[quote name='NDM' post='284268' date='16-Dec 2008, 12:30 PM'][quote name='Advanc3d' post='284207' date='15-Dec 2008, 03:54 PM'][quote name='NDM' post='284163' date='16-Dec 2008, 04:53 AM'][quote name='Advanc3d' post='284115' date='15-Dec 2008, 05:08 AM']Ginkgo works as a mild MAO inhibitor.
i took about 150mg once with 100mg of 5-htp at night.. i woke up at 4am with some head banging headaches... must of been borderline serotonin syndrome i assume.
in my opinion, MAOI is a lot better than SSRI's, unles you can get your hand on tianaptine ( SSRE )..
SSRI's only help to move serotonin from one place to another, does not INCREASE overall serotonin levels.
infact, SSRI in long term cause serotonin depletion since it blocks the brains ability to recycle serotonin...
if anything MAOI, or most importantly SSRE's will increase total serotonon "storage" levels allowing for overal higher serotonin transmission..dont forget, MAOI also can make people sleepy. Increase in serotonin also means increase in melatonin.
also, Administration of Serotonin precursors without dopamine precursors causes, in long term Dopamine depletion and unbalance neurotransmittor levels. this means, taking 5-htp every night without dopamine precursors will cause depression in long term since serotonin and dopamine precursors use the same "rate-limiting" enzyme for their metabolism.
also administration of 5-htp will cause a trigger to increase MAO production to get rid of excess 5-htp (hence why the good feeling doesnt last long).
MAO floods the synapes and metabolises the extra serotonin. dont forget in this synapes you also have Noradrenaline and Dopamine. they will also get metabolised causing abnormal neurotransmitter levelss....
this ofcourse is all in "long term"
best thing to do is, take 5-htp in the night, and then tyrosine or l-dopa in the morning....[/quote]
So then what the heck is the secret of people who are both happy and highly productive?
If serotonin makes one happy but also sleepy...then what?
Also, some folks have commented that supplementation with neurotrasmitter precursors doesn't work
because of the negative feedback loops of the brain...so MAO inhibitors would be needed.
Is your idea about Ginkgo based on that one night or also on scientific evidence that in fact it acts as a MAOA inhibitor?
Same question about SJW? Is it established as a MAO inhibitor?
Also, does one know if MAO - A inhibitors would work for both serotonin and dopamine?
I don't have a degree in biochemistry.
[/quote]Ginkgo as MAOI....
[quote]Extracts of Ginkgo biloba leaves produce reversible inhibition of rat brain monoamine (MAO). Both MAO-A and -B types were inhibited to a similar extent. The MAO inhibitory compound(s) were present in dried or fresh Ginkgo biloba leaves as well as in commercially available capsules of Ginkgo biloba and appear to be heat stable with relatively low molecular weight. MAO inhibition by Ginkgo biloba may be a mechanism underlying reported anti-stress and anxiolytic activities of this natural product.
no supplement will make somone "happy" and highly productive,
unless its stimulants and amphetamines.. and thats different to amino acid neurotransmitter precursors.
SJW is a mild SSRI.
there is two catergory of MAO, A and B.
MAO-A inhibition would work for Serotonin and Noradrenaline and and some trace amines...
MAO-B inhibition would work for Dopamine and phenylethylamines..
Thanks, that's amazing: I've just lowered my daily dose of Ginkgo from 180 mg/day to 60
because I read about that massive clinical study that failed to find any dementia-related cognitive benefits after 6 years of daily use
So I guess I'll go back to 180, but this time for mood, not so much for cognition;
Also, another MAO-B inhibitor is quercetin, so I've got three items to boost dopamine: Phenylalanine + Ginkgo + Quercetin
I gave up on SJW because it screwed my distance vision.
Phenylalanine is very poor at increasing Dopamine, so is Tyrosine..
Reason for why Phenylalaline is poor because its to far up in precursor level, and it can be turned to other things instead.
Tyrosine is favored to be converted to Noradrenaline rather than Dopamine since it uses Vitamin C as a co-factor,
Vitamin C is the co-factor in the enzyme conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline.....
best bet is to use L-Dopa
Quercetin is also a potent CYP3A4 inhibitor so it will potentiate some drugs also
i actually didnt know of its COMT and MAOI-B activity, interesting.
I hope it does a better job at it than Deprenyl since deprenyl makes me sleepy and lethargic for what ever reason... also makes me cranky
Edited by Advanc3d, 16 December 2008 - 09:11 AM.