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Resveratrol and SSRIs


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#1 rhc124

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 02:09 PM


I am a 41 year old male who has been taking 50mg of zoloft for many years now. Since I currently weigh about 200lbs one would consider this a low dose. Three months ago I began taking Natures Way 40mg RSV tablets daily. I did noticed a slight positive effect (a little more energy and was was more awake when I got up in the morning). After the Natures Way ran out I decided to up my intake of RSV and I purchased RevGenetic's 300mg (50%). I have been on this for about three weeks.

I began taking the 300mg RSV in the morning, this is when I usually take my Zoloft. Right form the start I noticed an a significant increase in anxiety, which would start about two hours after taking the tablets. Although the anxiety would subside during the day it was still much higher than normal even by bedtime. After two days of this I decided to start taking the zoloft at night. This is my experience on this regime.

1) Increased fatigue.
2) About two hours after taking the RSV I become very sleepy and that feeling last for about 3 to 4 hours.
3) Slight increase of periods of anxiety throughout the day along with periods of feeling very good.

I have stopped taking the RSV on several days and the symptoms went away on those days.

Any ideas? Thanks in advanced.

#2 tintinet

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:16 AM

Higher purity t-resv. might be worth a shot. You might be experiencing a reaction to one of the accompanying substances in the 50% preparation.

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#3 niner

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:32 AM

I agree with tintinet, a higher purity RSV might help. But it might be the resveratrol itself; rsv is known to affect serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake. Have you tried stopping the zoloft entirely for a while? That would at least be an easy experiment to run.

#4 lucid

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 02:00 AM

I had a similar feeling (my feeling was actually euphoria) the first time I took Resv while on an SSRI, they subsided after a couple uses though. So it might be worth a shot to try resv a few more times and see if your experience changes.

#5 maxwatt

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 02:34 AM

or take the resveratrol at night....

#6 markymark

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 08:30 AM

I do not want to insult anybody, but I am astonished how many people are taking SSRIs.. in this ImmInst community

#7 ikaros

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:08 PM

I'd be careful here. As pointed out already in this forum, resveratrol acts also like an SSRI or more like an SNRI if you ask me. You might be causing too much serotonergic activity combining these two substances.
As lucid said the effects subside which would be predictable because the receptors adapt to the increased stimulation. So this can be a temporary phenomenon, although if it persists over 3 weeks, then quit one of them IMO.

or take the resveratrol at night....


If resveratrol really behaves similarily to Zoloft, then it wouldn't help. Besides the fatigue might implicate disturbed sleep for which SSRIs are notorious.

I do not want to insult anybody, but I am astonished how many people are taking SSRIs.. in this ImmInst community


Well aren't we living in a Prozac nation [glasses]

#8 rhc124

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 02:56 PM

Thanks for all of the thoughts. I have been off the Rsv for two days now and switched the zoloft to the morning. I am also trying to see how reducing it to 25mg will work. I will start taking the Rsv again in a couple of days at night. I'll keep everyone informed on how it goes.

I have thought about the batch of Resveratrol that I have but my wife is taking it with not problems (but she takes no SSRIs). If the new regime does not help then I will try to get some 99% and see how that works. Thanks

#9 niner

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 01:42 AM

I do not want to insult anybody, but I am astonished how many people are taking SSRIs.. in this ImmInst community

Why do you say that? Do you think that InnInst people shouldn't use them, or that no one should?

#10 markymark

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:45 AM

Why do you say that? Do you think that InnInst people shouldn't use them, or that no one should?


@Niner
Of course I do not say or mean that poeple around the ImmInst philosophy should not take SRRIs. This would be rather stupid.
If somebody suffers from a serious depresive crisis, or let's say has indeed the diagnosis: "endogenous depression" perhaps with a suicidal component, antidepressives are valuable tools in the hands of neurologists/psychiatrists.

