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5-HTP + dopamine?


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#1 Louise101

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:24 PM


I think I have always been depressed. It manifests as a low mood (often) plus a lot of irritability. I've started seeing a naturopath, and explored various things (too many to list here, but I think I've tried most supplements). I have tried to find the root of my problem (thyroid, mercury, etc etc). But I am pretty sure my real problem is something wrong with my serotonin levels. I feel much better (happier, calmer, way less irritable) on SSRIs (but also very tired, lots of cravings and tendency to gain a lot of weight). The main thing is that my father is the exact same way. He's a totally different person on SSRIs (and he has no mercury fillings, has a totally different diet than me). I've tried various antidepressants and really, really want to avoid them if possible.

I want to start using 5-HTP (haven't had much success with St. John's Wort) for the serotonin. However, I've heard you should balance dopamine. I've been taking L-Tyrosine. But should I try a low-dose of Wellbutrin instead? I've used Wellbutrin alone before and it made me cranky.

Edited by Louise101, 05 June 2009 - 05:32 PM.


#2 VespeneGas

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:23 PM

I think I have always been depressed. It manifests as a low mood (often) plus a lot of irritability. I've started seeing a naturopath, and explored various things (too many to list here, but I think I've tried most supplements). I have tried to find the root of my problem (thyroid, mercury, etc etc). But I am pretty sure my real problem is something wrong with my serotonin levels. I feel much better (happier, calmer, way less irritable) on SSRIs (but also very tired, lots of cravings and tendency to gain a lot of weight). The main thing is that my father is the exact same way. He's a totally different person on SSRIs (and he has no mercury fillings, has a totally different diet than me). I've tried various antidepressants and really, really want to avoid them if possible.

I want to start using 5-HTP (haven't had much success with St. John's Wort) for the serotonin. However, I've heard you should balance dopamine. I've been taking L-Tyrosine. But should I try a low-dose of Wellbutrin instead? I've used Wellbutrin alone before and it made me cranky.


5-HTP is a dirty drug, it non-specifically and unpredictably elevates serotonin, so one day you'll feel elated, the next day sort of disconnected and 'off', sometimes it helps with sleep, sometimes it messes with sleep, etc etc. You're circumventing your body's mechanism for regulating serotonin synthesis (i.e. tryptophan hydroxylase) and I don't think it's healthy (not that I have a citation to that effect).

I think your likelihood of success would be much higher using an SSRI that you've already had a lot of success with, augmented with wellbutrin, which should help with the energy issues and any sexual side effects that might crop up with the SSRI (something like 60% of people get them, I hate SSRI's :|o ).

When it comes to neuropharmacology, your doctor might be ignorant, but I'd still take them over a naturopath 8 days a week.

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#3 Chaos Theory

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:45 PM

Is tryptophan a safer option for boosting endogenous serotonin production?

#4 VespeneGas

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:55 PM

Is tryptophan a safer option for boosting endogenous serotonin production?


Unless you have Lyme disease (funk can tell you why, the infection diverts tryptophan metabolism in some effed up way), then I'd say yes.

#5 russianBEAR

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 11:47 AM

Spot on with 5-HTP being unpredictable.

I remember taking like 6-7 capsules of 50mg and they barely did anything.

Then shortly after that, when I thought it must be the tolerance, I took just one capsule after a solid meal and I felt like I was on some MDA or MDMA or something illegal anyways :|o



It goes just gravy with L-Tyrosine regardless though, I used to take these in combination all the time without any additional problems.

#6 kenj

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:06 PM

VespeneGas,

Well, it works for someone ;-): I have used it on/off for ~7 years, - look up any board, discussing interventions for depression, sleep problems etc. and 5-HTP is usually mentioned as a helpful remedy if used properly, - it's been used in clinical settings for decades, and I wouldn't really generalize it as a 'dirty drug', but perhaps an individual neurochemsitry needs a different approach than 5-HTP.
Tho', FWIW in low dose I think it's a nice addition to any supplemental sleep program, and speculating beneficial in the long run for maintaining circadian health. Just don't take with SSRI's.

