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Do Antidepressants increase / alter lifespan? Which?


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#1 accurate_atheist

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:13 PM


If you've read some of the excellant works of Dr. Dilman, he clearly explains that increasing hypothalamic neurotransmitters to youthful levels can remove some effects of ageing. AD drugs and many psychedelics have an endocrinal impact. TCAs can increase melatonin synthesis (pineal grafts can even reverse menopause) Serotonin antagonists (Mianserin(Bolvidon), Mirtazapine(Remeron), aglometerine) have already shown to extend lives in worms. Chronic AD's reduce cortisol and this may increase lipespans. Lithium (and valproate and many anti-epileptics) and SSRI's and serotonin1A agonists (2A/2C antagonists) have robust neuroprotective and neurogenic effects, Lithium in particular inspite of a mood darkening "stabilising" effect; some people even take a low-dose Lithium. Of course Selegiline has undoubtable pro-longevity effects Phenytoin and Tianeptine(Stablon) reverse stress injury to the brain. There is no systematic study of AD's in life-extension, yet agents that increase lifespans are often antidepressive. So nature may want us to live "happy" ever after. I've wondered for long that we are overlooking AD's for LE. If you are optimistic do name some antidepressants that you think would lifespans, cite studies and being pragmatic name only AD's used or in trials to be used. Somewhat over-prescribed in cancer too, millions today have been taking ADs (antidepressants) for over a decade now!

#2 accurate_atheist

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:01 PM

Serotonin Antagonists do, Mianserin>Mirtazapine how I don't know. Lithium does, I'll post studies, I've read that SSRIs can decrease lifespan, so I don't know what to believe!

If you've read some of the excellant works of Dr. Dilman, he clearly explains that increasing hypothalamic neurotransmitters to youthful levels can remove some effects of ageing. AD drugs and many psychedelics have an endocrinal impact. TCAs can increase melatonin synthesis (pineal grafts can even reverse menopause) Serotonin antagonists (Mianserin(Bolvidon), Mirtazapine(Remeron), aglometerine) have already shown to extend lives in worms. Chronic AD's reduce cortisol and this may increase lipespans. Lithium (and valproate and many anti-epileptics) and SSRI's and serotonin1A agonists (2A/2C antagonists) have robust neuroprotective and neurogenic effects, Lithium in particular inspite of a mood darkening "stabilising" effect; some people even take a low-dose Lithium. Of course Selegiline has undoubtable pro-longevity effects Phenytoin and Tianeptine(Stablon) reverse stress injury to the brain. There is no systematic study of AD's in life-extension, yet agents that increase lifespans are often antidepressive. So nature may want us to live "happy" ever after. I've wondered for long that we are overlooking AD's for LE. If you are optimistic do name some antidepressants that you think would lifespans, cite studies and being pragmatic name only AD's used or in trials to be used. Somewhat over-prescribed in cancer too, millions today have been taking ADs (antidepressants) for over a decade now!



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#3 mwestbro

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 04:05 PM

I also think that this is an interesting, and largely unexamined, question. This is some evidence that antidepressants might counter brain aging if nothing else, as detailed here and here. There is a good review of SSRIs for Alzheimer's here. All of this seems pretty thin, though, and I'd love to see more work on this issue.

#4 accurate_atheist

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 05:57 PM

Thanks for the papers, so I can predict that chronic antideps specially TCA's like amitriptyline decrease cortisol and may have an impact. The paper on paroxetine says how it corrects behavior and the final article disfavors and says escitalopram actually decreases long term potentiation (LTP) in CA1 neurons of the dorsal hippocampus. So its right saying potential differences among the SSRIs for hippocampal effects. >From what I've read many times catecholamines like noradrenaline(NA) decrease with age and a SNRI duloxetine works well too but not fluoxetine enhances BDNF mRNA expression according to the paper >so I don't know how it will translate for longevity. If you google you'll find that Mianserin (says so in wikipedia now) and Mirtazapine increase lifespan in worms. A study of this is in the URL
http://brainhealthha...your-life-span/
where they say that SSRI's are bad, serotonin antagonists fair better but it's equivocal. A lot of sites have come up this way, this one is not especially good though it's unfair to say I hate negatives just because I'm flesh and blood. However, wiki and a nature publication(+ve for Mianserin(31%) , Lithium(46%), Selegiline(25-40%) which no doubt increases catecholamines(Dr. Knoll's work) is rather trustworthy. Lithium low doses seem to be prophylactic in neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Let's keep it going.

