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Modafinil: 2008 Reviews


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#31 Lurker

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:12 AM

What you have experienced, and what many have stated in anecdotes, are all known side effects. This is quoted directly from the Provigil website:


The most common side effects of PROVIGIL are headache, nausea, nervousness,
stuffy nose, diarrhea, back pain, anxiety, trouble sleeping, dizziness, and upset
stomach.

Provigil.com

Confusion, Dizzeyness, Anxiety, and even Depression are all also reported rare side affects, and this is directly from the Cephlon, the makers of Provigil. Which may describe what several several users have experienced have explained here.

If you experience extreme effects, you my want to consider reducing the dosage. In personal experience: the productive affects are best at low dosages, i have experienced slight nausea and anxiety with Modalert, taking half the dosage i took with Provigil has helped this.
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#32 Lurker

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:17 AM

While I'm thinking about it, my Modalert tablets are a semi-gloss white, round, small bevel (If I can recall), scored on one side, no markings on the other. I'm sure they are, but I have to ask: does that describe yours as well?


Yes, if scored means a indented line down the middle of one side of the pill, they are the same (200mg).
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#33 atomic

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 08:17 AM

Three days of Adrafinil @ 600 mg. (As we're all aware, Adrafinil metabolizes into Modafinil.)

Absolutely no effect whatsoever, except rank-smelling urine and feces. Tried both splitting the dose and taking it all at once, as well as on empty and full stomachs. 32 years old, male, healthy.

Although some reports indicate a week or two may be necessary for the stuff to become effective, the smell of my excretions is too overwhelming to allow me to continue the experiment, considering that I am getting zero results. After reading of so many positive experiences with this substance, it's with disappointment that I am now giving up on it.
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#34 wootwoot

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 06:00 AM

About 5 years ago I was given a prescription for modafinil 200mgs a day. It did absolutely nothing. For all I know I was taking a sugar pill. I did have the side effects that atomic mentions, my pee did smell pretty bad. Anyways after this not working my doc put my on a high dose of ritalin which did help with concentration and helped me a lot.
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#35 cleanser

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 07:39 PM

About 5 years ago I was given a prescription for modafinil 200mgs a day. It did absolutely nothing. For all I know I was taking a sugar pill. I did have the side effects that atomic mentions, my pee did smell pretty bad. Anyways after this not working my doc put my on a high dose of ritalin which did help with concentration and helped me a lot.


After reading all these posts I appreciate the other users views and experiences with modafinil. I have tried brand name Provigil and the Sun Pharma ModAlert. During my review of ModAlert I was skeptical about its efficacy when compared to the cephalon brand name product. After taking brand name provigil for a few days I made the switch to ModAlert. When comparing these two drugs i can honestly say that ModAlert had very similar effects on alertness and wakefulness as Provigil at the same dosage. I must however say that I did feel that the common side effects of Modafinil such as headache and nausea were noticibly more pronounced when using the modalert. This must have something to due with the different formulations of these products.

Since the provigil is way too expensive for me to obtain, I think I will stick with using modalert due to my monetary issues. I still need more time to review how well this will help me concentrate for upcoming exams.
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#36 purerealm

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 06:23 AM

When I first tried modafinil, 100 mg, it made me much more productive. It is nearly impossible for me to take on a task without my mind drifting away, but the provigil helped me stay on task, and it was effective at combating the excessive fatigue i experience everyday. At higher doses, anxiety rendered a lot of the positive effects useless

However after a period of about half a year, the initial positive effects aren't really there anymore, and instead of feeling on-task and wide awake, now the provigil can actually make me feel more tired and sleepy.
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#37 HeD

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 05:15 AM

I've been using Sun's Modalert now for 3+ months and can confirm that it does indeed work. I've never taken Provigil or Alertec so I can't compare, they may in fact be more effective but my quality of life has skyrocketed since I started taking Modalert. I suffer from an undiagnosed sleep disorder (I believe it's an atypical manifestation of narcolepsy, my doctor disagrees) which causes me problems if I sleep more than 4-5 hours a night. I enter REM sleep immediately and seem to persist in that state for most of my sleep cycle. If I wake up after 4 hours I am tired but mentally alert and feel relatively normal. If I continue to sleep past the 6 hour mark I suffer from serious mental impairment upon waking, that can persist for several days. The more sleep, the worse it gets. If I sleep for 8 or 9 hours my symptoms begin to mimic some of those of narcolepsy, sleep paralysis, hypnopompic hallucinations and excessive daytime sleepiness. This condition had come on quite gradually over the last 7 years and I was unaware of the extent to which I was being affected until I was forced to stay awake for 2 days straight to meet a deadline. After the second day of sleep deprivation I was exhausted but the mental fog had lifted and I realized that I hadn't felt that good in years. I experimented with sleep deprivation a little and discovered the 4-5 hour threshold. Unfortunately living on 4 hours sleep a night proved difficult, even with short daytime naps I was crashing after 5-7 days and reverting back to 8-10 hours of sleep with the resulting draining negative effects. To make a long story short (too late?), when I discovered modafinil everything changed. I started taking 100mg every 8 hours (3 times daily) and saw an immediate improvement. Eventually I upped the dosage to 200mg every 8 hours and am now symptom and sleep deprivation free. I sleep 3 hours a night with 3-4 20 minute naps a day. The modafinil keeps me awake when I need to be and doesn't affect my ability to sleep (I fall asleep very quickly, usually less than a minute). Side effects are negligible, I felt a little jittery as it was wearing off the first two times I took 100mg doses but I haven't noticed any side effects that can definitely be attributed to Modalert since then. As a result I feel better than I ever have, my mood, focus, creativity, coordination and sex drive have vastly improved. I am exponentially more productive at work and home and no longer feel the persistent need to always lie down. I guess my point is that, for people with debilitating sleep disorders modafinil is a Godsend and can, both literally and figuratively, be the difference between night and day. Perhaps a healthy person taking Modalert to improve on their "normal" state may not necessarily notice the effects as readily, but in my case the effectiveness of Modalert cannot be disputed.

So that's my review of modafinil (Modalert) 5 out of 5 stars, 2 thumbs up, Viva la Modafinil!

