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Magnesium (mg) on meth/mdma recovery


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#1 SWALK

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:54 AM


Hello,

I read elsewhere that Magnesium can reduce ones resistance to the effects of meth and mdma.

forst off i would like to know how this is caused?

but more importantly I would like to know if it could help in the recovery from these drugs by repairing ones brain after drug abuse?

any answere would be welcome, as well as any sugestions as to how i could repair my brain,Ibelieve i either have little or no serotonin present, or the serotonin receptors are either dead or down-regulated. any advice would be welcome, as well as any coments from anyonewhomight know of any official MDMA recovery meds.

thank you,
Joshua

#2 bgwithadd

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 06:12 PM

Hello,

I read elsewhere that Magnesium can reduce ones resistance to the effects of meth and mdma.

forst off i would like to know how this is caused?

but more importantly I would like to know if it could help in the recovery from these drugs by repairing ones brain after drug abuse?

any answere would be welcome, as well as any sugestions as to how i could repair my brain,Ibelieve i either have little or no serotonin present, or the serotonin receptors are either dead or down-regulated. any advice would be welcome, as well as any coments from anyonewhomight know of any official MDMA recovery meds.

thank you,
Joshua


Are you trying to quit or just get the most out of your use?

The biggest use for magnesium is that the type found in antacids lowers stomach PH, which makes you absorb more. I take magnesium daily, but it does not seem to really reduce tolerance for amphetamines for me to any noticable degree. There is a set therapy for withdrawl from math but I can't remember it now. It involved several expensive drugs, though. I've been wondering if neuroprotectantcs could help in this regard because they definitely make me feel amphetamines or alcohol much more strongly.

Another thing I have heard of people having a lot of success with is st john's wort, which apparantly has some mdma action to it.

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#3 SWALK

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 11:01 PM

I have quit...and never intend top take again.

I am however trying desperately to regain my life as it was before I started taking

I want to know if Mg could help me repair the damage to my derotonin cells,of if anyoneknows of anything that could help repair either the cells themselves or regrow/up-regulate the receptors.

josh

#4 bgwithadd

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 12:49 AM

Magnesium isn't going to make cells regrow, and over time they will regain their sensitivity, the living ones, anyway. Neuroprotectants might help more in that area - give piracetam a try. Especially low doses of nicotine, believe it or not. Idebenone might help a bit, too. st john's wort I have heard is useful, as I said before.

#5 Advanc3d

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 02:39 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants

#6 niner

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 03:41 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants

Just make sure that you don't start thinking of noots and antioxidants as a magic shield that will protect you from addiction or other harm. The speed/meth is the one that worries me. I'm guessing that so far you have been keeping the doses pretty low and/or have been sticking to oral dosing. If you start shooting it up or basing, look out.

#7 synaesthetic

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 05:46 AM

Lithium orotate inhibits dopamine reuptake. and increases serotonin synthesis, it's also been shown to protect the brain and increase neurogenesis.

Tianeptine can help your serotonin dendrites recover.

#8 bgwithadd

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:27 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants


How regular is regular, and what sort of doses are we talking about? The ecstasy I know is not a problem at low doses and it seems like everyone here is a regular user of speed of some kind so we all know that it's all about dose there as well, but I find it hard to believe you can take acid regularly in the long term and not have any ill effects on cognition, though it doesn't really build tolerance much anyhow, I guess. Not that I am saying I don't believe you, more like I'm saying that would be an amazing result.

#9 brotherx

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 12:05 AM

Hi Swalk,

Ashwagandha, CDP-choline(citicoline), Bacopa and Fishoil will be of good help in your situation!
Please find Ashwagandha and CDP-choline abstracts below.

I hope that helps. Get well soon!

Cheers

Alex



"
Search for natural products related to regeneration of the neuronal network.
Tohda C, Kuboyama T, Komatsu K.

Research Center for Ethnomedicines, Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, Sugitani, Japan.

