410 replies to this topic

[vato]

and for the eggs, i noticed that they can spike the isoleucine and valine, both of which are ketone production suppressors.

Your protein powder plus the eggs would surely provide a huge amount of these amino acids?

my protein powder has not yet arrived, so yeah i'm currently at a little lower protein intake...
but you have to make sure that you eat very clean, make sure there is nowhere citric acid to be found, because it is often added to foods or drinks!
anyway, sometimes i experience that keto-high feeling yeah, but it sometimes fades a bit when i eat food... i think it has something to do with that..
however i enter ketosis very quick when i don't eat or when i start running in the morning!
that cream butter is just cow's milk butter, i can buy it here easily i live in The Netherlands it's grass fed butter.
but i think i will be experiencing more ketosis when i get my coconut oil!

it is just that slow released proteins do in fact have valine and isoleucine and glutamic acid but, it is the dose that matters... so when it is slow release protein and you're not taking in more than 20 grams at a meal you will stay in heavy ketosis and experience the high :D
but the high gets ALWAYS more intense when your digestive tract is relaxed and all blood flows through brain!

Yeah that makes sense. I went into ketosis last night actually for the second time ever. The fact I had not eaten for hours probably had something to do with this. Now this morning I am out of it again and I feel very hungry.
I have however decided to give this up. The practicality of trying to stay in this state all the time is just too painful. I am also becoming even more miserable by the lack of choice in my everyday food. Eating becomes a real chore. Before this diet I was probably eating in the region of 50/60g of carbs per day. My brain and body was doing just fine on that and I didn't forsee any future health complications based on that alone. It has however taught me not to go crazy on the fruits and to keep an eye on my carb intake. As long as it's around this area then there is no reason why I shouldn't live a long happy life this way. The ketogenic diet is just too hardcore and I admire those who can stick to it because it takes real discipline. I suppose I have now become another littered corpse in this thread. Another who dared to try but ultimately failed. As I said though I have leaned a great deal. I certainly appreciate how important it is to limit carbs and keep your insulin receptors sensitive. Good luck anyway *tucks into oatmeal with beaming smile*

true that it is a very hard diet to stay on considering social life.
acutally it is impossible to join a social thing and keep on the diet, because it is no fun to ALWAYS have tell you're on a special kind of diet and tell them the whole fucking story and still get answers like
'but thats totally unhealthy' 'you need whole grains' etc... i get so much energy from this diet to again and again tell everyone out there how great it is, but it is ALWAYS the same conversation
with the same responses everywhere.
anyway, today i got my coconut oil! :D:D:D i'm so happy because this stuff i can feel it already generates ketones bigtime!
it is like ketone-fuel, regardless of what else you take in, it just gets converted!
i'm definitely staying on this diet, the way it makes me feel is just awesome!
and the more i look at all the crap they sell in supermarkets the more i realise i am not going back that way. i don't want to fear cancer in my life or cardiovascular dis-ease like atherosclerosis, i want to stay vital until i'm at least 80 years!
whatever it may take! think about this, we are fighting a 'WAR' here. and we're the front soldiers, we take all the heat, but we will get victory first before the masses get freedom and peace (health)!
i am really sure today we don't have to fear bombs for our lifes, but we have to fear todays crap lifestyles and food intake!

Edited by vato, 24 December 2010 - 11:43 AM.

[Thorsten3]

[/quote]

true that it is a very hard diet to stay on considering social life.
acutally it is impossible to join a social thing and keep on the diet, because it is no fun to ALWAYS have tell you're on a special kind of diet and tell them the whole fucking story and still get answers like
'but thats totally unhealthy' 'you need whole grains' etc... i get so much energy from this diet to again and again tell everyone out there how great it is, but it is ALWAYS the same conversation
with the same responses everywhere.
anyway, today i got my coconut oil! :D:D:D i'm so happy because this stuff i can feel it already generates ketones bigtime!
it is like ketone-fuel, regardless of what else you take in, it just gets converted!
i'm definitely staying on this diet, the way it makes me feel is just awesome!
and the more i look at all the crap they sell in supermarkets the more i realise i am not going back that way. i don't want to fear cancer in my life or cardiovascular dis-ease like atherosclerosis, i want to stay vital until i'm at least 80 years!
whatever it may take! think about this, we are fighting a 'WAR' here. and we're the front soldiers, we take all the heat, but we will get victory first before the masses get freedom and peace (health)!
i am really sure today we don't have to fear bombs for our lifes, but we have to fear todays crap lifestyles and food intake!
[/quote]

