147 replies to this topic

[npcomplete]

I have a friend with colon cancer, now in remission after surgery and chemo, that would probably say that cannabis is one of the best antiemetics out there. She is a nurse (RN), so is at least somewhat familiar with the spectrum of antiemetics. It is common for cancer patients to say that they prefer cannabis to FDA approved prescription Marinol® or dronabinol, and prefer the FDA approved cannabinoid-like drugs to other antiemetics. So for the severely ill it could be said that some of the cannabinoids are in some sense "life extending" since the patient can at least continue therapy and nutritional measures.

One of the issues with Marinol/Dronabinol is that it is only THC. It lacks some of the other cannabinoids like CBD mentioned earlier that are known to have a "buffering effect" on the psychological effects of the THC. Since consumption of pure THC and dronabinol has been associated with paranoia and anxiety at higher dosages in sensitive individuals, some patients prefer either cannabis or FDA approved drugs like Nabilone (schedule 2, vs Marinol schedule 3) that have a mix of synthetic cannabinoids with THC and CBD-like effects.

There is another cannabinoid drug called Sativex that is seeking FDA approval, and is already approved in other nations for pain and multiple sclerosis. It is an oral spray that is an extract of cannabis. When / if approved, that may be preferred by patients that want the medicinal properties of cannabis but would like to avoid smoking it. One of the reasons that some prefer the antiemetic properties of cannabis over oral drugs like Marinol is that Marinol goes through the digestive system, and has a typical gastrointestinal time delay. This is the same GI tract that has the patient ready to vomit... The Sativex spray would allow patients with serious medical issues to get the rapid delivery of the cannabinoids without GI delay or problems with lung irritation.

Whether "regular" cannabis use promotes longevity in healthy individuals, or alternatively has a net negative impact on the user, the burden shifts considerably to those making the claim. It may be true, but the burden has shifted. That is an easy test for acute phase vomiting, nausea, and pain, and intermediate term issues like wasting diseases, but unfortunately, long term claims like longevity in healthy individuals require long term tests.

[abolitionist]

yes, it should be studied by those not associated with the government (given their history of manipulating data to justify making drugs illegal)

I think there is good reason to do such a study and many experts apparently agree given the many positive benefits of the plant.

We already know that it turns off cancer genes, fights inflammation, reduces metabolic rate, lowers body temp, etc. etc.

www.maps.org does research on cannabis as an independent organization they may be able to get such a test going.

[Adamzski]

I smoked a huge amount of pot over a 5 year period, 1/4 ounce to 1/2 ounce per week. Hydro all bud. It really helped my focus, it kind of drem me into my own world where I could totally focus on my tasks at hand and be very creative. It did make me seem a little brain dead to people but I think that it was just my brain was always too busy focusing on grandiose blue sky ideas. Those stereotypical stoners you think of, they are not dumb, there minds are just ticking over on bigger things.. Now.. it just depends on what they are focusing on,,, its all wasted if they are just thinking of feema camps, reptilians and NWO type crap all day but pot can be great if you can focus its effects to productive things.
Made me paranoid with social anxiety... It was cool at the time, I got a lot done, designed my software smashed of my head and I think I wired my head up in a way that does not see limits by being smashed all those years.

[Adaptogen]

i think i have marijuana induced social anxiety, at least partially. but it makes me much more interested in creating music. and is keeping me interested in learning computer coding. I make good use of the appetite stimulating properties as i naturally have appetite problems and nausea.

downsides are occasional lethargy and sleeping around 10 hours if i don't set an alarm.

i think i am going to try and weed it out of my regimen though, I need less anxiety in my life..maybe..or perhaps that is the life of a (drugged)musician

[anagram]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16414979
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12533310
these articles show that THC is damaging to mitochondria at even a very low concentration, causing widespread apoptosis which is always a bad sign, always.
in the second article it says that cyclosporin A, a mitochondria permeability transition pore blocker, blocked the effects of THC. Cyclosporin A is a neuroprotective agent because it prevents caspase-3 from happening, caspase-3 = apoptosis. so basically THC causes apoptosis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2174024
this study shows that marijuana causes massive amounts of genetic damage, which will probably open up the doors to cancer and reduced life span.



