92 replies to this topic

[unbreakable]

1 ) I know this probably has been asked before, but maybe opinions have changed. What do you think are the 20 most important supplements for living long and healthy?

2) What about the 10 most important anti-aging substances (includes supplements/drugs/research chemicals)?

[ajnast4r]

i think its important to note that the top things for living long and healthy are NOT supplements, and no supplement has ever been proven to extend human lifespan other than through correcting nutritional deficiencies

1) proper stress management
2) proper diet
3) exercise
4) enough sleep
5) pursuit of happiness

and below that are foods that have functional value

6) cruciferous vegetables
7) tea
8) berries
9) spices (turmeric, cumin, coriander, pepper, etc)
10) eggs
11) fiber

12) a broad spectrum, moderately dosed multivitamin & multi mineral
13) vitamin D
14) omega-3
15) magnesium

[lucid]

I really like that list ajn, a very concise list of things that will make you healthy.
Here is my own list of supps only:

1. Resveratrol
2. Deprenyl (low dose: 1mg)
3. Vitamin D3
4. Omega-3
5. Raw Cocoa Powder (consumed @ 20g /day)
6. Niacin (as nicotinic acid)
7. Melatonin (low dose @ night)
8. Milk Thistle
9. Lecithin (important for choline especially since i sup niacin which depletes choline.)
10. Dailly low dose Alcohol (1 drink worth of BAC when ever possible)
11. Acetyl-l Carnitine + RLA
12. Quality Multi-V

.. Hmm maybe I'll edit this if I remember leaving any out. In concert with ajn, excercise and diet are going to be much more important than any kind of supping. (arguably, resv and dep could be more valuable)

Edited by lucid, 19 January 2008 - 04:14 PM.

[DukeNukem]

I agree with Ajnast4r.

Regarding supplements only, the first job of a supplement program is to make up for vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies in our diet. So, for a person that eats poorly, job #1 is to get more magnesium, vitamin C, the Bs, and so on.

For a person who has the basic nutritional needs covered, I recommend consideration of these supps, most of which will be boringly familiar:

o EPA/DHA (fish oil)
o pomegranate extract
o green (and/or white) tea extract
o resveratrol
o cocoa
o Pycnogenol
o melatonin
o IP-6
o blueberry extract
o lipoic acid
o CoQ10
o pyridoxamine
o benfotiamine
o garlic extract
o broccoli extract (standardized for sulforphane)
o GliSODin
o carnosine
o n-acetyl cysteine (NAC)

For those over 40, I recommend researching these for possible inclusion:

o metformin
o deprenyl
o aminoguanidine
o acetyl-L-carnitine arginate
o ginkgo biloba


(I might update this later if something else occurs to me.)

Edited by DukeNukem, 19 January 2008 - 04:04 PM.

[technico]

I haven't really done the "in depth" research I know I should be doing, given my personal challenges. But here's what I take:

43yo caucasian male, obese, history of arteriosclerosis (3xCABG + 2x LCA stents) and borderline type II diabetic

Daily MultiVitamin (sometimes x2) picture of current formulation at end of post
Omega Complex
Fish Oil
EPA 180 mg
DHA 120 mg
Borage Seed Oil
GLA 11 mg
LA 18 mg
OA 7 mg
Flaxseed Oil
ALA 75 mg
LA 18 mg
OA 21 mg
Safflower Oil
CLA 140 mg
OA 15 mg

Ester-C 500 mg
Co- Q10 300mg
Lecithin 1200 mg
Cinnamon 500mg
SAM-e 200mg
Garlic 650 mg
Gingko Biloba 60mg
Melatonin 3mg
(with L-Theanine 25mg
and B6 10mg)
Niacin 500mg
L-Arginine 1000mg
L-Lysine 500mg
Milk Thistle 1000mg


Occasionals
Blueberry Extract 36:1 500mg
Pomegrante Juice 1000mg


Meds
Plavix
Zetia (yeah, i know about the recent study - my doc poked some big holes in it...)
Metoprolol
Lisinopril
Wellbutrin SR 150 (for weight mgmt)


Sometimes I hit the B-complex sublingual too (has mega dose of B-12)

Recently decided to try (cause it was given to me)
"Cardio Chelate" 2x
EDTA 1200mg
MSM 300 mg
NAC 150 mg

(and I always welcome suggestions...)

here's the multi breakdown:
Link to site : Glacial Milk
 GlacialMilk_Label.gif   84.92KB   200 downloads

Edited by technico, 19 January 2008 - 06:04 PM.

