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Pramiracetam the most effective supplement for memory enhancement?


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#1 HenryHH

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:44 AM


I'm a university student majoring in biology, and as you would probably guess, biology classes require extensive memorization of course material in order to excel (i.e., earn A's) on tests. I seem to earn the grades I desire through regular studying and revision of notes, but such rigorous study habits demand many hours of each week if they are to be adhered to, and I'd like to make an attempt to shorten the amount of study time necessary to memorize information.

I've read that pramiracetam is the strongest analogue of the racetam drugs and am interested in purchasing a bottle (Nubrain seems to be the only online vendor that sells it that also accepts PayPal as a form of payment); however, before I pay such an exorbitant price for a supplement the effects of which I've neither experienced nor verified, I wanted to solicit "user input" from current/past pramiracetam users.

Does this product create a noticeable improvement in memory for you? I define "noticeable improvement" as the ability to memorize a particular volume of information in a lesser amount of time than is typically necessary to memorize the same volume of information under "control" conditions.

Also, how does the drug make you "feel" during the minutes/hours after taking it?

Edited by HenryHH, 17 January 2009 - 04:46 AM.


#2 Pike

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:56 AM

before you look into the cholergenics, i would take a good look at the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. more memory enhancing effects. more bang for your buck.

Personally, I experimented with Huperzine A and had fantastic results.

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#3 Duke

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:41 PM

before you look into the cholergenics, i would take a good look at the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. more memory enhancing effects. more bang for your buck.

Personally, I experimented with Huperzine A and had fantastic results.


If it's memory you're after an acetylcholine precursor and Huperzine A is favorable, and cheap (relative to Pramiracetam). The former I'd recommend Alpha-GPC if you want top notch results.

Apparently Vasopressin and other drugs of its nature are unparalleled in memory enhancment... but I've hardly researched those and the claims I've seen on imminst are pretty dubious regarding their efficacy.

Can't go wrong with using caffeine (or other stimulants) just for the gung-ho factor whilst studying. ;)

Edited by Duke, 17 January 2009 - 02:50 PM.


#4 kenj

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:08 PM

I'd second a huperzine supplement (200-400mcg) for memory support; one of the few sups I actually notice an obvious effect from, regarding short-term memory enhancement.
Pramiracetam is an odd drug, -- only if you were severely deficient in ACh it might be helpful, IMO.
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#5 HenryHH

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:25 PM

I appreciate the replies so far.

So seeing as how every responder has recommended and reported favorable results taking Huperzine A and an acetylcholine precursor such as Alpha GPC, I'll probably purchase a few bottles of those products. Are there any cheaper forms of choline that would still work sufficiently, though?

I'm guessing that pramiracetam doesn't exert significantly noticeable memory-enhancing effects? Would any of the racetams be worth purchasing for this purpose, or is Huperzine A (and maybe Vasopressin) the most effective supplement available?

Thanks...

#6 dupez

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:23 PM

might want to try Piracetam...

I am currently taking:
Piracetam, Choline Citrate, Super B Complex, Vitamin D, Multivitamin, Fish Oil.
I also exercise daily.
I have experienced GREAT RESULTS.

#7 Pike

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:26 PM

I appreciate the replies so far.

So seeing as how every responder has recommended and reported favorable results taking Huperzine A and an acetylcholine precursor such as Alpha GPC, I'll probably purchase a few bottles of those products. Are there any cheaper forms of choline that would still work sufficiently, though?

I'm guessing that pramiracetam doesn't exert significantly noticeable memory-enhancing effects? Would any of the racetams be worth purchasing for this purpose, or is Huperzine A (and maybe Vasopressin) the most effective supplement available?

Thanks...


Well, the thing is, with AChE Inhibitors, you really don't need to be taking lots of ACh precursors, as they effectively already boost the amounts ACh in your brain already (nifty huh?). So, theoretically, If you bought a year's supply of Huperzine A (which isn't really all that expensive... at all) it would be like 360capsules. take 2 a day maybe every other day (to avoid tolerance/deregulation issues), and your body's natural ACh levels will skyrocket, thus making it impractical to be intaking large amounts of Choline sources.