BTW, if anyone has any insight into my symptoms or have experienced anything similar, I'd be interested in hearing from you. It's a 2-3 year wait here to get a sleep study done at a clinic and 6-8 months to see a neurologist (unless you're dying, but I'm not in that much of a rush :p )


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#38 sharp

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 04:57 PM

I'm living in Europe and would like to get Modafinil (Provigil, Alertec, Vigicer, Vigil, Modalert). Any ideas about any sources? Maybe anyone is selling it? And how about sending it to the country where it isn't registered?
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#39 jCole

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 04:10 PM

How long have you taken Modafinil?
About 9 months. Tried Provigil, Modapro and Modalert, and they all seem to be the same to me.

What dose do you use?
100mg... taking 200mg is too much and has the opposite effect on me.

What is your frequency rate (daily/as needed)?
Every morning when I wake up, then I cycle off on the weekends.

Why do you use Modafinil (for motivation/stimulation, ADHD, fatigue/narcolepsy, SAD, depression, overcoming sleep deprivation, etc)?
Focus, concentration and energy.

How effective has it been for you?
Changed my life. Motivated me to get off my ass and start working out, eating healthy and ultimately, discovered this forum do to my new found love for health & nutrition.

Edited by jCole, 01 August 2008 - 04:13 PM.

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#40 jCole

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 04:23 PM

MODALERT DOES NOT WORK!



I've tried Modalert, Provigil & Modapro and they all had the same effect on me at the same dosage. The only difference was that Provigil burned a hole in my wallet.

Edited by jCole, 01 August 2008 - 04:23 PM.

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#41 juanjo_asdf

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 08:45 PM

I began taking Provigil last week, after receiving a prescription for it. I am 22 years old and am under a lot of academic stress so I use Modafinil to keep me motivated/and focused.

I have been experimenting with dosage but so far I've been taking 50/mg twice a week in the mornings and sometimes 50mg morning 50mg afternoon.

Its effects are definitely noticeable in a positive manner. I am able to focus on a given task, my mood has slightly improved (I don't know if it's because of the Modafinil or the deprenyl (1mg/week)), and I have noticed an immediate improvement in memory retention.

I've noticed its effects are more subtle if you sleep 8-10 hours, and the one time I used it when I had only had 4-6 hours of sleep physically I was tired but I was mentally able to function as if I had slept 8-10hours.

Happy



I advise against combining modafinil and deprenyl. Ive read a few people posting against and had presonal experiences that made me not consider this combo ever!

Anxiety, lack of concentration, going compulsively into thought loops etc...
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#42 dismeds

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:23 PM

Hello,

I have been selling Generic Provigil to alot of the clients becuase the price for Branded Provigil in USA is very expensive as one person said burns a hole in their wallet.

There is nothing wrong with Generic Provigil as it has the same ingredient in both branded & generic that is Modafinil.

You can get it cheaper at

***

*** usually ships the order within 24 hours and you should receive between 10 - 12 business days.

Cheers
Dismeds

(edited by Matthias: links removed)

Edited by Matthias, 05 September 2008 - 12:43 AM.

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#43 manx

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:10 PM

I love Modafinil, guarantees me alertness whenever I need it.
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#44 DanielSon

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:15 AM

Hello,

I have been selling Generic Provigil to alot of the clients becuase the price for Branded Provigil in USA is very expensive as one person said burns a hole in their wallet.

There is nothing wrong with Generic Provigil as it has the same ingredient in both branded & generic that is Modafinil.

You can get it cheaper at

***

*** usually ships the order within 24 hours and you should receive between 10 - 12 business days.

Cheers
Dismeds





Your prices aren't great for generic modafinil. I pay only 15-25% more for legal, brand-name, doctor prescribed modafinil at my local pharmacy.


(edited by Matthias: links removed)

Edited by Matthias, 05 September 2008 - 12:44 AM.

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#45 jCole

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:27 PM

Yeh, I can buy ModAlet, Modapro or Modafil for around 30-60 bucks for a pack of 30/200mg.

Currently paying 29 bucks for a pack of 30/200mg via Visapharmacy...(Modafil brand)

Edited by jCole, 06 August 2008 - 11:28 PM.

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#46 nancy_axel

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 10:07 PM

Excellent article on Modafinil's effectiveness in treating ADHD:
http://www.neuropsyc....modafinil.html

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PHASE III TRIALS DEMONSTRATE MODAFINIL EFFICACY IN ADHD ATLANTA— Two phase III clinical trials presented at the 158th Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association show that pediatric formulation modafinil is an effective new treatment for ADHD in children and adolescents and might be a safer alternative to the stimulant drugs now used.

INCREASED ALERTNESS AND TASK PERFORMANCE

In the first trial, James M. Swanson, PhD, Director of the Child Development Center at the University of California, Irvine, and colleagues evaluated the new modafinil pediatric formulation in children and adolescents with ADHD. "Modafinil increases alertness and task performance. It has been shown to be very effective and is widely used to treat excessive sleepiness, particularly narcolepsy. It appears to activate the prefrontal cortex in a different way than the stimulant drugs, and exploratory studies in attention-deficit disorder had looked at potential doses that might be effective for the treatment of ADHD," Dr. Swanson said. "The next step was to try to adapt modafinil for pediatric use with a smaller, easier- to-take formulation targeting the doses the initial study suggested were the optimal for the treatment of ADHD."

Dr. Swanson reported data from a nine-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial looking at flexible dosing with the new film-coated tablets of modafinil. The trial enrolled 194 patients ages 6 to 17 who met DSM-IV criteria for ADHD. All subjects were at least moderately ill by the Clinical Global Impression (CGI) rating, had normal intelligence, and were attending school full-time. Exclusions included failure to respond to previous stimulant therapy and untreated psychiatric comorbidities. One hundred twenty-eight patients were randomized to modafinil and 66 to placebo in a two-to-one randomization.

