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Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?


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30 replies to this topic

#1 mirian

Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:14 PM


This is the multivitamin formulated by Bill Sardi the president of Longevinex

Edited by mirian, 19 June 2007 - 04:01 AM.

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#2 Shepard Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 09:16 PM

I'd appreciate it if you'd format your argument like such:

Multi I Prefer is good because:
1.XXX (PMID)
2.XXX (PMID)
Etc.

Multi I don't prefer is bad because:
1. XXX

This would definitely improve the odds of people actually reading through your posts (myself included) and we might have some decent discussion.
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#3 Brainbox Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 13 June 2007 - 09:23 PM

Agreed. This is very hard to digest but probably very interesting.
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#4 Mind Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 13 June 2007 - 10:28 PM

Please keep your posts more concise. Provide one or two points to discuss. Make sure there is a coherent idea in each post. Otherwise no one is going to read your posts or take anything positive away from them.
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#5 sentinel Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:London (ish)

Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:06 AM

.. and clearly everyone should be taking more amphetamines in order to keep up with this.

"Tech support, slap a few more gigs on the server will you. It's going to be a busy day.."

sentinel
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#6 Shepard Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:37 AM

And make or add:

1. Potassium glycinate 99mg

2. IP6 from rice bran extract at 120mg

3. Taurine at 50mg

4. Lycopene (Lyc-O-Mato)  2mg


1. Why is potassium even an issue? 99mg is the limit for dietary supplements, but it's such a small dose. I'd rather them put something in their multi that will actually be useful at that kind of dosage and not have to increase serving size.
2. See below.
3. Again, such a low dose isn't worth the hassle.
4. See above.

Ortho-Core has lycopene and taurine at respectable doses. But it's just a wider foundation. And that's what a good multi is. It's not an end-all to supplementation. It's a foundation that you build off of. I don't want my multi to come with an ORAC rating. I'll go eat an apple.

All minerals are resistant to IP6 due to chelation.


Any evidence of this?
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#7 ageless Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 14 June 2007 - 03:50 PM

And make or add:

1. Potassium glycinate 99mg

2. IP6 from rice bran extract at 120mg

3. Taurine at 50mg

4. Lycopene (Lyc-O-Mato)  2mg


1. Why is potassium even an issue? 99mg is the limit for dietary supplements, but it's such a small dose. I'd rather them put something in their multi that will actually be useful at that kind of dosage and not have to increase serving size.
2. See below.
3. Again, such a low dose isn't worth the hassle.
4. See above.

Ortho-Core has lycopene and taurine at respectable doses. But it's just a wider foundation. And that's what a good multi is. It's not an end-all to supplementation. It's a foundation that you build off of. I don't want my multi to come with an ORAC rating. I'll go eat an apple.



Any evidence of this?


Good points Shep. I feel the same way and typcially avoid multi's that try to interest people with too many ingredients at ineffective levels and try to do too much. I really don't see anything better than AOR's Multi Basics or Ortho Core at this time.
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#8 ageless Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 14 June 2007 - 07:31 PM

Ok this multi issue is getting to me... Supergreens is NOT the best. Or even close for that matter...

Beta carotene is the only carotenoid? And most importantly is this natural source or the synthetic which I would HIGHLY suggest be avoided based on the scientific literature.

Vitamin D 2000iu is nice, maybe a tad high for one consuming an adequate diet rich in vitamin D sources such as milk, fatty fish, etc... and you could easily approach 3000 iu/day... and how is sun exposure, is this safe truely long term? Probably, but personally I love the new research on vitamin D, but try and avoid the media craze that has everyone popping vit. D. For me, 1000iu from AOR's Multi Basics 3, some sun and a good diet gets me all I need. I might add a tad more in the long winter months.

I don't like the Vitamin E dosing and it is not the most ideal... just 50mg of added mixed tocopherols to 200iu of only one of eight vitamin E isomers (D-alpha).
Already I am disillusioned with this multi and this is the first 3 of 4 ingredients... maybe a bad start as the rest ain't so bad
I like the Mineral dosing and forms used.

Most of the rest for me is just fillers to sell the multi with plenty of 'in the news' ingredients, but of ineffective dosing for the most part. I just don't see their purpose except to sell more to less informed consumers.

