40 replies to this topic

[edward]

I wanted to get some idea when other people take this supplement as it has some issues with regards to the absorption of other nutrients.

Also are people primarily taking it to chelate iron and other metals or to boost natural killer cell action/ anti-cancer.

Edited by edward, 15 January 2008 - 06:53 AM.

[DukeNukem]

I take 500mg daily right before bed. I take it to primarily reduce iron, which also has an anti-cancer benefit (cancer growth requires iron to form new blood vessels--a process called angiogenesis).

http://jn.nutrition....ll/133/11/3778S

Bill Sardi is a big proponent if IP-6:

http://www.knowledge.....helation, IP6

http://www.knowledge.....on, Chelation

[Athanasios]

Duke, any reason for that particular dosage?

[DukeNukem]

It's the size of the pill. ;-)

I don't know what the optimal dosage would be for me, but this dosage is in the ballpark I've seen used in Japanese studies, where it's been most researched.

[edward]

I take 1000 mg before I go to bed also (only because that is the dosage recommended on the bottle, yeah I know how scientific of me). I am 6ft2 175 lbs so maybe this dosage is a little high. Regardless I also take it to reduce iron, but the increase in NK (natural killer) cells seems like a nice bonus. The reason for taking it right before I go to bed is only that this is a time when I'm not taking a bunch of other stuff and my stomach is in generally relatively empty (depending).

Obviously taking IP6 with magesium, zinc or other minerals would be problematic, but what do people think about it interfering with the absorption of things like herbs vitamins and other non mineral supplements and even drugs. Around this time I am also taking Melatonin, Bacopa, Ashwaganda, Astragalus and sometimes Ambien.

This was asked in another thread but no one gave the guy an answer. http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=18337

edit: added link to old thread

Edited by edward, 16 January 2008 - 12:41 AM.

[quarter]

I was surfing the net looking for things to help with endurance and randomly found someone who claimed that this product: Phytic Acid Supp had significantly raised the red blood cell count of a number of athletes they had been coaching.

Anyways, since this appears to be IP-6 (I am not thinking about purchasing this product but might consider some bulk IP-6 powder) do any IP-6 users here have any opinion on whether or not this would have any value as an endurance booster?

The additional anti-cancer benefit would be a good bonus and something that will increase in importance in my supps regime in the future but for now my priority is for healthy ergogenic aids.

[edward]

I was surfing the net looking for things to help with endurance and randomly found someone who claimed that this product: Phytic Acid Supp had significantly raised the red blood cell count of a number of athletes they had been coaching.

Anyways, since this appears to be IP-6 (I am not thinking about purchasing this product but might consider some bulk IP-6 powder) do any IP-6 users here have any opinion on whether or not this would have any value as an endurance booster?

The additional anti-cancer benefit would be a good bonus and something that will increase in importance in my supps regime in the future but for now my priority is for healthy ergogenic aids.

Interesting, though I have no anecdotal evidence that either confirms or denies this. IP6 is one of those supplements I take because the research is positive but I feel nothing from it. Note I also take it at bed time with a bunch of "sleepy supplements" so even if their was an immediate increase in endurance well I wouldn't feel it. As far as a long term increase in endurance (which would make sense if it did increase red blood cell count, ala EPO) I haven't really felt that either, workouts have been improving at a normal rate. The only thing that really increased my endurance noticeably was Resveratrol and perhaps taking a bunch of caffeine before I ran.

[suspire]

Duke, Edward, are you guys still taking IP6 at the same doses/times you mentioned prior? I am planning on starting it and was curious whether you guys still felt the same way about IP6 and the dose levels.

[DukeNukem]

Duke, Edward, are you guys still taking IP6 at the same doses/times you mentioned prior? I am planning on starting it and was curious whether you guys still felt the same way about IP6 and the dose levels.

I still take it. You don't want to take it with other minerals because IP-6 can bind with them.

[suspire]

Duke, Edward, are you guys still taking IP6 at the same doses/times you mentioned prior? I am planning on starting it and was curious whether you guys still felt the same way about IP6 and the dose levels.

I still take it. You don't want to take it with other minerals because IP-6 can bind with them.

Thanks, Duke. So no minerals at time of IP6. Do you mean supplemental minerals or no foods whatsoever? I ask because I was looking at Bill Sardi's bit on IP6, who is often cited when it comes to IP6. I noticed he has IP6 in his product, Longevinex. However, he says to take Longevinex with meals, just not Vitamin C supplements. If so, wouldn't it be counter-productive to do so--to take his product with meals, because of the IP6? I figure he should know when to take IP6, but I can't reconcile the conflicting recommendations on IP6.