Coconut oil is enhancing the effect significantly? Cool.. I am still waiting for mine to arrive. Perhaps this has to be a matter of comprimise for me then. I was never a 'crap carb eater' anyway I would just always eat 5 pieces of fruit per day plus my oats in the morning. If I could get my carb intake down to 40g per day without feeling awful I may experience added benefits with coconut oil with is like rocket fuel from how you describe it. With my new diet I am going to try and strive for this level of 40g (the oasts alone are probably about 30g). If I add bee pollen, hemp seed, cacao then this takes the level potentially even higher. I need to find a balance, one that keeps my mind happy but also keeps me within range of the health benefits. The euphoric feeling I am now less bothered with as keeping my brain happy, fed and stable has to be my new aim. Olive oil and coconut oil will hopefully become staples as well. Oh and fresh raw egg yolk, been on that one for years anyhow.

Couldn't agree more what you say about the shite they sell in the supermarkets. It is an absolute farce. Pretty much everything is made from wheat, coated in sugars or processed more than plastic itself. They add shit like trans fats which is causing an epidemic in health problems. The thing is 99% of people just don't care. They are totally oblivious to the damage they are doing to themselves. But the majority of them aren't terribly unhappy. They're happy sat there with their faimily tucking into a big mac... 'why should I give a toss? nothing bad will happen to me... I'll still be here tomorrow'....They are just content with what comes their way. There are others though, like ourselves, who take the time to educate ourselves and to learn about how things really are. We want to be happier, sharper, and the other things that come from having a more enriched appreciation of life.
It is indeed a constant battle.
I stopped eating crap years ago and it has beaten any nootropic hands down for every condition you'd care to mention. My focus especially is razor sharp. Nutrition really is where it all begins.

Edited by Thorsten, 24 December 2010 - 12:18 PM.

[vato]

BHB beta - hydroxybutyrate! great stuff tho! i'm experiencing the 'high' quite well right now!
i have not eaten so much protein since yesterday, and this morning i took coconut-oil spinach-creambutter and another shot of coconut oil and i experience that
feeling in the front lobe!!!!! i love this :D

[Thorsten3]

BHB beta - hydroxybutyrate! great stuff tho! i'm experiencing the 'high' quite well right now!
i have not eaten so much protein since yesterday, and this morning i took coconut-oil spinach-creambutter and another shot of coconut oil and i experience that
feeling in the front lobe!!!!! i love this :D

Are you losing much weight? Hunger pangs? Has the coconut oil enhanced the effect?

How much fat would you say you are eating per day? Still 6 eggs per day?

I'd love to give it another go, just got to fight through the irritable/moody/miserable stage. I think the best way to do this would be to fast for 24hrs. I plan to do this soon, fuck I'm off work tommorow - doing it then! Probably a good idea after all this crap I've gorged on over the xmas break lol

[Lucas]

What I just questioned you about becoming malnurished due to vitamin C deficiency - don't worry about it!! I just bought some spinach at the supermarket and just remembered how high it is in this vitiman. As are brocoli and sprouts, both of which I eat a few times per week.

Scurvy during a ketogenic diet is rare, considering you are eating a proper ketogenic diet. Glucose competes with ascorbate intestinal transport, so the more carbohydrate you eat, the more vitamin C you will need daily.

rasberries are only 4g per 100g of carbs.. a bit less than blueberries and alot sweeter in my opinion. At the moment I eat 100g of each every day.

Goji berries have a crazy amount of carbs in them (25g per 100g).. I have had to drop these which is a shame as they are practically an edible multivitamin if you are to believe the hype. Something that would potentially be very useful for a diet such as this.

Bannans, citrus fruits have gone. I have kept apples but these are eaten dependant on how much carbs I have had already or plan to have. I aim to stay under 30g per day ideally.

No fruits during a ketogenic diet, for obvious reasons (direct glucose source) and for other not so obvious (sweet-dependance, hunger, palatability/satiety)

Yeah that makes sense. I went into ketosis last night actually for the second time ever. The fact I had not eaten for hours probably had something to do with this. Now this morning I am out of it again and I feel very hungry.
I have however decided to give this up. The practicality of trying to stay in this state all the time is just too painful. I am also becoming even more miserable by the lack of choice in my everyday food. Eating becomes a real chore. Before this diet I was probably eating in the region of 50/60g of carbs per day. My brain and body was doing just fine on that and I didn't forsee any future health complications based on that alone. It has however taught me not to go crazy on the fruits and to keep an eye on my carb intake. As long as it's around this area then there is no reason why I shouldn't live a long happy life this way. The ketogenic diet is just too hardcore and I admire those who can stick to it because it takes real discipline. I suppose I have now become another littered corpse in this thread. Another who dared to try but ultimately failed. As I said though I have leaned a great deal. I certainly appreciate how important it is to limit carbs and keep your insulin receptors sensitive. Good luck anyway *tucks into oatmeal with beaming smile*

That is because your KD wasnt proper, so you couldnt adapt and thus, dieting was very hard.

