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Cannabis for longevity?


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#31 abolitionist

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

http://norml.org/lib...th-mythology#13

"Myth : Cannabis causes sterility and lowers Testosterone"

Edited by abolitionist, 08 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.


#32 lifebuddy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

I think the forced relaxation is good for the body, as long as it isn't used all day long. Used effectively, it can increase your positive outlook on things and allow time for self-reflection (and therefore self-improvement). It has to be used in a very specific way though.

Other than that, cannabis is a great drug with far fewer negative effects on health than alcohol. For the general (read: unhealthy) population, replacing excessive alcohol consumption with excessive cannabis consumption will probably extend your life by eliminating many of the negatives associated with alcohol. So yes, in many ways, cannabis can extend the life of the average person :)

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#33 abolitionist

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

I wouldn't want to make a bet at this point myself, but it's an interesting theory.

I would guess that eating cannabis raw including the buds, seeds, and leaves would be the best way to obtain solely the longevity benefits {thereby not creating THC and not getting high}

Heating up the cannabinoids to create THC might have a detrimental effect on the protective effects as a whole.

Raw Cannabis concentrates may become an equal supplement [in terms of sales] to Resveratrol in the now legalized states {USA}

Edited by abolitionist, 08 January 2013 - 12:53 AM.


#34 lifebuddy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:05 AM

I wouldn't want to make a bet at this point myself, but it's an interesting theory.

I would guess that eating cannabis raw including the buds and leaves would be the best way to obtain solely the longevity benefits {thereby not creating THC and not getting high}

Heating up the cannabinoids to create THC might have a detrimental effect of the protective effects as a whole.


THC is already present. Heating cannabis does not create THC. Cannabis is often heated in conjunction with a fat, thus allowing the cannabinoids to bind to fats and thus be significantly more absorbable in the gut.

#35 abolitionist

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:27 AM

that's true, THC is already present. heating it up turns THCA into THC creating more THC - according to some sources.

#36 kevinseven11

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

Thc doesnt effect hormone levels much but it does inhibit dht binding to the androgen receptor according to two vitro studies. The smoke from cannabis has a chemical that prevents testosterone from metabolizing into estrogen thus counteracting the whole effect.

#37 Adaptogen

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

When i smoke a decent amount of potent marijuana, particularly a strain with a high proportion of cannabinoids/thc ratio (indica), I notice strong, almost unpleasant bodily sensations. I think these are from the anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis.

I also notice similar, uncomfortable bodily sensations when supplementing with resveratrol.

My speculation is that these sensations are sometimes uncomfortable because I already have very low levels of inflammation as a result of lifestyle/ low bmi (19.4).



Does any of this sound plausible?

#38 PWAIN

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

Maybe Saffron would be a better way to go...

#39 anagram

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:55 AM

I have friends who smoke pot, and the damage is slowly becoming apparent. they sometimes have little moments while I am talking to them where they look like they are about to pass out, but they soon return to normality after milliseconds, it looks like some sort of sesiure, and they only smoke about an eighth to two eighths a week. I know that cannabis is not good for you, despite certain arguments for its use as a prophylactic.

Cannabis "slows metabolism.." well l-histidine does the same thing, by making hydrogen peroxide so damaging to DNA, that a shit load of Double strand breaks occur, which on its own, Hydrogen peroxide isn't even capable of doing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1588927
and we eat this all the time...


-moral of the story is don't use cannabis that often, or at all if you aren't old enough to.

and just so you don't go on an anti-Histidine rampage-

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19782114

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22011298

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530908

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12624476

l-Histidine acts as an antioxidant when bound to metals like zinc(the complex is called curazink(German name I think),
and apparently zinc also increases the antioxidant efficacy of Carnosine(from last page on lef webpage on Carnosine).

Edited by anagram, 10 January 2013 - 03:21 AM.

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#40 lifebuddy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

I have friends who smoke pot, and the damage is slowly becoming apparent. they sometimes have little moments while I am talking to them where they look like they are about to pass out, but they soon return to normality after milliseconds, it looks like some sort of sesiure, and they only smoke about an eighth to two eighths a week.


