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micronized vs peanut butter vs?


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#1 smithx

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:17 PM


I've been taking 2gm of resveratrol for a while (RevGenetics 99% at the moment), and was interested to see them coming out with a micronized form.

In some correspondence with Hedgehoginfo, he mentioned that he had tried mixing his resveratrol with peanut butter, and that he thought that might help it to be absorbed more slowly.

I've been doing that, and I can say that the RevGenetics 99% stuff has no bitter flavor for me. When mixed into creamy peanut butter, it disappears within a few seconds. The only danger is that I may eat too much peanut butter!

So my questions:
  • Is the resveratrol dissolving in the peanut oil?
  • Is the peanut butter treatment likely to increase total absorption?
  • How do you think this compares with taking micronized resveratrol in capsule form?
My assumption is that you would either go micronized or use something like peanut butter or miralax (which sounds kind of distasteful to me).

What are your thoughts on the best way to increase absorption and maximize effectiveness?

Edited by smithx, 29 July 2008 - 09:19 PM.


#2 maxwatt

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:23 AM

I've been taking 2gm of resveratrol for a while (RevGenetics 99% at the moment), and was interested to see them coming out with a micronized form.

In some correspondence with Hedgehoginfo, he mentioned that he had tried mixing his resveratrol with peanut butter, and that he thought that might help it to be absorbed more slowly.

I've been doing that, and I can say that the RevGenetics 99% stuff has no bitter flavor for me. When mixed into creamy peanut butter, it disappears within a few seconds. The only danger is that I may eat too much peanut butter!

So my questions:

  • Is the resveratrol dissolving in the peanut oil?
  • Is the peanut butter treatment likely to increase total absorption?
  • How do you think this compares with taking micronized resveratrol in capsule form?
My assumption is that you would either go micronized or use something like peanut butter or miralax (which sounds kind of distasteful to me).

What are your thoughts on the best way to increase absorption and maximize effectiveness?


Yes, any oil, including peanut oil in peanut butter, will dissolve resveratrol.
Other non-hydrscopic supplements (CoQ10, eg_ show superior bioavailabiliyt and higher blood serum levels when dissolved in oil.
this should be superior to micronized resveratrol in a capsule.

Micronization helps when using a dispersant to mix resveratrol into a water-based liquid. If it dissolves into oil, no difference. Microniation will also help if using cyclodextrins to make a water soluble form of resveratrol.

At this time, I believe I get the most effect from resveratrol using milk protein to bind to and dissolve it; milk, chocolate milk, yogurt with lots of stirring, or sour cream wok for me. I use joint paint, or lack thereof, as a measure of nf-KappaB inhibition, as a proxy for relative blood serum levels.

BTW, I think dissolving resveratrol in a milk protein (whey) solution, then evaporating or spray drying, and encapsulating the powder, would be a very effective delivery mechanism. More so than micronized. Anthony, if you read this, want to work on developing this?

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#3 niner

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:42 AM

In terms of formulations for which we have actual published pharmacokinetic data, a micronized suspension in HPMC (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) solution looks like the best bet. This is the conclusion that Sirtris came to; that's what SRT501 is, mostly. RevGenetics does have a micronized product advertised, although I don't know if it's in stock. Milk protein is certainly easy, palatable, and cheap, all of which are nice qualities. I'd be happier with some experimental evidence that it was delivering the drug well, but at least maxwatt's arthritic toe indicator is favorable on it.

#4 sUper GeNius

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 04:30 PM

In terms of formulations for which we have actual published pharmacokinetic data, a micronized suspension in HPMC (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) solution looks like the best bet. This is the conclusion that Sirtris came to; that's what SRT501 is, mostly. RevGenetics does have a micronized product advertised, although I don't know if it's in stock. Milk protein is certainly easy, palatable, and cheap, all of which are nice qualities. I'd be happier with some experimental evidence that it was delivering the drug well, but at least maxwatt's arthritic toe indicator is favorable on it.



Maxwatt has written that he thinks it could be possible that the whey proteins may be weakly binding to t-res and transporting it to various parts of the body. I find that a fascinating idea. Might be a good to hedge one's bets, take 75% of your dose with HPMC, the other 25% with whey protein or milk.

Hat's off to 'MiniMax!"

