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eye floaters


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#1 ajnast4r

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 12:30 PM


for those that dont know what floats are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floater

Posted Image




i have a floater in the center my left eye and its really starting to bug the hell out of me, as since its in the center of my eye it appears exactly where i am focusing... this is a super pain in the ass when im trying to read or study.
anyone else have these?

#2 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 03:02 PM

I have them, but I don't usually notice them. If I try to notice them I usually can, but it wouldn't make sense to obsess about them. I used to think it was bacteria on my eye and I thought everyone had it, but wikipedia says it is just junk particle debris within my "vitreous humour."

Your case seems to be worse so I wouldnt know what to tell you, other than it seems pretty common. It says floaters tend to float downward out of the center of vision when sitting up straight or standing, so try that and don't concentrate on them. The treatments look like way more trouble than they're worth.

#3 Live Forever

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 04:27 PM

Yeah, I get them every once in awhile. Actually I think they are always there, but I just choose to ignore them. If I concentrate hard I can see them. If they ever start to bug me, maybe I will try to do something about them, but I have more important things to worry about at the moment.

#4 Mind

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:39 PM

I have them too. They got better over the last couple of years as my diet improved. More of a paleo-diet rich in nutrients. Less empty calories and sugar. Just anecdotal, not sure if there is any scientific basis behind it. Maybe the floaters got better for some other reason.

#5 Athanasios

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:00 PM

When I was young i had very high fevers. I had a bunch of tests ran on me, but nobody could figure out the cause. Much later an eye doctor told me it was due to parasites in my eyes that also created some scarring (my floaters).

#6 jerpoint

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:22 AM

I have a long history of eye floaters. (It runs in the family) They tend to get worse as you get older. Your eyes are mostly solid when you are young and they slowly liquify as you get older.

If you do not usually see them, the most important thing to look for is a detached retina. If the eye gets damaged, blood will enter the eye in the form of floaters. That is what happened to my father last year.

If it persists, I would say that it is better to see your doctor about it. It is better to be safe than sorry.

#7 wayside

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 03:08 AM

If I have one that is bugging me, I roll my eyes a few times as fast as I can. This causes things to move around inside my eye and the floater will generally move somewhere where it doesn't bother me.

#8 edward

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 03:19 AM

Yep, I have them too but only in my left eye. My right eye is perfectly clear. Which makes me think that its not a problem with diet or nutrients etcetera (or else both eyes would be affected) so I'm thinking it is not something that we can do much about.

Mostly I don't notice them accept for when I drive, as the wikipedia article said the backdrop of a blue sky makes them noticeable. And yes they drive me nuts sometimes, I was wondering what they were and then I saw this posting and now realize that its a common issue and not something to worry about.

One interesting possibility is that I had Lasik surgery (which worked great for my vision) about 6 years ago and I never noticed the "floaters" in my left eye until the year following the surgery. Maybe its coincidence but it makes me think that some particle of dust or foreign matter got into my left eye during surgery when they peel open the cornea to laser it and caused the problem. I wonder how many people with floater issues have had Lasik or RK or some other eye surgery.

#9 ajnast4r

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:48 PM

If I have one that is bugging me, I roll my eyes a few times as fast as I can. This causes things to move around inside my eye and the floater will generally move somewhere where it doesn't bother me.


i do the same thing too lol

#10 shifter

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:00 PM

Sometimes I have had them after a sleep. However I can put my fingertip on it and it comes off on my finger. I dont have to touch my eye to do it as the floater likes to stick on my finger better than staying on my eye.

Haven't had them bug me in a while though.

#11 Live Forever

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:03 PM

Sometimes I have had them after a sleep. However I can put my fingertip on it and it comes off on my finger. I dont have to touch my eye to do it as the floater likes to stick on my finger better than staying on my eye.

Haven't had them bug me in a while though.

lol.
shifter, I think you are talking about eye boogers. Those are something completely different.