I know that cannabis is not good for you


It is much more complex than that. Cannabis is like a mother to millions upon millions around the world. It is their spirit guide. Their plant ally. It warms them at night and soothes their troubled souls in the day, without lying to them like alcohol, stimulants, and other people. It allows them to be at peace with themselves and the universe. For some people, marijuana allows them to live with themselves, and to deal with a troubled past. My wife is a prime example. Without marijuana (and she has gone many months without), she begins to think herself into a mental breakdown. She is consumed with thoughts of her past, confused about the present, and worried about the future. With marijuana, she lives like a 'normal' human being.

You say your friends are slowly being damaged. Have you ever met anyone who has become completely debilitated from their use of marijuana? People whose minds simply don't work? Who you can't talk to because their sort of seizures have gotten so bad that they are catatonic? Talking anecdotally... Living in the bay area, I have met dozens of well aged lifetime pot-heads (multiple daily smokers) who don't appear to be any worse off than the rest of joe public.

It is also easy to observe what seems to be negative impressions of the stoned youth. But don't forget that many many people are inherently lazy anyway. They play computer games with or without pot. They don't exercise with or without pot. Nor do they eat well or study well.

#41 anagram

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

sorry about your wife. I agree that marijuana supplementation is definitely good in certain circumstances, until you find the cause of the issue that the marijuana is covering up. But I also believe that the dent in your wallet and the huge change to your thoughts/mentality/feeling along with the antagonistic effect on NMDA receptor calcium influx is something that I do not remotely care for if i am trying to extend my life span.

If your wife is getting a positive effect from Marjiana, does she get a positive effect from any other supplements?

Edited by anagram, 10 January 2013 - 09:34 PM.


#42 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1253627/ ;

"Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects"


... but leads to diminished testosterone with time and thus more risk factors for depression in men. The mayoclinic IIRC also has info stating that contrary to popular belief, THC can be bad for the developing fetus, and breast feeding concentrations are many times higher (and still decarboxylated) than in the woman's blood. So any embryonic benefit is likely not worth the risk. As ingestion results in much longer and more dramatic effects, I'd say baby is pretty damn wasted! Excess, even in adults has shown very bad indirect side effects. I think it may only be acceptable for women to use it when they aren't pregnant or at risk of becoming so.
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#43 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:04 AM

http://norml.org/lib...th-mythology#13

"Myth : Cannabis causes sterility and lowers Testosterone"


If pot can suppress T temporarily, and is used long enough to cause weight gain, T get's diminished until the weight is lost. What are the damages of having diminished T for any period of time? I will agree that in the past bad science has been propagandized, but now we're seeing the same thing from the opposite end of the prohibition argument. Pot studies have to be taken with a grain of salt. There are also studies which show that it can cause metabolic syndrome.
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#44 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

I think the forced relaxation is good for the body, as long as it isn't used all day long. Used effectively, it can increase your positive outlook on things and allow time for self-reflection (and therefore self-improvement). It has to be used in a very specific way though.

Other than that, cannabis is a great drug with far fewer negative effects on health than alcohol. For the general (read: unhealthy) population, replacing excessive alcohol consumption with excessive cannabis consumption will probably extend your life by eliminating many of the negatives associated with alcohol. So yes, in many ways, cannabis can extend the life of the average person :)


Correction: ...cannabis can extend the life of the average "alcoholic" :)


While pot may have some benefits, I think I'll wait until after I'm immortal and medicine can reverse any negative effects of smoking it. Actually I think I'd prefer a safe future synthetic that raises T and gives me tons of stimulant energy to go with the good feelings.