If you're looking for the most bang for your buck, with clearly noticable results, then I would go with a good AChE Inhibitor (like Huperzine A or Galantamine), the good old fashioned Piracetam, and maybe one bottle of Alpha-GPC. Then just alternate between taking the Inhibitor on one day, and like 250mg of Alpha-GPC (TOTAL) the next day. The synergy of it will work like this:

Piracetam will increase the ACh production in your brain
A-GPC will give your body all it needs to make that ACh
Inhibitor will severly decrease the elimination of that ACh (thus eliminating the neccesity of choline sources on the days you take it)

700g Piracetam = about $20 (easily a year's supply if you're conservative on like 2g a day or so)
Huperzine A (200mcg) - 180 Capsules x2 = about $30
50g Alpha-GPC = about $25 (and this is easily a year's supply if you're only using 250mg every other day, which will be more than enough on a powerful inhibitor like HupA)

Total: about $75 for a YEAR'S supply.

Or you could go with paying $45 for a 10 day supply of Pramiracetam, along with paying through the nose for a good ACh precursor like A-GPC all the time, or selling yourself short and buying crappy choline supps, intaking large amounts, and smelling like fish.

rule of thumb: Inhibitors make your wallet happy. Unless, of course, money isn't an issue, then you could go with some insanely powerful shit like a Donepezil+Memantine combo and just go nuts with your infinite memory =D

Personally, i use a choline source. However, there's a lot of debate as to whether or not they're even necessary. If you find yourself getting headaches and whatnot from your stuff, then maybe a choline source could work for you.

Be careful with Vassopressin/Desmopressin (a more powerful analogue). Even the vendors who sell them have a laundry list of cautions to take into mind when using it. However, like all powerful & equally dangerous noots, one can really benefit from them as long as they administer them carefully. These are drugs after all, and they carry the same responsibilities of administering them with caution. It just happens to be that most noots are pretty harmless, but that doesn't mean they're not dangerous if administered irresponsibly.
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#8 dupez

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:39 PM

nice summary Pike
;)

#9 HenryHH

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:08 PM

Thanks for such a thorough and informative post, Pike! :~

I think I'll hold off on buying the pramiracetam for now and first purchase and determine what benefits I derive from taking an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

Question for everyone: would huperzine A or galantamine exert the most pronounced enhancement of memory? I'm tempted to purchase a 120-ct. bottle of huperzine A (200mcg/capsule) by Source Naturals off of eBay for around $16 (including shipping). Conversely, I haven't found a single galantamine product selling for less than $70-$80.

So I would experience the most "noticeable" effects from these two supplements and not the racetams?

Also, is it absolutely necessary to supplement with additional choline, or is the amount produced naturally in my brain sufficient (e.g., do I really need to buy alpha GPC)?

Thanks...

#10 steelsky

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:25 AM

I've noticed some improvement in memory while on Modafinil. The evidence is circumstantial, but I wouldn't dismiss them so easily. I can remember numbers much effectively, some of which I'm not even trying to remember but are just "kept" in my mind.

#11 Pike

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 05:36 AM

Thanks for such a thorough and informative post, Pike! :~

I think I'll hold off on buying the pramiracetam for now and first purchase and determine what benefits I derive from taking an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

Question for everyone: would huperzine A or galantamine exert the most pronounced enhancement of memory? I'm tempted to purchase a 120-ct. bottle of huperzine A (200mcg/capsule) by Source Naturals off of eBay for around $16 (including shipping). Conversely, I haven't found a single galantamine product selling for less than $70-$80.

So I would experience the most "noticeable" effects from these two supplements and not the racetams?

Also, is it absolutely necessary to supplement with additional choline, or is the amount produced naturally in my brain sufficient (e.g., do I really need to buy alpha GPC)?

Thanks...



1) Straight up - DON'T buy any noot off of Ebay. You could end up with a bottle of multi-vitamins that Joe Soandso replaced, or who knows what. Besides, you can find the SN 120ct of 400mcg Huperzine A caps on reliable/safe internet vendors for even cheaper! I managed to just search it up in google product search and found ones going for $10 (and tack on maybe a few more for shipping).

