I return from work. I have tried Aniracetam and it's good too, but the half life is too short. I am looking for something that will last a while and provide a solid cognative boost. As I said, Piracetam is good, but how has Pramiracetam and Oxiracetam worked for you? I am just trying to determine if any of the other forms are worth pursuing. Which substance do you consider most beneficial for academic / intellectual performance? I am looking for subjective accounts. I also notice that I require slightly less sleep (by about 1 hour) when using Piracetam. Not sure why.

Also, what should I start out with in terms of dosage? Is the 'attack dosage' method marketing or myth?


*can someone ban luv2increase & ben_aus and advanc3d from this forum .. just so they don't start a tangent. that'd be great :)
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#9 Ben Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:South East

Posted 20 September 2008 - 03:36 AM

*can someone ban luv2increase & ben_aus and advanc3d from this forum .. just so they don't start a tangent. that'd be great :-D


How ironic. Creating a conversational tangent that calls for the banning of people who create conversational tangents.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 20 September 2008 - 03:40 AM.

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#10 nancy_axel Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:14 PM

*can someone ban luv2increase & ben_aus and advanc3d from this forum .. just so they don't start a tangent. that'd be great :-D


How ironic. Creating a conversational tangent that calls for the banning of people who create conversational tangents.



Pram is known to have a slight anti-depressant mode of action, although it does cause mild sedation. I do not recommend it unless you find that pira does not work after 2-3 weeks of trial and initial attack dosing. If time is short, oxi is the way to go for the speedy/energetic feel ..

ben-aus .. there's a difference from my posts and yours. my posts have content .. your comments remind me of banter from the peanut gallery -- comments whose sole purpose is to deride posts and the acquisition of information.
let's create a rule for you .. for every comment about how people are screwing up the forum, why don't you add a comment that brings new information to the forums. thanks a lot sweetheart ;)

Edited by nancy_axel, 20 September 2008 - 06:20 PM.

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#11 luv2increase Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:Ohio

Posted 20 September 2008 - 08:54 PM

*can someone ban luv2increase & ben_aus and advanc3d from this forum .. just so they don't start a tangent. that'd be great :-D


How ironic. Creating a conversational tangent that calls for the banning of people who create conversational tangents.



Just ignore her.
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#12 AtticusFinch Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

Posted 11 October 2008 - 01:45 PM

Anyone have anymore thoughts on this?
- Atticus
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#13 hamishm00 Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 14 October 2008 - 09:42 PM

Pram is known to have a slight anti-depressant mode of action, although it does cause mild sedation. I do not recommend it unless you find that pira does not work after 2-3 weeks of trial and initial attack dosing. If time is short, oxi is the way to go for the speedy/energetic feel ..


Please would you stop talking about pram then in all these threads. Focus on something else that's positive. I have never seen you post on anything but, which means you are taking the p1ss and trying to make a buck.

Ban Ben and luv2increase? Maybe you should cut back on the pram.
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#14 Jacob Norris Re: Pramiracetam vs. Oxiracetam vs. Piracetam

  • Location:Lansing
  • yes

Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:51 AM

Haha wowwww
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