[DukeNukem]

Duke, Edward, are you guys still taking IP6 at the same doses/times you mentioned prior? I am planning on starting it and was curious whether you guys still felt the same way about IP6 and the dose levels.

I still take it. You don't want to take it with other minerals because IP-6 can bind with them.

Thanks, Duke. So no minerals at time of IP6. Do you mean supplemental minerals or no foods whatsoever? I ask because I was looking at Bill Sardi's bit on IP6, who is often cited when it comes to IP6. I noticed he has IP6 in his product, Longevinex. However, he says to take Longevinex with meals, just not Vitamin C supplements. If so, wouldn't it be counter-productive to do so--to take his product with meals, because of the IP6? I figure he should know when to take IP6, but I can't reconcile the conflicting recommendations on IP6.

I suspect in Longevinex that there's no enough IP-6 to worry about taking with food. In any case, the reason for taking RSV with food is because you what to take it with fat/oil. So, don't take it with food, but take it with coconut oil and/or dark chocolate.

IP-6 will definitely bind with supplemental minerals, so take it with an hour window on each side. You can take it at the same time you take Longevinex, if that's your RSV pill of choice.

[pycnogenol]

I take one (1) scoop of Jarrow's IP-6 powder at bedtime.

[suspire]

I take one (1) scoop of Jarrow's IP-6 powder at bedtime.

What's 1 scoop equal in mgs?

[pycnogenol]

I take one (1) scoop of Jarrow's IP-6 powder at bedtime.

What's 1 scoop equal in mgs?

1 scoop = 500 mg

[neogenic]

The effect on minerals, while maybe positive for Iron and other oxidants or potentially toxic metals is scary to think it could be robbing you of other much needed ones, as a chelator. It'd make sense to me to do it, like you might a cleanse or other chelation therapy, very short term, fairly high dose and then done. This could create all kind of deficiencies and imbalances. Just b/c you don't take it with something else that has minerals guarantees nothing. Every mineral salt has wildly different rates of absorption, bioavailability and interaction due to valences and transport with other minerals/nutrients. With trace minerals that are key, this could truly be overpowering. I am surprised at how many here use it. I still think the iron fear is a bit overblown, I wouldn't add it in supplemental form...that's logical, but that's a whole other debate. Big picture I don't think taking ip6 daily is sensible. I may be wrong, of course, but that's my thought process.

[pycnogenol]

Big picture I don't think taking ip6 daily is sensible. I may be wrong, of course, but that's my thought process.

I agree, that is why I take a low-dose (500 mg) of IP-6 at bedtime for a short period of time. I tend to err on the cautious side when it comes to my supplement usage.

[kismet]

Many may take it in a 5on/2off regimen, this used to be quite fashionable for all types of supplements, isn't it anymore?

[pycnogenol]

Many may take it in a 5on/2off regimen, this used to be quite fashionable for all types of supplements, isn't it anymore?

It is with me. I take the majority of my core supplements on a M-F schedule, laying off on weekends except for the basics.

[FunkOdyssey]

I don't take any IP6, my iron is low-normal and my ferritin is low-normal already. This seems like information you would want to keep tabs on before starting IP6 and periodically while using it.

If you accept that its an effective iron chelator, and that's why you're taking it, shouldn't you be actively tracking the results of this intervention? It would be like taking a statin drug without ever checking your cholesterol levels, because you read somewhere that "cholesterol is bad" (iron in this case).

[Skötkonung]

Hmm, that looks really promising for iron removal in individuals where iron overload is a problem. I have hemochromatosis, a genetic condition where the body absorbs iron at about 3 times the normal rate, and am always looking for ways to avoid phlebotomy treatment if possible (it makes me so tired). Since I am homozygous C282Y for the condition, my transferrin saturation tends to run high even when my ferritin levels are within normal range.

It appears IP6 is being used to treat hemochromatosis and could be effective at targeting iron absorption. I am surprised by hematologist has never mentioned this supplement. I will have to ask him about it's safety as I am wonderng if it could cause nutritional imbalances by chelating other metals found in the body.

