• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Coca tea produces ketones


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 zawy

  • Guest
  • 291 posts
  • 46
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:23 AM


I had noticed that 30 minutes after eliminating and drinking coca tea in Peru that my ketones in urine increased from "negative" to "high". Normally, I have to go 8 to 12 hours without food after a small meal the evening before before I see a "slight" reading. So it's a very impressive result. I did a search on cocaine and ketones and found 14% of diabetic ketoacidosis hospital admissions were from cocaine users. http://archinte.ama-...158/16/1799.pdf
ketoacidosis is producing lots of ketones without enough elimination and thereby raises acidity of blood. They are pretty sure the excess ketone production in the liver is caused by 2 or 3 hormones released by the cocaine (cortisol and catecholamine). Coca tea and the dried leaves are used widely in peru and contain 1% of the alkloids in cocaine. They sell it on the streets and in standard tea packaging in grocery stores. Technically, the tea is not legal in the U.S. unless the alkaloids are removed (this is a unique and special provision in the law so that Coca-Cola can import it and keep its original flavor). The tea can make you test positive on a drug test. In peru they say it helps you go without food, work harder, is relaxing, and prevents high-altitude sickness. You can't go to Cusco or Macchu Picchu without being bombarded with this advice. The miners and farmers in both Bolivia and Peru use it to work harder and longer on less food. All these benefits of coca match nicely with wikipedia's info on ketones:

".... are "magic" in their ability to increase metabolic efficiency [altitude sickness], while decreasing production of free radicals, the damaging byproducts of normal metabolism. His work has shown that ketone bodies may treat neurological diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease,[5] and the heart and brain operate 25% more efficiently [altitude sickness again] using ketones as a source of energy.[6] Research has also shown ketones play a role in reducing epileptic seizures with the so-called high-fat, near-zero carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet

I'll try caffiene, ginkgo, and green tea to see if urine ketones raise so much. Compared to coffee and tea, coca tea is much more calming. It's not considered a drug in Peru by any means. Considered about the same way we consider coffee, or even less.

I read coffee, tea, and cocoa (chocolate) have ketones *in* them. So maybe it's not all "fat burning" ketones.

Edited by zawy, 19 May 2009 - 11:46 AM.

  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • WellResearched x 1

#2 zawy

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 291 posts
  • 46
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 May 2009 - 04:31 PM

After taking 3 times the recommended dose of ginkgo and tea extract with a cup of tea, coffee, and cocoa, my ketones went off the large end of the scale in an hour. All 4 of these compounds, like coca, increase catecholamine hormones (which includes norepinephrine and epinephrine). Many papers talk about this causing thermogenisis and lipolysis, but I was not aware you could see such an immediate increase in urine ketones. I lose no more than 2 grams of "fat" as ketones in the urine ( 100 mg/dL reading times 1 liter urine) so it's not much of a direct fat loss as some say. It would be better if i worked out hard after ingestion these compounds so that the ketones were used for something instead of being wasted. If the body somehow detects the waste of fat energy, it may become unresponsive to the chemicals sooner. In other words, I like the age-old advice of weight-lifters taking stimulants like these before working out because the workout might reduce building up a resistance to the chemicals/hormones. I wouldn't be surprised if using hormones more efficiently as a general principle and not wasting them (like insulin, cortisol, and serotonin) is a good thing. I know that wastefully flooding our bodies with insulin, cortisol, and serotonin is not cool, so I wonder how strong this principle applies to catecholamines (like norepinephrine and epinephrine). Maybe I'll try to precede workouts with just enough of these various chemicals so that ketones in the urine are not raised by the end of the workout. Changing chemicals to prevent resistance would not help anything because they seem to work primarily on catecholamines.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 zawy

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 291 posts
  • 46
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:33 PM

Immediately before a 1.5 hour workout, my ketones were "Large", 80 mg/dL. Immediately after the workout, which included enough water to replace fluids, they were "Trace", 5 mg/dL. About 30 minutes after the workout, thy were "moderate" (40 mg/dL) getting close to "Large" again. This gives me a theory about ketones and I was wondering if someone here already knows about this. My theory is that if the body sees high ketones, it is in a starvation sitatuation but existing muscle is not active enough to use up the ketones to justify its existence. So ketones would be the messenger to determine if muscle should be catabolized. I don't believe that if you supply enough protein in a low calorie diet that it will not catabolize muscle. I think the body is smart enough to know that if muscle is not being used and it is in a food-scarce situation, then it will get rid of the excess muscle, no matter what tricks you use in the fat/carb/protein ratios. So when ketones get high, it's the perfect time to have a hard workout to continue burning fat and get the ketones low so that the body does not start thinking there is too much muscle. But immediately as the workout is ending, there needs to be food (glucose) to stop the fat-burning/ketone-generating process before blood ketones get high again. In this ketone light, early morning workouts followed by a big breakfast make more sense than simply saying "testosterone levels are higher in the morning" and "you need to refill the depleted muscle glycogens".

#4 yoyo

  • Guest
  • 582 posts
  • 21

Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:55 AM

ketones are good for brain function too. good stuff.

#5 bgwithadd

  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:14 AM

Isn't that the basis of the whole atkin's diet? The whole ketosis thing? They are not a marker, though, but the actual process in effect. I don't know why those would cause that, though.

As for workout use, I'd think it's more that you are going to get better performance on stimulants than off. I would not take anything more than caffeine for cardio due to personal experience of how badly that goes, but stimulants will help tremendously with weight workout, but ultimately you will get negative results with serious stimulants because for one thing you can push beyond what your body can do and for the other the muscle spasm stuff really causes problems.

#6 SIRT1

  • Guest
  • 29 posts
  • 16
  • Location: 

Posted 25 November 2014 - 08:54 AM

could be a false positive

 

maybe one of the coca metabolites..



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#7 Metagene

  • Guest
  • 674 posts
  • 78
  • Location:Florida
  • NO

Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:48 PM

Its in the oil.

ALIPHATIC KETONES.

"Of the aliphatic ketones only a few are found in volatile oils. They are mostly methyl ketones which can be isolated by means of their acid sulphite addition products. The lower members are water-soluble and hence are found either in the aqueous distillate or in the first portion of the oil which distils over.

Acetone, CH3COCH8. This ketone has been observed not infrequently during the distillation of volatile oils, more particularly of leaf oils. Presumably it is formed during the process of distillation, but the reaction by which it is produced is not known. It has been found in the Atlas cedar oil, coca leaf oil, clove oil and in the distillate of patchouli leaves."

http://books.google....ved=0CDQQ6AEwBw
  • Informative x 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users