[tintinet]

So far, I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above recommendations, with the exceptions of aminoguanidine
and pycnogenol (why not grape seed extract?), and I take darn near all mentioned (although I take rather "high dose" melatonin: i.e., 5 or 6 grams QHS.)

In addition to other lifestyle aspects like the aforemented sleep, etc., stillness practice (e.g., meditation); music (participatory); pets, whole foods (and avoid/minimize any processed or refined foods), plenty of pure water.

I haven't really done the "in depth" research I know I should be doing, given my personal challenges. But here's what I take:

43yo caucasian male, obese, history of arteriosclerosis (3xCABG + 2x LCA stents) and borderline type II diabetic

Daily MultiVitamin (sometimes x2) picture of current formulation at end of post
Omega Complex
Fish Oil
EPA 180 mg
DHA 120 mg
Borage Seed Oil
GLA 11 mg
LA 18 mg
OA 7 mg
Flaxseed Oil
ALA 75 mg
LA 18 mg
OA 21 mg
Safflower Oil
CLA 140 mg
OA 15 mg

Ester-C 500 mg
Co- Q10 300mg
Lecithin 1200 mg
Cinnamon 500mg
SAM-e 200mg
Garlic 650 mg
Gingko Biloba 60mg
Melatonin 3mg
(with L-Theanine 25mg
and B6 10mg)
Niacin 500mg
L-Arginine 1000mg
L-Lysine 500mg
Milk Thistle 1000mg


Occasionals
Blueberry Extract 36:1 500mg
Pomegrante Juice 1000mg


Meds
Plavix
Zetia (yeah, i know about the recent study - my doc poked some big holes in it...)
Metoprolol
Lisinopril
Wellbutrin SR 150 (for weight mgmt)


Sometimes I hit the B-complex sublingual too (has mega dose of B-12)

Recently decided to try (cause it was given to me)
"Cardio Chelate" 2x
EDTA 1200mg
MSM 300 mg
NAC 150 mg

(and I always welcome suggestions...)

here's the multi breakdown:
Link to site : Glacial Milk
 GlacialMilk_Label.gif   84.92KB   200 downloads

Edited by tintinet, 19 January 2008 - 07:26 PM.

[DukeNukem]

>>> pycnogenol (why not grape seed extract?)

Because they contain different procyanidins, just as cocoa and cinnamon do, and likely have different mechanisms of action & benefits. (Likewise, you can't just rely on one antioxidant, or one glycation blocker, etc.) Also, the trademark owner of Pycnogenol has conducted numerous human studies showing many positive benefits, making this one of the best studied non-essential supplements on the market. I take 100mg daily, and NSI brand currently has an amazing deal, 60 x 100mg for $30. At this price, I'm seriously thinking of bumping up to 200mg daily, one morning and one night.

[unbreakable]

I already take 200mg of pycnogenol daily, resveratrol and grape seed extract too. These are some of the most important supplements IMHO.

[pSimonKey]

Excercise
Relaxation
Pleasure
Deprenyl
Resveratrol
Melatonin
Green Tea
Dark Chocolate powder
Fish oils
Undenatured whey isolate
Lecithin
Beta-alanine/Citrulline malate/Creatine combo
Dark green vegetables

[tintinet]

Excercise
Relaxation
Pleasure
Deprenyl
Resveratrol
Melatonin
Green Tea
Dark Chocolate powder
Fish oils
Undenatured whey isolate
Lecithin
Beta-alanine/Citrulline malate/Creatine combo
Dark green vegetables

Just to emphasize: real food

Creatine anti-aging news

[Mind]

I know this probably has been asked before, but maybe opinions have changed. What do you think are the 20 most important supplements for living long and healthy?

This question gets asked every year, so there are probably 5 to 10 different threads that delve into this topic. But that's ok. Opinions do change due to updated research. It will be very instructive to look back at the threads and see what has been added and what has been dropped from the "best supps " list.

[happy]

Are early twenties (20-25) too young to begin taking Deprenyl at low doses 1mg / week or two or three times a week?

[lucid]

Are early twenties (20-25) too young to begin taking Deprenyl at low doses 1mg / week or two or three times a week?

I have read that it is ok and good to take once you have stopped growing. So, it is different for every person, but I think that mid-early twenties would be ok.