Patients randomized to modafinil had a starting dose of 85 mg titrated for a period of 22 days to clinical effect with once-daily dosing. The maximum dose was 425 mg/day. "The majority of the modafinil-treated group ended up on 425 mg per day," Dr. Swanson said. Efficacy was assessed with the School (teacher-rated) and Home (parent-rated) ADHD rating scale (ADHD-RX-IV), the Clinical Global Impression of Improvement (CGI-I), and the Test of Variables of Attention (TOVA).

The modafinil-treated patients had significantly greater improvement on the teacher-rated scores than did placebo-treated patients (-17.5 versus -9.7 mean change, respectively). The modafinil-treated patients also had significant improvement in the parent-rated scores (-17.5 versus -7.5). Dr. Swanson said that modafinil significantly improved the inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity ADHD-RS-IV subscales, the overall clinical condition as measured by the CGI-I, and the TOVA measurements of ADHD. "Parent observations favor modafinil, particularly regarding the impact on parent time, on emotions, and on social skills. This represents an increase in positive as well as a decrease in negative behaviors," he remarked.

The most common adverse effects were insomnia (28% modafinil versus 7% placebo), headache (22% versus 9%), and decreased appetite (18% versus 3%). "These are the typical side effects observed with stimulants as well. Insomnia and appetite effects occurred early on and tended to decrease over time. Treatment discontinuation due to these factors was very rare," Dr. Swanson said. There were no clinically significant changes in vital signs or in electrocardiographic, or laboratory parameters, and no serious adverse events. Weight loss occurred, but it was not clinically significant.

AFFECTING THE NETWORK OF ATTENTION

Dr. Swanson acknowledged that modafinil's mechanism of action in ADHD is unknown, but he proposed a possible mechanism in the context of the neuroanatomical network theory of attention. This theory proposes three underlying processes of attention: alerting, orienting, and executive control. Alerting networks are thought to reside in the right frontal cortex, and increasing wakefulness or alerting might improve that component of attention. Such stimulation might also interact with executive control.

"Dopaminergic neurons and the ventral tegmentum area of the substantia nigra project up into the caudate nucleus and the nucleus accumbens, and also directly into the anterior cingulate gyrus and to the prefrontal cortex," Dr. Swanson said. "The stimulus operates by blocking the reuptake of dopamine, primarily in the caudate nucleus and the nucleus accumbens, and activating the cortical striata thalamic loops. The activation of the cingulate gyrus and the frontal cortex has been well studied with stimulant drugs, which have been used for over a half century to treat attention deficit disorders."

Instead of this bottom-up effect of blocking the dopamine transporter, Dr. Swanson proposed that modafinil might activate the anterior cingulate cortex. This, in turn, might affect executive function and alertness in ADHD.

EFFECTIVE DOSING

The second modafinil study presented was from Joseph Biederman, MD, and colleagues at Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston. They reported that the new modafinil pediatric formulation, given using weight-adjusted once-daily dosages, is effective and well-tolerated even with rapid dose escalation, and that this formulation does not cause withdrawal or rebound symptoms if suddenly stopped.

Patients in this study were similar to those in the Swanson study (ages 6 to 17, met DSM-IV criteria for moderate to severe ADHD). The protocol was a double-blind, placebo-controlled, two-to-one randomization to modafinil or placebo. Twenty patients were randomized to seven weeks of modafinil and 63 patients to placebo, followed by two weeks of withdrawal study. During the withdrawal period, half of the modafinil-treated patients were converted to placebo without dose tapering, and half continued taking modafinil. "This was to examine the effect of a common event, such as patients flushing their medications down the toilet after an argument with their parents," Dr. Biederman said. "We wanted to know the consequences of stopping abruptly if you are taking a reasonably high dose." Dr. Biederman is Chief of Clinical and Research in Pediatric Psychopharmacology at Massachusetts General Hospital and Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.

Modafinil was given once daily, starting at 85 mg/day and increasing for a period of seven or nine days to 340 mg for patients weighing less than 30 kg or 425 mg for patients weighing more than 30 kg. Efficacy was assessed with both the School and the Home ADHD-RS-IV total score change from baseline to last on-treatment visit.

"After one week, the modafinil-treated patients had significantly greater improvement in School ADHD-RS-IV scores versus the placebo-treated patients and the effect was maintained through week 7," Dr. Biederman said. The improvement in School ADHD-RS-IV at week 7 was -17.2 for patients receiving modafinil versus -8.2 for those receiving placebo. Modafinil also significantly improved total scores on the Home ADHD-RS-IV. Dr. Biederman noted that patients continued to improve over the ensuing weeks after reaching the upper dose level.

NO REBOUND

ADHD symptoms did not rebound when placebo replaced modafinil, and the most common adverse effects were similar to those in the Swanson study: insomnia, headache, appetite decrease, and abdominal pain. "They were related to treatment initiation and generally resolved with continued treatment. There were very few discontinuations as a result of adverse effects. Weight loss was statistically significant but there was a very modest change in weight," Dr. Biederman said.

The lack of rebound or withdrawal after abrupt discontinuation is likely to be an important point for clinicians. "The activation of dopamine not only impacts on the cortex, where the old medications work, but also affects other areas, such as the nucleus accumbens, and as a result the potential for abuse is a hazard," Dr. Biederman said. "Modafinil is a scheduled drug, but it is a schedule IV drug, which is a big difference in practice for the practitioner as well as for the patient."

"In summary," Dr. Biederman concluded, "modafinil was effective in improving ADHD symptoms and behaviors. There was consistent and sustained improvement in school and after hours as reported by parents. A significant treatment effect was observed by week one. That was the week that the titration was completed. Symptoms and behaviors improved and as maintenance treatment continued, there was continued improvement."

—Janis Kelly

Suggested Reading
American Academy of Pediatrics. Clinical practice guidelines: diagnosis and evaluation of the child with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Pediatrics. 2000;105:1158-1170.
Rugino TA, Samsock TC. Modafinil in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Pediatr Neurol. 2003;29:136-142.