I have hypothesized that some of THC's antioxidant capacity is because of its inhibition of mono amine oxidase, which could be good for longevity, though its effect on mitochondria is to significant and damaging to be good at all.

personally, I feel that Carnosine, exercise, iron reduced diet, zinc supplementation, and Carotenoids helped me escape any negatives that Marijuana may have given me long term, I feel like I did before I ever smoked.

Edited by anagram, 13 January 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[lifebuddy]

It's been interesting reading this thread via my email every morning. I think the most interesting idea I have heard so far regards to government sponsorship of anti-marijuana studies. The DEA's absolute opposition to marijuana is so intense that they are desperate to convince the general public that it is a menace. There might really be some minor dangers here and there, but it is nothing compared to what they are trying to insinuate. The current head of the DEA is a blithering idiot. She blabbers more rhetoric than an average politician, and is absolutely committed to the idea that the consumption of marijuana must be demonized for the good of society. As a result of the DEA's focus on condemning marijuana, they have funded hundreds of studies that have attempted to prove that marijuana is bad for you. They block most applications from organizations that wish to analyze the herb in a more neutral manner. It is right shame.

[anagram]

yah, I agree that the Goverment kinda doesn't want people to smoke Marjiuana. but if you want a true Goverment conspiracy then look no further than supplemented iron in almost all the food we eat, and the lack of selenium or zinc in most foods, the Goverment makes it really difficult to get those into your diet and actively makes it difficult to get good health care. some of the benefits that Marjiuana seems to offer involve stopping inflammation through a killing mechanism in mitochondria. Apocynin( a cheap vanilla like chemical) seems to selectively stop the formation of inflammation induced free radical damage by selectively inhibiting the enzyme NAPDH oxidase, without the apoptosis Marjiuana causes. Amazingly Apocynin appears to stop Parkinson's and extend the life span of ALS/Parkinson's afflicted mice while Marjiuana only temporarily covers up the symptoms by stopping mitochondrial function which prevents the cell from making hydrogen peroxide.(shown in studies in my last post, just above lifebuddy's post)


here are the studies on Apocynin
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22202030
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23092448


I know what I am going to add to my stack...

Edited by anagram, 13 January 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[abolitionist]

https://www.medify.c...esity-diabetes/ ;

"According to research published in the British Medical Journal, marijuana use is independently associated with a lower prevalence of diabetes. Further, two compounds found in marijuana (THCV and cannabidiol) suppress appetite, increase metabolism and raise the amount of fat the body burns, making them potential combatants against diabetes and other obesity-related diseases.

In the cross-sectional study of over 10,000 adults, researchers compared marijuana use (no use, past use, light and heavy current use) to prevalence of diabetes. Analysis included data related to demographics, body mass index (BMI), smoking status, alcohol use, total serum cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein, fasting plasma glucose level and more.

Results showed that marijuana users had a lower age-adjusted prevalence of diabetes compared to non-marijuana users. And the prevalence of inflammation (elevated C-reactive protein) was significantly higher for non-marijuana users than among past, current light or heavy users."

Edited by abolitionist, 19 January 2013 - 03:59 AM.

[anagram]

ok, it lowers BMI, but unless you are way over weight then there is likely no chance of living longer from smoking.
and the study you posted is taking about specific cannabinoids, not THC, which is the main ingredient in marijuana.


THC and marijuana are potent uncouplers of mitochondria, which promotes fat metabolism which may explain why smokers are skinnier than average Americans.
unfortunately, both are awful for your mitochondria so I would not recommend smoking for longevity.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11485387
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12533310
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16414979
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1313532

Edited by anagram, 19 January 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[abolitionist]

What are you worried about from the mitochondrial changes Anagram?

These changes may very well confer a longevity effect.

Do you think it will give you cancer, cause a disease, or harm DNA?

