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Astragalus, Astragaloside IV


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#1411 missminni

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.
Because it was not that apparent when I first read the material (I tend to scan read) I wanted to point it out to others who might miss it too.


Personally, my feeling is that if Harvard uses due care and protects my privacy as diligently as they promise to, that there's greater risk of my DNA falling into the wrong hands when I put out the trash or eat in a public place. But, then again, it might depend on one's definition of "wrong hands." How about the Raelian sect or their company Clonaid? Seriously, however, laws and notions of privacy could change and police might some day be able to routinely search DNA databases for leads. Guess I got mixed feelings about that possibility but I'm still interested in participating.

Note that if they are trying to use informed consent to limit liability for negligence, that probably won't work any better than it does in the operating room.

Howard

protects my privacy as diligently as they promise to

where did they promise that?

#1412 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 08:52 PM

Only the first 10 agreed to be named.
All others in the program will remain anonymous.

A

#1413 missminni

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:22 PM

Only the first 10 agreed to be named.
All others in the program will remain anonymous.

A


That's questionable.
Read their consent form, and think again. Anonymity is not promised at all.
Although a reasonable attempt will be made to keep names from being published, there are
many more circumstances that could breech that. I would never sign this consent form.
It's frightening.
The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.
I'm attaching it as a pdf so all can read it before studying to pass the exams they require for
eligibility.

Attached Files



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#1414 Moonlitnight

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:36 PM

This alone would stop me from this testing:

Use of Cell Lines. Cell lines may be made available by the PGP to third parties
under agreements approved and entered into by the PGP without your additional notification or
consent. These agreements may permit your cell lines to be used for research, patient care,
commercial or other purposes, including genetic modification of the cells or mixing of human
and nonhuman cells in animal models. Neither you nor the PGP will be able to restrict or specify
the type of research or other purposes for which your cell lines will or will not be used. Other
than for purposes of cost recovery, the PGP will not license participant cell lines to any third
party for the financial gain or commercial profit of the PGP.

genetic modification of the cells or mixing of human
and nonhuman cells in animal models???

#1415 missminni

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:55 PM

This alone would stop me from this testing:

Use of Cell Lines. Cell lines may be made available by the PGP to third parties
under agreements approved and entered into by the PGP without your additional notification or
consent. These agreements may permit your cell lines to be used for research, patient care,
commercial or other purposes, including genetic modification of the cells or mixing of human
and nonhuman cells in animal models. Neither you nor the PGP will be able to restrict or specify
the type of research or other purposes for which your cell lines will or will not be used. Other
than for purposes of cost recovery, the PGP will not license participant cell lines to any third
party for the financial gain or commercial profit of the PGP.

genetic modification of the cells or mixing of human
and nonhuman cells in animal models???


Yes, that was an attention getter wasn't it?
and all the ways in which you might suffer from this information being public ...as in losing your job,
your medical coverage, your identity, and maybe even your personal freedom, to name but a few
that THEY point out. Things you never even thought of.
This is a lose lose for everybody but the PGP.

#1416 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:57 PM

Yes, so your cell lines will exist even after you are dead and buried.

Other than for purposes of cost recovery, the PGP will not license participant cell lines to any third party for the financial gain or commercial profit of the PGP.




I don't think its a lose lose for everybody including the PGP, as the PGP would simply have a library of cell lines that science can use to narrow down causes of human issues as well as having and discovering genetic variations that help people live longer (such as the Ashkenazi Jews)


If you don't want to share them for science... then you don't have to, just like you don't have to donate blood to blood banks, organs, or cord blood. I do get the feeling that the questions are to weed out the faint of heart on the subject.


I am excited about the project.


As for an Army of Super smart Niners... Hehehe... that would be something! Posted Image
A

#1417 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 12:06 AM

Yes, so your cell lines will exist even after you are dead and buried.