BUT,

Given the fact that mood swings or borderline depressive symptoms might be sucessfully tackled with 5-HTP (200 to 500 mg/day) and/or low-dose Lithium, after analysis of serum serotonine - and lithium levels (Yes, there are "normal values for these two), I feel that people are switching to often to SSRIs and other antideprssive prescription drugs.
The new findings about polymorphisms in the enzymes, tryptophan hydroxylase one and two, clearly point to the fact that there might be a "serotonine deficiency syndrome"
If serum serotonine is low AND symptoms of a serotonin deficiency syndrome are present, it is worth trying pharmacological grade 5-HTP and low-dose lithium (lithium orotate 120 mg = approx. 4 mg elemental lithium)

It is again the fact, that the orphan drug 5-HTP does not offer enought profit for manufactureres of drugs, in order to set up large scale trials.
I recommend the excellent review by Turner al al.: Serotonin a la carte: Supplementation with the serotonin precursor 5-HTP, Pharmacology & Therapeutics 109 (2006) 325-338.
I have it as PDF, if someone is interested... send mail

But again it was a somehow spontanious statement, which I have made.
Regs.
MM

#11 kottke

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 04:23 PM

I dont know why more poeple don't take pharmaceutical grade St Johns Wort. It works on DA, NE, GABA, and 5-HT and doesn't give me any sort of cognitive problems at all, nor have i seen any anecdotal evidence of it. In fact, if anything, it increased my speech speed and computational skills. Taking it occasionally when in a hyper cholinergic or dopamanirgic state or less or non emotional state i might add, really knocks me right out of it in about an hour or two. That's the beauty of its short term and longterm actions.

I can attest to the to similar symptoms as you rhc124 with at just 100mgs resveratrol daily from country life added with SJW. You may want to give it a week trial or counteract the serotonin with some acetylcholine precursors such as choline.... that can get complicated

You could also take less zoloft and more resveratrol. However, you would have to make sure its ok with your Dr. and that you have a steady supply of resveratrol (which could become expensive).

#12 ortcloud

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 04:44 AM

Good point, there are alot of options out there. Some people blindly stick to pharmaceuticals, but in here people are more open minded and open to supplements so you would think they would be leaning more towards alt supplements. I think it should come down to whatever works best. For some 5-htp doesnt work, and that goes for all supplements, so I guess if the person has given everything a chance and the ssris work best then maybe that is what they should go with, maybe some of the people in here on ssris have done this and that is why they are on ssris.

Other recommendations would be Sam-e, fish oil, preferably several grams of high purity EPA only fish oil. L-Tryptophan (yes, its back) Magnesium.
Or you might have an issue that can be resolved permanently and you could try alternative therapies like EFT, TIR, etc.
Or even possibly removing amalgams and chelating mercury out of the brain has helped some recover dramatically.

#13 rhc124

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 04:24 AM

Update, I have waited several month on this as I have tired different things. Since I first posted I slowly took myself off of Zoloft but I still experienced the anxiety after taking my 300mg of resveratrol. For some reason I decided to take the RES at lunch, in addition to morning, to see what would happen, since the anxiety seemed to start several hours after taking the Res. Well it seemed to help. Then I started taking the res three times a day, morning, lunch and at dinner. I have been doing this for about two months and the anxiety is gone. So now I am taking 900mg per day. Any thoughts? Thanks

#14 craigb527

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 04:42 AM

Whatever works. If thats what you feel best with, why not? If you are worried about the fact you may be taking too much, I have taken way more and feel great. What about the St. John's wort, 5-htp... I don't know much about srris, except that they make you dependant on them. Also, with the res did you switch to 99% pure? Also, I recall feeling some anxiety the second day I took a large dose of res, after I had taken a fat burner. Don't know if they had anything to do with each other.

#15 rabagley

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 04:44 AM

Well, if resveratrol acts as an SNRI or SSRI (or both), then anxiety is normal while your body is adjusting it's feedback mechanism to the new neurotransmitter levels. Since things appear to have settled down for you. If you want to raise the dose again, you're probably in good shape.

A question for you: do you find that resveratrol has an anti-depressant effect for you? As in, an effective substitute for the Zoloft?

#16 craigb527

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 04:59 AM

Well, if resveratrol acts as an SNRI or SSRI (or both), then anxiety is normal while your body is adjusting it's feedback mechanism to the new neurotransmitter levels.  Since things appear to have settled down for you.  If you want to raise the dose again, you're probably in good shape.

A question for you: do you find that resveratrol has an anti-depressant effect for you?  As in, an effective substitute for the Zoloft?


Maybe stacking antidepressants caused your anxiety. Is there anything resveratrol doesn't do?? Strange.

RED WINE MOLECULES:  ANTIDEPRESSANT EFFECTS DISCOVERED

Wine makers often appear to be in a good mood, and researchers in Spain now indicate why.  Red wine molecules known as resveratrol appear to work in a similar fashion to commonly used antidepressant drugs.  Resveratrol exhibits similar biological action to drugs like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Tofranil and Celexa.  Well, vintners could have told the researchers this long ago.  They didn’t need scientific proof.


link http://www.knowledge...ssants-red.html

#17 rhc124

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 01:44 PM

Resveratrol does seem to have antidepressant effects in my experience. Still if I miss one of my three doses I can detect a change in either anxiety or depression. I am going to wait another two months before I start changing anything since what I am doing now seems to work.