The reconstruction of neuronal networks in the damaged brain is necessary for the therapeutic treatment of neurodegenerative diseases. We have screened the neurite outgrowth activity of herbal drugs, and identified several active constituents. In each compound, neurite outgrowth activity was investigated under amyloid-beta-induced neuritic atrophy. Most of the compounds with neurite regenerative activity also demonstrated memory improvement activity in Alzheimer's disease-model mice. Protopanaxadiol-type saponins in Ginseng drugs and their metabolite, M1 (20-O-beta-D-glucopyranosyl-(20S)-protopanaxadiol), showed potent regeneration activity for axons and synapses, and amelioration of memory impairment. Withanolide derivatives (withanolide A, withanoside IV, and withanoside VI) isolated from the Indian herbal drug Ashwagandha, also showed neurite extension in normal and damaged cortical neurons. Trigonelline, a constituent of coffee beans, demonstrated the regeneration of dendrites and axons, in addition to memory improvement. 2005 S. Karger AG, Basel"

"
Tohda C.

Division of Biofunctional Evaluation, Research Center for Ethnomedicine, Insitute of Natural Medicine, University of Toyama, Toyama City, Japan. chihiro@inm.u-toyama.ac.jp

Ashwagandha (root of Withania somnifera) has been used for many purposes, it is mainly considered a tonic in traditional Ayurvedic medicine. This review focuses on the effects of compounds isolated from Ashwagandha on dementia models and on the spinal cord injury model. Our study demonstrated that the active constituents, withanolide A, withanoside IV, and withanoside VI, restored presynapses and postsynapses, in addition to both axons and dendrites in cortical neurons after Abeta(25-35)-induced injury. In vivo, oral withanolide A, withanoside IV, and withanoside VI (10 micromol/kg/day for 12 days) improved Abeta(25-35)-induced memory impairment, neurite atrophy, and synaptic loss in the cerebral cortex and hippocampus in mice. Since spinal cord injury (SCI) is also difficult to treat, and therefore practical and curable strategies for SCI are desired. Oral treatment with withanoside IV improved locomotor functions in mice with SCI. In mice treated with withanoside IV (10 micromol/kg/day for 21 days), the axonal density and peripheral nervous system myelin level increased. The loss of CNS myelin and increase in reactive gliosis were not affected by withanoside IV. Additionally, sominone, an aglycone of withanoside IV, was identified as the main metabolite after oral administration of withanoside IV in mice. Withanolide A, withanoside IV, and withanoside VI are therefore important candidates for the therapeutic treatment of neurodegenerative diseases. In particular, withanoside IV was shown to control neurons as well as glial cells for reconstruction neuronal networks. To clarify key events in overcoming neurodegeneration, we are now studying the molecular targets and signal cascades of sominone."


CDP-Choline might also be of excellent help in your case.
See abstracts below

"Systems neuroscience

Cytidine-5-diphosphocholine supplement in early life induces stable increase in dendritic complexity of neurons in the somatosensory cortex of adult rats

V. RemaCorresponding Author Contact Information, a, E-mail The Corresponding Author, K.K. Balia, R. Ramachandraa, M. Chugha, Z. Darokhana and R. Chaudharya
aNational Brain Research Centre, NH-8, Nainwal Mode, Manesar, Haryana-122050, India

Accepted 9 April 2008.
Available online 16 April 2008.

Abstract

Cytidine-5-diphosphocholine (CDP-choline or citicholine) is an essential molecule that is required for biosynthesis of cell membranes. In adult humans it is used as a memory-enhancing drug for treatment of age-related dementia and cerebrovascular conditions. However the effect of CDP-choline on perinatal brain is not known. We administered CDP-choline to Long Evans rats each day from conception (maternal ingestion) to postnatal day 60 (P60). Pyramidal neurons from supragranular layers 2/3, granular layer 4 and infragranular layer 5 of somatosensory cortex were examined with Golgi–Cox staining at P240. CDP-choline treatment significantly increased length and branch points of apical and basal dendrites. Sholl analysis shows that the complexity of apical and basal dendrites of neurons is maximal in layers 2/3 and layer 5. In layer 4 significant increases were seen in basilar dendritic arborization. CDP-choline did not increase the number of primary basal dendrites on neurons in the somatosensory cortex. Primary cultures from somatosensory cortex were treated with CDP-choline to test its effect on neuronal survival. CDP-choline treatment neither enhanced the survival of neurons in culture nor increased the number of neurites. However significant increases in neurite length, branch points and total area occupied by the neurons were observed. We conclude that exogenous supplementation of CDP-choline during development causes stable changes in neuronal morphology. Significant increase in dendritic growth and branching of pyramidal neurons from the somatosensory cortex resulted in enlarging the surface area occupied by the neurons which we speculate will augment processing of sensory information.