Other than for purposes of cost recovery, the PGP will not license participant cell lines to any third party for the financial gain or commercial profit of the PGP.



I don't think its a lose lose for everybody including the PGP, as the PGP would simply have a library of cell lines that science can use to narrow down causes of human issues as well as having and discovering genetic variations that help people live longer (such as the Ashkenazi Jews)

If you don't want to share them for science... then you don't have to, just like you don't have to donate blood to blood banks, organs, or cord blood. I do get the feeling that the questions are to weed out the faint of heart on the subject.

I am excited about the project.

As for an Army of Super smart Niners... Hehehe... that would be something! Posted Image
A


I didn't say it was a lose lose for PGP. I said for everyone but them.
It's wonderful for the researchers and their work, but there are far reaching ramifications that could
befall the participants. PGP doesn't underplay that fact. They are very straightforward about it.
Did you read the consent form? not the mini consent form, but the full one?

#1418 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:13 AM

Yes,

The creation of synthetic dna to place at a crime scene was the only one that made me think twice... then I realized that because the dna was public, I probably have a better defense than someone not having their dna made public...

Don't you hate it when super criminals decide to target you?

A

#1419 niner

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:53 AM

The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.

Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.

#1420 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:31 AM

Yes,

The creation of synthetic dna to place at a crime scene was the only one that made me think twice... then I realized that because the dna was public, I probably have a better defense than someone not having their dna made public...

Don't you hate it when super criminals decide to target you?

A




That specific possibility was not as disturbing as all the references made to cloning and the distinct possibility that identities would be revealed.

Since this was your suggestion for how to get your telomeres measured for free,
I guess I would rather pay $290 for the blood test than sign my dna away for unknown and perhaps nefarious purposes.

#1421 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:41 AM

The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.

Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.



The cost of free is often great. There's always a price to pay.
I just read that Spectracell does the test for $290. They have some interesting
information about how to increase teloimere length as well.
http://www.spectrace...lomere-testing/

#1422 Moonlitnight

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:09 AM

Miss Mini...thanks so much for that link. They accept blood from Life Labs Canada, right down the street from me. I'm half scared to find out the length of mine after hearing Dr. Nancy S.'s experience (finding out that hers were very short) but I'm going for it.

#1423 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:24 AM

Miss Mini...thanks so much for that link. They accept blood from Life Labs Canada, right down the street from me. I'm half scared to find out the length of mine after hearing Dr. Nancy S.'s experience (finding out that hers were very short) but I'm going for it.

Great. Don't worry if they're short there's lots you can do to lengthen them.
from Spectracel website:

1. Consumption of 10 servings of fresh and relatively uncooked fruits and vegetables, mixed fiber, monounsaturated fats, omega-3 fatty acids, cold water fish, and high quality vegetable proteins will help preserve telomere length.
In addition, it is advised to reduce total daily caloric intake and implement an exercise program. Fasting for 12 hours each night at least 4 days per week is recommended.

2.One should achieve ideal body weight and body composition with low body fat (less than 22 % for women and less than 16 % for men). Decreasing visceral fat is very important.
Regular aerobic and resistance exercise for at least one hour per day, sleeping for at least 8 hours per night, stress reduction, discontinuation of all tobacco products are strongly recommended.
Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy may decrease the rate of telomere loss.

3.Recent evidence suggests that a high quality and balanced multivitamin will also help maintain telomere length. Specifically, studies have linked longer telomeres with levels of vitamin E, vitamin C, vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acids
and the antioxidant resveratrol. In addition, homocysteine levels have been inversely associated with telomere length, suggesting that reducing homocysteine levels via folate and vitamin B supplementation may decrease the rate
of telomere loss. Similarly, conditions such as cardiovascular disease, insulin resistance, diabetes, hypertension, atherosclerosis and even dementia affect telomere length. Correcting subclinical nutritional deficiencies that may
contribute to such diseases is crucial for telomere maintenance.