[edward]

#1 Good diet, regular exercise, cover nutritional bases with a good multi and run cron-o-meter or manually keep track of nutrients for about a week and fill in gaps.... then

supps only, in no particular order:

resveratrol
grape seed extract
pine bark (generic pycnogenol, actually cheaper than grape seed at BAC)
TMG
carnosine
benfotiamine
curcumin/tumeric
milk thistle
alpha lipoic acid or other varieties (with extra biotin)
acetyl l-carnitine
fish oil (omega 3s)
IP6
pomegranate
astragalus
green tea
cocoa
whey protein
melatonin
hormone supporting supps after blood tests : (dhea, tribulus, Tongkat, anti-estrogen, etc.)
adaptogens : (ashwagandha, rhodiola, bacopa, maca etc.)

to be updated when I think of something else

Edited by edward, 20 January 2008 - 09:41 PM.

[balance]

Just curious Edward. You do know that tribulus and tongkat belong to a category called bullshit... right? DHEA is good, but those other 2 are crap. The rest of your list I agree with, except that you seem to have chosen alpha lipoic acid. Why don't you chose R-lipoic acid instead? Sodium salt version, seems more potent and no synthetic garbage of S half in your body. Is it because the S half might help guard against the oxidation of the R half? In case that's your argument, I'd take note of GeroNova's solution of having 50 percent R-lipoic acid and 50 percent R-dihydro-lipoic acid in 1 capsule. In case you say that biotin possibly gets used up in the equation by lipoic acid in the body, I'd say that in my case at least, I get plenty of it from 2 different supplements (multi and add on multi) + diet.


Add blueberry to that list too. One important thing that is often overlooked is a high quality probiotic, ideally with a good prebiotic (FOS and/or inulin) to go along with it. Check out garden of life's primal defense ultra, or some Jarrow formulations.

Edited by piet3r, 20 January 2008 - 11:23 PM.

[edward]

Just curious Edward. You do know that tribulus and tongkat belong to a category called bullshit... right? DHEA is good, but those other 2 are crap. The rest of your list I agree with, except that you seem to have chosen alpha lipoic acid. Why don't you chose R-lipoic acid instead? Sodium salt version, seems more potent and no synthetic garbage of S half in your body. Is it because the S half might help guard against the oxidation of the R half? In case that's your argument, I'd take note of GeroNova's solution of having 50 percent R-lipoic acid and 50 percent R-dihydro-lipoic acid in 1 capsule. In case you say that biotin possibly gets used up in the equation by lipoic acid in the body, I'd say that in my case at least, I get plenty of it from 2 different supplements (multi and add on multi) + diet.


Add blueberry to that list too. One important thing that is often overlooked is a high quality probiotic, ideally with a good prebiotic (FOS and/or inulin) to go along with it. Check out garden of life's primal defense ultra, or some Jarrow formulations.

In answer to your questions/statements

I have blood tests to prove that tribulus and tongkat ali are not bullshit at least in my body see this link where I posted the info http://www.imminst.o...l=edward testim
73% increase in total testosterone after taking Tongkat Ali, Tribulus, Maca and Saw Palmetto (no other prescription or non prescription test stimulators and no DHEA)
I got a 102% increase in total testosterone from taking testim gel prescribed by my doctor

I think the R versions of Lipoic acid are possibly better than Alpha Lipoic but as far as I can see the issue is only potency. At this point Alpha Lipoic Acid is so much cheaper even taking twice as much of it to get the same amount as the R version. I don't have a problem with the extra inert S half floating around in my body and I doubt it is doing any harm, and possibly doing good in stabilizing the R half. The most notable clinical studies used Alpha Lipoic Acid so as yet I see no reason to shell out more money for the R version (though I did for a little while until I re thought things). Furthermore there is an issue with compatibility of Acetyl L-Carnitine and R-lipoic acid when taken together. Personally I dont want to have to take one, wait around for 30 min to an hour then take the other. I'd rather just take them both at the same time. With regards to the biotin issue, it all depends on how much lipoic acid you take daily. I take 750 mg + per day so extra biotin seems to be a good idea, furthermore it won't hurt you, if anything it will further help control glucose levels.

I was trying to keep my list to around 20 supplements so I didn't include the probiotic, which I do take. Now foods Gr8-Dophilus http://www.iherb.com...c...id=635&at=0 I believe there are also probiotics and prebiotics in the "green" powder supplements I take as well. I would also add things like Deprenyl, Gingko etc etc. but again its a top 20 list. Maybe I should have bumped something for the probiotic as that is very important. Their are also things on my "wish list": ALT-711, EUK-189, NtBHA, BPAP etc. but at this point my regimine is already expensive enough so I really cannot afford them at this point.