#12 graatch

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:37 AM

"Just don't look, just don't look"

Okay, I'm going to post something that Bill White, author of the ... dextromethorphan FAQ ... and also a generally brilliant individual, wrote on another forum. He's writing about HPPD but also about floaters and perceptual "errors" ... take what you can from this:

What you're describing sounds like HPPD -- hallucinogen persisting perceptual disorder. Nobody's sure why it happens, but what's going on is you've become aware of the intermediate stages of visual processing. It's *not* brain damage, just a learned effect.

Normally we filter out the noise and weird patterns in our vision -- we grow up with it there all the time so we learn not to pay attention to it. My suspicion is that psychedelic drugs can make people notice it and pay attention to it, and the more you pay attention to it, the stronger it becomes (some psychedelics may enhance this learning process in the visual cortex). But the point is everyone *sees* this shit, it's just most people filter it out and don't notice it, the same way they don't notice seeing their nose (close one eye and you'll see it), or the white blood cells moving in their retinal capillaries (look up at a deep blue sky and you'll see them), or the scratches on their corneas (which most people have), or their retinal blind spot.

Some people think tinnitus -- ringing in your ears -- is the same way: everyone has ringing in their ears, most people just haven't paid attention and noticed it, but the more you pay attention the worse it gets.

There's no real treatment for it -- antianxiety meds for people who freak out about it -- except to not pay attention. I've had it, by the way. What I did was to pay attention to how it "feels" different to focus on the different layers of visual processing. For example when I'm paying attention to what I'm actually seeing it feels like my vision is "pushed forward", when I pay attention to the noise and afterimages and motion trails and wiggling walls and all that it feels like my vision is "in the middle", and when I'm seeing things in my imagination it feels like my vision is "pulled back".

Once I associated a feeling with the different attentional states, it was much easier to change where my attention was. After spending a few months training myself to move my attention, and then forcing myself to keep my vision "pushed forward" and pay attention to the outside world -- and it helped to avoid looking at certain things like even-toned walls, certain patterns, etc -- it got much, much better. Now I don't even notice it except when I want to.

I had to stay off drugs (all drugs including alcohol) for awhile, too, to make it easier to learn how to change it. Some people have to stay sober permanently, but once I learned how to consciously move my attention I never had a problem even after tripping again. Maybe I'm just lucky tho.

If learning how to move your attention through different stages of visual processing doesn't work, do everything you can to not pay attention to it. Listen to music. Watch TV or movies. Hang out with friends. Play video games. Read. Anything that makes it easier to keep your mind off it.

It's not usually dangerous, if you're ever in a situation where you *must* pay attention your brain will do its job. But it can be distracting as hell.

#13 wayside

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 02:24 PM

If I'm imagining the floaters, why can my eye doctor see them too?

#14 ajnast4r

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 03:26 PM

i actually do suffer a bit from HPPD, but its nothing thats ever bothered me. i've always considered it a normal consequence of hallucinogen use.

what im complaining about is defiantly a little black speck in my eye, not imagined. its right in the center, and moves where my eye moves... which has started to make reading a pain in the ass, since i have to roll my eye back every 15 minutes to get rid of it.


on a very very odd note, ive noticed the floater is more black (than the normal clear) and WAY more prevalent and annoying after i drink coffee.

ive also noticed too much coffee will somewhat drastically increase my nearsightedness.

#15 Shepard

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 01:16 AM

I remember this being discussed once before, and I think bilberry was said to have alleviated some of them for atleast one poster. But, I"m not 100% on that.

#16 Matt

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:19 PM

I developed lots and lots and lots and lots of floaters not long after I took cipro that gave me 50+ symptoms (of which I'm 95% better from). My vision in both eyes is full of them. Everyone told me I'd get them because of cipro, and I sure did! They are actually very small and don't really bother me much, so I'm hoping they eventually go away somewhat. I did have perfect vision prior to the antibiotic as well... Unfortunately for me it wasn't the only vision symptom as I also had eye flashes, Lines and zig zag things appearing, Floaters. Static vision (like bad TV signal), Right eye not adapting from light to dark, retention of colors (like if I look at a screen and look at something white the color would still be there for seconds), and the weirdest one of all was many times my vision seemed like it literally crashed... like a computer crash for about a second. Freaky stuff!

All better but those damn floaters!

Edited by Matt, 07 June 2008 - 10:30 PM.