4. What pharmacologic treatments are known to slow telomere aging?
  • Angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEI)
  • Angiotensin receptor blockers (ARB)
  • Renin Inhibitors
  • Statins
  • Possibly Calcium channel blockers
  • Possibly Serum aldosterone receptor antagonists
  • Possibly metformin
  • Aspirin
  • Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy
5. Control all known coronary heart disease risk factors to optimal levels
  • Reduce LDL cholesterol to about 70 mg %, decrease
  • LDL particle number and increase LDL particle size.
  • Reduce oxidized LDL.
  • Increase HDL to over 40 mg % in men and over 50 mg % in women and increase HDL 2 subfraction. Reduce inflammatory HDL and increase protective HDL.
  • Reduce fasting blood glucose to less than 90 mg % and 2 hour post prandial or 2 hour GTT to less than 110 mg %. Keep Hemoglobin A1C to about 5.0% and keep insulin levels low.
  • Reduce blood pressure to about 120/ 80 mm Hg
  • Reduce homocysteine to less than 8 um/L
  • Reduce HS-CRP to less than 1.0
  • Maintain ideal body weight and composition.
  • Stop smoking.
  • Treat insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome.
6.Some clinicians have recommended reducing all known coronary risk factors, inflammation, oxidative stress, ADMA levels and angiotensin II levels or its action.
At the same time, therapy should increase nitric oxide levels and nitric oxide bioavailability, increase arginine, increase endothelial progenitor cells, improve mitochondrial
function and increase oxidative defenses. In addition, one should optimize hormone levels, exercise, sleep, nutrition and nutritional supplements.
Fasting and caloric restriction should be part of the regimen as well.

#1424 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:38 AM

Spectracell is limited, I do not believe they use the Flow-FISH measurements and are less accurate.

In August of 2009 I asked the following from Robert at Spectracell:

Robert K. Slattery

Territory Manager SE Florida
SpectraCell Laboratories, Inc.
10401 Town Park Drive, Houston, TX USA 77072

Here are some questions for you:
=====================================================
1- What is the method called that you are using to test telomere length?

2- What is the standard deviation of measurements for the same cell type that is measured?

3- What type of cell will you be measuring? Total for lymphocyte and granulocyte populations, or also for B-cells, T-cells and NK cells?

4- I have had my blood tested using the Flow FISH method at repeat diagnostics.
Test 1: http://revgenetics.c...thony_Loera.pdf
Test 2: http://revgenetics.c...thony_Loera.pdf

Although the tests are accurate with a standard deviation of 0.1 kb according to the paperwork, They (RepeatDiagnostics) have told me over the phone that a variation of 0.5 kb is typical for different samples of blood. So here is my question: After I have my blood tested with Spectracell, If I came back in a few days with another another sample, would a change of 100 kb either way surprise you and what would be a normal variation between drawn blood samples: 0.1 kb, 0.5 kb, 10 kb, 50 kb, 100 kb, 300 kb, 500 kb, 700 kb?

5- If a healthy, normally aging person submitted five samples, a year apart, and you looked at the results with all date or age information removed, how confident are you that you could put them in the correct order? What about two or five years apart?

=====================================================


He never did answer these questions, or respond to my inquiry.

A


I personally wouldn't go with Spectracell. I had emailed them a while ago, they did respond saying they would answer questions... however, after I asked my questions.. they never got back to me.

Use repeat diagnostics from canada if you are going to pay. If you are going with another company, ask them my questions above to see what they say.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 August 2011 - 03:44 AM.


#1425 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:55 AM

Missminni,

The folks at Harvard, making DNA library available to the public for scientific research for the public good is not something I would consider nefarious.
But I will agree to disagree with you on that one and move on.

Cheers

A

#1426 GreenPower

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:31 AM

The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.

Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.


If the link that hav posted is correct, then I would say no, you will not have access to your entire genome.