2) Look up "Galantamind." You can buy a 90ct bottle of 4mg each for roughly $45-50, a 90ct bottle of 8mg for about $90, or a 180ct of "Galantamind PLUS," which apparently has all sorts of goodies, for about $120 (which effectively makes it about 2 bottles of 90ct at roughly $60 a pop.) Remember, the "theraputic" dose for Galantamine seems to be 8mg twice a day... but that's for people with Alzheimers. We don't have AD; we're young, fully healthy, strapping chums who don't need vast amounts of ACh!

3) Actually, if you look up the studies on the AChE inhibitors, Huperzine A is one of the most powerful ones we have on the market (moreso than Gal). I may be mixing up memories, but I think I remember seeing a study showing the lasting effects of HupA were actually longer than Gal.

4) Unrelated, but a lot of people seem to report a fantastic increase in motivation when on Galantamine.

5) I wouldn't say don't ever buy Pram. But something to take into account is that a big reason that people reccomend the infamous "attack doses" of Piracetam is because it's something completely foreign to your body. The theory behind it is that your body really just doesn't know what to do with it, until it sees that it's been in the system for a while and your body perks up to say "oh, look what we have here!" You wouldn't want to just start off with Pram to find out that your body really doesn't know how to respond to the racetams. If you wanted to enjoy some prami, maybe just buy one box, and then take 2 caps a day during the weekends (that's 10 Prami-filled weekends of fun), but probably after 3-6 months of Piracetam. That way, your body actually knows what to do with that powerhouse racetam.

6) I said before, I use choline sources for my noot enjoyment. I'm one of those people who get those "ACh headaches" or "brain fog" if I don't supp some sort of choline in (I'm using Centrophenoxine right now). However, theres a lot of us that simply just don't get that (those lucky punks) and don't really bother with choline sources. I'd say, give piracetam a try with an "attack dose" for a week or so, and if you find yourself getting headaches, then it would be a safe bet to say you'd benefit from some sort of choline source (i.e. Bitarate, Citrate, CDP-C, A-GPC)

7) Kind of unrelated, but I've only been into nooting for little over 3 weeks (you can check out my log on here), and I will say that, though I saw results from day 1, the enhancements have become much more pronounced over the course of time that I've been administering it. I guess I am one of those "easy responders" to noots. However, I DID notice immediate response with Huperzine A, and I saw roughly the same measure of effect each time. From the anecdotal reports I look at, most/all people seem to respond quite well to the inhibitors.

And finally, keep in mind, the MAJORITY of us noot-ers don't really suffer from the ailments that our nootopics are meant to treat. We're just looking for a bit of an edge. So when you read that the "theraputic dose" for X-noot is Xmg/kg or whatever, that dose is to treat that unfortunate Soandso with his ailment. We don't suffer from too many ailments (however, I've been noticing a lot of us seem to have found this lovely sub-culture because we have ADD/ADHD... me included). At first, when I started noots, I was going with that whole 75mg/kg theraputic dose of Piracetam (about 5600mg). Now, I notice that the effects I get are WAY more pronounced at just 3.6g or 2.7 a day (about 50 or 36mg/kg for me). So if you want to buy that bottle of Galantamine, just take it maybe once every 4 days, and you should probably see some benefits!
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#12 HenryHH

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 02:11 AM

1) Straight up - DON'T buy any noot off of Ebay. You could end up with a bottle of multi-vitamins that Joe Soandso replaced, or who knows what. Besides, you can find the SN 120ct of 400mcg Huperzine A caps on reliable/safe internet vendors for even cheaper! I managed to just search it up in google product search and found ones going for $10 (and tack on maybe a few more for shipping).


Woops -- I just couldn't hold back! I hope I didn't get ripped-off by too high of a mark-up, but at least I'll finally be able to experience the effects of huperzine A for myself.

For those of you that have taken it, what do you "feel" like 30 mins.-1 hour after administering a single dose (of 200 mcg...?)? Are the effects acutely noticeable, or do you only notice benefits after taking the product regularly for an extended period of time? I'll be taking the huperzine on an empty stomach, so hopefully that will help to hasten the onset of its effects.

#13 bgwithadd

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 02:45 AM

You should have immediate results in about 10 minutes. Noticing them might be more tricky, but hup a seems to have the most dramatic memory results of any common supplement and I test better on it than without but you need to take it twice a day. Try mybraintrainer.com to get a baseline before and after.

