1950 replies to this topic

[niner]

jorgepl22, on 05 May 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

So, what did they die of seeing as they were "the physiological equivalent of young adults"?

Once they actually became old adults, they probably died of the same stuff that any mouse dies of.  It's important to keep in mind what was going on in this experiment.  Mice were made artificially "old" before their time by causing their telomeres to become critically short.  They were not actually "old", in that they didn't have all of the damage that an actual old mouse would have.  They were "artificially old", and it was possible to rescue them from this condition by turning on their telomerase.  Turning on telomerase in a mouse (or human) that was truly old would not have the same effects, though it does appear to help.

[Getm]

There is a new movie here

Dr. Bigs from SSCI says during the 19:35 min something about increasing telomerase in HeLa cancer cells. I don't quite understand what is she saying, and the video is low qual. Does she mean that TA-65 increases telomerase in HeLa cancer cells ? So is it possible to sum up various methods of telomerase activators to increase telomerase activity even more ?

[niner]

Getm, on 10 May 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

There is a new movie here
[movie]
Dr. Bigs from SSCI says during the 19:35 min something about increasing telomerase in HeLa cancer cells. I don't quite understand what is she saying, and the video is low qual. Does she mean that TA-65 increases telomerase in HeLa cancer cells ? So is it possible to sum up various methods of telomerase activators to increase telomerase activity even more ?

The movie may have just been uploaded to youtube, but it was shot years ago.  There's a date for the conference at the very beginning.  Be that as it may,  she said that TA65 did NOT increase telomerase in HeLa cells, but C0057684 did increase it.  Increasing telomerase in cancer cells would be a bad thing, so that's good news for TA65, not so hot for 57684, which is probably why we've never heard of it.

[Logic]

This is a good full paper on whats required to minimise DNA breaks and repair errors.

Prevention of Mutation, Cancer, and Other Age-Associated Diseases by Optimizing Micronutrient Intake

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2945683/


Also do a search for DNA repair as I dont see selinium mentioned in the above.
________________________________________________________________

Im sticking with the very affordable (0$ is all I can afford) weed, Purslane, for:
Telomerase activation, omega 3,  Vit A, C, and some B-complex, and anti mutagenics.

http://www.nutrition...m/purslane.html

If you prefer spending money;  there are pills

[Getm]

niner, on 10 May 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Increasing telomerase in cancer cells would be a bad thing

Why is that ? Cancer cells are already immortal so making them more immortal wouldn't change antything would it ?

[Suzudo]

Telomerase News

http://www.embo.org/...r-medicine.html

[levianthan]

hey guys,

i am new to the forum and interested in the telomere lengthening theories etc..

what would you think of the following  supplement?

http://www.swansonvi...H005/ItemDetail

it says that it contains Astragalus Extract  (0.5% hydroxy-3-methoxy-isoflavone-7) (root).

does that make it any good?

i know there are other supplements like TA-65 etc but these are unfortunately too expensive for me so i am looking for something less expensive.What would you recommend?

thank you

[AdamI]

levianthan, on 11 June 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

hey guys,

i am new to the forum and interested in the telomere lengthening theories etc..

what would you think of the following  supplement?

http://www.swansonvi...H005/ItemDetail

it says that it contains Astragalus Extract  (0.5% hydroxy-3-methoxy-isoflavone-7) (root).

does that make it any good?

i know there are other supplements like TA-65 etc but these are unfortunately too expensive for me so i am looking for something less expensive.What would you recommend?

thank you

Someone said before in this thread that they liked this http://www.nationaln...il.aspx?ID=4713 its Astragalus membranaceus (Astragalus) (root) 3% astragalosides, among some other stuff in there.

You could check out http://www.appliedyouth.com/ for AGAG, in studies it has had Telomerase activation and is cheaper than TA-65 (depending on dose).
You can follow the AGAG discussion under the thread Epitalon on this forum as well.

[niner]

Getm, on 10 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

Why is that ? Cancer cells are already immortal so making them more immortal wouldn't change antything would it ?

I think in order to be called 'cancer', a cell just has to lose control over growth.  I don't think it necessarily needs constitutively active telomerase.   If that's the case, it would be a small self-limited cancer that would burn itself out when it ran out of telomeres.  That would be the kind of cell that you wouldn't want to activate telomerase in.  In HeLa cells, it's irrelevant because they already have super-active telomerase.