The Res that I am taking it the 50% from RevGenetics.

#18 rabagley

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 04:16 PM

Thanks for the information re anxiety and depression with resveratrol. This stuff really does seem to be the wonder drug of this decade.

You'll have difficulty increasing your dose from 900mg/day with the 50% stuff. Most people report accumulative effects of the emodin (an herbal laxative that's also part of the knotweed extract) when using higher doses of the 50% resveratrol.

#19 tintinet

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

And yet, it seems the mood elevating effects reported to occur with resveratrol supplementation appear to occur with use of the less pure extracts, leading to speculation the predominant mood elevating effects may be due to substances in the extract other than resveratrol.

#20 rhc124

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 04:14 AM

Interesting, I have not heard that before. I wonder if it is something in the Knotweed. Would resveratrol from grapes be different? I did read some research somewhere that Res is a slight maoi A. I think it had some other effects as well, such as increased serotonin but I can't remember exactly. Maybe someone can find the research and post.

So far I am the only one that I know of or have heard of that has had this experience. Would love to hear from others if they are out there.

#21 tintinet

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 11:40 AM

When I first began taking higher doses of trans-resveratrol (about 500 mg/qd up from ~100 mg/qd), I felt hypo manic, calm, confident, almost pompous as well as physically terrific. This effect has diminished, at least subjectively, although I now take anywhere from 2-5 grams of trans-resveratrol/day.) Never experienced anxiety.

#22 krillin

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 06:10 PM

Interesting, I have not heard that before. I wonder if it is something in the Knotweed. Would resveratrol from grapes be different? I did read some research somewhere that Res is a slight maoi A. I think it had some other effects as well, such as increased serotonin but I can't remember exactly. Maybe someone can find the research and post.


Niner posted this back in February.

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2006 Jun 2;344(2):688-95. Epub 2006 Apr 17.
Inhibitory effects of cis- and trans-resveratrol on noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine uptake and on monoamine oxidase activity.
Yanez M, Fraiz N, Cano E, Orallo F.
Departamento de Farmacologia, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Santiago de Compostela, Santiago de Compostela (La Coruna), Spain.

This study investigated for the first time the potential effects of cis- and trans-resveratrol (c-RESV and t-RESV) on noradrenaline (NA) and 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) uptake by synaptosomes from rat brain, on 5-HT uptake by human platelets, and on monoamine oxidase (MAO) isoform activity. Both c-RESV and t-RESV (5-200 microM) concentration-dependently inhibited the uptake of [3H]NA and [3H]5-HT by synaptosomes from rat brain and the uptake of [3H]5-HT by human platelets. In both experimental models, t-RESV was slightly more efficient than c-RESV. Furthermore, in synaptosomes from rat brain, the RESV isomers were less selective against [3H]5-HT uptake than the reference drug fluoxetine (0.1-30 microM). On the other hand, both c-RESV and t-RESV (5-200 microM) concentration-dependently inhibited the enzymatic activity of commercial (human recombinant) MAO isoform (MAO-A and MAO-B) activity, c-RESV being slightly less effective than t-RESV. In addition, both RESV isomers were slight but significantly more selective against MAO-A than against MAO-B. Since the principal groups of drugs used in the treatment of depressive disorders are NA/5-HT uptake or MAO inhibitors, under the assumption that the RESV isomers exhibit a similar behaviour in humans in vivo, our results suggest that these natural polyphenols may be of value as structural templates for the design and development of new antidepressant drugs with two important biochemical activities combined in the same chemical structure: NA/5-HT uptake and MAO inhibitory activity.

PMID: 16631124

#23 rhc124

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 12:16 AM

Update. As stated above in a previous post, I was taking Res three times a day at a dose of 300mg per serving which worked wonders for my depression and anxiety. I have been having some joint pain issues (posted on another topic) and decided to drop to Res for about a week to see what would happen. Well I made it about two days when I had to get back on the res because anxiety and depression came back. Well so gos that test.

Also, I have switched to one large dose in the morning (greater than 1g). Since starting this I have not had any problems with anxiety in the afternoon like I did at 300mg.

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#24 stillalive

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:52 PM

interesting topic. But do you guys think that combining 5HTP and reservatrol would be more safe than SSRI and reservatrol?




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