#17 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 12:05 AM

Perhaps Lycopene would help as well? (since Lycopene prevents macular degeneration)

#18 gashinshotan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:20 AM

I dont know if this is the same thing, but do you guys also notice particles moving in a triangular pattern when you look in the sky during a clear and sunny day? Or when you look at a white piece of paper? I see this all the time and it's completely uniform throughout my entire vision and consistent in size and movement pattern. The particles have no color at all and are very tiny but I can see them because they move in a pattern that reminds me of the recycle symbol Posted Image.

#19 ajnast4r

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:25 PM

I dont know if this is the same thing, but do you guys also notice particles moving in a triangular pattern when you look in the sky during a clear and sunny day? Or when you look at a white piece of paper? I see this all the time and it's completely uniform throughout my entire vision and consistent in size and movement pattern. The particles have no color at all and are very tiny but I can see them because they move in a pattern that reminds me of the recycle symbol


YES i always see the same thing when i look at the sky... i always just assumed it was blood-material moving through the capillaries in the eyes

#20 edward

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 05:37 AM

I happened to see this in a write up on Trivastal (Piribedil) on the airsealed website. The first I have seen of a drug that among other things helps eye floaters. Now I'm skeptical as I dont think diet, drugs, supplements or anything can really get these things out (yeah I think there is some particle or defect in the actual eye) but anyways.


In cerebral aging, by correcting the dopamine deficit of the postsynaptic D2/D3 receptors of the mesocortical and mesolimbic pathways, TRIVASTAL L.A. provides an effective treatment of cognitive disorders in the elderly. Indeed, TRIVASTAL L.A., compared with placebo and reference cerebral vasodilators, leads to significant improvement of disorders which make up the clinical picture of cerebral dopamine deficiency: attention, concentration, and memory, as well as mood disorders. Recently, an Indian study on TRIVASTAL L.A. has demonstrated a significant global cognitive improvement (Mini-Mental State) versus placebo in patients with mild cognitive impairment. Furthermore, TRIVASTAL L.A.'s additional alpha 2-noradrenergic property reinforces its positive impact on cognitive and motor functions. In addition, TRIVASTAL L.A. also provides an effective dopamine impulse with additional noradrenergic reinforcement in the ENT and ophthalmic manifestations of ageing dopamine deficiency. Thus, TRIVASTAL L.A. significantly improves vertigo, tinnitus, hypoacusis. It also significantly improves visual acuity, floaters, and contrast sensitivity.
By reinforcing the noradrenergic transmission, TRIVASTAL L.A. may prevent distractibility by irrelevant stimuli. Signals are better perceived and better understood by patients, who are thus more attentive and intellectually alert, with only 1 tablet once a day, and 2 tablets in severe cases.

edit: I ordered some last week, mainly because my prolactin levels came back a little high (despite my low dose modafinil and deprenyl) and the doc was going to prescribe a low dose of bromocriptine or cabergoline but from what I have read there are some heart issues with those drugs not to mention they work the opposite way on the a2 receptor effectively shutting down some norepinephrine and perhaps making one sleepy, which I dont need since you are suppose to take them in the AM. So I thought Id give Trivastal a try... I'll let you all know if my floaters in my left eye also go away. (I dont think they will but stranger things have happened)

Edited by edward, 09 June 2008 - 05:43 AM.


#21 Matt

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:28 AM

I thought I'd update you on my floaters.

They have 99% gone... how was this possible in just the space of 3 months? I had clusters of them falling down my vision looking like cells. First of all I just learned to ignore them, now I look for them (and you should be able to see them in this case) on very bright days and can't really see anything no more. Amazing!

#22 edward

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:14 AM

I thought I'd update you on my floaters.

They have 99% gone... how was this possible in just the space of 3 months? I had clusters of them falling down my vision looking like cells. First of all I just learned to ignore them, now I look for them (and you should be able to see them in this case) on very bright days and can't really see anything no more. Amazing!


Interesting, to what do you attribute this?

I tried Trivastal mentioned in my last post on this topic (not for eye floaters, for mildly elevated prolactin and cognitive enhancement etc. as I am always the willing guinea pig). Its a weird drug, no effect on eye floaters which don't really bother me most of the time, they are more of a curiosity.

