7 replies to this topic

[rfarris]

I really like phenibut, but I can only use it three or four times a week, or it quits working. So I need to take a pharmaceutical sleep aid once or twice a week.

My doctor suggested Lunesta and gave me some 2mg samples. The 2mg dose didn't help much -- it took me more than an hour to get to sleep and I still awakened every hour or two. I tried 4mg, and I got to sleep but it wasn't nearly as deep a sleep as phenibut.

My question is: Is Ambien stronger? Should I ask for some Ambien samples? Or is Lunesta as good as it gets?

Thank you.

-- Rick

[doug123]

I really like phenibut, but I can only use it three or four times a week, or it quits working. So I need to take a pharmaceutical sleep aid once or twice a week.

My doctor suggested Lunesta and gave me some 2mg samples. The 2mg dose didn't help much -- it took me more than an hour to get to sleep and I still awakened every hour or two. I tried 4mg, and I got to sleep but it wasn't nearly as deep a sleep as phenibut.

My question is: Is Ambien stronger? Should I ask for some Ambien samples? Or is Lunesta as good as it gets?

Thank you.

-- Rick

Dear Rick,

Have you discussed this issue with your doctor yet? I'd start by making your doctor aware of everything you've been taking -- including phenibut; and that it seemed to be working for you. That might give him (or her) some perspective on how to treat you best.

I'm taking a quick look at the Lunesta's Patients Instructions for Use page and it indicates:

LUNESTA belongs to a group of medicines known as "hypnotics" or, simply, sleep medicines. There are many different sleep medicines available to help people sleep better. Insomnia is often transient and intermittent. It usually requires treatment for only a short time, usually 7 to 10 days up to 2 weeks. If your insomnia does not improve after 7 to 10 days of treatment, see your doctor, because it may be a sign of an underlying condition. Some people have chronic sleep problems that may require more prolonged use of sleep medicine. However, you should not use these medicines for long periods without talking with your doctor about the risks and benefits of prolonged use.

If you've already tried the drug for seven to ten days, and no luck, I guess it would probably sound like a good idea to consult your doctor to see if something else may work better. If a drug doesn't work on first administration, that might be for several reasons; for example, let's assume that Lunesta works on the GABA system; given that you've been taking a GABA agonist (which phenibut appears to be), that may change the effectiveness of the drug (I'm not saying Lunesta unnecessarily acts on the GABA system). It may be that Lunesta takes a couple of days to work for some individuals.

Have you tried meditating, praying (if you are religious), or exercising? My sleep seemed to improve when I began cardiovascular exercise on a regular basis. Even what you eat can affect the effectiveness of drugs; as I tried to illustrate here with the cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) scenario.

Take care.

[rfarris]

Yes, I've discussed it with my doctor. He doesn't know (and doesn't care) about phenibut. He thinks it would be fine to use Lunesta once a week. My research shows that both Lunesta and Ambien work on the GABA system.

My question is "Which of Lunesta and Ambien is the stronger drug?"

Phenibut makes me sleep like a rock -- usually four hours the first period, followed by a couple of two-hour sessions. The best Lunesta (at 4mg) does for me is 2-hour sessions.

Has anyone used them both?

-- Rick

[thegreatrowah]

rfarris, Ambien has been known to cause declines in both memory and cognition. Lunesta, however, is not known to, or at least not listed as having those effects. In addition, Lunesta is indicated for long-term treatment of insomnia, whereas Ambien is indicated for the short-term treatment of insomnia.

Edited by thegreatrowah, 30 September 2007 - 02:46 PM.

[spacey]

rfarris, Ambien has been known to cause declines in both memory and cognition.  Lunesta, however, is not known to, or at least not listed as having those effects.  In addition, Lunesta is indicated for long-term treatment of insomnia, whereas Ambien is indicated for the short-term treatment of insomnia.

Can you reference your claim of the memory and cognition impairments caused by Ambien use? This makes me a bit worried tbh, cause I've been using Ambien quite a few times recreationally and just to sleep

[thegreatrowah]

Certainly. Among the side effects listed for Ambien on Wikipedia, are "amnesia" and "impaired judgment and reasoning." That correlates with decreased cognition and memory loss.

[cmorera]

here is essential user testimony for ambien

http://www.topix.net...3E2FSAURH3M2U93

[deekz]

Lunesta is the better option. Not only does it not cause tolerance in long term studies, but also causes no significant rebound insomnia upon cessation. The normal dose for sleep onset and maintenance is 3mg. Ambien on the other hand has greater "knock out" potential, however, will do nothing for sleep maintenance (which is something you want.) Not only that, you will grow a tolerance to ambien and develop a nice case of rebound insomnia once you stop taking it (if taken it continuously) Phenibut may provide deep sleep, but it messes with sleep architecture. Although the sleep was deep, I don't feel rested in the morning or throughout the day. What you can try to do is take a lunesta with low dose phenibut to enhance the sleep maintenance aspect of it (shouldn't wreak too much havoc on sleep architecture, lunesta has been shown to keep it in tact.)