Bottom line, it ain't bad, but it sure ain't perfect. And I kinda lean towards perfection when it comes to this stuff. Sometimes nothing is better than something and I think most multi's out there are better off not taken at all. Not saying this one is, but I wouldn't take it.

If you're obsessed with your multi's ORAC rating then realize even a poor standard multi such as Centrum advanced has a rating of 2,852. I don't think this is a good way to judge a multi as this is not what a multi is intended for. Also, using mineral chelating substances such as IP6 for example as Supergreens does, gives a falsified higher ORAC rating than it should have.
If you truely want a high ORAC rating in your multi, then vitacost might have what you are looking for... I like their formulas for the most part, but again not quite as perfect as I'd hope for and expensive. Some people like the kitchen sink approach more than others.
They have their platinum multi with an ORAC rating of 11,000 per 1000mg.
http://www.vitacost....ods/synergy.cfm
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#9 health_nutty Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:California

Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:10 PM

IP6 is a good supplement but I wouldn't want to take in my multivitamin (or with meals). It will chelate some of the minerals in the supplement or in the meal. Although the tiny amount in the PMSG is unlikely to do anything positive or negative.

Edited by health_nutty, 14 June 2007 - 09:41 PM.

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#10 krillin Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:USA

Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:21 PM

No, its in the JOURNAL OF NEUROLOGY:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....7&dopt=Abstract


You're making this way too easy. I clicked on your PubMed link and got "Neurology". Not "J Neurol".

Neurology. 2003 Jun 10;60(11):1761-6.
Parkinson's disease risks associated with dietary iron, manganese, and other nutrient intakes.
Powers KM, Smith-Weller T, Franklin GM, Longstreth WT, Swanson PD, Checkoway H.

If your 25-hydroxyvitamin D level is 45 and you're taking only 1,000 IU's of D3 then good luck with melanoma from all that good for nothing UV radiation.


You're jumping to conclusions again. I have gingervitis (Google search if you are culturally deprived and don't understand the term.) and have to stay out of the sun. Have you ever heard of biochemical individuality?

Accelerated Cognitive Decline among people consuming 1.6mg or more.[J Archives of Neurology Aug 2006]

This is another example of why we demand PMIDs. You got the journal name wrong again. It's Archives of Neurology. And you misrepresented the results again. Copper was found to hurt only those who consume high amounts of saturated and trans fats.

Arch Neurol. 2006 Aug;63(8):1085-8.
Dietary copper and high saturated and trans fat intakes associated with cognitive decline.
Morris MC, Evans DA, Tangney CC, Bienias JL, Schneider JA, Wilson RS, Scherr PA.

Department of Internal Medicine, Rush Institute for Healthy Aging, Rush University Medical Center, 1645 W. Jackson Street, Chicago, IL 60612, USA. Martha_C_Morris@rush.edu

BACKGROUND: Evidence from prospective epidemiologic studies and animal models suggests that intakes of dietary fats and copper may be associated with neurodegenerative diseases. OBJECTIVE: To examine whether high dietary copper intake is associated with increased cognitive decline among persons who also consume a diet high in saturated and trans fats. DESIGN: Community-based prospective study. SETTING: Chicago, Ill.Patients Chicago residents 65 years and older. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Cognitive function was assessed using 4 cognitive tests administered during in-home interviews at 3-year intervals for 6 years. Dietary assessment was performed with a food frequency questionnaire. Dietary intakes of copper and fats were related to change in global cognitive score (the mean of the 4 tests) among 3718 participants. RESULTS: Among persons whose diets were high in saturated and trans fats, higher copper intake was associated with a faster rate of cognitive decline. In multiple-adjusted mixed models, the difference in rates for persons in the highest (median, 2.75 mg/d) vs lowest (median, 0.88 mg/d) quintiles of total copper intake was -6.14 standardized units per year (P<.001) or the equivalent of 19 more years of age. There was also a marginally statistically significant association (P = .07) with the highest quintile of food intake of copper (median, 1.51 mg/d) and a strong dose-response association with higher copper dose in vitamin supplements. Copper intake was not associated with cognitive change among persons whose diets were not high in these fats. CONCLUSION: These data suggest that high dietary intake of copper in conjunction with a diet high in saturated and trans fats may be associated with accelerated cognitive decline.

PMID: 16908733

99% of all Multi's have 15mg of Zn except AOR's Multi for no good reason.