This is the first line of the file:
# This data file generated by 23andMe at: Mon Aug 23 19:23:36 2010

So the actual sequencing seems to be done by 23andMe. Specifically they seem to use the old 2nd generation test which only gives you about 578000 SNP's. The new 3rd generation chip they are using is said to decode about a million SNP's. I think I read somewhere that there's about 10 million SNPs within the The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome. That would give you about 6% or 10% of all your SNP's, depending of which version of the chip is used.

If you want some amount of anonymity you can order the test directly from 23andMe at the cost of $399.

As far as I know, 23andMe doesn't measure telomere lengths, but maybe they do that separately at Harvard.

#1427 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:04 AM

Missminni,

The folks at Harvard, making DNA library available to the public for scientific research for the public good is not something I would consider nefarious.
But I will agree to disagree with you on that one and move on.

Cheers

A


HI Anthony,
on the surface, I wouldn't either.
But after reading that consent form it's hard not to see the implications.
After all, academia is not exempt from human foible.

#1428 niner

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:43 PM

The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.

Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.

If the link that hav posted is correct, then I would say no, you will not have access to your entire genome.

This is the first line of the file:
# This data file generated by 23andMe at: Mon Aug 23 19:23:36 2010

So the actual sequencing seems to be done by 23andMe. Specifically they seem to use the old 2nd generation test which only gives you about 578000 SNP's. The new 3rd generation chip they are using is said to decode about a million SNP's. I think I read somewhere that there's about 10 million SNPs within the The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome. That would give you about 6% or 10% of all your SNP's, depending of which version of the chip is used.

This can't be right. George Church is famous for developing low cost methodology to do full genomic sequencing. The kind of analysis you'd get at 23andMe is just SNPs. It doesn't make sense that he would be one of the PIs on a project that was going to farm out genetic analysis to 23andMe. 23andMe doesn't even do their own SNP-chip run; don't they farm it out to Illumina or someone? Because of their position in the field, 23andMe's file format might be some sort of standard; maybe that's what's happening here.

#1429 missminni

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:57 PM

The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.

Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.

If the link that hav posted is correct, then I would say no, you will not have access to your entire genome.

This is the first line of the file:
# This data file generated by 23andMe at: Mon Aug 23 19:23:36 2010

So the actual sequencing seems to be done by 23andMe. Specifically they seem to use the old 2nd generation test which only gives you about 578000 SNP's. The new 3rd generation chip they are using is said to decode about a million SNP's. I think I read somewhere that there's about 10 million SNPs within the The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome. That would give you about 6% or 10% of all your SNP's, depending of which version of the chip is used.



This can't be right. George Church is famous for developing low cost methodology to do full genomic sequencing. The kind of analysis you'd get at 23andMe is just SNPs. It doesn't make sense that he would be one of the PIs on a project that was going to farm out genetic analysis to 23andMe. 23andMe doesn't even do their own SNP-chip run; don't they farm it out to Illumina or someone? Because of their position in the field, 23andMe's file format might be some sort of standard; maybe that's what's happening here.



It seems to be 23andme that's doing the testing.
Here's the anonymous profile of one of the subjects. scroll down to genetic data...and you will see it's by 23andme

you can see all the subjects profiles here:
https://my.personalg...enrolled?page=9
some have genetic data and some don't.

#1430 niner

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:05 PM

[quote name='missminni' timestamp='1312577858' post='472681']
[quote name='niner' timestamp='1312576980' post='472679']
[quote name='GreenPower' timestamp='1312525913' post='472616']
[quote name='niner' timestamp='1312509197' post='472586']
[quote name='missminni' timestamp='1312496520' post='472567']
The personal risks, which are many, far outweigh the personal benefits, which as they state quite simply are NONE.
[/quote]
Thanks for the pdf, missminni. I read it, and I have to say, wow. They are really making this sound awful. I guess that's what "informed consent" is all about these days. The part about the personal benefits being "NONE", however, would only apply to someone who had no interest in using the data. We would have access to our entire genome, right? I don't know how convenient it would be, but in principle it would be useful, and would become more useful as more genetic mysteries are solved. Plus it's a way to get your telomere length measured for free, more or less.
[/quote]
If the link that hav posted is correct, then I would say no, you will not have access to your entire genome.

