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Cancer Protocols? Especially Lung Cancer


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#1 zawy

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 02:29 AM


I have a friend who was just diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer. Can anyone suggest a clear and concise cancer protocol? In doing searches, I have found only 2, re-posted below. I would add curcumin, broccoli, shiitake, and maybe pomegranate to these ideas. I am scared of the high sugar in pomegranate concentrate (relatively inexpensive). And vitamin C I.V. drip (sodium ascorbate), something like 50 g over 4 hours three times a week from a D.O. (only place i know to get it). N.I.H. is doing trials in humans. See end of this post for more on Vit C I.V. It's possible oral vitamin C in non-acidic forms (sodium, magnesium, calcium) might be very useful since the acidic form causes more gas and diahrea and it's 50% absorption.

It appears as if i may act as the decider and acquirer of supplements and food because there are too many things he and all other cancer patients have to deal with diagnosed with cancer: Family, doctors, inheritance, and job, not to mention your own feelings and mood about being told you are about to die. Who would have time and energy to investigate, acquire, and take a variety of pills that no one knows if they are helpful and mixed in with flood of contradictions and misinformation?

==================================
tham, May 16, 2009
http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=323088

High dose selenium, rather than resveratrol, in the form of
sodium selenite, would have given him a better chance of
survival, which I had urged him to start of with at least
1,000 mcg immediately.


This is the selenite intake of Ray, the prostate cancer guy
I mentioned earlier in Bill's thread, who appears to be at
least in partial remission without chemo, radiation or surgery.


He's taking "Selenium Oral Concentrate", which is not
a supplement meant for humans, but actually used by
farmers for drenching cattle .

1 ml contains 10 mg = 10,000 mcg of selenite.

Typically 20 drops - 1 ml

He took 20 drops initially, but he felt "a bit sick".

He reduced to 15 drops and maintained it.

This would mean he is taking 15/20 x 10,000 = 7,500 mcg !

Factoring his weight in, 300 pounds.

This would be equivalent to 150/300 x 7,500
= 3,750 mcg for a 150 pound man.


And this is for sodium selenite, the most toxic
of the commonly available forms. Even Richard
Passwater, throwing caution to the winds, considers
up to 1,700 mcg of selenite as safe.

This underscores what I've always thought about the
toxicity of selenium being grossly overrated. [ i completely agree and have a book that cites the most "severe" cases of selenium poisoning. ]


The rest of Ray's regimen, worked out by him and
a group of friends with prostate cancer.

Red clover extract, containing 160 mg of isoflavones
"High dose" B complex
Vitamin D3 - 5,000 iu
Vitamin C - 10 grams
Bromelain - 500 mg, or up to 1,500 mg
Zinc - 15 mg

30 apricot pits for laetrile, or vitamin B17.
He grinds this up with his Budwig diet of 3 tablespoons
each of flax seeds and olive oil, plus cottage cheese.

I think he was at a relatively advanced stage, with
bone metastases, which disappeared on the regimen.

==========================
dukenukem
http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=252054

I written this before in ImmInst, but maybe worth posting again:

Here's my recommendation for beating cancer:

o resveratrol (a molecule derived from grapes and other plants)
-- boosts immunity, a primary natural defense versus cancer cells
-- greatly reduces metastasis, the spreading of cancer thru the body
-- silences 100's of gene-controlled mechanisms that lead to cancer cell survival and growth
-- reduces the fermentation within cells that gives them their metabolic energy
-- inhibits angiogenesis, the growth of blood vessels that feed growing tumors
-- totally safe
-- 1 gram daily

o IP-6 (a molecule derived from rice bran, but found in every cell in our body)
-- IP-6 is a highly effective metal binder and deprives cancer/tumor cells of iron and copper, two primary growth requirements
-- 2-4 grams daily

o vitamin D3
-- inhibits metastasis
-- inhibits angiogenesis
-- boosts natural killer cell activity, a particular type of white blood cell that can hunt down and kill free roaming cancer cells in the body, preventing them from spreading
-- 10,000 IU daily

o fish-based omega-3's (EPA & DHA)
-- It's a fact that no existing cancer treatment stops metastasis, yet the spread of cancer to other locations (via matastasis) accounts for over 85% of all cancer mortality. Omega-3's inhibit the adhesion of roaming cancer cells to the wall of small capillaries where most metastatic tumors begin.
-- totally safe
-- 4-6 capsules daily (LEF brand)

o selenium
-- method of action not yet known, but there's significant research showing it helps.
-- 400 mcg daily