[vato]

i'm almost a month on the ketogenic diet and feel awesome

lately my meals are like:

spinach + cow's cream butter + sardines!!!!!!!!!!!! very tasty and healthy!
omega3 scrambled eggs + beef liver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
spinach + cow's cream butter + smoked salmon!!! veryyy tasty!!!
coconut oil!!!!!!!!
micellar-casein protein for the muscle building!

i cut out olive oil, because it has about 0,8% FFA, which is a lot considering that i really need the enzyme '5 alpha reductase' because,
my beard has not been growning really for a week and my libido is shot.. not even sensitivity there.
but i did the research and it is due to the fatty acids found in nuts and olive oil mostly when the are in 'unbound' state. the one found in nuts responsible is 'linoleic acid'
i've also cut out the ground-flaxseed. because it is high in alpha-linolenic-acid, and that inhibits 5-alpha-reductase bigtime!
so basically i'm not stressing too much about minerals right now, i'm getting plenty from the spinach, the eggs and the liver! and yeah, i'm really feeeling awesome still!

i note that my 'explosive' strength-endurance in the gym has been not so perfect and my muscles are a bit flat, but that's just from the glycogen depletion!
anyway, i train a different way which also BOOSTS muscle growth this is:
just do some warming up sets, slow movements, then pick the most heavy weight, and make 1 or 2 reps and focus on the eccentric! (you will be able to blast a insane weight for 2 reps at least so the 'power lift' is definitely not gone on the keto-diet the endurance of that power boost is just lower)
so just lower the weight with all force you got, when you cant keep it, just hold it there for another 10 seconds and get your buddy to help you lift the weight again.
this stresses the muscle to max to increase the fiber density!
so well, yeah i'm here with some sweet muscle soreness (not the painful soreness but the nice one!) and i feel like i'm growing like weed, i just feel like it, will see in a few weeks!
i'm just stuffing myself with butter and fish and my protein shakes so..

keep ya'll updated!
peace

Edited by vato, 30 December 2010 - 02:56 PM.

[Thorsten3]

i'm almost a month on the ketogenic diet and feel awesome

lately my meals are like:

spinach + cow's cream butter + sardines!!!!!!!!!!!! very tasty and healthy!
omega3 scrambled eggs + beef liver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
spinach + cow's cream butter + smoked salmon!!! veryyy tasty!!!
coconut oil!!!!!!!!
micellar-casein protein for the muscle building!

i cut out olive oil, because it has about 0,8% FFA, which is a lot considering that i really need the enzyme '5 alpha reductase' because,
my beard has not been growning really for a week and my libido is shot.. not even sensitivity there.
but i did the research and it is due to the fatty acids found in nuts and olive oil mostly when the are in 'unbound' state. the one found in nuts responsible is 'linoleic acid'
i've also cut out the ground-flaxseed. because it is high in alpha-linolenic-acid, and that inhibits 5-alpha-reductase bigtime!
so basically i'm not stressing too much about minerals right now, i'm getting plenty from the spinach, the eggs and the liver! and yeah, i'm really feeeling awesome still!

i note that my 'explosive' strength-endurance in the gym has been not so perfect and my muscles are a bit flat, but that's just from the glycogen depletion!
anyway, i train a different way which also BOOSTS muscle growth this is:
just do some warming up sets, slow movements, then pick the most heavy weight, and make 1 or 2 reps and focus on the eccentric! (you will be able to blast a insane weight for 2 reps at least so the 'power lift' is definitely not gone on the keto-diet the endurance of that power boost is just lower)
so just lower the weight with all force you got, when you cant keep it, just hold it there for another 10 seconds and get your buddy to help you lift the weight again.
this stresses the muscle to max to increase the fiber density!
so well, yeah i'm here with some sweet muscle soreness (not the painful soreness but the nice one!) and i feel like i'm growing like weed, i just feel like it, will see in a few weeks!
i'm just stuffing myself with butter and fish and my protein shakes so..

keep ya'll updated!
peace

Gonna give this another try! I cannot eat sardines though! They are disgusting! lol

[Thorsten3]

What I just questioned you about becoming malnurished due to vitamin C deficiency - don't worry about it!! I just bought some spinach at the supermarket and just remembered how high it is in this vitiman. As are brocoli and sprouts, both of which I eat a few times per week.