Edited by abolitionist, 19 January 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[anagram]

the massive increase in oxidative stress caused by cannabis is pretty bad for you. it is known to lower immune function, and cause aggressive cancer which is likely caused by DNA damage. so yah, i think it would be extremely counter productive toward life extension. the swelling of mitochondria is typically a very negative sign.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1205770

Edited by anagram, 19 January 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Adamzski]

I have never heard of any of the strongly anti pot agency's or groups talk of cancer.
I dont think oncologists would condone giving pro-cancer erbs to their patients. But being a stoner is crap, it wont help you live longer that's for sure, it may make you less motivated to exercise and look after yourself.

[anagram]

I have never heard of any of the strongly anti pot agency's or groups talk of cancer.
I dont think oncologists would condone giving pro-cancer erbs to their patients. But being a stoner is crap, it wont help you live longer that's for sure, it may make you less motivated to exercise and look after yourself.

I agree, smoking drains to much from motivation to even be a nootropic. Why don't people take Selegiline or something else instead, that would be "totally radical man".
Stoners think they are being oppressed by the government, though they haven't considered the fact that they are able to get ounces of this "extremely illegal miracle drug" for only a few hundred. for the real substances the government wants to keep illegal, it can do that easy (Lsd.)

Edited by anagram, 20 January 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[hooter]

Most people make the mistake of not supplementing when smoking.

From what I've read, cannabis affects vitamin B, zinc & magnesium levels as well as melatonin levels.

I experience far less cognitive dulling with my 'cannabis support stack':

* 2x 600mg Piracetam
* Hair Skin Nail Vitamin (Vit A, Iron, Zinc, Calcium, Selenium, Cysteine)
* Mangesium
* Vitamin B, C, D
* Melatonin

Try to also eat a lot of vegetables (I just get those huge frozen mixed bags and put it in the steamer). Also force yourself to do an hour of cardio 6 days a week.

***

Do not assume that just because people you know are 'mentally slow' because of cannabis. I've had moments where I was mentally slow because of crushing depression and ADHD, and I smoked cannabis to alleviate it. While I was not equally intelligent as I would be normally, I was more intelligent than sober.

Edited by hooter, 20 January 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[Adamzski]

Yeah I think sups would help. I really believe that my years stoned did change my mind wiring, I was so creative at that time but did nothing too effective with all those ideas. Now that I'm not constantly smashed I still have this creative mind set but can implement my ideas.
Wow I think it took me about two years to straighten up haha.
A friend last night offered me some pot while he was smoking it and yeah I passed.. he then told me about the NWO and the Rockafellers and the smart grid and the Japan radiation etc etc... Such a waste of your head long term.. Maybe all these conspiracy theories are true but whether or not they are true has little effect on my goals and life..

[anagram]

supplements are not going to completely stop the damage caused by mitochondrial swelling! supplements are for preventing the small amount of damage that people experience from day to day life.


its not like this
-bro, I got some noopept in me, I can drink this mercury!

[abolitionist]

Adamzski ; some stereotypes and disinformation but the concern about mitochondrial swelling is interesting

oh yes if you smoke you will believe in shape shifting reptilians from another dimension and you will falsely believe the government is oppressing you (which is actually true) - anyone who cares about life extension should be very concerned about how FDA regulations are killing them and preventing them from pursuing happiness - If someone feels that separate from the global conspiracies they are living in an imaginary shell.

Anagram ;

"the massive increase in oxidative stress caused by cannabis is pretty bad for you. it is known to lower immune function, and cause aggressive cancer which is likely caused by DNA damage. so yah, i think it would be extremely counter productive toward life extension. the swelling of mitochondria is typically a very negative sign."

you're going to have to provide evidence that cannabis causes aggressive cancer when there are so many reports about it curing and stopping cancer

oxidative stress? most cannabinoids are anti-oxidants

immune function has been shown to be reduced - which may not be a bad thing depending on the person

you can't play the 'dude' comments and be a winner when you are using that lazy style of self-indulgent self assuredness in the construction of your own arguments

Edited by abolitionist, 20 January 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[abolitionist]

RE : Anagram;

"supplements are not going to completely stop the damage caused by mitochondrial swelling!"

do you have a link for evidence of damage - if pot were damaging mitochondria in the liver then people would be becoming septic which is not observed with cannabis

(the study you posted was measuring the effects on rat livers)

do you think the medical cannabis doctors do not care about destroying livers and damaging mitochondria?