Just as important as the supplements, DO NOT eat any dairy products. The protein casein is potentially a pro-cancerous. [ edit by zawy: Whey protein is said in Wikipedia to not contain casein] Also, stay clear of all starches (rice, bread, potato, pasta), and simple sugars. Cancer cells feed off of glucose 50 times more hungrily than normal cells, so do not feed them exactly what they need.

And finally, if there's any chance to live, taking chemo drugs will only make matters worse. If it were me, I'd never use chemotherapy and reduce my chances to live.
================
maxwatt commented: If I had lung cancer I would be taking as much resveratrol as I could tolerate, at least five, up to 10 grams a day. Diarrhea is a problem for some people. I found that taking one dose mid-afternoon eliminated this for me, as did taking a sugar-salt drink on an empty stomach -- 1 cup water, 2 tsp sugar, 1/4 tp salt, do not eat or drink for an hour before or an hour after drinking.

August 2008:
"Vitamin C injections slow tumor growth in mice
High-dose injections of vitamin C, also known as ascorbate or ascorbic acid, reduced tumor weight and growth rate by about 50 percent in mouse models of brain, ovarian, and pancreatic cancers, researchers from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) report in the August 5, 2008, issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers traced ascorbate's anti-cancer effect to the formation of hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular fluid surrounding the tumors. Normal cells were unaffected....

The NIH researchers, however, tested the idea that ascorbate, when injected at high doses, may have prooxidant instead of antioxidant activity. Prooxidants would generate free radicals and the formation of hydrogen peroxide, which, the scientists hypothesized, might kill tumor cells. In their laboratory experiments on 43 cancer and 5 normal cell lines, the researchers discovered that high concentrations of ascorbate had anticancer effects in 75 percent of cancer cell lines tested, while sparing normal cells. In their paper, the researchers also showed that these high ascorbate concentrations could be achieved in people.

The team then tested ascorbate injections in immune-deficient mice with rapidly spreading ovarian, pancreatic, and glioblastoma (brain) tumors. The ascorbate injections reduced tumor growth and weight by 41 to 53 percent. In 30 percent of glioblastoma controls, the cancer had spread to other organs, but the ascorbate-treated animals had no signs of disseminated cancer.
"
Full study:
http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=18678913

Dec 2008 commentary:
Although the effect of vitamin C on tumor growth may be “modest” compared with standard chemotherapy, vitamin C—unlike chemotherapy—has no toxic side effects (4). Chen et al. (3) [the mice] specifically emphasized that ascorbate may have potential as an adjunct to standard chemotherapy by enhancing tumoricidal effects while lessening toxicity toward normal cells. Combining the strengths of several treatment modalities is a proven tactic in fighting cancer.
http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2596229

Commentary on the 3 case reports of 2006:
http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=16567756

How to give vit C I.V. [needs to be checked against how NIH is doing it in their current trials]:
http://www.orthomed.com/civprep.htm

NIH report of 3 cases:

"A 51-year-old woman was found in August 1995 to have a tumour involving her left kidney. At nephrectomy in September 1995 this was shown to be a renal cell carcinoma 9 cm in diameter with thrombus extending into the renal vein. Chest radiography results were normal, and there was no evidence of metastatic disease on CT scan of the chest and abdomen. In March 1996 a CT scan of the chest indicated several new, small, rounded and well-defined soft tissue masses no larger than 5 mm in diameter; they were judged consistent with metastatic cancer. By November 1996 chest radiography revealed multiple cannonball lesions. The patient declined conventional cancer treatment and instead chose to receive high-dose vitamin C administered intravenously at a dosage of 65 g twice per week starting in October 1996 and continuing for 10 months. She also used other alternative therapies: thymus protein extract, N-acetylcysteine, niacinamide and whole thyroid extract (Table 1). In June 1997 chest radiography results were normal except for one remaining abnormality in the left lung field, possibly a pulmonary scar"