#5 accurate_atheist

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 05:26 PM

A link that opens quickly is this article (summary) http://news.softpedi...-33-71685.shtml
another one favoing serotonin antagonists is this one http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0004062

#6 StrangeAeons

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:19 PM

You have to keep in mind, firstly, that with people who are depressed you run up against the quality vs. quantity of life debate; and likewise that depression in and of itself cuts into longevity in a very meaningful way. On the other side of the "quality vs. quantity" debate, you have to consider the adverse effects of antidepressants in the euthymic.

#7 accurate_atheist

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 08:36 AM

Extend lifespan or not , I think an untreated depression creates a chronic cycle of stress overactive HPA and these will cut down lifespan, leaving suicidal ideation. Two sides of the spectra depression and euthymia, bipolar somewhere in between. Can you tell me how to start a poll??(like say which drug works best for chronic insomnia? and then choices.) or name a drug/drugs (uptp 5) that made you feel younger and others say you look younger?

#8 Psych

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 03:37 PM

What do we know about St. John's Wort, specifically hyperforin?

Edited by Psych, 25 July 2009 - 03:38 PM.


#9 StrangeAeons

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 04:24 PM

Uh... firstly I acknowledge that depression cuts lifespan, even factoring out suicide. I'm not going to claim I know the mechanism, though; that's still very much tentative, and yes the hypothalmic-pituatary-adrenal axis is very likely to play a role in the effects of stress on the body but I don't assert that to be the whole picture.
And secondly, what??? You're all over the place. To start a poll, just click the underlined sentence saying "Click here to manage this topic's poll options" when starting a thread. Only a navigator can do that to an already-started thread, AFAIK.

#10 accurate_atheist

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 05:04 PM

Hyperforin is the active ingridient of St. John's wort. Ever since Mianserin was withdrawn or not stocked I'm taking this stuff. I don't know how lifespan is affected, but stick to it and quality of life is better. I know studies that it inhibits serotonin, noradrenaline , GABA and weakly dopamine uptake. It's a weak inhibitor of both MAO- A and B ,however, since it's weak, this doesn't cause a deadly tyramine interaction, I've rather doctor has put me on Prozac (I have reduced the dosage from 60mg/day to 20mg/day with it Mirtazapine 30mg.) So technically I can't say what hyperforin affects but it's said to be somewhat nootropic. Like other antideps this stuff takes 2-4 weeks to work, atleast if I miss it, there's no withdrawal, that happens on stopping Mirtazapine(Remeron) which causes a bizzare illogical thinking abyss. So I think it's a safe drug, I cannot attribute any side-effect caused specifically to the plant. If you're depressed rather severely then other drugs may have to be used. Theoretically inhibitions of MAO (Monoamine Oxidase) causes increase in hypothalamic neurotransmitters, that's basically good as that declines with age. St. John's wort has some antioxidant effects too. I think my energy has improved, the stuff is also taken by Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) patients. Another thing I've read is that Hyperforin is an agonist of sigma receptors, sigma receptors are related to better moods. There's low dose deprenyl (Selegiline- a MAO-B selective reuptake inhibitor upto 10mg/day) which has major antioxidant antiaging effects. Oh another thing is I have not used recreational drugs while on St. John's wort. I have used ginkgo with it without trouble.

What do we know about St. John's Wort, specifically hyperforin?



