I don't plan on taking any resveratrol as a supplement until more studies are completed.
Yeah, same here.
Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:34 AM
I don't plan on taking any resveratrol as a supplement until more studies are completed.
Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:56 AM
QUOTE (cnorwood)
Have we posted MR's view of resveratrol anywhere yet?
I'm fairly sure it was posted somewhere in one of those long threads. Might as well link everyone to the forum at the MF, though:
http://www.methusela...isplay.php?f=48
Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:46 AM
I think the discussion on resveratrol's dubious claims and even possible dangers pointed out in the link provided by shepard is sufficient for the present moment to conclude that the stuff has been overhyped and supplementation with it is not reasonable.
FWIW, I'm very little impressed by the arguments against the safety of Sirt1 activation posted at Methusulah in regards to decreased p53 activity and the upregulation of Sirt1 in tumors. They're interesting points, but hardly warrant calling resveratrol a dangerous substance. They point out Sirt1 upregulation in some tumors; one would expect tumors, which often have a very stressful, hypoxic microenvironment to upregulate a stress-response master regulator. I see no reason at this point to think that it's causative rather than an adaptive response in the tumor. They also mention decreased p53 activity as being worrisome, but decreased p53 activity in terminally differentiated tissues, such as neurons and muscles, is exactly what we want in order to lessen their chances of undergoing apoptosis in response to transient stresses. A slight decrease in p53 activity in no way recapitulates a p53 null mutant, or loss of tumor suppressors like p21 or p16.
Posted 02 May 2007 - 02:13 PM
Posted 02 May 2007 - 02:34 PM
Posted 02 May 2007 - 03:12 PM
Is it possible to feel SIRT1 activation? (I guess not)
It seems T-Res has better lifespan increasing abilities in lower life forms. Add to that the fact the our bodies contain some amount of parasites, what could be the implications of that on long term? I see a strange paradox in this. I guess the mouses the studies are performed on live in very clinically clean laboratory environments.
Another paradox could be that the T-Res is part of a plants defence against fungi. And it increases the lifespan of yeast?
In the apparent heat of the discussion, I didn't want to play the role of smart-ass here.Brainbox has a very good point.
Exactly what does it feel like proteomist when your SIRT1 is activated?
Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:59 PM
Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:04 PM
I didn't want to play the role of smart-ass here.
Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:31 PM
Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:46 PM
I've said over and over do not megadose on rsv! There is nothing so safe that you can take huge amounts without worrying about it. Melatonin is another great substance but in huge amounts it promotes cancer while in normal doses it prevents cancer.
To worry about taking small amounts of rsv is very foolish. RSV is found in a variety of foods including grapes, raisins, blueberries, mulberries etc. It is a great thing to take in moderation. Avoid the heroic doses but don't avoid it altogether. The benefits of many things are dose related. Just because the mouse studies used huge doses does not mean huge doses are optimal. I've said this since day one and people keep telling me it works for them. Then they get problems later on, some of them.
Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:45 PM
I've said over and over do not megadose on rsv! There is nothing so safe that you can take huge amounts without worrying about it. Melatonin is another great substance but in huge amounts it promotes cancer while in normal doses it prevents cancer.
To worry about taking small amounts of rsv is very foolish. RSV is found in a variety of foods including grapes, raisins, blueberries, mulberries etc. It is a great thing to take in moderation. Avoid the heroic doses but don't avoid it altogether. The benefits of many things are dose related. Just because the mouse studies used huge doses does not mean huge doses are optimal. I've said this since day one and people keep telling me it works for them. Then they get problems later on, some of them.
What dose do you consider megadosing and why? Maybe a range of dosing. moderate dosage, large dosage, megadose, ridiculous dosage.
Example
moderate 10mg-100mg
large = 100mg-300mg
megadose = 300-800mg
ridiculous = 800mg+
Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:52 PM
Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:10 PM
Posted 03 May 2007 - 12:15 AM
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:11 PM
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:13 PM
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:14 PM
I don't think it's possible to compare apples and oranges here. The therapeutic doses of various substances differ substantially.'Oh my god, two grams! That's hy-uge!' Well, what about ibuprofen? A typical therapeutic dose is 800mg, twice a day.