The RDA was changed and AOR was the only company that noticed. I shall post the reference for a second time. I apologize for asking you to read a scary National Academy of Science book instead of Men's Health or Prevention.

http://books.nap.edu...=10026&page=442

I don't need a reference for everything I say


You've misrepresented the results of too many papers to be trusted.

99mg of K Glycinate because most Americans get too low of intakes.


It'll help as much as putting a banana in your ear.

Vanadium references listed below in this email. Hasn't shown essential in humans just animals and can have adverse effects.


AOR puts in 1% of the UL. That's like worrying about the cyanide in B12. I'm still waiting for your proof that the cyanide will hurt you.

Toxicol Lett. 2004 Apr 21;150(2):135-43.
Vanadium--an element of atypical biological significance.
Mukherjee B, Patra B, Mahapatra S, Banerjee P, Tiwari A, Chatterjee M.
Department of Pharmaceutical Technology, Jadavpur University, Kolkata 700032, India. biswajit55@yahoo.com

The biological image of the transition element vanadium ferments a great deal of contradiction-from toxicity to essentiality. Importance of this element as micro-nutrient is yet to be unequivocally accepted by biologists and biomedical scientists. In spite of toxicity, it seems interesting to analyze the different biological roles of the element. Vanadium compounds have been proven to be associated with various implications in the pathogenesis of some human diseases and also in maintaining normal body functions. Salts of vanadium interfere with an essential array of enzymatic systems such as different ATPases, protein kinases, ribonucleases and phosphatases. While vanadium deficiency accounts for several physiological malfunctionings including thyroid, glucose and lipid metabolism, etc., several genes are regulated by this element or by its compounds, which include genes for tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha), Interleukin-8 (IL-8), activator protein-1 (AP-1), ras, c-raf-1, mitogen activated protein kinase (MAPK), p53, nuclear factors-kappaB, etc. All these seem to be not far from its recognition as an element of pharmacological and nutritional significance, which is revealed through its increasing therapeutic uses in diabetes. Vanadium is also emerging as a potent anti-carcinogenic agent. This review summarizes the developments related to vanadium biology as a whole by analyzing the general biochemical functions of vanadium.

PMID: 15093669

AOR's Ortho-Core even has some synthetic vitamin E (petroleum) in it's other ingredients


As the last ingredient listed by weight. < 0.003%. This is like worrying about the cocaine residues on money. Your mention of petroleum is irrelevant and is a shameless tactic used to frighten the ignorant. Synthetic vitamin E is a mixture of eight stereoisomers of alpha tocopherol that are not present in crude oil. It's bad because it can displace other tocopherols, not because of its origin.

By the way, POSSESSIVE ITS HAS NO APOSTROPHE!
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#11 woly Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 15 June 2007 - 07:32 AM

why is 99mg of potasium the limit for supplements?
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#12 krillin Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:USA

Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:37 PM

What does it matter if it's Journal of Neurology or another reference. You just don't like what it shows so you're desperate and grasping at straws.


It matters because it makes it very difficult to look up your references if you don't give a PMID AND get the journal name wrong. And once I found it, lo and behold, it didn't support your position. High manganese was only harmful in conjunction with high iron.

Neurology. 2003 Jun 10;60(11):1761-6.
Parkinson's disease risks associated with dietary iron, manganese, and other nutrient intakes.
Powers KM, Smith-Weller T, Franklin GM, Longstreth WT, Swanson PD, Checkoway H.

Departments of Environmental Health, University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle 98195-7234, USA.

BACKGROUND: Dietary influences on oxidative stress have been thought to play important role in the etiology of PD. OBJECTIVE: To examine associations of PD with dietary nutrients, including minerals, vitamins, and fats. METHODS: A population-based case-control study was conducted among newly diagnosed case (n = 250) and control subjects (n = 388) identified between 1992 and 2002 from enrollees of the Group Health Cooperative health maintenance organization in western Washington state. Controls were frequency matched to cases on sex and age. In-person interviews elicited data on food frequency habits during most of adult life. Nutrient intakes were calculated and analyzed by adjusting each person's nutrient intake by their total energy intake (the nutrient density technique). RESULTS: Subjects with an iron intake in the highest quartile compared with those in the lowest quartile had an increased risk of PD (odds ratio = 1.7, 95% CI: 1.0, 2.7, trend p = 0.016). There was an apparent joint effect of iron and manganese; dietary intake above median levels of both together conferred a nearly doubled risk compared with lower intakes of each nutrient (odds ratio = 1.9, 95% CI: 1.2, 2.9). No strong associations were found for either antioxidants or fats. CONCLUSION: A high intake of iron, especially in combination with high manganese intake, may be related to risk for PD.