http://www.cmaj.ca/c.../full/174/7/937

#2 castrensis

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 05:56 AM

I'm a certified chemotherapy/biotherapy provider so I can provide you with a lot of information about chemotherapy, but have a significant knowledge deficit regarding CAM for cancer. Five year survival for lung cancer despite surgical/pharmaceutical/radiation therapy remains abysmal, ~15%. Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center has an excellent section on their website with information on botanicals & other products for the treatment & prevention of cancer with extensive citations. It's worth mentioning that the only person with lung cancer (SCLC with brain mets, nonetheless!) I have met that survived greater than five years was treated at MSKCC, but I'm ignorant of what protocols he used.

This isn't meant to be considered a treatment suggestion; but if it were me, given the low success rate of traditional interventions I would probably investigate & utilize every alternative modality I could get my hands on, under the supervision of a CAM practitioner & my oncologist.

Some resources that may be helpful in finding information or a CAM practitioner:
National Center for Complementary & Alternative Medicine
Zakim Center for Integrative Therapies
Johns Hopkins Center for Complementary & Alternative Medicine
National Cancer Institute's Office of Cancer Complementary & Alternative Medicine
NCI Physician Data Query
The Richard & Hinda Rosenthal Center for Complementary & Alternative Medicine
M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Complementary/Intergrative Medicine Education Resources

Edited by castrensis, 06 September 2009 - 05:58 AM.


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#3 zawy

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 12:27 PM

I think you should be aware that MSKCC is notorious for being anti-alternative thanks to a financial feedback loop in research/grant money and pharmaceuticals. A former employee of MSKCC wrote a book describing how bad it has been. It's sad to see from the link you provided that they only want to "expose" food-derived treatments as being "toxic" without providing any information that strongly supports about 20 food-derived compounds, and who's research is about 50 times more volumous, and about 5 times better than the negative links they did provide. I see several of your other links are equally ignorant of the research and shamefully closed minded. As someone knowledgeable in chemotherapy, maybe you could discuss why these sources recommend selenite with many types of chemo, showing massive benefit only when the selenite is used, and yet do not recommend selenite by itself on their websites.

Edited by zawy, 06 September 2009 - 12:33 PM.


#4 castrensis

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 12:47 PM

I think you should be aware that MSKCC is notorious for being anti-alternative thanks to a financial feedback loop in research/grant money and pharmaceuticals. A former employee of MSKCC wrote a book describing how bad it has been. It's sad to see from the link you provided that they only want to "expose" food-derived treatments as being "toxic" without providing any information that strongly supports about 20 food-derived compounds, and who's research is about 50 times more volumous, and about 5 times better than the negative links they did provide. I see several of your other links are equally ignorant of the research and shamefully closed minded. As someone knowledgeable in chemotherapy, maybe you could discuss why these sources recommend selenite with many types of chemo, showing massive benefit only when the selenite is used, and yet do not recommend selenite by itself on their websites.


Unfortunately I can shed no light on these inconsistencies & have no knowledge of what you appear to claim is a conspiracy of sorts by the pharmaceutical industry to deprive cancer treatment centers of funding should they investigate/recommend alternative medicine. Additionally, the links I provided are those recommended by the Oncology Nurse Society, of which I am a member. These accusations are troubling at best, criminal at worst. I would have to agree that it hardly seems probable that food-derived treatments could be any more toxic than the platinum & heavy metal compounds used to treat a number of malignancies & a cornerstone of most lung cancer regimens.

However, I would appreciate you providing sources for further investigation that I may correct my knowledge deficit.

#5 zawy

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 02:24 PM

Simply go read the links already provided above, or go to pubmed and learn about "selenite". I recommend you stay away from institutional organizations and concentrate on the research.

#6 ppp

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 03:09 PM

I have a friend who was just diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer. Can anyone suggest a clear and concise cancer protocol?


I would also recommend that you look into modified citrus pectin. It's main activity seems to be in stopping metastases and slowing progression - even in people with advanced malignancies.

