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Does anyone know how to possibly buffer lipoic acid?


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#1 Ethan

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 02:32 AM


I like the way I feel on alpha lipoic acid and I believe it is an essential sup, however, it rips up my stomach something awful with vicious heartburn. A lot of people have this side effect. Does anybody know of a buffered or ester alpha lipoic acid that is easier to digest or how I could buffer it myself?

#2 dachshund

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 03:37 AM

You can easily prepare the racemic Na-ALA by mixing a small amount of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with lipoic acid powder. I have done this many times. I would dissolve about 1/16 teaspoon baking soda in about 2 ounces of water then add 1/8 teaspoon LA powder and stir then let sit 30 minutes or so and you will get a pale yellow clear liquid of sodium lipoate. There are many patents and technical publications that describe the preparation of Na-ALA by this method, and it neutralizes its acidic nature.

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#3 balance

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 01:21 PM

Hi Ethan,

Do you also get this when you take pure ascorbic acid (NOT calcium/magnesium ascorbates) on an empty stomach? If so, we share the same problem. However, I have heard that ascorbic acid is twice as potent as the ascorbates. And we all know this story:

http://www.nutraingr...for-the-stomach

So that said, maybe even though we can't tolerate as much vitamin C when taking as ascorbic acid, and on an empty stomach, maybe that still equals our true requirements. If you take for example 2g of ascorbic acid, that might be equal to 4g of calcium ascorbate. And if LEF is correct and not misleading us with marketing, then the dihydroquercetin would making it even more potent. I get a whole lot of trouble when taking it on an empty stomach, and get trouble with any form of vitamin C.. so I'm not advertising anything, I'm just trying to figure out why I can't handle it... So maybe that might help you out.. Who knows the lipoic acid will be less strong if you make it less acidic.. Just my theories, feel free to debunk.

Take care

#4 pycnogenol

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 02:57 PM

I like the way I feel on alpha lipoic acid and I believe it is an essential sup, however, it rips up my stomach something awful with vicious heartburn.
A lot of people have this side effect. Does anybody know of a buffered or ester alpha lipoic acid that is easier to digest or how I could buffer it myself?


Ethan,

What brand of lipoic acid are you taking? I used to get the occasional 'stomach burn' after ingesting Now Foods lipoic
acid but I've since switched to Olympian Labs lipoic acid and experience no burn whatsoever. (your milage may vary).

Edited by pycnogenol, 02 November 2008 - 02:58 PM.


#5 TheOtherIgor

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 04:02 PM

I like the way I feel on alpha lipoic acid and I believe it is an essential sup, however, it rips up my stomach something awful with vicious heartburn. A lot of people have this side effect. Does anybody know of a buffered or ester alpha lipoic acid that is easier to digest or how I could buffer it myself?


Wouldn't the pH of Na-RALA (Sodium R-alpha Lipoate) be higher than straight ALA? It's also a stablized form, which straight ALA isn't.

What you might be experiencing is your stomach acid converting regular ALA into something unpleasant. There are a couple of good topics where the more chemically inclined explain what stomach acids do to straight ALA and why RALA is more effective in the body. Here's an example post: http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=166893

Edited by TheOtherIgor, 02 November 2008 - 04:05 PM.


#6 david ellis

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:20 PM

I like the way I feel on alpha lipoic acid and I believe it is an essential sup, however, it rips up my stomach something awful with vicious heartburn. A lot of people have this side effect. Does anybody know of a buffered or ester alpha lipoic acid that is easier to digest or how I could buffer it myself?


Taking a lot of powder capsules caused me heartburn, be it NaRALA or Acetyl l'carnitine. Or even gram quantities of TMG or piracetam. So now, I mix my NaRALA with a little oil in a big spoon, take it first, so the NaRALA is separate from the Acetyl l'carnitine. Then the rest of the powders I mix up in a cup, with very little oil. The idea is to get a consistency like raw brown sugar crystals. Too much oil, and the mixture goes down in lumps, too little oil and the dry powders stick to the inside of the mouth. Just right and the mixture sets on your tongue until the water easily washes it away. This solved my heartburn problem. I have used grapeseed oil and now use warmed up coconut oil.