Edited by abolitionist, 20 January 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[anagram]

Adamzski ; some stereotypes and disinformation but the concern about mitochondrial swelling is interesting

oh yes if you smoke you will believe in shape shifting reptilians from another dimension and you will falsely believe the government is oppressing you (which is actually true) - anyone who cares about life extension should be very concerned about how FDA regulations are killing them and preventing them from pursuing happiness - If someone feels that separate from the global conspiracies they are living in an imaginary shell.

Anagram ;

"the massive increase in oxidative stress caused by cannabis is pretty bad for you. it is known to lower immune function, and cause aggressive cancer which is likely caused by DNA damage. so yah, i think it would be extremely counter productive toward life extension. the swelling of mitochondria is typically a very negative sign."

you're going to have to provide evidence that cannabis causes aggressive cancer when there are so many reports about it curing and stopping cancer

oxidative stress? most cannabinoids are anti-oxidants

immune function has been shown to be reduced - which may not be a bad thing depending on the person

you can't play the 'dude' comments and be a winner when you are using that lazy style of self-indulgent self assuredness in the construction of your own arguments

-test tube studies-
antioxidants

-in vitro-
limit inflammation via lowered immune system among other mechanisms
pro oxidant for mitochondria, and its toxicity is enhanced by BHA
toxic to all cells including cancerous ones
nmdar antagonists, stopping the phosphorylation of CREB, and a lot of other cell functions.
deleterious to DNA/cellular structure, caused by mitochondrial dysfunction
will increase cells consumption of fats, glucose, and oxygen(mitochondrial uncoupling)
will damage the hippocampus

-in vivo- there are not to many studies on THCs effect on human mitochondria after use of marijuana
will increase cells consumption of fats, glucose, and oxygen
may damage the hippocampus
increases the risk of ravenous and aggressive cancer
http://www.webmd.com...sticular-cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19204904
increases the chance of schizophrenia/ neurological problems
increases dopamine(endogenous antioxidant), and other catcholamines and 5-htp
will get you "high"


- if you want mitochondrial uncoupling and inhibition of glycation and lipid peroxidation, just use low dose asprin, it confers the benefits of marijuana and is not to dangerous. marijuana just creates to much of a sticky situation, you shouldn't have the chance of getting schizophrenia from a daily supplement, its unhealthy.

Edited by anagram, 20 January 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[abolitionist]

from - http://www.webmd.com...sticular-cancer ;

"The study also doesn’t prove that marijuana causes cancer. In fact, the relationship the researchers found wasn’t easy to explain. Men with lighter habits or who had given up pot smoking had a higher risk of testicular cancer than those who were current smokers or who reported heavier use."

so why use it as evidence?

http://www.alternet...._mental_illness ;

"debunking the myth between marijuana and mental illness"

Edited by abolitionist, 20 January 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[abolitionist]

Anagram ;

http://phys.org/news154280470.html ;

It appears to help prevent damage to cells by interacting with mitochondria ;

"In a paper published in the Journal of Neuroscience, the researchers report on their studies into cannabidiol - a naturally occurring molecule found in cannabis. Also known as CBD, it is not the constituent that gives the high - that compound is called tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - and so may be more acceptable as a drug treatment. Both compounds are currently used in a pharmaceutical medicine to help patients relieve pain and other symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis. Now researchers have discovered how CBD actually works within brain cells. By interacting with mitochondria - which are the power generators of all cells - it can help maintain normal levels of calcium allowing cells to function properly and providing a greater resistance to damage."

Edited by abolitionist, 20 January 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[Adaptogen]

Marijuana and cardiac dysrhythmia.
http://books.google....na drug&f=false

I think i have experienced atrial fibrillation as a result of marijuana use

[anagram]

yah, my bp has dropped while smoking. couch lock times 10x. It may have been caused by atrial fibrillation, maybe due to reduced calcium influx into my heart cells caused by nmda receptor antagonism, or the blocking of what ever mechanism cells bring calcium into cells with.