PMID: 12796527

A 2003 study found no significant difference in absorption for serum levels from oral vs sublingual delivery of 500 micrograms of methylcobalamin.  [Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2003 Dec;56(6):635-8] You said methylcobalamin is only absorbed sublingually.


You misquote me, just like you do with an annoying number of your references.

Methylcobalamin should be taken sublingually to avoid the liver converting it into a different form.


Oral methylcobalamin is perfectly good for raising B12 levels in general. But if you want to specifically raise methylcobalamin it's best to bypass liver processing. All the leading companies thus sell methylcobalamin as sublingual lozenges: AOR, LEF, Now, Jarrow, Source Naturals, Natural Factors, Country Life, etc. (By the way, that study PMID: 14616423 used the generic term cobalamin for both the supplement form and blood form. Did the full paper say methylcobalamin, or did you make that part up?)

So, facts are why would governments approbe another form of B12 if cyanocobablin is harmless? Wouldn't it be wise to stick with the safer form so you don't have to worry?


??? Methylcobalamin is a natural and safe substance so they had to allow it.

Let's do some cyanide math. Ortho Core has 24 mcg B12. Let's be generous and assume that intrinsic factor will get you 6 mcg and you get 1% absorption of the rest for a total of 6.18 mcg total absorption. B12's molecular weight is 1355.38, and cyanide accounts for 26 of that. So it's 1.9% cyanide = 0.12 mcg cyanide. You get cyanide toxicity at 0.02 mg/kg/day, so Ortho Core gets you to 0.008% of the chronic toxic dose for a 70 kg person. Don't you have better things to worry about?

http://rais.ornl.gov...nide_c_V1.shtml

Cyanocobalamin is both cheaper and stabler than methylcobalamin, (methylcobalamin breaks down in light), so for an oral preparation it makes sense to use it.

Krillin, you have never offered evidence that your position is better but merely different. For example, you never showed a reference showing the Broccoli form of selenium is better than SelenoExcell.


MeSC is better than the selenocompounds (like selenomethionine) found in selenized yeast. Why take a mish-mash when you can take the best individual compound? For a better understanding, read AOR's selenium article.

http://www.aor.ca/in...2003_Spring.pdf

EDIT: replaced "atomic weight" with "molecular weight" in cyanide calculation

Edited by krillin, 16 June 2007 - 06:06 PM.

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#13 krillin Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:USA

Posted 15 June 2007 - 10:20 PM

It's odd, how you say, 11mg of zinc is the new RDA for zinc in AOR's defense. But, yet 200mcg of selenium that AOR has is far beyond the RDA:


Zinc's research is more complete than selenium's, so its RDA is more reliable. The RDA for selenium was set to ensure that there is enough for glutathione peroxidase production. They did not consider the anti-cancer effect, which requires more.

PMSG has 150mcg since the average American gets 80mcg to 100mcg and the upper safe limit is 400mcg. A common symptom of too much selenium can be a numb big toe.


MeSC is one of the least toxic selenium compounds. Its potency to toxicity ratio is double that of the selenomethionine in your yeast mix. And it doesn't build up in tissues like selenomethionine does.

There's a lack of selenium dose-finding studies. The Clark study used 200 mcg so it's best to imitate that for now. But I acknowledge that 150 mcg could be a better dose.
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#14 wayside Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 15 June 2007 - 11:50 PM

Would you please stop using ALL CAPS?

It doesn't help get your points across. It's just annoying.
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#15 health_nutty Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:California

Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:04 AM

Krillin, you make it up as you go along:

Cyanide is a poison. Only a fool would try figuring out what trace amount is safe. Spend your time more productively.


The poison is in the dosage. All substances are toxic at some level (even water). Krillin clearly showed a reference that it is at an extremely safe level.