Note that there was a paper last year that suggested that curcumin promoted lung tumours in smokers or ex-smokers. This seems to run contrary to most other research on curcumin and lung cancer, but I'd be wrong not to point it out.

As regards the vitamin C, we tried very high doses of liposomal vitamin C when my son was diagnosed last year. Although he coped brilliantly with the side effects of chemo, it didn't seem to do much in the way of halting progression of the disease. IV may give better results, but oral vitamin C is a high risk strategy in my view.

One other thing to recommend is high dose fish oils.

Will you friend be having chemotherapy or radiation?

Edited by ppp, 06 September 2009 - 03:11 PM.


#7 castrensis

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 06:42 PM

Simply go read the links already provided above, or go to pubmed and learn about "selenite". I recommend you stay away from institutional organizations and concentrate on the research.


Perhaps I should have been more specific in my request, as the links you provided are interesting but from what I've been able to determine are studies that have been researched in vitro or on species other than humans. What is the title of the book by the former employee of MSKCC? What was their position & why do they no longer work at MSKCC? Where should one go to learn more about this shady cabal of pharmaceutical companies that are suppressing progress in cancer treatment? This is the internet, after all, and someone must have a website with the pertinent information. I'm sure you understand that there's no dearth of conspiracy theory websites & it's difficult to sift the wheat from the chaff; you could certainly direct me to a resource you think credible.

Given that there are organizations that you believe are under the hegemony of the pharmaceutical companies I'm assuming there are those which are not & provide reputable information on alternative antineoplastic therapies. I've gone back & reviewed some of the links I provided but couldn't find anything suggesting that people shouldn't use food-derived therapies because they are toxic, by & large they only appear to say that although some compounds are promising more research is needed. Also, what specific research? Is there some body conducting this research? If so, where are they located & how may they be contacted?

#8 Johann

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 07:10 PM

Low dose Naltrexone

#9 kismet

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:36 PM

Budwig and laetril is a no go. Well, if you aren't suicidal that is. It's very unfortunate that Tham loves to mix evidence based therapies and scams in his posts. IIRC the IP6 doses are still too low for cancer, I've read that (otherwise ludicrous) doses of 8-12g are recommended for cancer. Since the early pilot trials around 2006 there has been no follow-up on IP6, recently I've written to the authors asking if they know why, but no reply yet...

I'm a certified chemotherapy/biotherapy provider so I can provide you with a lot of information about chemotherapy, but have a significant knowledge deficit regarding CAM for cancer.

To be exact, and because I'm very anal about semantics, we're not, or shouldn't be, talking about CAM. most CAM = SCAM. It's a word that is associated with quackery and the term cannot be salvaged anymore (similar to "anti aging" meaning useless creams and scams). Useless. Dangerous. What we're looking at, if anything, are experimental yet science-based treatments. If you still have a high opinion about CAM I suggest you should read more from ORAC. What we tend to ignore is that "trying everything" can hurt more than help and even terminal cancer patients have something to lose: quality of life, money, time to progression (effectively life expectancy). Everything is not the right thing.

There are only two realistic suggestions that I can credibly make: find a good oncologists and get cryonics.

Edited by kismet, 06 September 2009 - 09:53 PM.


#10 zawy

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 11:12 PM

Sorry castrensis, I need to concentrate on my friend.

I agree vit C at any dose is not likely to be a miracle. Hopefully it's benefit will be additive with the other things. After spending the last 24 hours reading about selenite, it seems to me to be the best documented and hopeful if you already have cancer.

Here is my short protocol emailed to my friend, combining the above with my own opinions on what dosing should be, and including other stuff that as referenced below.
==========
sodium selenite: 4,000 mcg/day
resveratrol: 600 mg 4x/day, or more if tolerable.
vit C: 1 g every 2 hours
vit D: 8,000 IU/day, OK to be 16,000 every two days.
modified citrus pectin
normal doses of: curcumin, quercetin, beta-sitosterol, COQ10, b-complex,
high doses of: green tea pills, max fish oil

food: broccoli top green part, shiitake, massive pumpkin, whey protein, salmon, brazil nuts, no sugar or carbs
I'm torn over pomegranate concentrate ($3 a bottle) because of the sugar.