"Supplemental IP6 may slow down the amount of iron being absorbed from the digestive tract, but only specially formulated drugs or blood loss can remove iron from the body."
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C517593.html

"Iron can also be removed by intravenous EDTA chelation therapy, or more conveniently and economically by the use of IP6 rice bran extract, available at health food stores or online (brands: Jarrow, Source Naturals, Purity Products). The consumption of IP6 rice bran extract on an empty stomach with water will chelate (remove) excess iron and other heavy metals from the liver, kidneys, gallbladder, brain, heart and other organs. IP6 does not remove iron from red blood cells. If IP6 is used excessively for long periods of time it could induce anemia, which would cause symptoms of fatigue, paleness, craving of acidic foods (tomatoes) and cold hands and feet."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi65.html

I'm curious, does anyone know of any studies that demonstrate lower than normal iron equates to increased longevity? Correlation doesn't always equal causation.

[mikeinnaples]

I take mineral type supplements in the morning (i.e. like my multi for example) and IP6 in the evening about an hour before bed. My thinking may be off regarding chelation, but I figure my body will use whatever it needs from the mornng supplements and my meals through out the day, and the IP6 will chelate whatever is left. Again .......my thoughts and reasoning on this may be off as my area of expertise is in software engineering, not this.

[sUper GeNius]

I wonder how effective this IP6 ally is in removing iron from the body. My mother has a disease called MDS, and lately she's been getting transfusions every few weeks. Evidently there is a risk of of iron overload, and they have deferoxamine that will help in needed. If IP6 is so great, why wouldn't she take that?

[FunkOdyssey]

I wonder how effective this IP6 ally is in removing iron from the body. My mother has a disease called MDS, and lately she's been getting transfusions every few weeks. Evidently there is a risk of of iron overload, and they have deferoxamine that will help in needed. If IP6 is so great, why wouldn't she take that?

Because she or her doctor or both don't know about it?

[sUper GeNius]

I wonder how effective this IP6 ally is in removing iron from the body. My mother has a disease called MDS, and lately she's been getting transfusions every few weeks. Evidently there is a risk of of iron overload, and they have deferoxamine that will help in needed. If IP6 is so great, why wouldn't she take that?

Because she or her doctor or both don't know about it?

It seems that no doctor knows it to be a good treatment for iron overload in MDS patients. It's mentioned nowhere that I can see on this site. I searched IP6 and phytic acid:

http://www.mds-foundation.org/

I tried some general google searches, found nothing. It's not like phytic acid is unknown. It's been known for ages that it inhibits iron absorption.

[ksbalaji]

In the part of the world where I live (south India), rice is the staple food. There is not much of a need to take rice bran extract separately. Further, people here take iron supplements instead of iron reducers!

[Pablo M]

If you accept that its an effective iron chelator, and that's why you're taking it, shouldn't you be actively tracking the results of this intervention? It would be like taking a statin drug without ever checking your cholesterol levels, because you read somewhere that "cholesterol is bad" (iron in this case).

A few things that are healthy (green tea and blueberries come to mind) also chelate iron, but like IP6 they only remove unbound iron. Tea can be a culprit in anemia, so perhaps we should add the recommendation to get regular blood work if you're taking high-dose tea polyphenols.

IP6 is just about as effective and cheap as you can get. I just got some powder and will be taking it and monitoring blood periodically.

[Pablo M]

In the part of the world where I live (south India), rice is the staple food. There is not much of a need to take rice bran extract separately. Further, people here take iron supplements instead of iron reducers!

I do find this an interesting contradiction. Mineral deficiencies in the developing world, while in the US we are over-mineralized. It's said that unleavened bread can induce a deficiency. I believe that phytic acid is lost when the rice is polished and bran removed, and do Indians not consume most of their rice as white rice?

[Athanasios]

An update on dosage. In one study low IP6 diets get around 400mg and high diets get 1800mg, so I upped my supp intake to 1250mg a day. Just ran into this thread in a search so thought I would write this out real quick, self-confirm if skeptical.

Also of note, however, is that IP6 supplementation is stronger in effect per dose than when present in diet.

Edited by cnorwood, 17 July 2009 - 01:47 AM.

[Sillewater]

An update on dosage. In one study low IP6 diets get around 400mg and high diets get 1800mg, so I upped my supp intake to 1250mg a day. Just ran into this thread in a search so thought I would write this out real quick, self-confirm if skeptical.

Could you post the location of the study? I take 1000g on my fasting days.

[APBT]

From the U of T MD Anderson Cancer Center

http://www.mdanderso...ition-ip-6.html