Key words: citicholine; barrel cortex; Golgi–Cox; stroke; plasticity; Sholl analysis

Abbreviations: CDP-choline, cytidine-5-diphosphocholine; DAPI, 4′,6-diamidino-2-phenylindole; DMEM, Dulbecco's minimal essential medium; MAP2, microtubule-associated protein 2; P, postnatal day"
source:sciencedirect

"Citicoline is a complex organic molecule that functions as an intermediate in the biosynthesis of cell membrane phospholipids. Citicoline is also known as CDP-choline and cytidine diphosphate choline (cytidine 5-diphosphocholine). CDP-choline belongs to the group of biomolecules in living systems known as nucleotides that play important roles in cellular metabolism. CDP-choline is composed of ribose, pyrophosphate, cytosine (a nitrogenous base), and choline. Exogenous citicoline research in animal experiments and human clinical trials provides evidence of its cholinergic and neuroprotective actions. As a dietary supplement, citicoline appears useful for improving both the structural integrity and functionality of the neuronal membrane that may assist in membrane repair. Animal and clinical studies indicate the potential of citicoline to improve cognitive deficits, stroke rehabilitation, brain and spinal cord injuries, neurological diseases, and eye conditions."
source:pubmed


"Citicoline: pharmacological and clinical review, 2006 update.
Secades JJ, Lorenzo JL.

Medical Department, Grupo Ferrer S.A., Barcelona, Spain.

Cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine, CDP-choline, or citicoline is an essential intermediate in the biosynthetic pathway of structural phospholipids in cell membranes, particularly phosphatidylcholine. Following administration by both the oral and parenteral routes, citicoline releases its two main components, cytidine and choline. Absorption by the oral route is virtually complete, and bioavailability by the oral route is therefore approximately the same as by the intravenous route. Once absorbed, citicoline is widely distributed throughout the body, crosses the blood-brain barrier and reaches the central nervous system (CNS), where it is incorporated into the membrane and microsomal phospholipid fraction. Citicoline activates biosynthesis of structural phospholipids of neuronal membranes, increases brain metabolism, and acts upon the levels of different neurotransmitters. Thus, citicoline has been experimentally shown to increase norepinephrine and dopamine levels in the CNS. Owing to these pharmacological mechanisms, citicoline has a neuroprotective effect in hypoxic and ischemic conditions, decreasing the volume of ischemic lesion, and also improves learning and memory performance in animal models of brain aging. In addition, citicoline has been shown to restore the activity of mitochondrial ATPase and membrane Na+/K+ATPase, to inhibit activation of certain phospholipases, and to accelerate reabsorption of cerebral edema in various experimental models. Citicoline has also been shown to be able to inhibit mechanisms of apoptosis associated to cerebral ischemia and in certain neurodegeneration models, and to potentiate neuroplasticity mechanisms. Citicoline is a safe drug, as shown by the toxicological tests conducted, that has no significant systemic cholinergic effects and is a well tolerated product. These pharmacological characteristics and the action mechanisms of citicoline suggest that this product may be indicated for treatment of cerebral vascular disease, head trauma (HT) of varying severity, and cognitive disorders of different causes. In studies conducted in the treatment of patients with HT, citicoline was able to accelerate recovery from post-traumatic coma and neurological deficits, achieving an improved final functional outcome, and to shorten hospital stay in these patients. Citicoline also improved the mnesic and cognitive disorders seen after HT of minor severity that constitute the so-called post-concussional syndrome. In the treatment of patients with acute ischemic cerebral vascular disease, citicoline accelerates recovery of consciousness and motor deficit, achieves a better final outcome, and facilitates rehabilitation of these patients. The other major indication of citicoline is for treatment of senile cognitive impairment, either secondary to degenerative diseases (e.g. Alzheimer disease) or to chronic cerebral vascular disease. In patients with chronic cerebral ischemia, citicoline improves scores in cognitive rating scales, while in patients with senile dementia of the Alzheimer type it stops the course of disease, and neuroendocrine, neuroimmunomodulatory, and neurophysiological benefits have been reported. Citicoline has also been shown to be effective in Parkinson disease, drug addictions, and alcoholism, as well as in amblyopia and glaucoma. No serious side effects have occurred in any series of patients treated with citicoline, which attests to the safety of treatment with citicoline. © 2006 Prous Science. All rights reserved."


Metabolism and actions of CDP-choline as an endogenous compound and administered exogenously as citicoline.
Weiss GB.