I tried pot once overseas, but it causes an over production or more efficient recycling of a neuro hormone that makes you relaxed and gives you a feel good attitude. Tried the hormone too, it was more effective (greater sense of relaxation and emotional wellbeing), less (hardly)debilitating, and doesn't result in compromised thought processes. I will admit that it probably isn't as safe as pot as far as overdoses and side effects go as the hormone widely dispersed to other systems. It's also legal and won't get you arrested.
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#45 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

Thc doesnt effect hormone levels much but it does inhibit dht binding to the androgen receptor according to two vitro studies. The smoke from cannabis has a chemical that prevents testosterone from metabolizing into estrogen thus counteracting the whole effect.


So how do they have evidence for suppressing T? How is it data from human samples shows suppressed levels and lower sperm counts, even though temporary, but somehow raises T? I think something's missing. Perhaps more Free T, but less available to use T. The difference being that one has been partially metabolized and is waiting to be recycled.
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#46 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:36 AM

When i smoke a decent amount of potent marijuana, particularly a strain with a high proportion of cannabinoids/thc ratio (indica), I notice strong, almost unpleasant bodily sensations. I think these are from the anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis.

I also notice similar, uncomfortable bodily sensations when supplementing with resveratrol.

My speculation is that these sensations are sometimes uncomfortable because I already have very low levels of inflammation as a result of lifestyle/ low bmi (19.4).



Does any of this sound plausible?

Indica varieties have alot more CBD which can cause headaches and other bodily pains. Sativa varieties are used for pain relief and contain virtually no CBD. CBD, IIRC causes inflamation, but its effects are usually dwarfed by the THC. It's possible you got a bad harvest. I've also read that fungi that grow on the stuff can have toxins, perhaps these are causing your discomfort? I also read somewhere that THC can be made synthetically and it sounds safer than pot that could have any kind of crap in it. there is also the possibility that an amateur farmer used a strong fertilizer that isn't meant to feed plants for human consumption but results in vigorous growth.

Maybe Saffron would be a better way to go...


I've heard good things about saffron, though I haven't tried it, I have bulbs for it though.
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#47 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:41 AM

I have friends who smoke pot, and the damage is slowly becoming apparent. they sometimes have little moments while I am talking to them where they look like they are about to pass out, but they soon return to normality after milliseconds, it looks like some sort of sesiure, and they only smoke about an eighth to two eighths a week.


I know that cannabis is not good for you


It is much more complex than that. Cannabis is like a mother to millions upon millions around the world. It is their spirit guide. Their plant ally. It warms them at night and soothes their troubled souls in the day, without lying to them like alcohol, stimulants, and other people. It allows them to be at peace with themselves and the universe. For some people, marijuana allows them to live with themselves, and to deal with a troubled past. My wife is a prime example. Without marijuana (and she has gone many months without), she begins to think herself into a mental breakdown. She is consumed with thoughts of her past, confused about the present, and worried about the future. With marijuana, she lives like a 'normal' human being.

You say your friends are slowly being damaged. Have you ever met anyone who has become completely debilitated from their use of marijuana? People whose minds simply don't work? Who you can't talk to because their sort of seizures have gotten so bad that they are catatonic? Talking anecdotally... Living in the bay area, I have met dozens of well aged lifetime pot-heads (multiple daily smokers) who don't appear to be any worse off than the rest of joe public.

It is also easy to observe what seems to be negative impressions of the stoned youth. But don't forget that many many people are inherently lazy anyway. They play computer games with or without pot. They don't exercise with or without pot. Nor do they eat well or study well.


There is and probably has always been a reason for calling it "getting stoned."
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#48 Adaptogen

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:43 AM

????

#49 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

????


Hmmm... it was years ago, but I had come across a site with detailed instructions from the marinol patent on how to make marinol. It yeilded 5 canibinoids including primarily THC and no CBD making it superior as a pain reliever. IIRC the site was very simple and had a cloudy blue background or a blue background with white dabs on it. The patent was owned by in Israeli company I think.

Or were you asking about a different post?