4 hour I.V. 3 times a week: about 50 g sodium ascorbate in appropriate solution (containing magnesium chloride?) and include Alpha-lipoic acid and "low dose naltrexone" as described in this "cure" for pancreatic cancer (full article online for $32):
"The Long-term Survival of a Patient With Pancreatic Cancer With Metastases to the Liver After Treatment With the Intravenous {alpha}-Lipoic Acid/Low-Dose Naltrexone Protocol"
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16484716
==============
The text below is written by the Linus Pauling Institute ("disowned" and sued by Linus Pauling before his death) which appears to be well balance and wide-ranging in its research. It's like LEF without the overwhelming detail and profit motive. I keep a text file of all their papers and do a text search every time someone comes to me with a problem or nutrient. The following are all hits on "lung cancer". Their papers are often several years old, but it's a good starting point. They completely glossed over selenium and cancer, but provided an excellent link for more info. Maybe later I'll post all my summaries and links to selenium and cancer.

beta-sitosterol:
"A series of case-control studies in Uruguay found that dietary phytosterol intakes were lower in people diagnosed with stomach, lung, or breast cancer than in cancer-free control groups (68-70). Case-control studies in the U.S. found that women diagnosed with breast or endometrial (uterine) cancer had lower dietary phytosterol intakes than women who did not have cancer (71, 72). "

Apples (flavonoids):
"Two prospective cohort studies in Finland, where average flavonoid intakes are relatively low, found that men with the highest dietary intakes of flavonols and flavones had a significantly lower risk of developing lung cancer than those with the lowest intakes (44, 45). When individual dietary flavonoids were analyzed, dietary quercetin intake, mainly from apples, was inversely associated with the risk of lung cancer;"

broccoli,
Naturally occurring isothiocyanates and their metabolites have been found to inhibit the development of chemically-induced cancers of the lung, liver, esophagus, stomach, small intestine, colon and mammary gland (breast) in a variety of animal models (3, 12). Although epidemiological studies provide some evidence that higher intakes of cruciferous vegetables are associated with decreased cancer risk in humans (31), it is difficult to determine whether such protective effects are related to isothiocyanates or other factors associated with cruciferous vegetable consumption (see Cruciferous Vegetables). Case-control studies using this technique found that dietary isothiocyanate intakes were significantly lower in Chinese women (33) and US men (34) diagnosed with lung cancer than in cancer-free control groups. ...In support of this idea, several epidemiological studies found that inverse associations between isothiocyanate intake from cruciferous vegetables and the risk of lung cancer (33, 34, 36, 39) or colon cancer (40-42) were more pronounced in GSTM1-null or GSTT1-null individuals. These findings suggest a protective role for isothiocyanates that may be enhanced in individuals who eliminate them from the body more slowly...Cruciferous vegetables, such as bok choi, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, horseradish, kale, kohlrabi, mustard, radish, rutabaga, turnip and watercress, are rich sources of glucosinolate precursors to isothiocyanates (43).

Folate:
Observational studies have found diminished folate status to be associated with cancers of the cervix, colon and rectum, lung, esophagus, brain, pancreas, and breast.

niacin:
Additionally, cellular depletion of NAD has been found to decrease levels of the tumor suppressor protein, p53, in human breast, skin, and lung cells (10). Neither the cellular NAD content nor the dietary intake of NAD precursors (niacin and tryptophan) necessary for optimizing protective responses following DNA damage has been determined, but both are likely to be higher than that required for the prevention of pellagra. Niacin deficiency was found to decrease bone marrow NAD and poly-ADP-ribose levels and increase the risk of chemically induced leukemia (12). Moreover, one study reported that niacin supplementation decreased the risk of ultraviolet light-induced skin cancers in mice (13). However, little is known regarding cellular NAD levels and the prevention of DNA damage or cancer in humans. One study in two healthy individuals involved elevating NAD levels in blood lymphocytes by supplementation with 100 mg/day nicotinic acid/day for eight weeks. Compared to non-supplemented individuals, the supplemented individuals had reduced DNA strand breaks in lymphocytes exposed to free radicals in a test tube assay (14). More recently, nicotinic acid supplementation of up to 100 mg/day in 21 healthy smokers failed to provide any evidence of a decrease in cigarette smoke-induced genetic damage in blood lymphocytes compared to placebo (15).