[smithx]

levianthan, on 11 June 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

what would you think of the following  supplement?
http://www.swansonvi...H005/ItemDetail
it says that it contains Astragalus Extract  (0.5% hydroxy-3-methoxy-isoflavone-7) (root).

In astragalus supplements we're not looking for flavones, we're looking for astragalosides.

[lucid]

I was involved & quite up to date on all of this stuff ( still pretty proud of my page 1 post!) about 4 years ago when this tread started. Since then, I have been super busy getting my career started and basically getting rich

While I would love to read through all 60 pages and 1700+ posts, I will now humbly beg for a summary of what has transpired in the past 4 years with regards to astrogaloside's and telomerase activation in general.

Specifically, do astrogalosides activate telomerase in the human guinea pigs who have been self medicating in the name of science? Is that resulting in longer telomeres in most body tissues? If so what have been the effects & side effects? If someone is up to the challenge, many thanks in advance!

[lucid]

As a bit of a bump and an answer to my own question... Here is the best summary I found online:

Quote

Other than the study cited above, the only discussions of cycloastragenol health activities seem to be in longevity blogs chewing over the same material covered here.  It is a relatively unfamiliar substance.  As for astragaloside IV, cycloastragenol suppliers appear to be in China.  Purchasing either of these supplements from a US company, it is good to be on a lookout for independent laboratory verification of contents and purity.  

Observation 1: When it comes to telomerase activation, the contrast between what is reported as “research” in the general and commercial literature and what is reported in the filtered scientific research literature is singularly stark.  Pubmed.org is the definitive National Library of Medicine database of medical and related scientific research, containing millions of literature abstracts covering virtually every article in every research publications worldwide.  The following lists the number of items retrieved using Google and using Pubmed in response to the given query.

Observation 2: Published studies suggests that telomerase activation may have a positive effect on the immune function, though this conjecture based on lab cell-level studies must be confirmed via large-scale human studies.  How much affect using what activator and under what conditions are as yet not established.   There is also research strongly suggesting important potential health benefits from taking astragaloside IV in particular, and possibly also from taking TAT2 (likely to be the same thing).  How telomerase activation relates to the beneficial effects of these substances, however, remains mostly unstudied.

Observation 3:  The case for specifically taking TA-65 is mainly based on propriety information provided by TA sciences and doctors offering TA-65 as a treatment, and by the original research done by Geron. The most compelling positive information is that derived from the 2005 human trial sponsored by TA Sciences.  While TA-65 has an immense standing in the popular literature I have had trouble finding any mention of it in the published scientific literature.  In fact, if a query about TA-65 is made in PubMed, part of the reply is “The following term was not found in PubMed: TA-65.”  

Observation 4:  I remind readers that there are research studies establishing that there are other interventions that result in longer telomeres besides taking the telomerase activators discussed here.  See the January 2010 blog entry Vitamins, supplements and telomerase – upregulation or downregulation?  And also see my blog entries Exercise, telomerase and telomeres, Timely telomerase tidbits, Breakthrough telomere research finding, and Telomere and telomerase writings.

Observation 5: In the scientific literature I have found no published research whatsoever that establishes that any of the telomerase activators mentioned actually extends telomeres.  The closest the literature comes are statements like “moderately increases telomerase activity, ” “modestly retards telomere shortening,”  and “inhibit the onset of CD4 and CD8 cellular senescence.” And these statements are based on cell-level studies with results that may or may not be applicable in live humans.  It is interesting that the TA Sciences web site does not now make the claim that TA-65 actually extends telomeres.  Unfortunately, however, the claim keeps popping up in news stories and some blog postings about the activator substances.

Observation 6:  What telomerase activators actually do in humans remains a mystery as far as the published scientific literature is concerned, and what the two proprietary activators consist of still remains a mystery as well. I keep awaiting more trustworthy published information.