Edited by edward, 27 July 2008 - 04:15 AM.


#23 brokenportal

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 05:32 AM

I tried to tell people at my old job about floaters once but they were all like "whuuu? whuuu? what are you talking about, are you crazy, god!@" God I hate flippant fallacious people that dont think about anything and who talk pretty much to hear words come out of their mouths.

Anyways, I wondered what they were, it was weird to see. I spotted them laying in the park looking up into a clear blue sky. Every time you try to focus on them they scurry away, you can never get a beam on them. Did you see that family guy where Stewie talks about it? Its hilarious. He says something like, "oh squiggly thing in my eye, why must you shy away, every time I go to look at you you dash away, oh squiggly thing in my eye." or something like that.

#24 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 08:20 AM

I remember when I was a child and thougt I saw bacteria when looking in the sky on a sunny day. But later I found out it was floaters... They are actually very similar to real microorganisms.......

#25 Matt

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:39 PM

First of all the cause of my floaters might be different to yours. I am certain cipro caused mine as it was predicted by several others who had the same symptoms caused by cipro. And they told me even before I got them at what month I would get them after I took cipro and they were spot on. But I'm different from them in that I have somehow managed to get rid of them all. I just looked up into the bright blue sky and can't see no floaters at all and I spend 5 minutes trying to spot them lol.

btw; Broken portal is right about when you try and focus on them they zoom out of your vision.

Myhypothesis was that cipro caused a breakdown in collagen the microvascular structure of the eye cause leaky vessels in which red blood cells escape, which leads to many floaters but are eventually absorbed back over time. The other one is that cipro is known to break down collagen breaks into fibrils which are known as floaters. If you haven't read cipro causes induction of MMP's by upto 100x in tissues if concentration is high enough. I have other reasons to believe this because of several other symptoms that is likely due to breakdown of collagen in the vascular structure, skin, nails, tendons etc...

The only thing I've done in the last week or so is FAST a lot, not because I wanted to but because I'm totally broke and out of food until I get my next pay from work lol.

Edited by Matt, 27 July 2008 - 02:41 PM.


#26 REGIMEN

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 02:39 AM

http://www.itmonline...ts/floaters.htm

"Just as modern medicine recognizes the vitreous fluid as an original fluid of the developing eye, the Chinese doctrine views it as part of the "original water" associated with the kidney, but located in the upper body (referred to as heavenly original water; tian yizhi shui). It degrades by the weakening of the kidney and the invasion of pathogenic influences, such as internal heat from the liver/gallbladder and external wind-heat."

========================

"KIDNEY ESSENCE AND THE HUMAN BODY: An Exploration of Chinese Embryology" by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon


[url="http://"%20%20<a%20href="http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:cxaXmx5zr5gJ:neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/chi-files/TCVM_Herbs/TCVM-Liver/TCM%2520Liver%2520Disease.ppt+tcm+liver+heat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a""%20target="_blank">http://74.125.95.104...Xmx...firefox-a"</a>"] "TCM Liver Disease: * Liver Physiology, * Liver Pathology, * Cases" by Roger M Clemmons, DVM, PhD, CVA, CDR, IRC, USPHS, Aso. Prof Neurology & Neurosurgery, University of Florida[/url]

#27 Ben

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 03:10 PM

http://www.itmonline...ts/floaters.htm

"Just as modern medicine recognizes the vitreous fluid as an original fluid of the developing eye, the Chinese doctrine views it as part of the "original water" associated with the kidney, but located in the upper body (referred to as heavenly original water; tian yizhi shui). It degrades by the weakening of the kidney and the invasion of pathogenic influences, such as internal heat from the liver/gallbladder and external wind-heat."

========================

"KIDNEY ESSENCE AND THE HUMAN BODY: An Exploration of Chinese Embryology" by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon


[url="http://"%20%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:cxaXmx5zr5gJ:neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/chi-files/TCVM_Herbs/TCVM-Liver/TCM%2520Liver%2520Disease.ppt+tcm+liver+heat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a"%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3Ehttp://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:cxaXmx...firefox-a"%3C/a%3E"] "TCM Liver Disease: * Liver Physiology, * Liver Pathology, * Cases" by Roger M Clemmons, DVM, PhD, CVA, CDR, IRC, USPHS, Aso. Prof Neurology & Neurosurgery, University of Florida[/url]


I thought this was a science forum. Things change so quickly! :~ Oh and not that it's really my place to say but why resurrect a 6 month old topic for that?