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In my experience (I have PI-ADD), I have found modafinil to be totally useless. Its a wake promoting substance that gives a mild euphoria at first. The average add patient thinks something good is happening. Thoughts are more manageable (at first). Within a few hours, one finds that coffee was more effective at alleviating the inattentive aspect of the ADD than modafinil, which has extremely unpredictable effects (half life and all). If you must, take it 30 minutes before food to increase absorption.
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#47 stephen_b

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:18 PM

Therefore, based on my assessment, the evidence overwhelmingly points to one conclusion ---> MODALERT DOES NOT WORK! Now, if someone out there claims to have tried both Modalert & Provigil, and based on extensive experience with both comes to the conclusion that Modalert is superior to Provigil, then I will have nothing more to say about the matter presuming they are being honest, BUT, I have yet to see such a claim, and I doubt I ever will.

I've only tried modalert, and for me at least it works (I use it occasionally for alertness, especially when I don't get as much sleep as I should). I find 100 mg is too much, but 50 mg is just right.

Stephen
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#48 Mouser

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:48 AM

How long: 7 Weeks, usually 3-5 days per week

Dosage: 100mg-400mg

Frequency: once or twice per day, usually just once early morning

Why: excessive daytime sleepiness possibly caused by poor sleep consolidation (many non-apnea arousals at night, >100)

How effective: Not at all (US retail Provigil brand). Started at 100mg and experienced headache and possible slight decrease in sleepiness. At 300-400 some shortness of breath experienced. At no point did it come anywhere close to what one cup of coffee would do, if it was doing anything at all. I didn't experience any strange smell in urine, so I wonder if there's some sort of metabolic difference that might be the key for why it didn't work for me or others.

I've been considering another possible explanation for why it doesn't work for some. Since it's thought that modafinil might work on orexin receptors, is it possible that it doesn't work for people who have irregularities with the orexin system (there's growing evidence that narcoleptics have abnormalities with orexins)?
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#49 nancy_axel

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 04:07 PM

Yeh, I can buy ModAlet, Modapro or Modafil for around 30-60 bucks for a pack of 30/200mg.

Currently paying 29 bucks for a pack of 30/200mg via Visapharmacy...(Modafil brand)


Do you notice a difference in quality and improvement between the brands?
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#50 john16

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:56 PM

do you guys think it would be ok to buy modafinil bulk powder, given you already know how to cap your own stuff? It seems to be a hell of a lot cheaper this way...
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#51 fractalfarm

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 12:47 AM

I took it 2-3 years ago, for about 3-4 months. I was prescribed it for narcolepsy, but I also have ADD. I found it pretty much worthless. It felt like it completely lacked dopaminergic properties, so it didn't do shit for my ADD. It also gave me myoclonic jerks and muscle twitches. It would help for about an hour, then wear off. After a couple months it really lost any effectiveness it once had. The annoying thing about it, was that it prevented me from taking naps, even though I was tired. It also made me feel like not myself, I just felt weird emotionally, reminded me of methylphenidate in that respect. One thing I did notice that helped synergize the effects was some ginseng blend I had. Think it might have been Korean ginseng or something.

I gave a few to my brother before, and he originally found it helped him get through work easier. After a while he noticed that it didn't work anymore, and made him feel weird emotionally as well. Some people around here seem to love the stuff tho. Just my 2 cents on my experience with the chem. I take phenylpiracetam and transdermal deprenyl now, and find it much more effective.

Oh yeah. I forget the exact dose I took, but I think I did work up to the max recommended dose or something near there. Either 400 or 600mg max, I forget tho.

Edited by fractalfarm, 26 October 2008 - 12:50 AM.

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#52 M.speciosa

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 03:53 AM

I took it 2-3 years ago, for about 3-4 months. I was prescribed it for narcolepsy, but I also have ADD. I found it pretty much worthless. It felt like it completely lacked dopaminergic properties, so it didn't do shit for my ADD. It also gave me myoclonic jerks and muscle twitches. It would help for about an hour, then wear off. After a couple months it really lost any effectiveness it once had. The annoying thing about it, was that it prevented me from taking naps, even though I was tired. It also made me feel like not myself, I just felt weird emotionally, reminded me of methylphenidate in that respect. One thing I did notice that helped synergize the effects was some ginseng blend I had. Think it might have been Korean ginseng or something. I gave a few to my brother before, and he originally found it helped him get through work easier. After a while he noticed that it didn't work anymore, and made him feel weird emotionally as well. Some people around here seem to love the stuff tho. Just my 2 cents on my experience with the chem. I take phenylpiracetam and transdermal deprenyl now, and find it much more effective. Oh yeah. I forget the exact dose I took, but I think I did work up to the max recommended dose or something near there. Either 400 or 600mg max, I forget tho.

I've been getting myoclonic jerks all the time for the past couple months (I don't take Modafinil). About 60% of them are when I'm trying to fall asleep, and the other 40% when I'm awake. I'm really worried about these jerks, as I've never had them before these couple months. Is this something to be worried/concerned about? I take Lyrica (Pregabalin), Adderall, Emsam, and Suboxone (Buprenorphine). I don't know if any of these meds could be causing this. If anyone is educated on this subject your input would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. Sorry, I don't mean to de-rail this thread, I'm just worried about these damn jerks!

Edited by M.speciosa, 27 October 2008 - 03:53 AM.

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#53 Centurion

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:24 AM

You guys are all so lucky being able to actually get a prescription for this stuff!
I'm usually quite tired these days, yet were I to go to a doctor about it, the likes of modafinil just wouldnt enter into it. Sleep, vitamin B6, light exercise (all things I have already attempted)
Don't you get hooked on it though? If not physically but mentally, or socially become dependent on the effect on your life and those around you?
I'd imagine myself dreading the inevitable ability decline once going off them?
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#54 steelsky

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 10:39 AM

Note to the members claiming it's worthless. I've noticed that you took very high dosages. That might be the reason for your side effects and even lack of expected positive effect. I don't know about Modafinil, but with Methylphenidate - There is a peak above which the effect is reversed. It's consider a stimulant, but taking high enough doses makes it a sort of sedative.
This is similar to the theory about l-dopa, if I'm not mistaken, given to catatonics at high doses.

Did you try taking it for a while at the standard dose of 100mg?