Scurvy during a ketogenic diet is rare, considering you are eating a proper ketogenic diet. Glucose competes with ascorbate intestinal transport, so the more carbohydrate you eat, the more vitamin C you will need daily.

rasberries are only 4g per 100g of carbs.. a bit less than blueberries and alot sweeter in my opinion. At the moment I eat 100g of each every day.

Goji berries have a crazy amount of carbs in them (25g per 100g).. I have had to drop these which is a shame as they are practically an edible multivitamin if you are to believe the hype. Something that would potentially be very useful for a diet such as this.

Bannans, citrus fruits have gone. I have kept apples but these are eaten dependant on how much carbs I have had already or plan to have. I aim to stay under 30g per day ideally.

No fruits during a ketogenic diet, for obvious reasons (direct glucose source) and for other not so obvious (sweet-dependance, hunger, palatability/satiety)

Yeah that makes sense. I went into ketosis last night actually for the second time ever. The fact I had not eaten for hours probably had something to do with this. Now this morning I am out of it again and I feel very hungry.
I have however decided to give this up. The practicality of trying to stay in this state all the time is just too painful. I am also becoming even more miserable by the lack of choice in my everyday food. Eating becomes a real chore. Before this diet I was probably eating in the region of 50/60g of carbs per day. My brain and body was doing just fine on that and I didn't forsee any future health complications based on that alone. It has however taught me not to go crazy on the fruits and to keep an eye on my carb intake. As long as it's around this area then there is no reason why I shouldn't live a long happy life this way. The ketogenic diet is just too hardcore and I admire those who can stick to it because it takes real discipline. I suppose I have now become another littered corpse in this thread. Another who dared to try but ultimately failed. As I said though I have leaned a great deal. I certainly appreciate how important it is to limit carbs and keep your insulin receptors sensitive. Good luck anyway *tucks into oatmeal with beaming smile*

That is because your KD wasnt proper, so you couldnt adapt and thus, dieting was very hard.

Are you on the keto diet? what's your current regimen if you don't mind me asking?

[vato]

guys,

i wanna give an update on something that just hit me!
i can't believe it's actually happening...
happy new year by the way!!
this morning, i'm now a full month without carbs and...
this morning i had such a desire to eat a banana... and then, i saw this cup of 'apple/pear sirup' which looked delicious to me.. so i had like 3 spoons...

now it is about 2 hours since, and i noticed BIG EUPHORIC feeling after 15 minutes of consuming the banana and the spoons.. and i saw some raisins which i couldnt resist while in this euphoria!
so!!!! IT IS STILL THERE AND DAMN STRONG!!!!!!!!
so i went to look a bit deeper into what do these fruits have in common, well...
they are all about 90% fructose.
and fructose is a KETONE sugar!
so!!!!!!
my brain and body actually seem to like ketone sugars!!!!!! i never experienced this before it's DAMN AWESOME AND SO STRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by vato, 01 January 2011 - 01:35 PM.

[JLL]

guys,

i wanna give an update on something that just hit me!
i can't believe it's actually happening...
happy new year by the way!!
this morning, i'm now a full month without carbs and...
this morning i had such a desire to eat a banana... and then, i saw this cup of 'apple/pear sirup' which looked delicious to me.. so i had like 3 spoons...

now it is about 2 hours since, and i noticed BIG EUPHORIC feeling after 15 minutes of consuming the banana and the spoons.. and i saw some raisins which i couldnt resist while in this euphoria!
so!!!! IT IS STILL THERE AND DAMN STRONG!!!!!!!!
so i went to look a bit deeper into what do these fruits have in common, well...
they are all about 90% fructose.
and fructose is a KETONE sugar!
so!!!!!!
my brain and body actually seem to like ketone sugars!!!!!! i never experienced this before it's DAMN AWESOME AND SO STRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, what? Bananas have a fructose/glucose ratio of 1:1. Besides, I think even pure fructose would take you out of ketosis.

I think the rush you experienced is from the carbs, not ketosis. Any sugar will do that when you're in ketosis.