There was a lot more substance in the article (link below) but I just put the conclusions above.
http://www.anti-agin...they-really-do/

My synopsis is that:
- There has been no real progress on telomere extension in the past 4 years (unless you count the commercialization and resulting the human guinea pig projects here as successful...)
- Geron stopped looking into telomerase activation and is persueing down-regulation. This is either because
a) activation will be difficult to commercialize through the FDA because it doesn't cure a disease or
b) They found that some step in the value stream of telomerase activation wasn't working well... (ex: we are able to turn telomerase on but it isn't extending telomeres... etc)

[scottrobb1982]

I have been documenting the effects of astragaloside for the past 10 years - in link with other items and their importance - and the effects with using certain items - and how if certain people are not careful, they may cause telomerase methods to be banned, and controlled only by the few that have amassed a large amount of money. I current have a a UK patent pending, in the hope to bring awareness to this issue, and make sure that it is all documented correctly. You can check out "youmukranda"

[scottrobb1982]

importantly, the company Geron needs alot of credit, and if they do read this, I hope they contact me, with regards to another issue - which is more important than anyone's selfish anti ageing means. If the certain companies trying to reverse ageing, put as much effort into others, rather than their own selfish desires, we could be a lot more advanced, and there would be less suffering. I will not be replying to any messages on here, due to the highly competitive and selfish desires of some companies, that would rather ensure they make billions of pounds, rather that make these items cheaply available for people, in times where money will be less scarce.

[scottrobb1982]

Geron is the only mega corp that you should trust on Earth right now, trust me on that one.

[scottrobb1982]

I have also taken a screen shot of this page, in the case of certain persons arranging that the last 3 posts I wrote are modified, and or deleted, which would be done via some persons, whom - I am sure - you are aware of. If this patent is somehow obtained, and or modified after deleting these posts for your own personal benefit, then, we will sue you. This has been a project that has taken 10 years to work on, and a-lot of cows have been eaten in that time, so it is important. Call me crazy, please do.

[scottrobb1982]

opps, sorry, sent that twice EDIT. I respect so many people on this forum, with your creative minds, we have been able to raise the group vibration on Earth. I must add, that you need to be a Vegan, if you are doing this, or, have the fishing skills of Jesus H Christ..

Edited by scottrobb1982, 14 June 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[lucid]

In addition to the above excellent article that summarized research to date on telomerase activators, Vincent Giuliano writes another great perspective and summary here:
http://www.anti-agin...er-supplements/

Quote

In past blog entries and in my treatise I have explained how I was an early adapter at taking telomerase extenders like astrogaloside4 and cycloastragenol, and why, later as a result of following much research, I stopped taking the supplements.  See the discussion in my treatise under the subheading An evolving perspective on the Telomere shortening theory of aging.  However, I am still beset by readers who write me wanting to know my opinion of expensive commercial supplements that are marketed specifically as telomerase activators ones like TA-65® sold by T.A. Sciences  So I recently decided to visit recent research on the topic, striving to keep an open mind in the process.  Here, I summarize the research cases both for taking and not taking such supplements.  I have written a number of blog items on telomeres and telomerase, mostly back in 2009-2010.  This blog entry provides an update.  I cite a number of interesting publications that have appeared in only the last few months or weeks.
Background – Some simplified facts
For those of you unfamiliar with the topic:
Telomeres and telomerase are relatively new, important and dynamic areas of aging science.
Telomeres are caps at the end of chromosomes.
Telomerase is a naturally-occurring enzyme which lengthens telomeres when activated.  Germ cells and stem cells express relatively high levels of telomerase.  Many normal body cells express little or no telomerase.
Each time a cell divides the telomeres get a little shorter due to the mechanics of cell division.
With aging after a certain number of cell divisions, telomeres in a given cell get critically short.  Older people generally have shorter telomeres.   Diseases, stress and a number of other conditions can also cause telomeres to shorten.
Cells with too-short telomeres can become senescent or suffer apoptosis (die).
These simplified facts have been known for a number of years and are uncontested.
Part 1: The case for taking telomerase extender supplements
A dozen or so years ago, many researchers including the writer thought the following statements were true.  It appears some researchers still subscribe to these statements although counter-arguments are presented later in this blog.
Old-age, disease and death is possibly caused by too-short telomeres.
Since telomere shortening is due to cell division, the telomeres get shorter and shorter with aging.  This leads to dysfunctional senescent cells and tissues, to old age, to many diseases like cancer and diabetes, and to death.
Since they are determined by cell divisions, telomere lengths are like clocks, biomarkers of aging.
Life can therefore probably be extended and health enhanced by taking supplements specifically designed to activate telomerase and therefore keep telomeres long.
Research cited directly below here tend to support these statements.  More-recent research publications such as those I review in Part 2 below suggest that these numbered statements are misleading, incorrect or both.
For the history of telomerase activators and my earlier view on the subject, see the April 2010 blog entry Telomerase activators – what do they really do?  Shortly after writing that blog entry I stopped taking the activator cycloastragenol.