M. Hurley & Associates, Inc., Murray Hill, New Jersey 07974-1584.

CDP-choline, supplied exogenously as citicoline, has beneficial physiological actions on cellular function that have been extensively studied and characterized in numerous model systems. As the product of the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of phosphatidylcholine from choline, CDP-choline and its hydrolysis products (cytidine and choline) play important roles in generation of phospholipids involved in membrane formation and repair. They also contribute to such critical metabolic functions as formation of nucleic acids, proteins, and acetylcholine. Orally-administered citicoline is hydrolyzed in the intestine, absorbed rapidly as choline and cytidine, resynthesized in liver and other tissues, and subsequently mobilized in CDP-choline synthetic pathways. Citicoline is efficiently utilized in brain cells for membrane lipid synthesis where it not only increases phospholipid synthesis but also inhibits phospholipid degradation. Exogenously administered citicoline prevents, reduces, or reverses effects of ischemia and/or hypoxia in most animal and cellular models studied, and acts in head trauma models to decrease and limit nerve cell membrane damage, restore intracellular regulatory enzyme sensitivity and function, and limit edema. Thus, considerable accumulated evidence supports use of citicoline to enhance membrane maintenance, membrane repair, and neuronal function in conditions such as ischemic and traumatic injuries. Beneficial effects of exogenous citicoline also have been postulated and/or reported in experimental models for dyskinesia, Parkinson's disease, cardiovascular disease, aging, Alzheimer's disease, learning and memory, and cholinergic stimulation.

PMID: 7869846 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

herapeutic applications of citicoline for stroke and cognitive dysfunction in the elderly: a review of the literature.
Conant R, Schauss AG.

Technical and Regulatory Affairs, Life Sciences Division, American Institute for Biosocial and Medical Research, Inc. (AIBMR), Puyallup, WA 98373, USA.

Citicoline (CDP-choline; cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine), a form of the essential nutrient choline, shows promise of clinical efficacy in elderly patients with cognitive deficits, inefficient memory, and early-stage Alzheimer's disease. Citicoline has also been investigated as a therapy in stroke patients, although the results of trials to date are inconclusive. Produced endogenously, citicoline serves as a choline donor in the metabolic pathways for biosynthesis of acetylcholine and neuronal membrane phospholipids, chiefly phosphatidylcholine. The principal components of citicoline, choline and cytidine, are readily absorbed in the GI tract and easily cross the blood-brain barrier. Exogenous citicoline, as the sodium salt, has been researched in animal experiments and human clinical trials that provide evidence of its cholinergic and neuroprotective actions. As a dietary supplement, citicoline appears useful for improving both the structural integrity and functionality of the neuronal membrane that may assist in membrane repair. This review, while not intended to be exhaustive, highlights the published, peer-reviewed research on citicoline with brief discussions on toxicology and safety, mechanisms of action, and pharmacokinetics.

PMID: 15005642 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]








other sources:
http://www.sciencedi...ceb09c9b76e1647



Hello,

I read elsewhere that Magnesium can reduce ones resistance to the effects of meth and mdma.

forst off i would like to know how this is caused?

but more importantly I would like to know if it could help in the recovery from these drugs by repairing ones brain after drug abuse?

any answere would be welcome, as well as any sugestions as to how i could repair my brain,Ibelieve i either have little or no serotonin present, or the serotonin receptors are either dead or down-regulated. any advice would be welcome, as well as any coments from anyonewhomight know of any official MDMA recovery meds.

thank you,
Joshua



#10 Advanc3d

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 04:15 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants

Just make sure that you don't start thinking of noots and antioxidants as a magic shield that will protect you from addiction or other harm. The speed/meth is the one that worries me. I'm guessing that so far you have been keeping the doses pretty low and/or have been sticking to oral dosing. If you start shooting it up or basing, look out.


i have smoked meth a few times,
i have nevr craved it or anything

#11 Advanc3d

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 04:17 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants


How regular is regular, and what sort of doses are we talking about? The ecstasy I know is not a problem at low doses and it seems like everyone here is a regular user of speed of some kind so we all know that it's all about dose there as well, but I find it hard to believe you can take acid regularly in the long term and not have any ill effects on cognition, though it doesn't really build tolerance much anyhow, I guess. Not that I am saying I don't believe you, more like I'm saying that would be an amazing result.



LSD is said to be the safest of all illegal street drug.

regular user in terms of, lsd and mdma a few times a month

Edited by Advanc3d, 13 October 2008 - 04:17 AM.