I'm going to try 100mg in a couple of days and report my impressions.
So far been on Ritalin for sleepiness, but found that while indeed stimulating - the tiredness feeling still exists.
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#55 jCole

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 04:58 PM

Note to the members claiming it's worthless. I've noticed that you took very high dosages. That might be the reason for your side effects and even lack of expected positive effect. I don't know about Modafinil, but with Methylphenidate - There is a peak above which the effect is reversed. It's consider a stimulant, but taking high enough doses makes it a sort of sedative.
This is similar to the theory about l-dopa, if I'm not mistaken, given to catatonics at high doses.

Did you try taking it for a while at the standard dose of 100mg?

I'm going to try 100mg in a couple of days and report my impressions.
So far been on Ritalin for sleepiness, but found that while indeed stimulating - the tiredness feeling still exists.




Agreed.

I found if you take too much is has quite the profound opposite effect on me.

But if I take between 50-100mg's....it does wonders.
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#56 leaving_florida

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 04:45 PM

My 2 cents.

Unfortunately, I've exhausted my desire for an in-depth review of my experience and research on this topic because I've spent the past year on similar message boards in similar discussions. Therefore, you'll just have to take my advice at face value.

My background: I've extensively tried Modalert, Modiodal (from manufacturer of Provigil - Celphalon), Modvigil (NOT Modavigil! Modvigil is an Indian brand from Hab pharm), and Ritalin. *All of these were acquired over the Internet.

Throughout the past year, I've experimented with every combination and dosage I could imagine (even sub-lingual delivery). I've researched patents, particle sizes, read expert analysis' written by people who obviously are much more knowledgable than I will ever be, and even reviewed legal documents/agreements between Sun and Cephalon in regards to Modafinil. My conclusion after 3 months was probably much different after 6 months, which was then the opposite at 9 months, which was then different than today.... get the picture? To save everyone from the usual rant with details, I'll sum it by concluding - Modalert by Sun is the best deal "financially speaking". But, if you want a broader perspective, keep reading until the end.

About Modalert: This is a strange beast. You name it - I've tried it. 25mgs a day. 50mgs a day. 100mgs a day, 200mgs, 300, etc. There are so many small details involed in the Modalert/Provigil debate that I don't think we could ever get to the bottom of this unless we had board-certified members from Cephalon and Sun right here in the message board. For example, are most people aware that Modalert is a "coated" tablet and Provigil is not? Does this change or delay the onset? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's just one small piece of a giant puzzle. Anyway... It wasn't until recently that I personally "learned" how to use Modalert. All of us serve as our own individual chemcial factories - that's what the human body is. And, we all respond different when a chemcial is added to the mix. With Modalert, there was a time when I gave up. The headaches were too brutal, the effects were non-existing, and the side-effects were too anxiety-provoking. By educating myself and experimenting, I've learned how to get this product to work for me. I don't want to chance the topic of my overall message, so for anyone interested, I'll briefly explain "what" I do now, but I won't explain the "why" and "how". My recipe: I take 150mgs of Modalert first thing in the morning... on an empty stomach... and I do NOT eat for at least 2-3 hours. About 2 hours after my first meal, I take another 100mgs, and then I don't eat again for at least 2 hours.

About all of them - Modalert, Modvigil, and Modiodal: In one way or the other, they're all the same. What I mean is... some days you think they're working, other days you don't. Some days you think you feel bad, other days you don't. The one consistency has ironically been a lack of consistency. What does all of this mean? It means that you have to take a step back and understand your objective and put it into perspective. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me - we don't have energy in life, we're always fatigued, and we want to take this magic pill and suddenly become these extremely motivated workaholics and rise amongst our peers. Well, it CAN happen, but you need to rethink your approach. From everything I have researched, two resources have had the most impact because they both offer a theory that I discovered to be more true than most (one source was a reputable psychiatrist and the other was a study from Oxford).

Here is what I have learned: Modafinil will help you focus - that's a fact. But, that's all it does. Stop and think about that for a moment. It will help you focus. But, helping you focus doesn't equate to giving you "energy". Improving your focus doesn't metabolize into "motivation". If you focus on whether or not the Modalert you took 2 hours ago is working, you'll be pretty good at continually diagnosing yourself every 10 mins. If you focus on possible side-effects you think you're feeling, you'll be pretty good at paying attention to the smallest abnormalities, and maybe even "think" yourself into a real panic-attack. If you focus on the TV show you're watching... you'll do a great job at watching the show. If you focus on talking on the phone, you'll be highly engaged in a conversation. If you focus on laying on the couch and being lazy, you'll be the best couch potato in town. And likewise, if you submerse yourself into a project or work, you'll become obsessed and do a great job. The point is - I had to stop seeing Modafinil as a body "stimulant", and start seeing it as a "focusing stimulant" because that's exactly what it is. Getting modafinil to work as good as advertised requires a balance between different factors: the product itself (dosage), your diet, and your attitude. Once you can find the balance between those three, modafinil, such as Sun's Modalert, will do it's job. But, if you think you're going to take a pill and suddenly come to life, you're taking the wrong thing. For those who do claim that modafinil performs this miracle, I would say it's initially a placebo effect that creates a change of attitude, and then the modafinil will improves their focus on whatever it is they are doing. Essentially, it's up to your own will power to cause yourself to begin doing what you want to do, and let modafinil assist you. Think of modafinil as the gasoline in your car. Even with a full tank of gas, a car just sits along a street. It's useless. It doesn't move. It doesn't respond. It does nothing. But, if you get inside and start the engine, you then allow the gasoline to do it's job and the car becomes very beneficial.

I'm no scientist, but I'm smart enough to have understood one thing from all of the research of I have read - all of the stimulants stimulate your brain in different areas and in different ways. Without getting technial (because I'm not smart enough to speak that jargon anyway), Ritalin will stimulate your brain and improve your concentration, but it actually lessens your "creativity". Therefore, many stimulants will enhance some areas of your brain, but decrease activity in another area. It happens to be that Modafinil is pretty good at stimulating areas that are great for concentration and attention, and not the areas responsible for over-exciting the CNS.