Vit C example:
A number of case-control studies have investigated the role of vitamin C in cancer prevention. Most have shown that higher intakes of vitamin C are associated with decreased incidence of cancers of the mouth, throat and vocal chords, esophagus, stomach, colon-rectum, and lung. ... A prospective study of 870 men over a period of 25 years found that those who consumed more than 83 mg of vitamin C daily had a striking 64% reduction in lung cancer compared with those who consumed less than 63 mg per day (18).

Vit D:
Many malignant tumors have been found to contain vitamin D receptors (VDR), including breast, lung, skin (melanoma), colon, and bone. Biologically active forms of vitamin D, such as 1,25(OH)2D and its analogs, have been found to induce cell differentiation and/or inhibit proliferation of a number of cancerous and noncancerous cell types maintained in cell culture (58). Results of some, but not all, human epidemiological studies suggest that vitamin D may protect against various cancers.

selenium:
A case-control study within a prospective study of over 9,000 Finnish men and women examined serum selenium levels in 95 individuals subsequently diagnosed with lung cancer and 190 matched controls (27). Lower serum selenium levels were associated with an increased risk of lung cancer, and the association was more pronounced in smokers. In this Finnish population, selenium levels were only about 60% of the level commonly observed in other western countries. Results of a recent meta-analysis of 16 studies suggest that selenium may protect against lung cancer. In this analysis, a significant lower risk (54% reduction) of lung cancer was associated with selenium status when studies assessing selenium exposure by toenail selenium content were pooled. A nonsignificant decrease (20% reduction) in lung cancer risk was found when studies assessing selenium status by serum levels were collectively analyzed (28).

COq10:
Interest in coenzyme Q10 as a potential therapeutic agent in cancer was stimulated by an observational study that found that individuals with lung, pancreas, and especially breast cancer were more likely to have low plasma coenzyme Q10 levels than healthy controls (72).

green tea:
Green and black tea have been found to have cancer preventive activity in a variety of animal models of cancer, including cancer of the skin, lung, mouth, esophagus, stomach, colon, pancreas, bladder and prostate (26, 27). In most cases, flavonoids appear to contribute substantially to the cancer preventing effects of tea, but caffeine has also been found to have cancer preventing activity in some animal models of skin (28), lung (29), and colon (30) cancer. Although beneficial effects of tea flavonoids were often attributed to their antioxidant activity, the overall contribution of tea flavonoids to plasma and tissue antioxidant activity in humans is now thought to be relatively minor (31). Currently, scientists are focusing their attention on the potential for tea flavonoids to modulate cell-signaling pathways that promote the transformation of healthy cells to cancerous cells (32, 33).

misc:
"Dietary intakes of total carotenoids, lycopene, beta-cryptoxanthin, lutein, and zeaxanthin were associated with significant reductions in lung cancer in a 14-year study of more than 27,000 Finnish male smokers"

Edited by zawy, 06 September 2009 - 11:15 PM.


#11 castrensis

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:18 AM

I'm a certified chemotherapy/biotherapy provider so I can provide you with a lot of information about chemotherapy, but have a significant knowledge deficit regarding CAM for cancer.

To be exact, and because I'm very anal about semantics, we're not, or shouldn't be, talking about CAM. most CAM = SCAM. It's a word that is associated with quackery and the term cannot be salvaged anymore (similar to "anti aging" meaning useless creams and scams). Useless. Dangerous. What we're looking at, if anything, are experimental yet science-based treatments. If you still have a high opinion about CAM I suggest you should read more from ORAC. What we tend to ignore is that "trying everything" can hurt more than help and even terminal cancer patients have something to lose: quality of life, money, time to progression (effectively life expectancy). Everything is not the right thing.


I'll concede to this. Although I've never had someone object to the use of the phrase, I've probably become conditioned to refer to any treatment that isn't included in the FDA approved arsenal as CAM.

Sorry castrensis, I need to concentrate on my friend.


Of course. Seems I've unintentionally hijacked your thread.

Over & out.

Edited by castrensis, 07 September 2009 - 02:28 AM.