#5 niner

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 04:46 PM

In terms of formulations for which we have actual published pharmacokinetic data, a micronized suspension in HPMC (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) solution looks like the best bet. This is the conclusion that Sirtris came to; that's what SRT501 is, mostly. RevGenetics does have a micronized product advertised, although I don't know if it's in stock. Milk protein is certainly easy, palatable, and cheap, all of which are nice qualities. I'd be happier with some experimental evidence that it was delivering the drug well, but at least maxwatt's arthritic toe indicator is favorable on it.

Maxwatt has written that he thinks it could be possible that the whey proteins may be weakly binding to t-res and transporting it to various parts of the body. I find that a fascinating idea. Might be a good to hedge one's bets, take 75% of your dose with HPMC, the other 25% with whey protein or milk.

Yeah, the milk protein might be providing a shuttling capability, at least in the stomach or some of the intestine, but the milk protein is going to be mostly hydrolyzed before getting into the body. There are some particularly stable proteins that can get into circulation in what I suspect are very small quantities, particularly in some cases of intestinal disorder, but the vast majority of protein doesn't survive the digestion process. It could be the case that a resveratrol molecule is bound to a small peptide fragment, and makes it into circulation that way, but that's pretty speculative. It might also be the case that the milk protein ultimately serves as a "solvent" of sorts, and after it gets degraded in the stomach, the resveratrol is essentially micronized. One of the ways that I've used resveratrol was just throwing it into a yogurt, vegetable, and fruit smoothie. The ease and tastiness of that is pretty attractive. I suppose I could include a little HPMC in with the kitchen sink.

#6 maxwatt

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 07:00 PM

In terms of formulations for which we have actual published pharmacokinetic data, a micronized suspension in HPMC (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) solution looks like the best bet. This is the conclusion that Sirtris came to; that's what SRT501 is, mostly. RevGenetics does have a micronized product advertised, although I don't know if it's in stock. Milk protein is certainly easy, palatable, and cheap, all of which are nice qualities. I'd be happier with some experimental evidence that it was delivering the drug well, but at least maxwatt's arthritic toe indicator is favorable on it.

Maxwatt has written that he thinks it could be possible that the whey proteins may be weakly binding to t-res and transporting it to various parts of the body. I find that a fascinating idea. Might be a good to hedge one's bets, take 75% of your dose with HPMC, the other 25% with whey protein or milk.

Yeah, the milk protein might be providing a shuttling capability, at least in the stomach or some of the intestine, but the milk protein is going to be mostly hydrolyzed before getting into the body. There are some particularly stable proteins that can get into circulation in what I suspect are very small quantities, particularly in some cases of intestinal disorder, but the vast majority of protein doesn't survive the digestion process. It could be the case that a resveratrol molecule is bound to a small peptide fragment, and makes it into circulation that way, but that's pretty speculative. It might also be the case that the milk protein ultimately serves as a "solvent" of sorts, and after it gets degraded in the stomach, the resveratrol is essentially micronized. One of the ways that I've used resveratrol was just throwing it into a yogurt, vegetable, and fruit smoothie. The ease and tastiness of that is pretty attractive. I suppose I could include a little HPMC in with the kitchen sink.



Consider that blood lipoproteins bind resveratrol, and likely act as a transport mechanism to deliver resveratrol to th cells where it exerts its effects. I suspect that binding to milk proteins is more effectively delivering resveratrol to the blood, whether by effectively micronizing it, or by another mechanism. It is unproven, but I think likely, that blood lipoproteins are acting as a transport mechanism. Would such proteing bound resveratrol show up in an HPLC blood-sample analysis? If not, human bioavailability could be much higher than Boocock's paper implied based on serum levels alone. This is all theory at this point; without studies that elucidate wnat is happening, we can only ake educted guesses. However, my body has repeatedly indicated that milk products makeit more effective, followed by mirala, HPMC and lecithin when properly used, followed by just swallowing the power in a capsule.

Biochem Pharmacol. 2004 Sep 15;68(6):1113-8.
Transport of resveratrol, a cancer chemopreventive agent, to cellular targets: plasmatic protein binding and cell uptake.Jannin B, Menzel M, Berlot JP, Delmas D, Lançon A, Latruffe N.
Laboratoire de Biologie Moléculaire et Cellulaire, Université de Bourgogne, 6 boulevard Gabriel, 21000 Dijon, France.