#7 edward

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:43 PM

You shouldn't have a problem if you take it with enough liquid and maybe a little oil as david ellis mentioned. Your stomach has a ph between 2-4 which is pretty darn acidic and it is unlikely that Lipoic Acid is going to cause that to drop any further.

If you are having such problems especially if you have heartburn at other times I would consider going in and getting an upper GI done as well as a H. pylori blood test. Both will be covered by insurance. You may have an ulcer and a round of H pylori antibiotic treatment and you should have no more issues.

#8 4eva

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:50 PM

I didn't have that problem - acid indigestion - from ALA. ALA made my insomnia worse. I am now doing an alkalizing diet and sleeping much better.
I think acid indigestion can be a sign that your body's own bicarbonate level is low.

Metabolic typing says that fast oxidizers should not take ascorbic acid. Fast oxidizers can be naturally acidic. They do better with mineral ascorbates.

Supplements like alkalizing minerals can help - calcium being the obvious one - but diet is important. The most important way to change your pH is diet. Fruits and vegetables are the main alkalizing foods.

Some people have found taking a calcium supplement helped their acid indigestion.

Those pH test strips are inexpensive and good to have on hand.

If your body responds negatively to acidic supplements why not rule out a pH imbalance.

#9 Ethan

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:55 PM

Thanks for the wealth of responses. Oddly, I can take as much EPA, DHA or ascorbic acid as I want and never have a stomach problem. I have tried several brands of ALA including AOR's R-LA and even as little as 50mg always gives me the same reaction. I am going give the baking soda a try and if that doesn't work I will mix it in with some grapeseed oil. If not, I'll just have to wait and hope a company buffers this stuff. Since a lot of people have this problem it would be a great distiguishing marketing idea, the ester-c of ALA.

#10 balance

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:57 AM

Hi Ethan,

Give GeroNova's 300mg Na-Rala capsules a try. I had the same acidity problem with Life Extension, and did not get it with geronova. Their r + r-dihydro-lipoic however did give me some acidity problems. That said, Life Extension's R-dihydro-lipoic acid is the one I get the most problems with. Also, I did see Life Extension silently updated many of their formulas, and now in their Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer it says that the lipoic acid is "micro encapsulated". Whatever that means.. that said, again, maybe it might help you out in terms of being to consume lipoic acid without problems. So those 2 products (geronova & mitochondrial) are worth a shot. Regardless, whatever you choose to do (buffer or different manufacturer) let us know how it turned out. Like Pycnogenol said here, and has said before, switching brand can fix the problem.

Finally, I heard from Relentless Improvement's Pete that the current Na-Rala formulations allow the same high absorption with food as without food. Naturally trying it with food might help you out.

#11 magnelectro

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 12:28 AM

I had this problem with bestvite's ALCAR/ALA. At first I thought it was heartburn (What else would you call a burning sensation in your esophagus?) but then I broke open a capsule and put some on my tongue. It caused an intense and painful burning. Did anyone have any luck mixing with baking soda or oil? I will try these and report back.

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#12 dachshund

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 12:47 AM

The baking soda work great. Please refer to my earlier post in this thread. However, you must not drink or mix the Na-ALA water solution with ALCAR, as ALCAR converts Na-ALA back into the ALA acid form. Simply make the Na-ALA by mixing the pure powder ALA with a small amount of baking soda, you will see some CO2 gas formation and the insoluble ALA powder will gradually dissolve to provide a clear yellow solution of the Na-ALA salt. Drink this and wait about 10 - 15 minutes before taking the ALCAR either in a capsule or the ALCAR powder dissolved in water. I hope this works well for you.




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