Edited by lucid, 14 June 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Guest Tele]

Hello thank you for this cool thread.

Is there a FAQ summary encapsulating the 4 years of talkback about this subject? Thank you for the above poster with the research summary.

If there is no FAQ ... It would be great and helpful, and beneficial for all of us if expert(s) could construct a working FAQ that could be updated / and modified by group discussion. Like a wiki or something!! This will lead to better longer term analysis. :D

There are lots of posts.

My main "direct" questions are:

1] Does TA-65 work for anyone?
2] Is there a less expensive, but similar capable approach?
3] Negatives? Any?
4] Concerns about taking too much?

I am most interested in hearing stories about people who have taken it for awhile.

The other fleeting questions...

1] Could it if taken correctly, / time - dose / - be the winner for the tag line for longecity.org "unlimited lifespan"
2] If so... what regimen and dose is considered current best practice to achieve this potentially interesting goal?

Thank you and I appreciate where this has all gone since 2008 when this thread started.

Edited by Guest Tele, 22 June 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Suzudo]

After seeing the articles:

http://onlinelibrary...200245/abstract

Above all and linked to above:

http://onlinelibrary....201200246/full

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3057569/


There is clear evidence that increasing the expression of TERT is achieved rejuvenation and prolong youth without involving significant increase in tumors.

There are also investigating Maria Blasco by adding 3  TERT genes and and other 3 of TP53 genes in mouse embryos with a more significant increase of life and the period of youth of the same


Linking it with the information I stated in previous posts in this thread in this group I thought maybe if used gene therapy to increase not only TERT but the entire set of genes involved in longevity and prevent cancer could obtain a lengthening of the youth much higher and greater health

So as to
1 - avoid damage
2 - expressing TP53 (which regulates the repair, celullar apoptosis, prevents cancer for cell expression of TERT in previously damaged, regulates cell differentiation and decides to repair tissues and parts of bodies as the length of telomeres with the cells involved)
3 - repair damage
4 - safely extend telomerase
5 - differentiate tissues and repair tissues, organs, even replacing lost limbs with good quality fabric and it does not scar but this involves a large loss of telomeres by the number of copies


The idea would be to add in the gene therapy virus

to 1:
Msn2
Msn4
SOD1
SOD2
SOD3
Glutathione


to 2:
TP53

(And in any case for 3, 4 and 5)

to 3:
BanF1
Sirt1

for 4:
TERT

to 5:
MyoD1 (Myostatin antagonist) MyoD and TP53 (p53) related and mutually regulated by p21 and this is associated with tumors

MSX2 homeobox (and / or Wnt glycoproteins)


But goes a very long list and many tests ahead before deciding.

I see it elsewhere:

http://www.limm.leed...ups/melcher.htm


What has driven me to the idea of ​​getting antibody antagonists:

1 SCH9

2 mdm2

3 mTOR serine / kinase theronine

4 PinX1

5 Myostatin
cerberus?


Antibody being tested design and are indicators could be used for research

I have thought that one of the viruses in gene therapy (such as VV9) could be added not only or not add extra copies of genes to be expressed in quantity but also more or exclusively sequences of antibody genes Design inhibited.

So I guess you could add more copies of  TERT, TP53 more copies, more copies of BANF1, more copies of Sirt1, etc. But it could add copies of antibody against mTOR serine / kinase theronine or copies or copies antibody against mdm2 antibody SCH9 against

This could not add antibody PinX1 if it looks clean and add copies of TERT or add copies of antibody BANF1 and SCH9.
Or add copies of antibody against myostatin (antibody is designed under name myo-29 for the treatment of muscular dystrophy) and copies of MyoD1 but there are problems of cancer, or MSX2 homeobox add copies of the liver as the rest of the body to regenerate, but you can control the Wnt glycoproteins correctly and with this the highest expression of TERT preventing age to regenerate tissue lost a limb.



A view that seems

Shilima khemen

[Guest Tele]

Quote

After seeing the articles:

http://onlinelibrary...200245/abstract

Above all and linked to above:

<snip>

Hi, please do not cross-post ... your message is better served in a fresh or different thread Thanx

It has nothing to do with Astragalus or Astragaloside since as you intend to discuss a complex & lengthy technique which extends telomeres using such technique and processes ... Sorry, I do not have admin rights to move your message.