I read somewhere about this group in California who do chelation with EDTA accidentally killed several people by chelating to much calcium, it caused several heart attacks.
I think that although rare, a few people have died from the calcium decrease / nmda receptor antagonism that cannabis causes, they died from heart attacks.

Edited by anagram, 21 January 2013 - 04:56 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Smoking is always bad for mitochondria in the lungs! It has nothing to do with weed.

Alot of the negative effects are purely from carcinogenic chemicals produced from combustion.

[Adamzski]

oh yes if you smoke you will believe in shape shifting reptilians from another dimension and you will falsely believe the government is oppressing you (which is actually true) - anyone who cares about life extension should be very concerned about how FDA regulations are killing them and preventing them from pursuing happiness - If someone feels that separate from the global conspiracies they are living in an imaginary shell.

^^^ That there, its not productive and looking at prisonplanet.com or thinking about these things helps nothing.
All the stoners are paranoid! If I am certain about anything then it is this! I was paranoid and my friends who smoked were paranoid. Increasing the number of paranoid delusional people in the world can help nothing

Big pharma and the military industrial complex do have a huge amount of control over things but smoking pot can not change this.

Its a common theme among pot users, withdrawal from society, withdrawing into there own heads. I have experienced it first hand.

They say schizophrenics self medicate with pot and I do think it helps some people. In most of the things I have read about this the genuinely mentally ill people who use pot say it makes them feel normal. I feel that pot is so much safer than many of these anti psychotic drugs and AD/Stimulant/psyc drug cocktails prescribed, you don't hear too much about pot smokers cutting their own throats, or killing themselves that often.
People who are crazy already, maybe pot can help them but for fairly regular people who smoke the longer they smoke and the more they smoke the crazier they get.

I'm not anti pot and I don't like people that think it is a menace to society, occasionally smoking a bit wont hurt anyone and if people with MS or mental illnesses say it provides some comfort to them then that is great, let them have as much as they want.

You could do some worse things but smoking pot daily can only be bad for your physical and mental health unless you have an illness that you find it relieves the symptoms of.

[nupi]

^^^ That there, its not productive and looking at prisonplanet.com or thinking about these things helps nothing.
All the stoners are paranoid! If I am certain about anything then it is this! I was paranoid and my friends who smoked were paranoid. Increasing the number of paranoid delusional people in the world can help nothing

I wonder if that isn't more because of the fact that government/parents/whomever are after pot smokers, so being paranoid might actually be a reasonable stance?

[anagram]

Smoking is always bad for mitochondria in the lungs! It has nothing to do with weed.

Alot of the negative effects are purely from carcinogenic chemicals produced from combustion.

actually in one of the studies on pub med, they used pure THC starting at 10micromoles, no smoke carcinogens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12533310
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11485387
I also found out recently that paraquat is the herbicide of choice by many non professional growers. its cheap, and by smoking/touching the weed, it generally increases your risk inhalation, and the subsequent risk of mitochondrial damage.

Edited by anagram, 21 January 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[machete234]

I also found out recently that paraquat is the herbicide of choice by many non professional growers. its cheap, and by smoking/touching the weed, it generally increases your risk inhalation, and the subsequent risk of mitochondrial damage.

Non professionals will do their best to use biological solutions simply because the end product is for themselves.
Its the "professionals" who want to maximize their profit and do everything to ensure that.

Also in your study it says "exposed to smoke extracts" so this means they burned something, THC itself wouldnt cause smoke when heated to the evaporation point.
The other one clearly says "marijuana smoke"

Edited by machete234, 22 January 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Adamzski]

When I was 14-15, yeah I know its great to be smoking pot so young:) well.. there was all kinds of pot around, hash, compressed bricks, purple heads, skunk and many others, a lot of it imported. By the time I was 20yo all that was available was Hydro, grown mostly by guys experimenting and with no idea how to make it work.. often it would be burnt by being too close to the lights or harvested at the wrong time or tasting of chemicals as they forgot to leech it.

This here will give you a good idea of pot in Australia http://www.inthemix....p/t-195216.html

Its a running joke in AU that when the pot crackles its the flyspray.

[kevinseven11]

Ive read that dopamine is the key to a longer life, thc upregulates dopamine production so this could be good for longevity.