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:19 PM
I don't think it's possible to compare apples and oranges here. The therapeutic doses of various substances differ substantially.'Oh my god, two grams! That's hy-uge!' Well, what about ibuprofen? A typical therapeutic dose is 800mg, twice a day.
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:29 PM
I suspect that many who are in the mega or ridiculous range are not absorbing all or even much of what they take. This may be protecting them from some of the side effects. If they tweaked their diet which caused them to suddenly absorb a lot more, this could lead to toxicity if they were on a humongous dose regimen.
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:38 PM
Well, that's exactly my point. They do, and so dosage choice should be based on empirical data, not wild speculation. I belive the data point to 5-10mg/kg/day to be the minimal efficacious dose.
I don't think it's possible to compare apples and oranges here. The therapeutic doses of various substances differ substantially.'Oh my god, two grams! That's hy-uge!' Well, what about ibuprofen? A typical therapeutic dose is 800mg, twice a day.
Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:46 PM
On the other hand, I also think Xanadu (and others as well) might have a point here. There are a lot of anecdotal observations in the 500mg thread that were not predicted by the research, so one might be very careful not to overdo things and stay around the natural dose of let's say 5mg.
Posted 04 May 2007 - 02:16 AM
Posted 04 May 2007 - 02:31 PM
Edited by Anthony_Loera, 04 May 2007 - 03:20 PM.
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:27 PM
Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:00 PM
I guess I have to put in my 2 cents in now...
http://www.revgeneti...vailability.pdf
From this study, I am sure we are safe to say the following:
0 - 1 mg ... tiny (Easily flushed by your system, nothing found in human plasma)
1 - 50 mg... small (Easily flushed by your system, only traces found in human plasma)
We don't have human dosage studies above 25mg at this time. So the following represents my "wild speculation" having read through a Barcelona study on rats and high dosage of rsv, the bioavailability study I linked to previously, and another study that compares dosages of various substances in different animals including humans.
250 - 400 mg ... medium
401 - 3000 mg ... Optimum depending on your weight
3001 - 6000 mg ... Large dosage
6001 - 15000 mg ... Truly a megadose (I would not even consider this unless the rsv is pure)
Abstract from Barcelona study:
http://jn.nutrition....tract/132/2/257
Having said that... I heard someone say something about toxicity here... please let me know where I can find a study regarding that, as of yet I have found no issues with toxicity regarding Resveratrol.
Now... the above mg list is based on taking Resveratrol orally (powder or capsule), and not injected (or in any other delivery system).
Thanks
Anthony
Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:51 PM
Posted 04 May 2007 - 07:13 PM
To say that the mouse studies "prove" that large doses are safe is very foolish. They show nothing of the sort. Just because a mouse does not die during a certain time period under a specified dose, doesn't mean you can ramp up and say something similar is therefore safe in humans. First of all, no one asked the mice if they had numbness in their extremities. No one followed up to see how they did later. It was just short studies to find some physical reaction.
I'm all in favor of the mega people taking enormous doses. We need guinea pigs and they are elected and have been self selected. I see that the guy who sells it advocates taking it by the handful. Maybe he will write a guide on cooking with rsv? It must be tiresome swallowing all that powder or pills so why not cook with it? Let the mega people find out for the rest of us what the side effects are. I'll watch from the sidelines. I've cut down to about 1 mg per day in my multivitamin and I'm not sure but I think I can feel that.
"I think megadosing resveratrol is a very new approach and if there is toxicity issues, we might soon find out."
Indeed
Posted 04 May 2007 - 07:15 PM
I guess I have to put in my 2 cents in now...
http://www.revgeneti...vailability.pdf
From this study, I am sure we are safe to say the following:
0 - 1 mg ... tiny (Easily flushed by your system, nothing found in human plasma)
1 - 50 mg... small (Easily flushed by your system, only traces found in human plasma)
We don't have human dosage studies above 25mg at this time. So the following represents my "wild speculation" having read through a Barcelona study on rats and high dosage of rsv, the bioavailability study I linked to previously, and another study that compares dosages of various substances in different animals including humans.