The other factor I'll briefly touch on: Diet. Is is also a fact that if I eat an entire bag of cookies at this moment, a chemical process will occur in my body within the next hour, and it WILL effect the way I feel - 100% fact. The spike of simple sugar in my blood will cause my pancreas to over-compensate with the production of insulin. The insulin will then lower my blood sugar level fast and efficiently. I will then have a lower blood sugar level than before I ate the cookies. Why is this important? Because the brain lives off of glucose (which isn't in cookies by the way). Unlike other areas in your body, your brain cannot "store" glucose, so it relies on a consistent level of glucose in your blood. Your brain needs glucose so much that each brain cell uses twice as much glucose as any other cell in your body! Therefore, after experiencing a significant drop in glucose, your brain begins to starve and malfunction because it's primary and only source of energy is glucose. By the way, intense mential activity will cause your brain to rapidly burn glucose. So, I'm not giving a lecture on diet, but I'm trying to plant that seed to some people that there IS a balance involved in the human body. And because we don't get modafinil for free, if you want to get the most out of the product, try your best to keep your body in a healthy state that will create a better probability for positive results.

And finally, caffeine. Caffeine is truly a unique substance. And, I'm not referring to your morning cup of coffee. By the way, a coffee with sugar is a recipe for a mental and physical crash due to the combination. Anyway, what I'm referring to is "caffeine" - the unadulterated chemical. Brain scans have revealed that caffeine, unlike expensive and popular drugs like ritalin and modafinil, act as a true "global" brain stimulant. Imagine that huh? Caffeine actually stimulates your brain in more areas than those expensive drugs. That's precisely why it provides a global response in varying effects - some people feel great, some can concentrate, some get jittery (CNS), etc. The truth is, if used properly, caffeine can be your best friend. Some will find this hard to believe, but the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research conducted a study and found caffeine to be equally as effective as modafinil. Don't believe me? Most of us are tolerant to the effects of caffeine because we consume so much coffee each day, but take this challenge! Stop all caffeine products for two weeks. Wake up one morning, swallow a 200mg pill of caffeine, and let me know how you feel. I tried it - and the result was amazing! Modafinil could not come close in the comparison to caffeine in that instance. If you exhaust your supply of modafinil but need a lift for a big day at work - Try this... caffeine is used best if taken in small doses throughout the day. Purchase some 200mg caffeine pills and a "pill-spliter". Take 1-2 pills, divide each pill up into 4 separate pieces (should contain approximately 50mgs of caffeine each). Then, take each piece every 40 mins. Within approximately 1.5 hours, you will notice a sustaned and very defined mental high and clarity. You'll be on fire. You won't crash. You'll be able to think clearly and be heavily involved in your work. In fact, I would argue it's better than modafinil (definitely more stimulating and noticeable), but the only problem is that humans build up a tolerance to caffeine very fast.

Anyway... that's my 2 cents on my year of experiementation with researching and using modafinil.
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#57 Ghostrider

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 06:35 AM

My 2 cents.

Unfortunately, I've exhausted my desire for an in-depth review of my experience and research on this topic because I've spent the past year on similar message boards in similar discussions. Therefore, you'll just have to take my advice at face value.

My background: I've extensively tried Modalert, Modiodal (from manufacturer of Provigil - Celphalon), Modvigil (NOT Modavigil! Modvigil is an Indian brand from Hab pharm), and Ritalin. *All of these were acquired over the Internet.

Throughout the past year, I've experimented with every combination and dosage I could imagine (even sub-lingual delivery). I've researched patents, particle sizes, read expert analysis' written by people who obviously are much more knowledgable than I will ever be, and even reviewed legal documents/agreements between Sun and Cephalon in regards to Modafinil. My conclusion after 3 months was probably much different after 6 months, which was then the opposite at 9 months, which was then different than today.... get the picture? To save everyone from the usual rant with details, I'll sum it by concluding - Modalert by Sun is the best deal "financially speaking". But, if you want a broader perspective, keep reading until the end.

About Modalert: This is a strange beast. You name it - I've tried it. 25mgs a day. 50mgs a day. 100mgs a day, 200mgs, 300, etc. There are so many small details involed in the Modalert/Provigil debate that I don't think we could ever get to the bottom of this unless we had board-certified members from Cephalon and Sun right here in the message board. For example, are most people aware that Modalert is a "coated" tablet and Provigil is not? Does this change or delay the onset? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's just one small piece of a giant puzzle. Anyway... It wasn't until recently that I personally "learned" how to use Modalert. All of us serve as our own individual chemcial factories - that's what the human body is. And, we all respond different when a chemcial is added to the mix. With Modalert, there was a time when I gave up. The headaches were too brutal, the effects were non-existing, and the side-effects were too anxiety-provoking. By educating myself and experimenting, I've learned how to get this product to work for me. I don't want to chance the topic of my overall message, so for anyone interested, I'll briefly explain "what" I do now, but I won't explain the "why" and "how". My recipe: I take 150mgs of Modalert first thing in the morning... on an empty stomach... and I do NOT eat for at least 2-3 hours. About 2 hours after my first meal, I take another 100mgs, and then I don't eat again for at least 2 hours.

About all of them - Modalert, Modvigil, and Modiodal: In one way or the other, they're all the same. What I mean is... some days you think they're working, other days you don't. Some days you think you feel bad, other days you don't. The one consistency has ironically been a lack of consistency. What does all of this mean? It means that you have to take a step back and understand your objective and put it into perspective. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me - we don't have energy in life, we're always fatigued, and we want to take this magic pill and suddenly become these extremely motivated workaholics and rise amongst our peers. Well, it CAN happen, but you need to rethink your approach. From everything I have researched, two resources have had the most impact because they both offer a theory that I discovered to be more true than most (one source was a reputable psychiatrist and the other was a study from Oxford).