This is the first line of the file:
# This data file generated by 23andMe at: Mon Aug 23 19:23:36 2010

So the actual sequencing seems to be done by 23andMe. Specifically they seem to use the old 2nd generation test which only gives you about 578000 SNP's. The new 3rd generation chip they are using is said to decode about a million SNP's. I think I read somewhere that there's about 10 million SNPs within the The 2.9 billion base pairs of the haploid human genome. That would give you about 6% or 10% of all your SNP's, depending of which version of the chip is used.
[/quote]
This can't be right. George Church is famous for developing low cost methodology to do full genomic sequencing. The kind of analysis you'd get at 23andMe is just SNPs. It doesn't make sense that he would be one of the PIs on a project that was going to farm out genetic analysis to 23andMe. 23andMe doesn't even do their own SNP-chip run; don't they farm it out to Illumina or someone? Because of their position in the field, 23andMe's file format might be some sort of standard; maybe that's what's happening here.
[/quote]
It seems to be 23andme that's doing the testing.
Here's the anonymous profile of one of the subjects. scroll down to genetic data...and you will see it's by 23andme

you can see all the subjects profiles here:
https://my.personalg...enrolled?page=9
some have genetic data and some don't.
[/quote]
I think they just haven't done the full sequencing yet; it sounds like they are still trying to get funding for it. On the Personal Genomes site, they say:

[quote]Thus far, only a handful of individuals in the world have been extensively sequenced and studied by the research community. The PGP aims to change this by giving individuals an opportunity to obtain a genome sequence and share it alongside other personal information with researchers to advance scientific discovery.[/quote]
This is talking about the whole three gigabyte (or whatever it is) sequence, not just a list of snps. I think that those people who have 23andMe datasets must have put them up for people to download in order to get some science going while they wait for the full sequence. At the moment, 23andMe has an in-house research effort, but I don't know if they are collaborating widely. They certainly aren't putting data on a website for download.

#1431 hav

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 01:17 PM

The wired article quotes some cost statistics on full genome sequencing. It mentions that Knome, a company Church co-founded can do it for $350,000. Competitor 454 Life Sciences estimates their machine can do it for $200,000 while Applied Biosystems says its done one for $60,000. I'm guessing PGP is using 23andme for the project because it's using the Polinator machine which Church designed; the article says that machine is the lowest cost to buy and operate and is the fastest sequencer around. The article mentions, however, that the current version of the Polinator cannot do a full sequence but estimates an update under development might be able to do a full sequence for $20,000. I got the impression from the article that PGP won't be doing full sequencing till they can get the cost down to $1,000 a pop. Btw, the article also mentions that Church sits on the board of 23andme.

Howard

#1432 ymc

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 03:20 PM

The wired article quotes some cost statistics on full genome sequencing. It mentions that Knome, a company Church co-founded can do it for $350,000. Competitor 454 Life Sciences estimates their machine can do it for $200,000 while Applied Biosystems says its done one for $60,000. I'm guessing PGP is using 23andme for the project because it's using the Polinator machine which Church designed; the article says that machine is the lowest cost to buy and operate and is the fastest sequencer around. The article mentions, however, that the current version of the Polinator cannot do a full sequence but estimates an update under development might be able to do a full sequence for $20,000. I got the impression from the article that PGP won't be doing full sequencing till they can get the cost down to $1,000 a pop. Btw, the article also mentions that Church sits on the board of 23andme.