#12 bgwithadd

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:36 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants


How regular is regular, and what sort of doses are we talking about? The ecstasy I know is not a problem at low doses and it seems like everyone here is a regular user of speed of some kind so we all know that it's all about dose there as well, but I find it hard to believe you can take acid regularly in the long term and not have any ill effects on cognition, though it doesn't really build tolerance much anyhow, I guess. Not that I am saying I don't believe you, more like I'm saying that would be an amazing result.



LSD is said to be the safest of all illegal street drug.

regular user in terms of, lsd and mdma a few times a month


Said by who? The few times I've taken it it was pretty hard on me and took about a week to recover even though I took less than everyone else, and everyone I've known who's taken it regularly has had some obvious effects from it (though virtually all of them would deny this).

#13 Advanc3d

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 10:56 AM

i still consume MDMA/speed/meth/lsd on a regular basis.
i have not gained tolerance to any of it through 2 years ive been doing it.
why? because i take a lot of nootopics and antioxidants


How regular is regular, and what sort of doses are we talking about? The ecstasy I know is not a problem at low doses and it seems like everyone here is a regular user of speed of some kind so we all know that it's all about dose there as well, but I find it hard to believe you can take acid regularly in the long term and not have any ill effects on cognition, though it doesn't really build tolerance much anyhow, I guess. Not that I am saying I don't believe you, more like I'm saying that would be an amazing result.



LSD is said to be the safest of all illegal street drug.

regular user in terms of, lsd and mdma a few times a month


Said by who? The few times I've taken it it was pretty hard on me and took about a week to recover even though I took less than everyone else, and everyone I've known who's taken it regularly has had some obvious effects from it (though virtually all of them would deny this).


just because you cant handle the comedown doesnt mean its toxic in someway...
there is no way you can overdose on LSD, well you can but you'll be having 100 tabs at once to do so...

http://www.erowid.or...lsd_info7.shtml

#14 graatch

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:35 PM

I find it hard to believe you can take acid regularly in the long term and not have any ill effects on cognition


Said by who? The few times I've taken it it was pretty hard on me and took about a week to recover even though I took less than everyone else, and everyone I've known who's taken it regularly has had some obvious effects from it (though virtually all of them would deny this).


I've taken a lot of acid, and I still do, and my experience is that it can mentally and physically wear you out, similar to any typical 8-12+ hours of soaring mental activity/fireworks and incredibly intense sensory perceptions; however, the drug does possess a remarkably low overall toxicity, i.e. nil, for nearly all human intents/purposes/dosages, and there is no evidence of neurotoxicity whatsoever, despite the best efforts of decades of research focused on finding exactly this. In fact, 5HT2A "agonism" (quotes because my opinion rests with those who assert that the actual effect on 5HT2A transmission is complex ... and perhaps rather contrary in some ways to the expected effect) from molecules like LSD and psilocin has been found to be protective against at least one major form of neurotoxicity, glutamatergic excitotoxicity, which for example in some theories is a major component of the neurotoxicity of high stress ...

However, the serious psychic/psychiatric toxicity (as distinguished from the organic toxicity that my (and the accepted) use of 'neurotoxicity' denotes, although in these systems there is obviously always interaction, I shouldn't even need to note this, as above so below ...) of e.g. freakouts or "hell trips" is another matter. The drug can be frighteningly powerful. The risk is especially great for those with, e.g. existing tendencies to depression. I am quite glad for my intellectual purposes that the drug is not strictly psychiatric (well, I guess I'm talking as if it's legal, but you know, connections) but many, maybe even most people, would perhaps be best not taking it outside of a clinical setting (including non-western clinical settings, eh? e.g. A shamanic setting. Either way, in all things, always make absolutely sure of the competence, intelligence, openness, and benevolence of your practitioner ...). All said it is not a toy.

Anyhoo, I'm often a little tired the day following LSD. Psilocybin mushrooms make me very vibrant and active the day following, perhaps in line with their shorter duration of effect and (for me) more sedative quality.

Edited by graatch, 13 October 2008 - 06:03 PM.


#15 bgwithadd

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 12:08 AM

I think there's a lot more to drug effects than just neurotoxicity. That's just the most obvious problem that can occur. There's not much doubt that drug use (and not just illegal drugs, obviously) can permanently affect your brain chemistry. Sometimes positively, but sometimes not. Growing pathways could be seen as just as damaging as closing them off, depending on what is being changed.