Here is what I have learned: Modafinil will help you focus - that's a fact. But, that's all it does. Stop and think about that for a moment. It will help you focus. But, helping you focus doesn't equate to giving you "energy". Improving your focus doesn't metabolize into "motivation". If you focus on whether or not the Modalert you took 2 hours ago is working, you'll be pretty good at continually diagnosing yourself every 10 mins. If you focus on possible side-effects you think you're feeling, you'll be pretty good at paying attention to the smallest abnormalities, and maybe even "think" yourself into a real panic-attack. If you focus on the TV show you're watching... you'll do a great job at watching the show. If you focus on talking on the phone, you'll be highly engaged in a conversation. If you focus on laying on the couch and being lazy, you'll be the best couch potato in town. And likewise, if you submerse yourself into a project or work, you'll become obsessed and do a great job. The point is - I had to stop seeing Modafinil as a body "stimulant", and start seeing it as a "focusing stimulant" because that's exactly what it is. Getting modafinil to work as good as advertised requires a balance between different factors: the product itself (dosage), your diet, and your attitude. Once you can find the balance between those three, modafinil, such as Sun's Modalert, will do it's job. But, if you think you're going to take a pill and suddenly come to life, you're taking the wrong thing. For those who do claim that modafinil performs this miracle, I would say it's initially a placebo effect that creates a change of attitude, and then the modafinil will improves their focus on whatever it is they are doing. Essentially, it's up to your own will power to cause yourself to begin doing what you want to do, and let modafinil assist you. Think of modafinil as the gasoline in your car. Even with a full tank of gas, a car just sits along a street. It's useless. It doesn't move. It doesn't respond. It does nothing. But, if you get inside and start the engine, you then allow the gasoline to do it's job and the car becomes very beneficial.

I'm no scientist, but I'm smart enough to have understood one thing from all of the research of I have read - all of the stimulants stimulate your brain in different areas and in different ways. Without getting technial (because I'm not smart enough to speak that jargon anyway), Ritalin will stimulate your brain and improve your concentration, but it actually lessens your "creativity". Therefore, many stimulants will enhance some areas of your brain, but decrease activity in another area. It happens to be that Modafinil is pretty good at stimulating areas that are great for concentration and attention, and not the areas responsible for over-exciting the CNS.

The other factor I'll briefly touch on: Diet. Is is also a fact that if I eat an entire bag of cookies at this moment, a chemical process will occur in my body within the next hour, and it WILL effect the way I feel - 100% fact. The spike of simple sugar in my blood will cause my pancreas to over-compensate with the production of insulin. The insulin will then lower my blood sugar level fast and efficiently. I will then have a lower blood sugar level than before I ate the cookies. Why is this important? Because the brain lives off of glucose (which isn't in cookies by the way). Unlike other areas in your body, your brain cannot "store" glucose, so it relies on a consistent level of glucose in your blood. Your brain needs glucose so much that each brain cell uses twice as much glucose as any other cell in your body! Therefore, after experiencing a significant drop in glucose, your brain begins to starve and malfunction because it's primary and only source of energy is glucose. By the way, intense mential activity will cause your brain to rapidly burn glucose. So, I'm not giving a lecture on diet, but I'm trying to plant that seed to some people that there IS a balance involved in the human body. And because we don't get modafinil for free, if you want to get the most out of the product, try your best to keep your body in a healthy state that will create a better probability for positive results.

And finally, caffeine. Caffeine is truly a unique substance. And, I'm not referring to your morning cup of coffee. By the way, a coffee with sugar is a recipe for a mental and physical crash due to the combination. Anyway, what I'm referring to is "caffeine" - the unadulterated chemical. Brain scans have revealed that caffeine, unlike expensive and popular drugs like ritalin and modafinil, act as a true "global" brain stimulant. Imagine that huh? Caffeine actually stimulates your brain in more areas than those expensive drugs. That's precisely why it provides a global response in varying effects - some people feel great, some can concentrate, some get jittery (CNS), etc. The truth is, if used properly, caffeine can be your best friend. Some will find this hard to believe, but the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research conducted a study and found caffeine to be equally as effective as modafinil. Don't believe me? Most of us are tolerant to the effects of caffeine because we consume so much coffee each day, but take this challenge! Stop all caffeine products for two weeks. Wake up one morning, swallow a 200mg pill of caffeine, and let me know how you feel. I tried it - and the result was amazing! Modafinil could not come close in the comparison to caffeine in that instance. If you exhaust your supply of modafinil but need a lift for a big day at work - Try this... caffeine is used best if taken in small doses throughout the day. Purchase some 200mg caffeine pills and a "pill-spliter". Take 1-2 pills, divide each pill up into 4 separate pieces (should contain approximately 50mgs of caffeine each). Then, take each piece every 40 mins. Within approximately 1.5 hours, you will notice a sustaned and very defined mental high and clarity. You'll be on fire. You won't crash. You'll be able to think clearly and be heavily involved in your work. In fact, I would argue it's better than modafinil (definitely more stimulating and noticeable), but the only problem is that humans build up a tolerance to caffeine very fast.

Anyway... that's my 2 cents on my year of experiementation with researching and using modafinil.


If one is not actually sleep deprived, but still feels tired often and only obtains optimal alertness when on caffeine, will Provigil help? From most of the reviews that I have read, it does not do anything for healthy, non-narcoleptics with adequate sleep. However, caffeine will benefit me even if I get 8 hours...but I build up tolerance fast.
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#58 leaving_florida

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 04:11 PM

If one is not actually sleep deprived, but still feels tired often and only obtains optimal alertness when on caffeine, will Provigil help? From most of the reviews that I have read, it does not do anything for healthy, non-narcoleptics with adequate sleep. However, caffeine will benefit me even if I get 8 hours...but I build up tolerance fast.


Well, again this is only my opinion from my experience, but in that case (which is my case also) I think modafinil WILL help. However, the problem comes when you swallow a pill and "expect" to suddenly be alert with energy. After a year, I have never felt a rush, or surge, or anything with modafinil like you do with caffeine. Something has to "drive" me to do something. I can't rely on modafinil to get me up and moving or make me study. I've had times when I took modafinil and was sound asleep two hours later, but I've also taken modafinil and literally studied for 21 hours straight... only stopping for a few minutes here and there because I kept forgetting to drink water and stay hydrated. From what I've experienced, the key with modafinil is in your approach to using it. Maybe for those with serious medical conditions, it works differently. I have never been diagnosed, nor I have elected to see a doctor, about my suffocating fatigue.