In addition, I eat a lot of blueberries (frozen) daily so I didn't include blueberries in my list but yes it does seem to be a good supplement though it seems more cost effective and much more tasty just to buy bulk frozen wild blueberries an eat them daily

Edited by edward, 21 January 2008 - 04:07 AM.

[balance]

Hey Eward. Point made on the biotin if you take that much lipoic acid. It would indeed help with the glucose, though keep in mind other players like chromium would aid for that purpose as well. I hadn't looked at the price difference between the alpha and R versions, but since the manufacturing of R and R-dihydro are more difficult, that is logically more expensive. Good to hear you're taking a pre/probiotic. That said, I would really include it in a top 20 supplement list regardless of what else I would be taking, to me it seems like a very important ingredient. Funnily enough, when I buy frozen blueberries here it actually costs me more money than getting the supplement. Also, not every blueberry you buy has the same potency and taste, and keep in mind, at the end of the day, it still contains a ton of sugar. Diets high in fructose and other sugars have been showing to create copper deficiency in the long run.

Ok so you did a blood test and came up with higher testosterone numbers. That's good, yet you say you were taking quite a bit of supplements, so who says it's the tribulus causing that? On that topic though, if you need any help regarding testosterone levels and how to optimize them naturally, I'm the man to talk to. I've made entire diet regimens, supplements, life style practices regarding optimal testosterone levels, I doubt there's much that I've missed in terms of knowledge about that. So if you need some help, feel free to private message me.

[edward]

Ok so you did a blood test and came up with higher testosterone numbers. That's good, yet you say you were taking quite a bit of supplements, so who says it's the tribulus causing that?

At the time I did the testing my supplement routine was constant, that is the only variables being manipulated were the testosterone boosting supplements tongkat ali, tribulus, maca and I also added saw palmetto. A 73% increase (almost as much as pharmaceutical testosterone) is pretty signifigant. My levels have been around the same or higher since. So I think I have that issue under control under the direction of my doctor, who is amazed at the results I have had from the herbs.

edit: trying not to hijack the thread... so any other top 20 lists?

Edited by edward, 21 January 2008 - 06:15 PM.

[balance]

Ok, indeed lets not hijack the thread. Let me finish that with saying 2 things: 1. congrats on the testo increase. 2. Maca does not increase testo, it makes one feel hornier, but this has been through another mechanism. Go check the research. It increases sperm production too supposedly, but also histidine levels, which supposedly meant you are likely to ejaculate sooner, either way, I definitely did notice that, and found that to be a negative effect, so no maca for me.
Tribulus 'might' increase LH which would work for testo up to a certain point since it's controlled by a feedback system. If you really want a good LH booster, you should check out Velvet deer antler. It's high in IGF-1. now increasing IGF-1 has also been found to increase testo levels, maybe through the LH mechanism.

http://www.rain-tree.com/maca.htm

that site also might help you out.


Now back to the supplement post
The following list is mostly LEF items with exception of the probiotic (garden of life), the vitamin d softgel (carlson), ortho bone (aor), strontium (relentless improvement) About the top 20 supplements, this is what would do it for me, especially if i were older:

age 30-110+ ultimate:

# caps

14 mix
10 ortho bone
4 mitochondrial + SOD
1 SAMe 400mg
3 cognitex + preg
4 arthromax
1 vitamin d3 2000IU softgel
2 strontium 680mg elemental
1 super ubiquinol 100 mg
3 garden of life primal defense ultra + Jarrow FOS&inulin powder
1 DHEA 25mg
2 super omega 3 fish oil
2 blueberry pomegranate cocoa (best supplement for the skin that I have tested so far, amazing results)
2 enhanced digestive enzymes
1 super bio curcumin (new form)
1 super booster k2
1 metyl-b12 sublingual
1 gamma tocotrienols (to get tocotrienols and add on the gamma e in the booster to improve the alpha-gamma ratio)

amino acids
1 scoop whey 8-17grams
creatine 2-5grams
taurine 1-4grams
l-arginine 1-6grams

Some 15mg K2 (Mk-4) in the form of Menatetrenone wouldn't hurt either as a bone and cardiovascular agent.

Edited by piet3r, 21 January 2008 - 11:42 PM.

[s123]

Creatine anti-aging news

Creatine consists of glycine, arginine and methionine. Methionine is proven to shorten the lifespan.