Edited by Guest Tele, 24 June 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Suzudo]

True forgiveness but:
In the thread is constantly named substances and derivatives are combined with astragalus

I made some proposals for some time here and I think the consumption derived from astragalus may not be enough but the consumption of astragalus derivatives can be combined with treatments that are not sufficient by themselves

I mean, maybe things are not unrelated but rather complement because I have understood the implications of any changes. Also show the relationship between express telomerase and possibilities of cancer. The need for telomerase activators together with activators of repair, etc..

On that point, I made some comments that I see now in the thread where the proposed cycloestragenol combinations of other things after explaining the reasons

Estecomentario not true that I quote above and it was but I think we all have enough respect and cycloastragenol alone is not sufficient or treatments extend over 40% if they are not helped by some

Besides adding the telomerase gene avcuna alone shows no significant increase in cancer incidence which in turn I think is very relevant information about taking cycloastragenol and that this is or is not carcinogenic by itself

So I decided to post it here as complementary information. Aujnque should be mostly in other hilo.Tampoco see why it was removed because I find information that may make sense with the on telomerase activators oral

Someone advised me where to send messages so that case the set of techniques (for those who intend to complete also combinations of food supplements and ...)

[Guest Tele]

I see your point. Maybe moreover good reason to have some FAQ that can serve as breakdown of all aspects of potential procedures. This thread is getting slightly long and many points getting lost in noise. Hope someone can manage that. Thank you. -D

[Guest Tele]

Umm... why does this project have problems?

Does the consumption of ANY T extending compound maybe % cause cancer?

Or does the % really become marketecture thing?

[Getm]

Here I found some interesting quotes of Bill Andrews. It's about recent progress on high telomerase induction and current obstacles.
http://www.vahlchiro...012/06/19/3755/

[Logic]

Getm, on 27 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Here I found some interesting quotes of Bill Andrews. It's about recent progress on high telomerase induction and current obstacles.
http://www.vahlchiro...012/06/19/3755/

A quote from the link:

...“The biggest news, from my point of view, is a publication that just came out by Dr. Maria Blasco showing mouse clinical results of telomerase induction including ‘no increased risk of cancer’.” [Blasco MA, et al (2012) Telomerase gene therapy in adult and old mice delays aging and increases longevity without increasing cancer...

...Not only does telomerase not cause cancer, it increases the ability of the body to fight cancer!”

...Dr. Andrews plans to give a talk on telomere biology at the November AMMG conference that will review all the new discoveries...

[TheFountain]

What happened to Astral Fruit? Has it been discontinued?

[Logic]

It was put on an Iceburg and pushed out to sea by a tugboat named 'We Sue You' driven by TA-65 lawers!

[TheFountain]

Really? A lawsuit prevented its continued development?

[Logic]

TheFountain, on 02 July 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Really? A lawsuit prevented its continued development?

       I really dont know.  I just finished reading the whole thread and the impression I got was that Astral Fruit was discontinued due do legal issues.  I got the impression that Anthony was approached by TA-65 holding a whip in one hand and a carrot in the other, but possibly Anthony decided by himself not to get involved in legal wranglings and just sell their product.

There was then talk of of a superior product named Iceburg, (excl Astragalus) but nothing seems to have come of that.
Anthony then decided to also sell Product B, but could not due to the terms of joining their MLM scheme.
(Different thread)

The Product StemCell 100 looks interesting, and similar to product B, but contains Astragalus extracts:  probably therefore it cannot be considered...  (speculation)

My conclusion from reading the whole thread is that a mixture of Astragalus and Astragalus extract as made by Solgar seems to work best. (Jim Green = great info!)

I have combined this with other suppliments mentioned in Product B and Stem Cell 100:

Astrogalus (skip in morning - take before bed - both before gym)
Resveratrol (Skip before bed - take in morning  - both before gym)
L-theanine
Green Tea
Pterostilbene
Grape Seed Extract
Ginseng
Ashwagandha
Good Multi Vitamin (skip before gym)

because that what I had on hand.

My reading seems to indicate that its best to take this before bed when your body is in repair mode;  so Melatonin is a good idea to be able to get to sleep! (Seem to recall that it also helps?)

Results:
Too soon to tell, but my lower back seems better.

Shout if you want a complete list of the ingredients in SS 100 & PB.
(got a bit carried away here! )