#11 accurate_atheist

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 05:38 PM

Okay forget polls, HPA over activation supposedly most occurs in melancholic unipolar depression, bipolar is more complex affecting peaks and troughs.(jury is out) I can copy paste from the biopsychiatry site or google "HPA Axis Dysfunction in Major Depression" or "Neuroendocrine changes in Major depression." In simple words, if one takes Dexamethasone (a corticosteroid) this will inhibit further cortisol secretion from adrenals, by negative feedback inhibition and also ACTH (pituitary) and CRF(hypothalamus). In depression it was observed that "Dexamethasone suppression test" is blunted, that suppression of cortisol secretion is way below normal in response to the exogenous corticosoid adminstration. (I've heard genders and type of depression are inequal) It became known that Prolactin response to Serotonergic(5HT) drugs are blunted in depression, these were mediated through 5HT-1A receptors. Later it was seen that 5HT-2A/2C active drugs also alter hypothalamic release of hormones. Successful treatment of depression normalizes this Dexamethasone Test. Chronic administration of drugs like TCA, and antagonists of 5HT-2 receptors (say Mirtazapine) decrease CRF m-RNA. Cortisol is supposedly a main candidate for stress and aging. Dexamethasone suppression gets less with age, all antideps increase neurotransmitter release and this may increase sensitivity of hormones. Other way corticosteroid/ACTH/CRF antagonists are often antidepressants(AD). The drug Metformin supposedly increases the sensitivity, we already know it's pro-long life. AD's which antagonise 5HT-2C receptors directly inhibity CRF release from the hypothalamus and thus ACTH and cortisol, Mianserin (not available now), Mirtazapine(Remeron) and the appetizer Cyproheptadine (Periactin) are strong 5HT-2C antagonists, suggesting a cause why they extend life in studies. Neuronal control of hormones is also inclusive of Dopamine, GABA, Noradrenaline and many others and is still a future target. I'm no expert either, brains are rather complex.

#12 accurate_atheist

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:58 PM

Thanks I got how to start a poll, I'm gonna start a simple one.

#13 StrangeAeons

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 08:43 PM

For the love of eyesight, accurate_atheist, I implore you learn how to format your posts and try to organize your information in a coherent and succinct manner. You list drugs and receptors like a starlet dropping names in front of a bouncer.
Try to formulate a point in your mind, state it, then substantiate it with technical details. I think there's some intelligence buried in your posts, but it looks more like coprolaila from a kid who was taught ligands instead of swear words. I'm not trying to be mean, it just makes you impossible to understand.

#14 accurate_atheist

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 09:24 AM

I thought members are rather expert here like in LEF forums and everyone's favorire EROWID EXPERIENCES(you're not allowed to reply to an experience report). Thanks I know I'm disorganised. Keep posts professional, don't think of me or my life, think you are searching the wikipedia. I'm not doing this for therapy, I'll answer FAQs like yesterday someone asked me about St. John's wort. So no personal advice please, I don't know you and you don't know me an its a good song that says "And don't criticize what you can't understand." I've realized I have spent years trying to help some people, I quit, I'm gonna shave my head and join a rock'n roll band.

#15 AgeVivo

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 06:24 PM

AccurateAtheist, you asked how to remove a post: use the "Report" button below it

You talk a lot about countering the aging hormonal changes; but i'm not sure this usually extends lifespan. Typically, if the effects of hormonal replacement therapies were clearly extending women's lifespans we would know it well. Same with human growth hormon.

You seem to talk about "pro-longevity" effects of some drugs; namely lithium and those:

Metformin supposedly increases the sensitivity, we already know it's pro-long life. (...) Mirtazapine(Remeron) and the appetizer Cyproheptadine (Periactin) are strong 5HT-2C antagonists, suggesting a cause why they extend life in studies.

are you referring to rodent studies? human studies? Thanks

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#16 tham

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:28 AM

Miansein decreases lifespan.


http://brainhealthha...your-life-span/

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0004062




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