The biggest all around booster for everything is nicotine patch and adderall, which boost not just memory but seemingly everything (especially nicotine has a broad spectrum of improvement, it seems) but they have their downsides. I've ditched nicotine entirely for now and reduced my addy intake until I can find some quality vasodialator supplements. I'd rather be slightly addled than have a limp member and skin that looks like a thousand year old man. Hopefully I can get back on the nicotine patch because having constant delivery is very nice.
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#14 Pike

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 08:36 AM

1) Straight up - DON'T buy any noot off of Ebay. You could end up with a bottle of multi-vitamins that Joe Soandso replaced, or who knows what. Besides, you can find the SN 120ct of 400mcg Huperzine A caps on reliable/safe internet vendors for even cheaper! I managed to just search it up in google product search and found ones going for $10 (and tack on maybe a few more for shipping).


Woops -- I just couldn't hold back! I hope I didn't get ripped-off by too high of a mark-up, but at least I'll finally be able to experience the effects of huperzine A for myself.

For those of you that have taken it, what do you "feel" like 30 mins.-1 hour after administering a single dose (of 200 mcg...?)? Are the effects acutely noticeable, or do you only notice benefits after taking the product regularly for an extended period of time? I'll be taking the huperzine on an empty stomach, so hopefully that will help to hasten the onset of its effects.



I got the screaming meanies taking Hup on empty stomaches.
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#15 maverick_dw_04

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 04:40 PM

Hey Henry. I've read through the post and see that you've found some other stuff to try besides piracetam for now. But since your post was about piracetam, and I've been taking piracetam for about a month now, I figured that I'd add my two cents worth.

The first thing to keep in mind, and Pike kind of hinted at this, is that many of these drugs can have different effects on different people. In my opinion, this is due to the natural body chemistry that you have to start off with before taking these drugs which alter the chemistry. And before that, you can take into consideration that body chemistry can vary pretty widely, depending on diet, exercise, other drugs or medication that you may be taking, even alcohol or cigarettes, as well as genetics. So you never quite know exactly how you are going to react to any specific drug or supp until you try it yourself.

Personally, from my piracetam use, I have not noticed anything as far as specific cognitive enhancement or memory improvement. However, I have always had what I feel to be a good memory and an above average standard of cognition and logic. So maybe if piracetam actually does provide any benefits in those areas, I just don't notice them. But who knows.

But I can say that piracetam makes me feel a bit more motivated and alert during my day, which is something that you might be interested in. Mostly though, the effects I've noticed from piracetam have been positive anti-depression effects. It's not like a high that just makes me forget all my troubles or anything, but I just feel more well-rounded or something. I don't really know how to explain it or why piracetam makes me feel that way, or whether it's all just a placebo effect, but to me it is very noticeable.

As for the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, choline supplementation, Huperzine, or any of the other drugs mentioned, I have no idea, and have not tried them, but it would be interesting to hear your personal results, so please keep us posted.

#16 HenryHH

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 10:12 PM

Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to post my first experience with taking huperzine hopefully this week.

Is huperzine the only drug I should consider to have strong evidence of memory-enhancing qualities?

#17 HenryHH

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 08:56 PM

The huperzine supplement (Source Naturals, 120 count, 200 mcg/pill) arrived in the mail today. Around 2:17, I took one 200 mcg pill on an empty stomach aside from an apple that had been eaten about 20 minutes prior. I didn't notice any effects 30 minutes later, and an hour after taking the huperzine, no effects had become noticeable. About 12 or 13 minutes ago, I took another 200 mcg pill. I may just be "experiencing" a placebo effect, but during the last few minutes, I seem to have grown mentally tired; my mind almost feels "content" and relaxed, kind of like one feels when lounging out by the pool on a hot summer day.

I seem to have a minor headache in a specific area of my head that I can almost "touch" the location of with my finger.

So aside from these unusual and subtle effects, the huperzine doesn't seem to be exerting any noticeable effects. Should I be able to now read notes written during my classes and memorize their material with fewer re-reads?

#18 Pike

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 09:05 PM

The huperzine supplement (Source Naturals, 120 count, 200 mcg/pill) arrived in the mail today. Around 2:17, I took one 200 mcg pill on an empty stomach aside from an apple that had been eaten about 20 minutes prior. I didn't notice any effects 30 minutes later, and an hour after taking the huperzine, no effects had become noticeable. About 12 or 13 minutes ago, I took another 200 mcg pill. I may just be "experiencing" a placebo effect, but during the last few minutes, I seem to have grown mentally tired; my mind almost feels "content" and relaxed, kind of like one feels when lounging out by the pool on a hot summer day.