Howard


As someone sort of in a industry related to sequencing, the current sequencing leader is Illumina's HiSeq 2000. The reagent cost is about $3,000 per genome. The run time is one week but you have to do six genomes in one run. That means on average a bit a day can sequence a genome at 30x.

No serious sequencing company is using this Polinator toy. If you want to do whole genome sequencing for yourself, I know BGI can do it for you really cheap. Knome's seqeuencing is also done by BGI but Knome will also do the analyzing part for you and hence the high prize. But if you know how to use some free software, you don't really Knome to do the analyzing part.

#1433 missminni

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 03:21 PM

The wired article quotes some cost statistics on full genome sequencing. It mentions that Knome, a company Church co-founded can do it for $350,000. Competitor 454 Life Sciences estimates their machine can do it for $200,000 while Applied Biosystems says its done one for $60,000. I'm guessing PGP is using 23andme for the project because it's using the Polinator machine which Church designed; the article says that machine is the lowest cost to buy and operate and is the fastest sequencer around. The article mentions, however, that the current version of the Polinator cannot do a full sequence but estimates an update under development might be able to do a full sequence for $20,000. I got the impression from the article that PGP won't be doing full sequencing till they can get the cost down to $1,000 a pop. Btw, the article also mentions that Church sits on the board of 23andme.

Howard


wow. sounds a bit nepotistic to me. somebody's going to make a lot of money from this project. With risks being many and benefits being none...I really don't see the advantage of participating.
The free testing? Well that's not happening....they're just collecting personal data and donations.
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#1434 hav

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 03:54 PM

I stumbled across this research reference about the telemere lengthening effect of nitric oxide blood levels and wonder what folks here might think about it:

http://circres.ahajo...t/87/7/540.full

Nitric Oxide Activates Telomerase and Delays Endothelial Cell Senescence
Mariuca Vasa, Kristin Breitschopf, Andreas M. Zeiher, Stefanie Dimmeler
From Molecular Cardiology, Department of Internal Medicine IV, University of Frankfurt, Germany.

Endothelial cells (ECs) undergo a limited number of cell divisions, ultimately stop dividing, and enter a state that is designated replicative senescence. Shortening of telomeres is believed to be a molecular clock that triggers senescence. Telomerase, a RNA-directed DNA polymerase, extends telomeres of eukaryotic chromosomes and delays the development of senescence. In this study, we examined telomere length and the activity of telomerase during aging of human ECs in culture and elucidated the effect of nitric oxide (NO). A significant increase in senescent cells as detected by acidic ß-galactosidase expression and a reduction of telomere length were found after 11 passages. Telomerase activity was reduced after the seventh passage, thereby preceding the development of EC senescence. The repeated addition of the NO donor S-nitroso-penicillamine significantly reduced EC senescence and delayed age-dependent inhibition of telomerase activity, whereas inhibition of endogenous NO synthesis had an adverse effect. Taken together, our results demonstrate that telomerase inactivation precedes EC aging. NO prevents age-related downregulation of telomerase activity and delays EC senescence.


I'm interested in this because I have high blood pressure and look to nitric oxide producing supplements that I can take more regularly. I had previously tried Centella Asiatica but worry about it interfering with my cholesterol medication (statins); thinking of L-Arginine as a substitute.

But this suggests that supplements like procyanidin (grape seed extract, pine bark) which stimulate nitric oxide in the blood too might also complement astragalus products. I thought that being flavinoids and powerful antioxidants that they'd be telomerase inhibitors. Quercetin is another nitric oxide producing flavinoid. I've been only taking these with my resveratrol related stack. Any ideas?

Howard

Edited by hav, 10 August 2011 - 04:08 PM.


#1435 stephen_b

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 04:25 PM

Pycnogenol and l-arginine are quite synergistic (the combo has been used to treat ED).

#1436 missminni

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:20 PM

I don't know if this has been discussed before...and this might not be the right thread for it...but I did a search and couldn't find a discussion about it anywhere else....
and thought it would be of interest to anyone subscribing to this thread....I'm attaching the pdf for those who want more details.