Then you end your post with a rant about iron which nobody is debating (neither of your multi's have iron).
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#16 mirian Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 16 June 2007 - 01:53 AM

Krillin must work for AOR and you all are biased with some sort of agenda and has been trying to gray the truth.

Fact remains:

1. Vitamin K2 as MK-7 has a higher half life than AOR's MK-4.

2. SelenoExcell is more researched and proven form of selenium.

3. Someone taking Perfect Multi Super Greens is getting beyond the 3,150 ORAC being 9 serving of Fruits and veggies recommended by the National Cancer Institute.

4. Iron, copper, and manganese free multivitamins are best based on average intakes of nutrients by Americans

5. Methylcobalamin is clearly the best form of B12.

6. Merck's Metafolin Folate is known to be better than synthetic folic acid. Many people's bodies do know the difference. Hence, why 1/3 don't synthesize folate from folic acid.

7. 500mg of vitamin C should be the minimum dose for any optimal multivitamin.

These facts are what you people don't like cause your pushing AOR. I'm glad Iherb won't sell that garbage.

You people either are AOR people or just plain ignore facts. Which makes you ignorant!

It makes perfect sense to you to be comparing cyanide to water? You people are nuts.

Edited by mirian, 16 June 2007 - 02:20 AM.

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#17 mike250 Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 16 June 2007 - 02:28 AM

I would agree about the Vitamin C content. 300-400mg is, according to the Linus Pauling institute, what is required to fully saturate plasma and circulating cells with vitamin C in young, healthy nonsmokers.
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#18 krillin Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:USA

Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:10 PM

Explain how page 16 on AOR's own literature says 12mg of B1 can be absorbed read my previous post here. You said only 9mg of B1 can be absorbed. Wrong, it's 12mg the same amount as in yours truly: Perfect Multi Super Greens


Easy: I didn't bother to look up the exact number since it didn't impact my point, which was that a B-100 wouldn't add anything significant to a regimen already containing Ortho-Core. 9 mg keeps you out of deficiency, and an extra 3 or 100 mg won't do anything about AGEs. Benfotiamine is required for that.

Krillin controls your minds like your all on a string connected to his fingers!


I have authoritah, and people must respect it.

Dr. Cathcart is one of the world's greatest authorities on vitamin C supplementation. Dr. Cathcart says you must take twice as much ascorbate to have the same antioxidant effect of ascorbic acid, and Krillin says he's wrong.


Are you sure he actually said that? In the below paper he uses the term ascorbate to describe the sum of both ascorbic acid and mineral ascorbates. As he should, since they are interchangeable for antioxidant/vitamin purposes. He uses mixtures of ascorbic acid and mineral ascorbates, whereas that website you provided has him supposedly saying that he can't get the ascorbate effect with ascorbates.

http://www.lighthous...v_info/vitc.htm

The following protocol is recommended for AIDS and AIDS related conditions including lymphadenopathy, idiopathic thrombo- cytopenia purpura, and Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia.

As predicted, AIDS patients are usually capable of ingesting large doses of ascorbate. It is desirable that the amount of ascorbate taken orally be maximized. Patients are -titrated to bowel tolerance- (the amount that almost, but not quite, causes diarrhea). A -balanced ascorbate- mixture is utilized which is made up of a mixture of approximately 25% buffered ascorbate salts (calcium, magnesium, and potassium ascorbate) and 75% ascorbic acid. This mixture is dissolved in a small amount of water and taken at least every hour. The purpose of the frequent doses and this balanced mixture is to maximize the amount of ascorbate tolerated without producing diarrhea. Patients are permitted to vary the percentage of ascorbate salts to straight ascorbic acid according to taste. The usual amount tolerated initially is between 40 and 100 grams per 24 hours. -Doses in excess of 100 grams per 24 hours may be necessary with secondary bacterial and viral infections-. As the patient's condition improves, bowel tolerance will decrease.


500mg of vitamin C should be the minimum dose for any optimal multivitamin


Too low for megadosers and too high for diabetics. Better to put a smidge in and let megadosers take as much separately as they want. One theory is that since oxidized vitamin C (dehydroascorbate) is brought into cells for recycling by glucose transporters, it doesn't get recycled in diabetics.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Nov;80(5):1194-200.
Does supplemental vitamin C increase cardiovascular disease risk in women with diabetes?
Lee DH, Folsom AR, Harnack L, Halliwell B, Jacobs DR.

Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis 55454, USA.

BACKGROUND: Vitamin C acts as a potent antioxidant; however, it can also be a prooxidant and glycate protein under certain circumstances in vitro. These observations led us to hypothesize that a high intake of vitamin C in diabetic persons might promote atherosclerosis. OBJECTIVE: The objective was to examine the relation between vitamin C intake and mortality from cardiovascular disease. DESIGN: We studied the relation between vitamin C intake and mortality from total cardiovascular disease (n = 281), coronary artery disease (n = 175), and stroke (n = 57) in 1923 postmenopausal women who reported being diabetic at baseline. Diet was assessed with a food-frequency questionnaire at baseline, and subjects initially free of coronary artery disease were prospectively followed for 15 y. RESULTS: After adjustment for cardiovascular disease risk factors, type of diabetes medication used, duration of diabetes, and intakes of folate, vitamin E, and beta-carotene, the adjusted relative risks of total cardiovascular disease mortality were 1.0, 0.97, 1.11, 1.47, and 1.84 (P for trend < 0.01) across quintiles of total vitamin C intake from food and supplements. Adjusted relative risks of coronary artery disease were 1.0, 0.81, 0.99, 1.26, and 1.91 (P for trend = 0.01) and of stroke were 1.0, 0.52, 1.23, 2.22, and 2.57 (P for trend < 0.01). When dietary and supplemental vitamin C were analyzed separately, only supplemental vitamin C showed a positive association with mortality endpoints. Vitamin C intake was unrelated to mortality from cardiovascular disease in the nondiabetic subjects at baseline. CONCLUSION: A high vitamin C intake from supplements is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease mortality in postmenopausal women with diabetes.

PMID: 15531665

Brain Res. 2003 Dec 12;993(1-2):201-7.
Differential effects of glucose on dehydroascorbic acid transport and intracellular ascorbate accumulation in astrocytes and skeletal myocytes.
Korcok J, Dixon SJ, Lo TC, Wilson JX.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada N6A 5C1.

Skeletal muscle and brain are major sites of glucose transport and ascorbate (vitamin C) storage. Ascorbate is oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid (DHAA) when used as an enzyme cofactor or free radical scavenger. We evaluated the hypothesis that glucose regulates DHAA uptake and reduction to ascorbate (i.e., recycling) by skeletal muscle cells and cerebral astrocytes. DHAA uptake was inhibited partially by glucose added simultaneously with DHAA. Comparison of wild type L6 skeletal muscle cells with an L6-derived cell line (D23) deficient in facilitative hexose transporter isoform 3 (GLUT3), indicated that both GLUT3 and facilitative hexose transporter isoform 1 (GLUT1) mediate DHAA uptake. Preincubation of muscle cells with glucose inhibited the rates of glucose and DHAA uptake, and decreased the intracellular concentration of ascorbate derived from recycling of DHAA. In contrast, glucose preincubation did not depress GLUT1 protein and activity levels or DHAA recycling in astrocytes. These results establish that glucose downregulates subsequent recycling of DHAA by skeletal muscle cells but not astrocytes.

PMID: 14642847
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#19 Shepard Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
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  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:48 PM

Krillin controls your minds like your all on a string connected to his fingers!


The only thing krillin controls is my heart.
But that's just because I am his father.
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#20 mike250 Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 17 June 2007 - 12:32 AM

Biol Psychiatry. 2002 Aug 15;52(4):371-4.

High-dose ascorbic acid increases intercourse frequency and improves mood: a randomized controlled clinical trial.

Brody S.

Center for and the Psychosomatic and Psychobiological Research, University of Trier, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Ascorbic acid (AA) modulates catecholaminergic activity, decreases stress reactivity, approach anxiety and prolactin release, improves vascular function, and increases oxytocin release. These processes are relevant to sexual behavior and mood. METHODS: In this randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled 14 day trial of sustained-release AA (42 healthy young adults; 3000 mg/day Cetebe) and placebo (39 healthy young adults), subjects with partners recorded penile-vaginal intercourse (FSI), noncoital partner sex, and masturbation in daily diaries, and also completed the Beck Depression Inventory before and after the trial. RESULTS: The AA group reported greater FSI (but, as hypothesized, not other sexual behavior) frequency, an effect most prominent in subjects not cohabiting with their sexual partner, and in women. The AA but not placebo group also experienced a decrease in Beck Depression scores. CONCLUSIONS: AA appears to increase FSI, and the differential benefit to noncohabitants suggests that a central activation or disinhibition, rather than peripheral mechanism may be responsible.



Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2002 Jan;159(3):319-24. Epub 2001 Nov 20.

A randomized controlled trial of high dose ascorbic acid for reduction of blood pressure, cortisol, and subjective responses to psychological stress.

Brody S, Preut R, Schommer K, Schurmeyer TH.

Center for psychomatic and Psychobiological Research, University of Trier, Trier, Germany. stuartbrody@hotmail.com

RATIONALE: Physiological responses to stress are considered disruptive to health. High-dose ascorbic acid has reduced indices of stress in laboratory animals. METHODS: We conducted a randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled 14-day trial of sustained-release ascorbic acid (60 healthy young adults; 3 x1000 mg/day Cetebe) and placebo (60 healthy young adults) for reduction of blood pressure, cortisol, and subjective response to acute psychological stress (Trier Social Stress Test, TSST, consisting of public speaking and mental arithmetic). Six subjects from each group were excluded. RESULTS: Compared to the placebo group, the ascorbic acid group had less systolic blood pressure (an increase of 23 versus 31 mmHg), diastolic blood pressure, and subjective stress responses to the TSST; and also had faster salivary cortisol recovery (but not smaller overall cortisol response). Cortisol response to 1 microg ACTH, and reported side-effects during the trial did not differ between groups. Plasma ascorbic acid level at the end of the trial but not pre-trial was associated with reduced stress reactivity of systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood pressure, and subjective stress, and with greater salivary cortisol recovery. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with high-dose sustained-release ascorbic acid palliates blood pressure, cortisol, and subjective response to acute psychological stress. These effects are not attributable to modification of adrenal responsiveness



http://www.nutrition.../content/3/1/35
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#21 health_nutty Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:California

Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:05 AM

Nothing's worse than Krillin with authoritah!
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#22 ageless Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:33 PM

This thread makes me ill.
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#23 krillin Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

  • Location:USA

Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:38 PM

What do you mean ?


http://www.imsdb.com...akovasaurs.html

DOI 2
Little boy, we're making you an honorary Department of Interior person. So now, you are officially in charge of South Park's fish and wildlife. You have authority over all of them.

CARTMAN
I have authoriteh?

DOI 2
That's right. And people must respect it.

CARTMAN
Well, that should be fine, just fine.

DOI 2
Fine, just fine.

CARTMAN
Fine.

STAN
Oh, no! Nothing's worse than Cartman with authoritah!
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#24 mirian Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 18 June 2007 - 10:11 PM

This thread makes me ill.


Then, don't look at this thread. It's probably above your head! Everybody here knows you use AOR Ortho-Core that why your getting upset. Your favorite multivitamin that you said on another thread quote," Hell no." That you're not going to stop taking AOR Ortho-Core. So, stop putting your two cents in on this thread unless you have something useful to add and isn't rude.

Even though, many people on this website use AOR multivitamins. AOR uses the undesirable form chromium subject of a thread named: chromium picolinate:

http://www.imminst.o...=0

Edited by mirian, 19 June 2007 - 12:26 AM.

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#25 mirian Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 02:55 AM

mirian, nobody here gives enough of a shit about AOR to wade through your text spam to defend it.


First of all, I wasn't talking to you, and you shouldn't be using profanity on here.
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#26 mirian Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 03:43 AM

What is that a threat now? You're welcome for the advice I gave on the other thread on your regimen.
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#27 woly Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 04:48 AM

whered all mirians posts go?
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#28 mike250 Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 05:24 AM

must have been deleted.
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#29 mirian Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 05:35 AM

I deleted my own posts here. I just get ridiculed for them! I'll keep my knowledge to myself. Evidently, this website is full of people that really don't want to learn from one another. So, many rude people on here.
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#30 woly Re: Perfect Multi Super Greens really best?

Posted 19 June 2007 - 06:31 AM

I think thats a shame. While i am at odds with most of the conclusions you make from your research, negative personal attacks do not help the cause of this place, which is to to provide an open forum to discuss different opinions without petty arguments between users.
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