I seem to have a minor headache in a specific area of my head that I can almost "touch" the location of with my finger.

So aside from these unusual and subtle effects, the huperzine doesn't seem to be exerting any noticeable effects. Should I be able to now read notes written during my classes and memorize their material with fewer re-reads?



Don't take anymore for today. 400mcg is more than enough at a time. But the next time you try it, try taking it with food. I sometimes find that helps. Though, huperzine isn't exactly one of those noots you experience on an extreme physical level (very subtle), but you notice it with your memory. however, the fact that you have a headache actually could be a sign that 400mcg is too much for you and you have the infamous "ACh overload headache" that people get when they take too much racetam at one time without choline.

#19 HenryHH

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 09:10 PM

Actually, it's not really a "headache"; the sensation passed around 10 minutes ago, but it actually felt more like a physical "hollowness" in a particular area of my brain. I won't take anymore for today, though.

#20 Pike

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 10:18 PM

You know, seeing as you just bought a big bottle of huperzine capsules, I'll just jot down for you the things I managed to pick up that made the best of my Huperzine experiences. These may or may not apply to you, but maybe you could try a few and it might be of benefit to you

So here's EVERYTHING I wrote down on my little notebook dedicated to transhumanism in the section marked "Nootropics" under Huperzine. Also, note that these things are what worked best FOR ME. The things I wrote in brackets aren't in my notes, but just things I'm inserting for the sake of making sense. I DO have ADHD, so some of the things listed are what were contributing for that:

- Take twice a day, at most 3 times [my pills were 100mcg]. Once in the morning and at night. Once in the afternoon if necessay.
- Taking HupA in 3 administrations gives me stomach pain.
- Taking with a Dopamine precursor such as DLPA or L-Tyrosine significantly seems to help with memory aspect [Perhaps not necessary for someone like you without ADHD.]
- Taking with meds [a.k.a. my prescribed adderall] seems to significantly enhance memory effects. Only take one cap on these days.
- Take HupA caps with food or else diarhea/stomach pains occur [sorry if that was TMI]
- Taking with Vasodilators [At my disposal at the time, I had 5mg pills of Vinpocetine & bulk Sulbutiamine&Idebenone] dramatically increases memory acquisition effects, but stacking more than two [when I used all three at once] gives me severe headaches.
- Idebenone seems to work best with HupA [never was able to explain this].
- Don't take HupA with more than 500mg of Centro [shortened for Centrophenoxine] or else ACh headaches occur.
- Taking 1000mg+ of Centro and Huperzine gives severe brain fog
- Taking Hup A more than two days in a row seems to have componding effects. Try taking every other day.

That was all of the observations I was able to make while I had my little 60ct bottle of L-Huperzine A from Cognitive Nutrition (which, by the way, is WAY overpriced compared to other vendors). Try some of these and maybe they can help you enjoy your Huperzine A a little more.

#21 HenryHH

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 04:43 AM

Thanks for the feedback regarding your experiences supplementing huperzine in combination with other supplements.

You mentioned that you experienced more pronounced improvements of memory functioning by supplementing with l-tyrosine and the vasodilators vinpocetine and sulbutiamine (during separate trials, of course); I actually have a bottle of l-tyrosine that I bought several years ago. I've only taken a pill or two, so I hope that the encapsulated tyrosine powder has retained potency.

Would you say that you had a better experience when combining huperzine with tyrosine or vinpocetine/sulbutiamine?

Also, after I made my last post before this one, I left to go eat, and during that same period of time I began to actually "notice" effects from the huperzine. I felt a sort of "calmness" mentally and discovered that I was able to read material with greater clarity and with less susceptibility to distraction. As I would read articles, etc. (I went to Barne & Noble after dinner), the words seemed to be read individually by my eyes; it was almost like the words were flowing past my eyes and pausing instantaneously to be "processed" and read aloud in my head. Also, as I was driving, I would experience a strange sensation when looking out the window that felt almost as if I was observing the passing scenery in "third-person." It's hard to describe, but it was similar to viewing a distant horizon through the lens of a pair of binoculars: even though you're still viewing and processing the landscape with your own eyes, it's like they're "detached" from your body.