That said, I imagine that LSD has it use at low doses in a therapeutic setting and from what I have seen I am absolutely sure that's true of MDMA, but at the kind of doses people use to get high I'd be wary. Like I said, even the people who are to me obviously changed from chronic LSD or pot use will never admit it (or just don't see it), but it's pretty easy to observe the changes in someone over the years. I can't even imagine what I'd be like after a hit of acid a week for the last ten years. But, I do have to wonder at the effects that neuroprotectants can have on this.

#16 graatch

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:18 AM

Ehh, you got a long post out of me.

There's not much doubt that drug use (and not just illegal drugs, obviously) can permanently affect your brain chemistry.


Sure. In fact, any experience whatsoever can and does.

The brain is constantly rewiring, changing. That statement also implies "However, the brain is constantly rewiring, changing."

I think there's a lot more to drug effects than just neurotoxicity. That's just the most obvious problem that can occur. Sometimes positively, but sometimes not. Growing pathways could be seen as just as damaging as closing them off, depending on what is being changed.


Certainly.

It all depends on varying conditions. The drug is something of an amplifier. I am bemused by my friends who take high doses at concerts with thousands of people, or go see scary movies -- a recipe for long-lasting, deeply-rooted PTSD symptoms IMO, although perhaps just for uncontrollably laughing in the dark while people throw popcorn at your head. Or what about listening to some stupid jam band while involuntarily flashing back to your most precious childhood memories? Then those memories are likely to be linked in consciousness (which is all experience) with the music forever.

More insidiously and I think to the point of what you are suggesting ... yes, perhaps encouragement of changes in the way one experiences information, for example. I certainly think so.

I'm pretty convinced that my use has left my thought more generally ... associative, prone to wild associations. I also have some mild synaesthetic feelings (nowhere near as strong as a "real" synaesthete, who for examples sees colored letters, but pretty strong especially with music) whose development I can also trace to the time following LSD experiences, especially certain specific ones.

I like these changes. But yes, other changes could occur and they could be problematic. HPPD is a strong example.

It would be interesting to note here that I gave myself something similar to HPPD as a kid, without the use of hallucinogens (although who knows what foul serpent was bathing its slimy scales in the Bowie water supply in those years). Probably 8 or 9. It started when I began to pay a lot of attention to all of the visual "junk" that shows up in sober perception -- floaters, "tweaks" in the light, bending, auras, etc. Very soon they became more and more prominent, and I kept paying attention to them, and they actually began to obscure my vision, so much that I couldn't read.

(I did complain to my parents but they didn't really understand what I was trying without much luck to describe, which isn't surprising.)

What happened was, I started forcing myself, really forcing myself, to try and ignore the phenomena ... even then I must have understood the problem as something that was mental, something that I "learned" to do. And soon they went away.

I believe similar strategies would be helpful for those with HPPD. And NOT benzodiazepines, ugh, though it's worth noting that these perceptual disturbances for one reason or another seem to me (this is just what I've gathered) tend to arise after "bad" trips, unpleasant experiences, not good ones.

HPPD is a different thing than flashbacks, btw.

at the kind of doses people use to get high I'd be wary


Yes, wary, certainly.

It's a powerful substance.

Like I said, even the people who are to me obviously changed from chronic LSD or pot use will never admit it (or just don't see it), but it's pretty easy to observe the changes in someone over the years. I can't even imagine what I'd be like after a hit of acid a week for the last ten years.


OK, well let me be straightforward with my own experience: I'm almost 21 years old now, and I've taken various doses of LSD on probably around, ~80 separate occasions, with widely varying doses, and in widely varying situations. I believe I'm still a smart, capable guy. (verily, on the brink of global domination befitting any bright young lad as well! 'tho atm I am merely a humble student ;-)) And I would say without hesitation that, overall, it has helped me; that its overall influence in my life judged from this point in time has been extremely positive, and joyous. I do not recommend this usage pattern to anyone else -- in fact I do not recommend psychedelic drugs to anyone at all, not without reservations, knowing them in person.

In my life I have had major problems with psychiatric issues (mostly ADD-Pi and "outgrowths" -- issues I am now doing very very well with defeating, due in part to my current medication regimen), but I think that the LSD has helped these problems if anything. And the benefits have really been immeasurable w/r/t the formation/synthesis of my personalities and 'philosophies' (to use a term that for sometimes-good reasons often invites ridicule when used in a drug user's speech), and my discovery of myself, and how I see and interact with the world and other people.