#12 ppp

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 08:19 AM

Sorry castrensis, I need to concentrate on my friend.

I agree vit C at any dose is not likely to be a miracle. Hopefully it's benefit will be additive with the other things. After spending the last 24 hours reading about selenite, it seems to me to be the best documented and hopeful if you already have cancer.

Here is my short protocol emailed to my friend, combining the above with my own opinions on what dosing should be, and including other stuff that as referenced below.
==========
sodium selenite: 4,000 mcg/day
resveratrol: 600 mg 4x/day, or more if tolerable.
vit C: 1 g every 2 hours
vit D: 8,000 IU/day, OK to be 16,000 every two days.
modified citrus pectin
normal doses of: curcumin, quercetin, beta-sitosterol, COQ10, b-complex,
high doses of: green tea pills, max fish oil

food: broccoli top green part, shiitake, massive pumpkin, whey protein, salmon, brazil nuts, no sugar or carbs
I'm torn over pomegranate concentrate ($3 a bottle) because of the sugar.

4 hour I.V. 3 times a week: about 50 g sodium ascorbate in appropriate solution (containing magnesium chloride?) and include Alpha-lipoic acid and "low dose naltrexone" as described in this "cure" for pancreatic cancer (full article online for $32):
"The Long-term Survival of a Patient With Pancreatic Cancer With Metastases to the Liver After Treatment With the Intravenous {alpha}-Lipoic Acid/Low-Dose Naltrexone Protocol"
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16484716
==============
The text below is written by the Linus Pauling Institute ("disowned" and sued by Linus Pauling before his death) which appears to be well balance and wide-ranging in its research. It's like LEF without the overwhelming detail and profit motive. I keep a text file of all their papers and do a text search every time someone comes to me with a problem or nutrient. The following are all hits on "lung cancer". Their papers are often several years old, but it's a good starting point. They completely glossed over selenium and cancer, but provided an excellent link for more info. Maybe later I'll post all my summaries and links to selenium and cancer.

beta-sitosterol:
"A series of case-control studies in Uruguay found that dietary phytosterol intakes were lower in people diagnosed with stomach, lung, or breast cancer than in cancer-free control groups (68-70). Case-control studies in the U.S. found that women diagnosed with breast or endometrial (uterine) cancer had lower dietary phytosterol intakes than women who did not have cancer (71, 72). "

Apples (flavonoids):
"Two prospective cohort studies in Finland, where average flavonoid intakes are relatively low, found that men with the highest dietary intakes of flavonols and flavones had a significantly lower risk of developing lung cancer than those with the lowest intakes (44, 45). When individual dietary flavonoids were analyzed, dietary quercetin intake, mainly from apples, was inversely associated with the risk of lung cancer;"

broccoli,
Naturally occurring isothiocyanates and their metabolites have been found to inhibit the development of chemically-induced cancers of the lung, liver, esophagus, stomach, small intestine, colon and mammary gland (breast) in a variety of animal models (3, 12). Although epidemiological studies provide some evidence that higher intakes of cruciferous vegetables are associated with decreased cancer risk in humans (31), it is difficult to determine whether such protective effects are related to isothiocyanates or other factors associated with cruciferous vegetable consumption (see Cruciferous Vegetables). Case-control studies using this technique found that dietary isothiocyanate intakes were significantly lower in Chinese women (33) and US men (34) diagnosed with lung cancer than in cancer-free control groups. ...In support of this idea, several epidemiological studies found that inverse associations between isothiocyanate intake from cruciferous vegetables and the risk of lung cancer (33, 34, 36, 39) or colon cancer (40-42) were more pronounced in GSTM1-null or GSTT1-null individuals. These findings suggest a protective role for isothiocyanates that may be enhanced in individuals who eliminate them from the body more slowly...Cruciferous vegetables, such as bok choi, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, horseradish, kale, kohlrabi, mustard, radish, rutabaga, turnip and watercress, are rich sources of glucosinolate precursors to isothiocyanates (43).