[Thorsten3]

guys,

i wanna give an update on something that just hit me!
i can't believe it's actually happening...
happy new year by the way!!
this morning, i'm now a full month without carbs and...
this morning i had such a desire to eat a banana... and then, i saw this cup of 'apple/pear sirup' which looked delicious to me.. so i had like 3 spoons...

now it is about 2 hours since, and i noticed BIG EUPHORIC feeling after 15 minutes of consuming the banana and the spoons.. and i saw some raisins which i couldnt resist while in this euphoria!
so!!!! IT IS STILL THERE AND DAMN STRONG!!!!!!!!
so i went to look a bit deeper into what do these fruits have in common, well...
they are all about 90% fructose.
and fructose is a KETONE sugar!
so!!!!!!
my brain and body actually seem to like ketone sugars!!!!!! i never experienced this before it's DAMN AWESOME AND SO STRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, what? Bananas have a fructose/glucose ratio of 1:1. Besides, I think even pure fructose would take you out of ketosis.

I think the rush you experienced is from the carbs, not ketosis. Any sugar will do that when you're in ketosis.

Whatever it is I want a big spoonfull of what this guy is on

[Thorsten3]

guys,

i wanna give an update on something that just hit me!
i can't believe it's actually happening...
happy new year by the way!!
this morning, i'm now a full month without carbs and...
this morning i had such a desire to eat a banana... and then, i saw this cup of 'apple/pear sirup' which looked delicious to me.. so i had like 3 spoons...

now it is about 2 hours since, and i noticed BIG EUPHORIC feeling after 15 minutes of consuming the banana and the spoons.. and i saw some raisins which i couldnt resist while in this euphoria!
so!!!! IT IS STILL THERE AND DAMN STRONG!!!!!!!!
so i went to look a bit deeper into what do these fruits have in common, well...
they are all about 90% fructose.
and fructose is a KETONE sugar!
so!!!!!!
my brain and body actually seem to like ketone sugars!!!!!! i never experienced this before it's DAMN AWESOME AND SO STRONG!!!!!!!!!!

u r getting cravings for the carbs? ... stay stong brother! Next time that bannana is winking at you look away!!

the euphoria from the carbs must be a similar thing that paleo man must have experienced when stumbling across honey.

are you out of ketosis now then? that must have been a lot of fcructose you devoured?

Edited by Thorsten, 01 January 2011 - 06:16 PM.

[Lucas]

Are you on the keto diet? what's your current regimen if you don't mind me asking?

I fast + keto. A typical training day for me looks like:

7:00 am wake up.
During the morning: Strong black coffee.
12:00am: Train
Immediatly PWO: Beef liver tabs + 35g glutamine

First meal (1-2pm): 300-500g of beef fried in coconut oil, some almonds, 1 avocado, eggs.
During the afternoon: Water
Dinner (Around 9-10pm): 300-500g of beef heart fried in coconut oil, some cheese and small tomato for flavor (not always). Some eggs for dessert.

Edited by βOHB, 03 January 2011 - 04:57 AM.

[Thorsten3]

Are you on the keto diet? what's your current regimen if you don't mind me asking?

I fast + keto. A typical training day for me looks like:

7:00 am wake up.
During the morning: Strong black coffee.
12:00am: Train
Immediatly PWO: Beef liver tabs + 35g glutamine

First meal (1-2pm): 300-500g of beef fried in coconut oil, some almonds, 1 avocado, eggs.
During the afternoon: Water
Dinner (Around 9-10pm): 300-500g of beef heart fried in coconut oil, some cheese and small tomato for flavor (not always). Some eggs for dessert.

Cool thanks for sharing..

What does the glutamine do is that to reduce appetite?

Do you get bored by the lack of variety? I supoose the feeling of ketosis reduces appetite and also increases wellbeing so you don't feel the need to crave foods that your body doesn't need.

Why no fish? Salads? The amount of red meat should pack in lots of calories I assume? I am going to give this another go soon. Looking at that diet it is so low in carbs - You must be reaping the benefits health wise.

Edited by Thorsten, 03 January 2011 - 09:25 PM.

[vato]

oh well :D
i was in a extreme good mood since that!!, i went to party with some friends and smoked some..
i've also stuffed myself with junkfood tho..
this morning when i woke up, i felt a bit tired but that's all!
and i decide to eat not much today only some sardines and some small spoons coconut oil
however my energy level is coming back online and i can feel my mind is very satisfied! i don't know what causes this feeling lately.
it seems to be there more, even while i'm not into hardcore ketosis.

so i'm guessing my brain is just managing it's energy levels in a better way. this feeling is so unreal.
i've come across some studies while i researched into the ketogenic diet and this was something i wanted to share which i think is happening to me now..

"A Ketogenic Diet Increases Brain Insulin-Like Growth Factor Receptor and Glucose Transporter Gene Expression"
http://endo.endojour...endo;144/6/2676

[katzenjammer]

Anyone on the KD who is also a sprinter? If so, anyone note any effect on their explosiveness, etc?

[Lucas]

Cool thanks for sharing..