#50 abolitionist

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

there are definately unwanted effects from over comsumption

but from a pure longevity perspective - even over consumption could lead to longer lifespan due to;

1. slower metabolism
2. lower body heat
3. protection against free radicals
4. cancer provention
5. lowering of stress hormones
6. neuroprotection
7. anti-inflammatory

so even if you overconsume and make yourself retarded you may live longer (all things being equal)

If one could maintain a healthy lifestyle while using cannabis I think the overall effect would be beneficial in terms of longevity.

Also eating the leaves and ground seeds is a good idea from a health perspective.

Edited by abolitionist, 11 January 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#51 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

It looks to me to be one of those things that may slightly extend life, but which may also allow enough extra damage to accumulate to severely diminish your state of being at EoL. The slight benefit is simply outweighed as it can lead to a state disrepair that makes it more difficult to further extend life. There are simply better options. The only attraction to this one is getting high. Living longer and being retarded also means making bad decisions likely to shorted lifespan... Give it up, it doesn't work unless you're high.
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#52 abolitionist

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

what damage cryonicsculture? - even cannabis smokers have greater lung volume and less cancer in the mouth, throat, and lungs

you're just playing it safe in terms of societal acceptance IMO

Edited by abolitionist, 11 January 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#53 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

No pot makes one lazy and prone to believe in and seek out afterlifes/longevity that really isn't there when they should know better. It allows people to accept bad circumstances rather than fight to change them. It's Death's tonic, though I will admit that it does have medical benefits for pain, anxiety, PTSD and a few other things. But for everything but pain and hunger there are more effective solutions.
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#54 abolitionist

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

temporarily lazy with intensive use - definately contributes to that though I know people who are chronics and are highly active and professional people

there's no link between pot use and believing in false solutions

those are gross generalizations

Edited by abolitionist, 11 January 2013 - 09:42 PM.

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#55 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

The strong desire for something esp as in the case of immortality, as it is essentially a survival mechanism, is a risk for polluting one's judgement, as is smoking pot. Synergistic risks are a really bad idea.
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#56 joelcairo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

Um, what? Anyway this is not a subject that can be resolved through debate, it's a matter for scientific investigation. The facts that it has an anti-alzheimer's effect (as posted earlier in the thread) and that it seems to have beneficial effects in cancer treatment are an interesting start.

#57 anagram

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:31 AM

here is a study showing that THC the main ingredient in marijuana is extremely damaging to mitochondria
you might be fucking your mito's up every time you light up...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16414979


in addition, there are literally zero studies showing it has a positive effect on lifespan despite people smoking, and studying cannabis for thousands of years.


marijuana
1. makes you a little insane, cannot enjoy life properly
2. the fear
3. kills the money you could spend on ntBHA or some other supplement if you want greater lifespan
4. may lead to some form of mental illness depending on frequency of use and such


no fun...

Edited by anagram, 12 January 2013 - 02:32 AM.

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#58 abolitionist

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

Have their been any studies on Cannabis and longevity yet?

I read that article but it will take some learning to understand it completely. I'm not sure that the reasons for the alteration of the mitochondrial function were fully understood from that study.

... and it may be possible (I'm playing devil's advocate) that the alteration of mitochondrial function has a protective effect

Will be interesting to see scientific studies. There is good reason to investigate the possible benefits beyond pure science.

Edited by abolitionist, 12 January 2013 - 07:25 AM.


#59 nupi

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

marijuana
1. makes you a little insane, cannot enjoy life properly
2. the fear
3. kills the money you could spend on ntBHA or some other supplement if you want greater lifespan
4. may lead to some form of mental illness depending on frequency of use and such


Or high CBD strains just might cure anxiety disorders...

People are going to use drugs anyway and as far as they go, Cannabis has a pretty decent side effect profile. Claiming it is longevity enhancing is however probably a bit too much

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#60 abolitionist

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:06 AM

all the fears listed above can be mitigated by using Cannabis in different ways - there are also strains without THC that do not have much of any psychedelic effect

Cannabis is a big plant with many components - if smoking the buds can cause paranoia and make you lazy doesn't mean that cannabis itself has no potential value in the pursuit of longevity

Edited by abolitionist, 12 January 2013 - 10:11 AM.





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