I see alot 'tryptophan is safer' statements, actually it's the opposite: 5-HTP has great antioxidant activity (tryptophan is sensitive to oxidation), and a low dose (50-100mg) for several days with B vitamins in the evening should elevate brain serotonin safely, IF needed. Suspect low ACh/DA levels, cortisol, blood sugar/insulin problems, low B bitamin levels, ? if 5-HTP messes ya up or 'don't work'.

Edited by kenj, 06 June 2009 - 04:08 PM.


#7 Louise101

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:46 PM

Thanks. So 5-HTP is a dirty drug. I always thought it was better than Tryptophan because it cannot go backwards into something else, but only forwards into serotonin. But I'm not overly schooled on the subject, so who knows. I have been taking 5-HTP for a few weeks with absolutely NO effect that I can see. No good, no bad. I started with 50 and then went to 150 mgs. Nothing. It doesn't even seem to make me tired. So discouraging. I know I'll probably have to go back on an SSRI (likely prozac) but I do not want to. Even augmenting with Wellbutrin (which I tried for a little while) does not stop weight gain. Why oh why must these things cause weight? Serotonin = weight gain?? And if so, then why doesn't 5-HTP also = weight gain? For me it isn't a question of vanity (i.e. 10 lbs). It is life-altering weight gain that I seem to be powerless to stop.

So basically I need to choose sadness/irritability along with energy and being a normal weight. OR being normal (not exactly "happy) and calm along with fat and very tired. Aghhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I'm still in my 30s. Life seems rather bleak.


(I also take or have tried high does inositol, SAM-E, St. John's Wort, higher dose multi-vitmains, fish oil high in DHA, fish oil high in EPA, Effexor, Paxil, Zoloft, etc etc).

#8 Louise101

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:57 PM

Also (sorry) what is ACh/DA levels? I tried googling but didn't figure it out.

#9 kenj

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:15 PM

Louise, sorry you're having a hard time, - could be multiple causes, and while increasing serotonin levels may alleviate dysthymia and/or treatment resistant depression, it doesn't sound like it's the solution for you. Perhaps you have some premature menopause going on, blood tests would tell more.
ACh/DA is short for the neurotransmitters acetylcholine and dopamine.

#10 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 08:22 AM

VespeneGas,

I see alot 'tryptophan is safer' statements, actually it's the opposite: 5-HTP has great antioxidant activity (tryptophan is sensitive to oxidation), and a low dose (50-100mg) for several days with B vitamins in the evening should elevate brain serotonin safely, IF needed. Suspect low ACh/DA levels, cortisol, blood sugar/insulin problems, low B bitamin levels, ? if 5-HTP messes ya up or 'don't work'.


It is generally thought that B6 should be taken as far away as possible from 5-HTP. B6 + a certain enzyme converts 5-HTP to serotonin. If you take them together, much of this can happen before they cross the blood-brain barrier, leaving the serotonin unable to cross. A serotonin build up in the blood can cause damage to the heart and blood valves.

#11 stephen_b

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 05:14 PM

Some things to consider. Cold hands? Low iodine->low thyroid->depression. Low stored iron can also lead to depression/brain fog.

StephenB

#12 panhedonic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:22 AM

It is generally thought that B6 should be taken as far away as possible from 5-HTP. B6 + a certain enzyme converts 5-HTP to serotonin. If you take them together, much of this can happen before they cross the blood-brain barrier, leaving the serotonin unable to cross. A serotonin build up in the blood can cause damage to the heart and blood valves.



I just bought a bottle of 5-HTP from Vitamin Shoppe that comes with B-6. WTF? (50mg 5-htp/10mg B-6)

Under 8 bucks, too.

#13 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:54 AM

They sell them like that sometimes, for some reason I can't fathom. I would avoid it/take it back.

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#14 8bitmore

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:33 AM

Since serotonin is inherently linked to dopamine levels, why not try the Choline/Uridine/Fishoil combination, it seems to do wonders for a lot of people, also in relation to mood. The thread is here: (GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA).

My personal variant is 100mg Uridine 5'Mono Phosphate Disodium (bought mine via ebay but seller I used seems to be on vacation at the moment), 250mg Citicoline and 1000mg Pharma Nord Bio-Fish oil capsule (EPA: 180mg, DHA 120mg).

Hope it all works out for you.

Edited by 8bitmore, 01 June 2012 - 09:44 AM.





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