What does the glutamine do is that to reduce appetite?

Do you get bored by the lack of variety? I supoose the feeling of ketosis reduces appetite and also increases wellbeing so you don't feel the need to crave foods that your body doesn't need.

Why no fish? Salads? The amount of red meat should pack in lots of calories I assume? I am going to give this another go soon. Looking at that diet it is so low in carbs - You must be reaping the benefits health wise.

Glutamine for replenishing muscle glycogen stores, aesthetic-wise. Because I am re-educating my taste, I dont crave much sweets. I eat some fruit sometimes, or maybe some starch, but it is not common. If I want to "cheat", I do it with strawberries + whole cream. I dont need salads nor think vegetables are essential, so the vegetables I use are for flavor only. Avocado and tomato usually. If I crave a salad, Ill eat it, but only for taste. I eat fish once-twice a week, 500g per meal, usually with seafood and butter.

[vato]

Cool thanks for sharing..

What does the glutamine do is that to reduce appetite?

Do you get bored by the lack of variety? I supoose the feeling of ketosis reduces appetite and also increases wellbeing so you don't feel the need to crave foods that your body doesn't need.

Why no fish? Salads? The amount of red meat should pack in lots of calories I assume? I am going to give this another go soon. Looking at that diet it is so low in carbs - You must be reaping the benefits health wise.

Glutamine for replenishing muscle glycogen stores, aesthetic-wise. Because I am re-educating my taste, I dont crave much sweets. I eat some fruit sometimes, or maybe some starch, but it is not common. If I want to "cheat", I do it with strawberries + whole cream. I dont need salads nor think vegetables are essential, so the vegetables I use are for flavor only. Avocado and tomato usually. If I crave a salad, Ill eat it, but only for taste. I eat fish once-twice a week, 500g per meal, usually with seafood and butter.

you're focusing a lot on the no-carb.. i think vegetables are great for the mineral content, especially spinach... but if you feel ok with your diet, then keep it..
but potassium is a very important mineral.. i once worked my way towards a deficiency because i was not eating fruits/vegetables.
if you're eating liver, you'll get potassium, well, it's just nice to have some potassium supply here and there, especially on keto diets

Edited by vato, 05 January 2011 - 10:08 AM.

[Thorsten3]

Coconut oil tastes amazing.. This one is a keeper for life I think..

How much are you guys eating per day? So going by how it works it should be putting more ketones into the bloodstream.. But whether they are used as a source of fuel at all (maybe in times of crisis for the neuron?) I wouldn't know for sure, especially if your body is running on glucose as its primary fuel source.

[Donnie]

Coconut oil tastes amazing.. This one is a keeper for life I think..

How much are you guys eating per day? So going by how it works it should be putting more ketones into the bloodstream.. But whether they are used as a source of fuel at all (maybe in times of crisis for the neuron?) I wouldn't know for sure, especially if your body is running on glucose as its primary fuel source.

It does. I read about a doctor who were feeding her alzheimer husband two spoonfuls of coconut oil. He improved about 4.5 hours later. He wasn't on a ketogenic diet.

[vato]

at the moment i'm not into ketosis i don't like it..

last weekend and monday i was eating junk cookies and so on because i was just relaxing with some mates and smoking...
i think i'll get back into it tomorrow, i've not eating a single carb today

[limonene]

I've been eating relatively low carb since New Years and in the past 5 or so days have made sure my carbs are around or under 50g/day. I keep hearing you need to be under 20g/day to go into ketosis but that doesn't seem to be the case for me, as I have been experiencing obvious ketosis symptoms the past three days. I'm not going to bother peeing on those sticks to confirm, though, because they sound like a waste of money.

I feel absolutely AWFUL right now. I actually called in sick to work today, and I very very rarely ever do that...

-Ever-present SEVERE fatigue. I'm literally bed-ridden often. Like having a really bad flu without the fever, cough, etc.
-Bad headaches and lower back pain. OTC pain meds don't affect it in the slightest.
-Dizziness, orthostatic hypotension. I nearly passed out just from standing in the shower for 10 minutes this morning...
-Very thirsty all the time.
-Suppressed appetite.
-Normally I am very intolerant of cold temperatures, but lately I have been swinging between bouts of cold intolerance and randomly feeling overheated, like hot flashes.
-Of course, the famous strange-smelling breath and body odor.

My mood is alright though, despite the horrible physical symptoms. If anything I'm less irritable than usual.