250 - 400 mg ... medium
401 - 3000 mg ... Optimum depending on your weight
3001 - 6000 mg ... Large dosage
6001 - 15000 mg ... Truly a megadose (I would not even consider this unless the rsv is pure)
Abstract from Barcelona study:
http://jn.nutrition....tract/132/2/257
Having said that... I heard someone say something about toxicity here... please let me know where I can find a study regarding that, as of yet I have found no issues with toxicity regarding Resveratrol.
Now... the above mg list is based on taking Resveratrol orally (powder or capsule), and not injected (or in any other delivery system).
Thanks
Anthony
that's the problem...no human studies and we are going way over 25mg, or most of us are. Following 'wild speculation' is not my idea of a common sense approach.
I realize you are a strong proponent of larger doses and represent a supplier of resveratrol and that in itself makes me a skeptic and i mean this in the best way possible... I don't know you, but I'm just a skeptic when it comes to many things. You maybe entirely right in your opinion and I will give you complete credit if we ever discover that you are. If studies prove many benefits to large dosing, then i'm all for it!!
I think megadosing resveratrol is a very new approach and if there is toxicity issues, we might soon find out.
Posted 04 May 2007 - 09:28 PM
I realize you are a strong proponent of larger doses and represent a supplier of resveratrol and that in itself makes me a skeptic and i mean this in the best way possible... I don't know you, but I'm just a skeptic when it comes to many things. You maybe entirely right in your opinion and I will give you complete credit if we ever discover that you are. If studies prove many benefits to large dosing, then i'm all for it!!
I think megadosing resveratrol is a very new approach and if there is toxicity issues, we might soon find out.
250 - 400 mg ... medium
401 - 3000 mg ... Optimum depending on your weight
3001 - 6000 mg ... Large dosage
6001 - 15000 mg ... Truly a megadose (I would not even consider this unless the rsv is pure)
Edited by Anthony_Loera, 04 May 2007 - 09:43 PM.
Posted 04 May 2007 - 09:40 PM
I realize you are a strong proponent of larger doses and represent a supplier of resveratrol and that in itself makes me a skeptic and i mean this in the best way possible... I don't know you, but I'm just a skeptic when it comes to many things. You maybe entirely right in your opinion and I will give you complete credit if we ever discover that you are. If studies prove many benefits to large dosing, then i'm all for it!!
I think megadosing resveratrol is a very new approach and if there is toxicity issues, we might soon find out.
Thanks, I think we come from this from 2 different points of view, but can agree that it will be a great benefit when the studies regarding rsv are completed. I personally have taken 2grams a day now for... oh I think its been 5-6 months maybe a bit more... and all I can say is that I haven't had issues. I actually have felt very well, and pretty normal. I think I have personally have had a bit of an attitude change toward the better, and concentration is good as well. I have an overall good outlook on life, and a few other things regarding endurance when taxed, and recovery time is less when strained physically. But if a person on the outside that has known me, sees me and tried to describe any change, they will likely say I have changed to be much more of a family man than I used to be.
I havent been on 2 grams a day for a year yet, but I don't see many outward changes, maybe excpet for my weight loss (about 20 some pounds) but I don't think that is a big change.
regarding toxicity, I do have another study here that states how much is necessary for a rat to have adverse effects:
http://171.66.120.17...stract/82/2/614250 - 400 mg ... medium
401 - 3000 mg ... Optimum depending on your weight
3001 - 6000 mg ... Large dosage
6001 - 15000 mg ... Truly a megadose (I would not even consider this unless the rsv is pure)
Basically, at 3000mg per kilogram of body weight... a human that is 150lbs would have to consume... I figure 204,000 mg (204 grams) a day to have issues. That is waaaaaaaayy over the 15 grams I was talking about in the list above...
I think for those folks who simply want to have more data, this may help regarding toxicity. If we go by these measurements, we are still way below an adverse reaction.
Anthony Loera
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users