Also, throughout my entire experience, I experienced variations of the aforementioned "physical" headache that seemed to fluctuate but were always permeating. There was nothing placebo about any of the aspects of my experience; I truly "felt" different.

I look forward to further supplementation with huperzine and am anxious to analyze the effects exerted by synergizing the administration of huperzine with tyrosine...

Edited by HenryHH, 24 January 2009 - 04:46 AM.


#22 Ben

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 04:55 AM

Personally I'm a little a bit weary when it comes to AchE Inhibitors. Worried about down regulation.

Last year at uni I stuck to regular and strenuous cardio exercise (this is was best nootropic by far) and then took piracetam, CDP-Choline and fish oil as a "what the heck?". Worked very, very well.


I'll add that with using only Ach precursors you get additional safety. The body can simply stop its production of choline, as far as I know, however, if you're blocking the enzyme then you have a situation where you could potentially have an overload of choline.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 24 January 2009 - 04:58 AM.


#23 HenryHH

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:52 AM

Pike: before I leave for school tomorrow morning, I'm going to take a dose of huperzine (200 mcg) and an (as of yet) undetermined dose of L-tyrosine. When you were experimenting with combining huperzine with adjunct supplements, how much L-tyrosine did you take? I have a bottle of L-tyrosine caps that each contain 500 mg of L-tyrosine...

Edited by HenryHH, 26 January 2009 - 03:53 AM.


#24 HenryHH

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:00 AM

- Taking with Vasodilators [At my disposal at the time, I had 5mg pills of Vinpocetine & bulk Sulbutiamine&Idebenone] dramatically increases memory acquisition effects, but stacking more than two [when I used all three at once] gives me severe headaches.
- Don't take HupA with more than 500mg of Centro [shortened for Centrophenoxine] or else ACh headaches occur.


Between sulbutiamine and vinpocetine, which substance provided greater boost in memory/concentration when administered conjunctively with huperzine? I just remembered that I still have unspent store credit at Vitamin Shoppe, and it's listed as a product sold on their website, so I might stop by there tomorrow and pick up a bottle. They don't sell sulbutiamine, though.

Edited by HenryHH, 26 January 2009 - 04:01 AM.


#25 demitriden

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:21 AM

I did a comprehensive search on Huperzine on this board. Its strange how from 2005ish to 2007ish many members strongly recommended against using Huperzine, but from 2008+ more are for it. Any ideas why?

Oh and Henry, just from reading the boards (this and another) for the past 3-4 day -- I just wanted to let you know that Vinpocetine is quite a popular choice taken in conjunction with ACh inhibitors like Huperzine. I haven't tried them yet (might soon), though they are in my cart. Vitacost.com is selling both for under $20, 200mcg and 10mg.

Edited by demitriden, 26 January 2009 - 04:26 AM.


#26 Pike

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:22 AM

Hey HenryHH,

When I take my L-Tyrosine, I do my best to get near 500mg, actually! It's just that the bottle of bulk Tyro I have is 920mg per 1/4tsp scoop (life extension brand).

I found, actually, the best memory-enhancing effects were from combining the HupA with 40mg of Vinpocetine with 410mg of Idebenone (spaced out throughout the day, of course). 410 sounds like a wierd number, but it's just a 1/4-tsp from BulkNutrition's Idebenone.

As far as sulbutiamine goes, for me, it helps with the memory aspect a little, barely. I find Sulbutiamine taken in nootropic doses to be more of an "acquisition helper" than a memory booster. Idebenone is more like a "clarity" boost. Vinpocetine didn't really do much of anything for me on it's own, however, I found it kinda gave like a 15% "boost" of sorts to the effects I feel when I take my normal noot stack.


My easiest way to describe my first-hand experiences with the three is most quickly summed up like this:
----In combination with HupA
- Sulbutiamine: "I get it, now!"
- Idebenone: "So, what you're saying is..."
- Vipocetine: Nootropic magnifying glass.

As far as dopamine precursors go, I have NO EXPLANATION whatsoever as to why that helped me. It could have just been that I was in a less anxious mood, and was able hold on to info longer.