Edited by Ben - Aus, 08 November 2008 - 03:12 PM.


#28 REGIMEN

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:24 AM

http://www.itmonline...ts/floaters.htm

"Just as modern medicine recognizes the vitreous fluid as an original fluid of the developing eye, the Chinese doctrine views it as part of the "original water" associated with the kidney, but located in the upper body (referred to as heavenly original water; tian yizhi shui). It degrades by the weakening of the kidney and the invasion of pathogenic influences, such as internal heat from the liver/gallbladder and external wind-heat."

========================

"KIDNEY ESSENCE AND THE HUMAN BODY: An Exploration of Chinese Embryology" by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon


[url="http://"%20%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:cxaXmx5zr5gJ:neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/chi-files/TCVM_Herbs/TCVM-Liver/TCM%2520Liver%2520Disease.ppt+tcm+liver+heat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a"%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3Ehttp://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:cxaXmx...firefox-a"%3C/a%3E"] "TCM Liver Disease: * Liver Physiology, * Liver Pathology, * Cases" by Roger M Clemmons, DVM, PhD, CVA, CDR, IRC, USPHS, Aso. Prof Neurology & Neurosurgery, University of Florida[/url]


I thought this was a science forum. Things change so quickly! :~ Oh and not that it's really my place to say but why resurrect a 6 month old topic for that?


Subhuti Dharmananda, PhD.
Founder of ITM : www.itmonline.org
Check out the massive number of articles he has written at this site. I think his BS in Biology and the high quality of his prolific writing incorporating both allopathic and TCM perspectives gives him some credit in the "science" department.

Roger M Clemmons, DVM, PhD, CVA, CDR, IRC, USPHS, Aso. Prof Neurology & Neurosurgery, University of Florida
What more needs to be said about this one? Too far off his rocker, for you?

=================

I resurrected this 6 month old thread because my contribution is relevant. It looks like quite a number of people are afflicted by eye floaters. I thought many of them would like to know how developed their condition has become to have incurred such a symptom... and offering relevant information fr them begin to understand the nature of their condition from a medical paradigm knowing of the etiology of this symptom and then also fully competent in treating it. Seeking help is up to them and I'm available for questions if anyone's interested. Thus is the nature of a forum; not just a "flavor of the moment"/ "in the holy strictures of the fashion conveyor belt" approach to information dissemination your call to order expects of all present to arbitrarily pay obeisance to these unstated rules stemming only from 4chan-style impish agitation. And to think 6 months is old enough to garner any poke at all in this vein of so flatulently-defined an "infraction".

:~---back atcha.

Edited by REGIMEN, 09 November 2008 - 06:15 AM.

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#29 REGIMEN

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:24 AM

http://www.tcmdiscov...8828162532.html

Pressure points for massage to improve and sustain vision.

Edited by REGIMEN, 09 November 2008 - 06:44 AM.


#30 REGIMEN

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 06:11 AM

http://www.tcmdiscov...8828162532.html

Pressure points for massage to improve and sustain vision.



Here are the four acupressure points mentioned in the article above:

BL 2 : http://acuxo.com/mer...eridian=Bladder
BL 1 : http://acuxo.com/mer...eridian=Bladder
ST 1 : http://acuxo.com/mer...eridian=Stomach
Taiyang : http://www.tcmadviso...0791093945.html

The term "cun" is a measurement specific to each person and is merely the width of one of their central fingers (index, middle, or ring finger; all are generally the same on any one person).

For further clarification of point locations go to the following link and use the "Acumapper".
http://www.rootdown....intMapPage.aspx
BL 2 and BL 1 are listed as UB 2 and UB 1, respectively. (Bladder as opposed to Urinary Bladder)

Edited by REGIMEN, 11 November 2008 - 06:22 AM.





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