Met restriction resulted in a 42% increase in mean and 44% increase in maximum life span, and in 43% lower body weight compared to controls (P < 0.001). Increases in blood GSH levels of 81% and 164% were observed in mature and old Met-restricted animals, respectively (P < 0.001).

Methionine restriction increases blood glutathione and longevity in F344 rats

[sdxl]

Creatine anti-aging news

Creatine consists of glycine, arginine and methionine. Methionine is proven to shorten the lifespan.

Those amino acids are needed for the biosynthesis of creatine. Creatine is not a tripeptide, so I think the methionine issue is totally irrelevant especially when you supplement with creatine.

[yoyo]

Creatine anti-aging news

Creatine consists of glycine, arginine and methionine. Methionine is proven to shorten the lifespan.

Met restriction resulted in a 42% increase in mean and 44% increase in maximum life span, and in 43% lower body weight compared to controls (P < 0.001). Increases in blood GSH levels of 81% and 164% were observed in mature and old Met-restricted animals, respectively (P < 0.001).

Methionine restriction increases blood glutathione and longevity in F344 rats

you can't conclude it 'shortens lifespan' just because restricting it extends lifespan.

[unbreakable]

The liver produces Creatine from Glycine, Arginine, and Methionine. Does that mean that Creatine = Methionine? NO! Methionine restriction increased life span in mice... Does that mean that Methionine is unhealthy and shortens the lifespan of humans? NO!

[hamishm00]

i think its important to note that the top things for living long and healthy are NOT supplements, and no supplement has ever been proven to extend human lifespan other than through correcting nutritional deficiencies

1) proper stress management
2) proper diet
3) exercise
4) enough sleep
5) pursuit of happiness

and below that are foods that have functional value

6) cruciferous vegetables
7) tea
8) berries
9) spices (turmeric, cumin, coriander, pepper, etc)
10) eggs
11) fiber

12) a broad spectrum, moderately dosed multivitamin & multi mineral
13) vitamin D
14) omega-3
15) magnesium

I would add a slow release Vitamin C (or 500-1000mg vit C every 3 or 4 hours) to that list over and above the small doses you get from the broad spectrum and from the berries.

[health_nutty]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Ortho-core
2) Vitamin D
3) Green Tea Extract
4) Pomegranate Extract (standardized on punicosides)
5) Melatonin
6) Fish Oil
7) Trans-resveratrol
8) ALCAR
9) ALA
10) Benfotiamine
11) Rhodiola
12) Extra Vitamin C
13) Milk Thistle
14) Turmeric
15) Cocoa
16) Taurine
17) Ginger
18) Astaxanthin
19) Carnosine or Beta-alanine
20) Creatine

[mikeinnaples]

Bumping, because this could be one of the most useful threads.


For me in no particular order:

Benfotiamine
ALA (na-rala ..whatever your poison)
ALCAR
Pycogenol
Grape Seed
Resveratrol (dissolved ethanol dispersed lecithin)
Omega-3's
Piracetam w/Choline
Silymarin (dispersed lecithin in olive oil)
Cocoa (raw 100% cold pressed)
Niacin
Bilberry (due to family history)
Vitamin C (3g+)
Vitamin D (regulate based on sun exposure)
IP6
Green Tea
Carnosine
NAC
Curcumin w/bioperine
Melatonin

I would add a good multi to the list, but I think that is a given for most people. A protein source (whey or soy) as well as creatine, should be normal supplements for an active person as well ...leaving them off the list.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 19 May 2008 - 12:48 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Also ....I think this thread should be more about supplements than people's regimens.

[FunkOdyssey]

Also ....I think this thread should be more about supplements than people's regimens.

Well, people are bound to think the supplements they are taking are the "top" supplements, so its hard to escape that association.

[stephen_b]

For a person who has the basic nutritional needs covered, I recommend consideration of these supps, most of which will be boringly familiar:

Duke, I'm surprised that ALA/ALCAR didn't make your top 23 list for those over 40. Do you take it?

Stephen

[mikeinnaples]

Also ....I think this thread should be more about supplements than people's regimens.

Well, people are bound to think the supplements they are taking are the "top" supplements, so its hard to escape that association.

To clarify .....the non-supplement stuff in particular:

1) proper stress management
2) proper diet
3) exercise
4) enough sleep
5) pursuit of happiness

for example... not to say stuff like that itsn't important, but really isn't relevant to supplements.