One can only speculate how it will, or will not, work for someone else. But I think in most cases like yours and mine, it WILL make a difference as long as you understand it's not an "energy" pill... it's a "focusing" pill. If you put forth the effort to get mentally involved in something, it will harness your ability to focus. If you don't... you'll waste a pill and do nothing... maybe even take a nap.

Caffeine is simply amazing when you stop using it for at least two weeks, but as you noted, tolerance is built up very quickly.

By the way, I've also tried the caffeine + ephedrine combo... had one great experience, but tolerance built up way too fast. My conclusion with ephedrine - wasn't much of an overall benefit when combined with caffeine.

I've also tried the following combinations in varying dosages:
Modafinil + Ritalin
Modafinil + Caffeine
Modafinil + Ritalin + Caffeine
Modafinil + Caffeine + Ephedrine
Modafinil + Ritalin + Caffeine + Ephedrine
Ritalin + Caffeine

I'd say modafinil + caffeine is my most common mixture. As I've wrote, modafinil doesn't give me "energy", it only helps me focus once I start mentally applying myself. Therefore, I think the caffeine provides a little kick to get things started.
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#59 Ghostrider

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:33 PM

If one is not actually sleep deprived, but still feels tired often and only obtains optimal alertness when on caffeine, will Provigil help? From most of the reviews that I have read, it does not do anything for healthy, non-narcoleptics with adequate sleep. However, caffeine will benefit me even if I get 8 hours...but I build up tolerance fast.


Well, again this is only my opinion from my experience, but in that case (which is my case also) I think modafinil WILL help. However, the problem comes when you swallow a pill and "expect" to suddenly be alert with energy. After a year, I have never felt a rush, or surge, or anything with modafinil like you do with caffeine. Something has to "drive" me to do something. I can't rely on modafinil to get me up and moving or make me study. I've had times when I took modafinil and was sound asleep two hours later, but I've also taken modafinil and literally studied for 21 hours straight... only stopping for a few minutes here and there because I kept forgetting to drink water and stay hydrated. From what I've experienced, the key with modafinil is in your approach to using it. Maybe for those with serious medical conditions, it works differently. I have never been diagnosed, nor I have elected to see a doctor, about my suffocating fatigue.

One can only speculate how it will, or will not, work for someone else. But I think in most cases like yours and mine, it WILL make a difference as long as you understand it's not an "energy" pill... it's a "focusing" pill. If you put forth the effort to get mentally involved in something, it will harness your ability to focus. If you don't... you'll waste a pill and do nothing... maybe even take a nap.

Caffeine is simply amazing when you stop using it for at least two weeks, but as you noted, tolerance is built up very quickly.

By the way, I've also tried the caffeine + ephedrine combo... had one great experience, but tolerance built up way too fast. My conclusion with ephedrine - wasn't much of an overall benefit when combined with caffeine.

I've also tried the following combinations in varying dosages:
Modafinil + Ritalin
Modafinil + Caffeine
Modafinil + Ritalin + Caffeine
Modafinil + Caffeine + Ephedrine
Modafinil + Ritalin + Caffeine + Ephedrine
Ritalin + Caffeine

I'd say modafinil + caffeine is my most common mixture. As I've wrote, modafinil doesn't give me "energy", it only helps me focus once I start mentally applying myself. Therefore, I think the caffeine provides a little kick to get things started.


Is your fatigue mental and physical or just physical? I often feel tired during the day, but only mentally, not physically. Maybe it is all in my head...

One can only speculate how it will, or will not, work for someone else. But I think in most cases like yours and mine, it WILL make a difference as long as you understand it's not an "energy" pill... it's a "focusing" pill. If you put forth the effort to get mentally involved in something, it will harness your ability to focus. If you don't... you'll waste a pill and do nothing... maybe even take a nap.


How do you know it's not just placebo effect in your case? Some people above describe modafinil as being worthless. How do you know it's actually not doing anything for you and it's just placebo? Also, why not see a doctor about the fatigue?
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#60 leaving_florida

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 06:45 PM

How do you know it's not just placebo effect in your case? Some people above describe modafinil as being worthless. How do you know it's actually not doing anything for you and it's just placebo? Also, why not see a doctor about the fatigue?


Well, that's a very fair question, and I'm not sure how I would convince you it is real and not a placebo. I guess the only way is to do a compare/contrast, but even that would only scratch the surface because we're talking about interpretation. In summary, I have a major problem with fatigue and concentration. When I try to study, I usually read for about 2 mins, and then get distracted for 20 mins. My reading is instantly attacked by outside thoughts and I battle with re-reading sentences over and over and over. I then have this crippling struggle back and forth, and after a few hours, I feel very depressed because I wasted most of the day and accomplished nothing. Mostly, studying for more than 10 solid minutes is a rare accomplishment.

With modafinil... I have ups and downs depending on my motivation, but I can usually put in a good hour or two until I lose concentration. On a few occassions, I've fell into this undescribable "concentration zone". At one point, I studied for 4 straight days while averaging about 15 solid hours per day (one day was 21 hours). I literally would forget to eat or drink. I was really, really, "IN" to what I was doing and accomplished many things. In those moments, you just "know" it's working. You know "something" is seriously different. It would be very hard to convince me it was a placebo effect, but I'm an open-minded person, so who knows? However, the one thing that is present in my case is "effort". I can take all the modafinil I want, but if I don't put forth the effort to apply myself, I will accomplish nothing. It does not give me "energy", it only works when I "want" to do something. It takes the same initial effort to begin studying whether I am taking modafinil or whether I am not. The only difference is in the quality of my focus and attention span, which is reflected in how much work I completed, or didn't complete.

Why don't I see a doctor? Well, I don't have insurance and I don't have the money. If I had the money, not sure I would have the time to go to a general doctor first, just to pay him to get a referral to a specialist... then make an appointment and wait for weeks just so they can tell me they want to "take tests"... in which I'd have to make another appointment a few weeks later to do that. Then... I'd have to come back in and the specialist would review my tests... then... who knows? Maybe get sent somewhere else? Maybe make another appointment and wait longer? I'm just pretty disgusted with the healthcare industry in the US. I had a bad experience and terminated my insurance last year because it turned out to be worthless anyway. It's a long story... and not in the scope of this topic... but I'm sure you get the picture.
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