I hope all this suffering will be worth it, and doesn't last longer than a week or so. I was a vegetarian for almost 2 years until a few months ago and have always been a terrible carb addict. I wasn't counting, but I wouldn't be surprised if my macronutrient breakdown was 70-80% carbs. My staple foods were LOTS of beans and LOTS of bread. I guess this is why my symptoms are so horrible, my body is so used to mass amounts of carbs and is now very angry it's being deprived of them!


I'm looking forward to that "lifting of the brain fog" many of you have experienced. I hope it comes soon. I feel like my brain has been foggy for the past several years, which is what originally led me to this site (info on nootropics). But I do believe diet is what's most important, and I'm finally motivated again to keep my diet really clean.


My diet the past week or so has consisted of bacon, eggs, beef, chicken, tuna, salmon, broccoli, lettuce, heavy cream, small amounts of nuts and peanut butter, dark chocolate, some cheese, and coconut oil. I drink only water, or tea/coffee sweetened with Splenda.

I do take supplements, if that's relevant --
Day:
-2 NOW omega-3 softgels (360/240mg EPA/DHA)
-1 NOW Gr8-Dophilus (bacteria for digestion)
-3,000 IU Vitamin D (cheap-o tablets, not softgels, but I take with coconut oil)
-0.5 teaspoon turmeric powder

Think I'll add a good B-vitamin complex, as B-vitamins are one of the very few supplements/vitamins I've noticed a definite energy boost from in the past.

Night:
-250mg magnesium chelates (includes 100mg potassium chelates)
-3mg melatonin

Female, 5'6", 145 lbs.

I can already notice some benefits to this diet. Back on my old diet I experienced lots of cramping, gas, bloating, and sometimes diarrhea. All of that has completely vanished. Also, even though the scale says I only lost 2 pounds, and I don't really look any different, I FEEL skinnier and stronger. My body feels less...doughy. Guess I'll keep toughin' it out.

Edited by limonene, 11 January 2011 - 10:21 PM.

[motif]

you got sick, nothing to do with ketosis.

[vato]

your body is adapting to a new style. it takes enzymes to be manufactured to make use of the new substances...
it's like the old car your have, trying to make it run on electricity...
so actually it takes some time, about 2-4 weeks to adapt, and at 6 weeks you should be fully adapted.

for me, i just entered ketosis again after 2 days no carbs...
i wasted it last weekend when i was smoking and having the munchies

[limonene]

you got sick, nothing to do with ketosis.

I think you may be right -- I hadn't noticed until today the sore throat and sinus symptoms. Sorry for being too quick to blame ketosis.

I'ma keep on truckin', y'all do the same...

[Thorsten3]

you got sick, nothing to do with ketosis.

I'ma keep on truckin', y'all do the same...

lol we need some flavour on these boards! update us with your progress!

[Thorsten3]

your body is adapting to a new style. it takes enzymes to be manufactured to make use of the new substances...
it's like the old car your have, trying to make it run on electricity...
so actually it takes some time, about 2-4 weeks to adapt, and at 6 weeks you should be fully adapted.

for me, i just entered ketosis again after 2 days no carbs...
i wasted it last weekend when i was smoking and having the munchies

haha it's a shame you don't crave a beef salad or a tuna steak when you have been smoking... those damm carbs lol

[Thorsten3]

need to get a new tub of coconut oil... i completely destroyed that last one - i find it very mourish... sticking to 3tbs per day was a problem

[Donnie]

The last few months I have wondered whether or not the protein sparing effect of the ketogenic diet could make maintaining muscle more feasible on a CR diet. There doesn't seem to be much information or discussion of the ketogenic and CR diet combined, but here's one study I could dig up:

A ketogenic diet increases brain insulin-like growth factor receptor and glucose transporter gene expression.
Cheng CM, Kelley B, Wang J, Strauss D, Eagles DA, Bondy CA.

Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA.
Abstract
A ketogenic diet suppresses seizure activity in children and in juvenile rats. To investigate whether alteration in brain IGF activity could be involved in the beneficial effects of the ketogenic diet, we examined the effects of this diet on IGF system gene expression in the rat brain. Juvenile rats were fed one of three different diets for 7 d: ad libitum standard rat chow (AL-Std), calorie-restricted standard chow (CR-Std), or a calorie-restricted ketogenic diet (CR-Ket). The calorie-restricted diets contained 90% of the rats' calculated energy requirements. The AL-Std diet group increased in weight, whereas the two CR groups merely maintained their weight during the 7-d diet. Glucose levels were significantly reduced in both CR groups compared with the AL-Std group, but only the CR-Ket group developed ketonemia. IGF1 mRNA levels were reduced by 30-50% in most brain regions in both CR groups. IGF1 receptor (IGF1R) mRNA levels were decreased in the CR-Std group but were increased in the CR-Ket diet group. Brain IGF binding protein (IGFBP)-2 and -5 mRNA levels were not altered by diet, but IGFBP-3 mRNA levels were markedly increased by the ketogenic diet while not altered by calorie restriction alone. Brain glucose transporter expression was also investigated in this study. Glucose transporter (GLUT) 4 mRNA levels were quite low and not appreciably altered by the different diets. Parenchymal GLUT1 mRNA levels were increased by the CR-Ket diet, but endothelial GLUT1 mRNA levels were not affected. Neuronal GLUT3 expression was decreased with the CR-Std diet and increased with the CR-Ket diet, in parallel with the IGF1R pattern. These observations reveal divergent effects of dietary caloric content and macronutrient composition on brain IGF system and GLUT expression. In addition, the data may be consistent with a role for enhanced IGF1R and GLUT expression in ketogenic diet-induced seizure suppression.

I'm not that educated on CR, but I'm guessing a 90% fulfilment of the rats energy requirement resulting in 'merely' maintaining their weight, isn't really CR.

Anyway, the increase in IGF1 receptor is major letdown, as I understand low IGF1 is a large component of the CR benefits. An increase in the IGF1R levels suggests that higher IGF1 levels are activating the receptor, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does anyone know why this happens? Perhaps because CR keto mice were fed more protein to replace carbohydrates?

Edited by Donnie, 22 January 2011 - 11:13 AM.

[vato]

The last few months I have wondered whether or not the protein sparing effect of the ketogenic diet could make maintaining muscle more feasible on a CR diet. There doesn't seem to be much information or discussion of the ketogenic and CR diet combined, but here's one study I could dig up:

A ketogenic diet increases brain insulin-like growth factor receptor and glucose transporter gene expression.
Cheng CM, Kelley B, Wang J, Strauss D, Eagles DA, Bondy CA.

Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA.
Abstract
A ketogenic diet suppresses seizure activity in children and in juvenile rats. To investigate whether alteration in brain IGF activity could be involved in the beneficial effects of the ketogenic diet, we examined the effects of this diet on IGF system gene expression in the rat brain. Juvenile rats were fed one of three different diets for 7 d: ad libitum standard rat chow (AL-Std), calorie-restricted standard chow (CR-Std), or a calorie-restricted ketogenic diet (CR-Ket). The calorie-restricted diets contained 90% of the rats' calculated energy requirements. The AL-Std diet group increased in weight, whereas the two CR groups merely maintained their weight during the 7-d diet. Glucose levels were significantly reduced in both CR groups compared with the AL-Std group, but only the CR-Ket group developed ketonemia. IGF1 mRNA levels were reduced by 30-50% in most brain regions in both CR groups. IGF1 receptor (IGF1R) mRNA levels were decreased in the CR-Std group but were increased in the CR-Ket diet group. Brain IGF binding protein (IGFBP)-2 and -5 mRNA levels were not altered by diet, but IGFBP-3 mRNA levels were markedly increased by the ketogenic diet while not altered by calorie restriction alone. Brain glucose transporter expression was also investigated in this study. Glucose transporter (GLUT) 4 mRNA levels were quite low and not appreciably altered by the different diets. Parenchymal GLUT1 mRNA levels were increased by the CR-Ket diet, but endothelial GLUT1 mRNA levels were not affected. Neuronal GLUT3 expression was decreased with the CR-Std diet and increased with the CR-Ket diet, in parallel with the IGF1R pattern. These observations reveal divergent effects of dietary caloric content and macronutrient composition on brain IGF system and GLUT expression. In addition, the data may be consistent with a role for enhanced IGF1R and GLUT expression in ketogenic diet-induced seizure suppression.

I'm not that educated on CR, but I'm guessing a 90% fulfilment of the rats energy requirement resulting in 'merely' maintaining their weight, isn't really CR.

Anyway, the increase in IGF1 receptor is major letdown, as I understand low IGF1 is a large component of the CR benefits. An increase in the IGF1R levels suggests that higher IGF1 levels are activating the receptor, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does anyone know why this happens? Perhaps because CR keto mice were fed more protein to replace carbohydrates?

i think you're wrong about the receptor.
see it like this, serum IGF goes down, and the cell membranes upregulate the receptor.
this means that, you have less IGF circulating in your blood. and when the IGF-receptor gets upregulated this means actually that your cells accept IGF easier.
the positive side of this is that, you have the receptors upregulated at the tissues you want. and those receptors are probably unaffected in other tissues.
as a result, you get the IGF working at the tissues that are beneficial, so it's actually a good thing