Aspirin reduces endothelial cell senescence
Stefanie M. Bode-Bo¨ger a,*, Jens Martens-Lobenhoffer a, Michael Ta¨ger b,
Henning Schro¨der c, Fortunato Scalera a
a Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, University Hospital, Otto-von-Guericke University, Germany
b Institute of Medical Technology, Magdeburg, Germany
c Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy, Martin Luther University, Halle, Germany
Received 4 July 2005
Available online 18 July 2005
Abstract
We report here the effect of aspirin on the onset of replicative senescence. Endothelial cells that were cultured until cumulative
population doublings 40 showed clear signs of aging. Incubation with aspirin inhibited senescence-associated b-galactosidase activity
and increased telomerase activity. Along with the delayed onset of senescence, aspirin decreased reactive oxygen species and
increased nitric oxide (NO) and cGMP levels. Furthermore, aspirin reduced the elaboration of asymmetric dimethylarginine
(ADMA), an endogenous inhibitor of NO synthase, and up-regulated the activity of dimethylarginine dimethylaminohydrolase,
the enzyme that degrades ADMA. These effects were specific in that other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, such as ibuprofen
or acetaminophen, did not prevent the onset of endothelial senescence. The NO synthase inhibitor L-NAME, but not its inactive Denantiomer,
led to complete inhibition of aspirin-delayed senescence. These findings demonstrate that aspirin delays the onset of
endothelial senescence by preventing a decrease in NO formation/generation. This might provide a therapeutic strategy aimed at
blocking aging-induced NO inhibition.

 2005 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved
.

Attached Files



#1437 sunshinefrost

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:57 PM

Can someone tell me why i can't find this post in the forum ?? I subscribed to emails concerning this topic and i received the following... was the post deleted ? let me know what you think about what mdlee is advertising...

sunshinefrost,

mdlee19 has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Astragalus, Astragaloside IV".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some pretty exciting news here folks. Dr. Bill Andrews just finished a very long seminar at the Isagenix seminar. He has teamed up with John Anderson to offer a telomerase activator. He gave some background regarding the proprietary formulation of their Product B Telomerase Support supplement. He said that John Anderson, the formulator at Isagenix sent him numerous botanicals, and in the first fifteen they got a very strong hit on number 7. On the activation scale (100 being telomerase always on, or cell immortality) they had a score of 10. This is very powerful stuff considering cycloastragenol scored a 1.5. The next batch of botanicals had another hit. This time the score was a 30! WOW!!! That's TWENTY TIMES more activity than cycloastragenol produced!!! They have had several more strong hits on the various botanicals supplied by John Anderson to Sierra Sciences. This is what has gone into their Product B which is just today being offered to the general public. They are beginning their first controlled study of the in vivo effects. They will begin with 50 people. They will take the 30 people with the shortest telomeres and do measurements every three months. Very, very exciting stuff. If you are interested to to the Isagenix website and read about Product 50. If you want the discount price, you can sign up as an associate for $19 a year. This will get you roughly 50% off the retail price. In fact, Product B wholesale to me as a new member is only $77.00 for 120 capsules. Very, very reasonable. I just signed up. In order to sign up you will need a member to reference. Feel free to use me as your sponsor. Go to www.mdlee19.isagenix.com and get started. I just signed up today. If you wish to talk to me via telephone email me at mdlee19 (at) yahoo dot com.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The topic can be found here:
http://www.longecity...view=getnewpost

#1438 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:21 PM

The last part is spam, it was moved to product discussions sub forum.

I suggest you keep an eye on it, as i got a reply from TA Sciences regarding this marketing post, and placed it in that thread.

A

#1439 sunshinefrost

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:45 PM

interesting, i'll watch this topic.

thanks !

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#1440 hamishm00

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:55 PM

Anthony - any news on the new astral fruit product?




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