Ben - Aus is absolutely right on the money, though, about routine exercise. I personally do about 2 hours of cardio a day, and try to do about an hour of weight lifting at least 3 to 4 times a week (maintenance, mostly). I think it should be generally understood that to partake in aspects of Transhumanism culture, it's necessary to be treating your body with the respect it deserves beyond that of the average person.
Although I differ slightly in my opinion of it's affects on AChEI deregulation, I don't imagine it's something safe to be taking every day (for fully healthy people). At most, It's something you might take in 30 day cycles every other day, or if you didn't want to worry about cycles, maybe just once every 4 days (which is how long it actually takes to be eliminated from your system... roughly).
Ben - Aus is also right about precursors: there's nothing wrong with them whatsoever! However, being a student, I know what it's like to have a tight budget. And for me, supplementing even 500mg a day of Alpha-GPC would cost me WAY over what I have the money for; but on the same token I don't want something crappy like Choline Bitartrate and have to take about 3g a day of it to balance out my choline levels only to smell like fish! If I had the choice available to me, believe me, Alpha-GPC or CDP-Choline all the way.

Demitriden: I suppose as more knowledge becomes available about these kinds of things, we begin to dismiss some of our skeptical reservations we once had about them. Personally, I have very few Noots (e.g. Huperzine) listed in my "Do NOTs" section, because I feel that almost any of them (even some of the more racey pharmaceutical ones if you consider them nootropics) can be of benefit or even enjoyed as long as they are done so responsibly.
Think of the way you'd use alcohol. If you're at a dinner party and feel like enjoying a glass of some fine red-wine, then go for one (or two, you sly devil)! Heck, if you're at a house party and there's some splendidly tasting martinis being poured, you might even enjoy one of those suckers. However, you delve into irresponsibility the moment drinking that martini at the house party turns into waking up in the morning to crack open a beer. Caution is always to be considered and risk is something to be inherintly accepted.

Edited by Pike, 26 January 2009 - 06:44 AM.

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#27 Guacamolium

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:07 AM

Pram is a very... "unique" nootropic. If you have the cash, then see if it is alright for you. I put my money on Oxiracetam right now in terms of cognitive performance. Piracetam is awesome for creativity. Aniracetam is good for just having a racetam added to a stimulant stack, like a modafinil-based one.

Alpha-GPC will always be my cholinergic until at least the next one comes out. It's easily the best for me. No uncertainty there.

I want to try Rolipram. If anyone is up for getting it synthesized by a reputable American (or Canadian) company so we can Guinea-Pig it - let me know. I'll pitch in for a few grams.

#28 demitriden

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:11 AM

Pram is a very... "unique" nootropic. If you have the cash, then see if it is alright for you. I put my money on Oxiracetam right now in terms of cognitive performance. Piracetam is awesome for creativity. Aniracetam is good for just having a racetam added to a stimulant stack, like a modafinil-based one.

Alpha-GPC will always be my cholinergic until at least the next one comes out. It's easily the best for me. No uncertainty there.

I want to try Rolipram. If anyone is up for getting it synthesized by a reputable American (or Canadian) company so we can Guinea-Pig it - let me know. I'll pitch in for a few grams.


Can you compare your results with piracetam and oxiracetam with more details? Thnx!

#29 HenryHH

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:52 PM

Pram is a very... "unique" nootropic. If you have the cash, then see if it is alright for you. I put my money on Oxiracetam right now in terms of cognitive performance. Piracetam is awesome for creativity. Aniracetam is good for just having a racetam added to a stimulant stack, like a modafinil-based one.

Alpha-GPC will always be my cholinergic until at least the next one comes out. It's easily the best for me. No uncertainty there.

I want to try Rolipram. If anyone is up for getting it synthesized by a reputable American (or Canadian) company so we can Guinea-Pig it - let me know. I'll pitch in for a few grams.


What effects did you notice when taking pramiracetam? I have some extra "spending money" that I'm itching to spend on a bottle, but if oxiracetam exerts similarly desirable results, I'll save money and buy that instead...

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#30 HenryHH

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:56 PM

General question: what additional benefit is derived by supplementing huperzine with a choline source (e.g., alpha GPC)? If I experience headaches when taking huperzine, is that symptomatic of an inadequate natural supply of choline?




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