I've taken it to help confront my problems, at low doses as an aid to thinking and learning -- as a nootropic, to stimulate creativity*, to explore my inner and outer worlds and have visions, to have enjoyable peak experiences with the people I love, and occasionally, in the past, because I was bored or unhappy. The last reason, as one may expect, resulted (though in far from every case) in many of my more negative experiences, some of which had major psychic or physical ramifications that I had to deal with afterwards. But I learned from these too.

I think I am far from a burnout, anyway. And I personally know many other people who have used LSD, some once or only a few times, some many times, many more than me, who are not burnouts; on the contrary, many successful, intelligent boys and girls. The few people I know who do seem to have been very obviously adversely affected by the use of these substances are people who had definite existing problems. Certainly that's not always the case, but.

Anyway, I haven't used it in many months, actually, but who knows when I will be able to enjoy its good use.

* I could go into more details about this if you like. I mean, especially, in the sense of a stimulation of novel thinking. To be sure, many of the 'ideas' that you get while high are ... um, inscrutable ... or retarded ... but many are not. And the same is true of ideas that appear in the multifarious instances of what we call "sober" consciousness.

I am surprised that its usage at (especially) LOW, threshold doses, to open up the associational channels a bit, during e.g. writing has not been explored in more detail. But I think a person who could put it to good use would require an extraordinarily honed mind and willpower, and knowledge too, to surmount the negative inclinations produced -- confusion, fogginess, mania or silly artistic choices even.

Just some superfluous wonderings and very-personal inclinations of mine.

Schiller kept rancid apples in his desk and pulled them out to sniff when he wanted to think of le mot juste ... and apparently T.S. Eliot preferred writing with a head cold, "to shatter the logical links between things and let his mind roam." (Natural History Of The Senses, Ackerman)

Edited by graatch, 16 October 2008 - 02:24 AM.


#17 bgwithadd

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:33 AM

That is extremely interesting. It's a good point about the environment people are doing things in, too. Certainly, that kind of experience at like a rave or something is bound to cause some odd changes/associations and maybe some bad trips.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that people would have degraded brain function so much as that it seems to alter their personality and perceptions. That might be a good thing, like might make someone more 'aware' or more creative, but to me it seems like the changes are just sort of 'different' generally speaking. Which is not something necessarily good in many cases. It sounds like you are much smarter about it than many people are, and I do wonder what results could be gotten combined with therapy and scientifically controlled observation, though one of the best uses I'd think would be to use it in very low doses during creative pursuits.

#18 Steve_86

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 01:27 AM

regular user in terms of, lsd and mdma a few times a month


A few times per month is way too often to be using MDMA. Aside from the health effects, you will lose the magic, and your tolerance will be very high.



I love MDMA, I think it is the most amazing drug with so many permanent positive benefits on one’s life. However I recommend you do a little more research on before continuing to take MDMA multiple times per month. Your brain takes much longer than this to rebuild serotonin, supplementing 5-HTP only helps so much.

Aside from the neurotoxicity of regular MDMA use and tolerance associated with it, there is the issue of toxic by-products left over from the synthesis. These by-products can be very carcinogenic. This issue alone should be enough to space your usage by 2 months at the very least. Personally I use MDMA 3-4x per year.

Street pills are often cut with pharmaceutical meds, possibly expired and stolen from bins. This is done to potentiate the MDMA.

I don't know how good your sources are. Most people hold way too much faith in their sources.
If you got the connections always buy/take MDMA its pure powder/crystal form. The clean peak of pure MDMA crystal is incomparable to that of pills.

Thou even with MDMA crystal it can still be of poor synthesis, can still contain toxic carcinogenic by-products, and may still be of poor purity.

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#19 carlin7386

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

Benzylpiperazine (BZP) is a recreational drug with euphoric, stimulant properties. The effects produced by BZP are comparable to those produced by amphetamine. Adverse effects have been reported following its use including acute psychosis, renal toxicity, and seizures. No deaths have been reported following a sole ingestion of BZP, although there have been at least two deaths from the combination of BZP and MDMA. Its sale is banned in a few countries, including the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and other parts of Europe.[2] However, its legal status is currently less restrictive in some other countries such as Canada, although investigations and regulations are pending under European Union laws.
Drug Rehab




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