Resveratrol produced by several plants, berries and fruits, including grapes, is one of the best known natural food microcomponents with potent chemopreventive properties towards the most severe contemporary human diseases: cardiovascular sickness, cancer and neurodegenerative pathologies. Demonstration of its mechanism of action also implies the elucidation of the steps of bioavailability and bioabsorption in cells and tissues. In order to estimate the relationships between the amounts of resveratrol taken up by food or drink intake, and the several possible benefits illustrated from in vitro/in vivo experiments and from epidemiological studies, it is essential to demonstrate step by step the route of resveratrol from plasma to the cell active site. In plasma, resveratrol was shown to interact with lipoproteins. This commentary also contains previously unpublished results about interactions between resveratrol and albumin and the enhancement of this binding in presence of fatty acids. We have previously described that resveratrol uptake by hepatic cells involves two processes--a passive one and a carrier-mediated one. Thanks to this last process, resveratrol, while tightly bound to blood proteins, could be largely delivered to body tissues. The intracellular proteic targets of resveratrol remain to be identified.

PMID: 15313407


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#7 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 07:17 PM

Maxwatt,

I believe their was a study on how it binds to milk proteins, I think it's one of the better ones as well. I have tried using it with a whey protein isolate shake and believe it's very, very good.

Hmm... Your big toe had gotten a tan now, hasn't it?
:)

A

#8 tintinet

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:19 AM

I would be great to have some actual hard data results of serum t-resveratrol levels following ingestion in the various forms mentioned above, maxwatt's toe notwithstanding.

#9 tintinet

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:23 AM

Just by happenstance, I've been regularly taking resveratrol with both whey and peanut butter for years...

#10 Hedgehog

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 08:16 PM

I've been taking 2gm of resveratrol for a while (RevGenetics 99% at the moment), and was interested to see them coming out with a micronized form.

In some correspondence with Hedgehoginfo, he mentioned that he had tried mixing his resveratrol with peanut butter, and that he thought that might help it to be absorbed more slowly.

I've been doing that, and I can say that the RevGenetics 99% stuff has no bitter flavor for me. When mixed into creamy peanut butter, it disappears within a few seconds. The only danger is that I may eat too much peanut butter!

So my questions:

  • Is the resveratrol dissolving in the peanut oil?
  • Is the peanut butter treatment likely to increase total absorption?
  • How do you think this compares with taking micronized resveratrol in capsule form?
My assumption is that you would either go micronized or use something like peanut butter or miralax (which sounds kind of distasteful to me).

What are your thoughts on the best way to increase absorption and maximize effectiveness?



I'm not sure if you have read or seen that paper that was just published (I posted it and then Wino errrr i mean Malbecman :) posted it as well). It basically did not matter what you used as a delivery system. The real question is what is the most effective way to activate SIRT1? A study concentration of resveratrol or a quick shot of resveratrol that is formulated w/ HPMC or HPBCD. In the vivo model I'm not sure if we have a good answer to this.

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#11 sUper GeNius

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 11:38 PM

I've been taking 2gm of resveratrol for a while (RevGenetics 99% at the moment), and was interested to see them coming out with a micronized form.

In some correspondence with Hedgehoginfo, he mentioned that he had tried mixing his resveratrol with peanut butter, and that he thought that might help it to be absorbed more slowly.

I've been doing that, and I can say that the RevGenetics 99% stuff has no bitter flavor for me. When mixed into creamy peanut butter, it disappears within a few seconds. The only danger is that I may eat too much peanut butter!

So my questions:

  • Is the resveratrol dissolving in the peanut oil?
  • Is the peanut butter treatment likely to increase total absorption?
  • How do you think this compares with taking micronized resveratrol in capsule form?
My assumption is that you would either go micronized or use something like peanut butter or miralax (which sounds kind of distasteful to me).

What are your thoughts on the best way to increase absorption and maximize effectiveness?


You are assuming that Sirt activation is the only means by which resveratrol provides benefits.


I'm not sure if you have read or seen that paper that was just published (I posted it and then Wino errrr i mean Malbecman :) posted it as well). It basically did not matter what you used as a delivery system. The real question is what is the most effective way to activate SIRT1? A study concentration of resveratrol or a quick shot of resveratrol that is formulated w/ HPMC or HPBCD. In the vivo model I'm not sure if we have a good answer to this.






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