Folate:
Observational studies have found diminished folate status to be associated with cancers of the cervix, colon and rectum, lung, esophagus, brain, pancreas, and breast.

niacin:
Additionally, cellular depletion of NAD has been found to decrease levels of the tumor suppressor protein, p53, in human breast, skin, and lung cells (10). Neither the cellular NAD content nor the dietary intake of NAD precursors (niacin and tryptophan) necessary for optimizing protective responses following DNA damage has been determined, but both are likely to be higher than that required for the prevention of pellagra. Niacin deficiency was found to decrease bone marrow NAD and poly-ADP-ribose levels and increase the risk of chemically induced leukemia (12). Moreover, one study reported that niacin supplementation decreased the risk of ultraviolet light-induced skin cancers in mice (13). However, little is known regarding cellular NAD levels and the prevention of DNA damage or cancer in humans. One study in two healthy individuals involved elevating NAD levels in blood lymphocytes by supplementation with 100 mg/day nicotinic acid/day for eight weeks. Compared to non-supplemented individuals, the supplemented individuals had reduced DNA strand breaks in lymphocytes exposed to free radicals in a test tube assay (14). More recently, nicotinic acid supplementation of up to 100 mg/day in 21 healthy smokers failed to provide any evidence of a decrease in cigarette smoke-induced genetic damage in blood lymphocytes compared to placebo (15).

Vit C example:
A number of case-control studies have investigated the role of vitamin C in cancer prevention. Most have shown that higher intakes of vitamin C are associated with decreased incidence of cancers of the mouth, throat and vocal chords, esophagus, stomach, colon-rectum, and lung. ... A prospective study of 870 men over a period of 25 years found that those who consumed more than 83 mg of vitamin C daily had a striking 64% reduction in lung cancer compared with those who consumed less than 63 mg per day (18).

Vit D:
Many malignant tumors have been found to contain vitamin D receptors (VDR), including breast, lung, skin (melanoma), colon, and bone. Biologically active forms of vitamin D, such as 1,25(OH)2D and its analogs, have been found to induce cell differentiation and/or inhibit proliferation of a number of cancerous and noncancerous cell types maintained in cell culture (58). Results of some, but not all, human epidemiological studies suggest that vitamin D may protect against various cancers.

selenium:
A case-control study within a prospective study of over 9,000 Finnish men and women examined serum selenium levels in 95 individuals subsequently diagnosed with lung cancer and 190 matched controls (27). Lower serum selenium levels were associated with an increased risk of lung cancer, and the association was more pronounced in smokers. In this Finnish population, selenium levels were only about 60% of the level commonly observed in other western countries. Results of a recent meta-analysis of 16 studies suggest that selenium may protect against lung cancer. In this analysis, a significant lower risk (54% reduction) of lung cancer was associated with selenium status when studies assessing selenium exposure by toenail selenium content were pooled. A nonsignificant decrease (20% reduction) in lung cancer risk was found when studies assessing selenium status by serum levels were collectively analyzed (28).

COq10:
Interest in coenzyme Q10 as a potential therapeutic agent in cancer was stimulated by an observational study that found that individuals with lung, pancreas, and especially breast cancer were more likely to have low plasma coenzyme Q10 levels than healthy controls (72).

green tea:
Green and black tea have been found to have cancer preventive activity in a variety of animal models of cancer, including cancer of the skin, lung, mouth, esophagus, stomach, colon, pancreas, bladder and prostate (26, 27). In most cases, flavonoids appear to contribute substantially to the cancer preventing effects of tea, but caffeine has also been found to have cancer preventing activity in some animal models of skin (28), lung (29), and colon (30) cancer. Although beneficial effects of tea flavonoids were often attributed to their antioxidant activity, the overall contribution of tea flavonoids to plasma and tissue antioxidant activity in humans is now thought to be relatively minor (31). Currently, scientists are focusing their attention on the potential for tea flavonoids to modulate cell-signaling pathways that promote the transformation of healthy cells to cancerous cells (32, 33).

misc:
"Dietary intakes of total carotenoids, lycopene, beta-cryptoxanthin, lutein, and zeaxanthin were associated with significant reductions in lung cancer in a 14-year study of more than 27,000 Finnish male smokers"


I'd urge caution on the vitamin c. Cancer treatment and prevention are not the same thing. Vitamin c can exert cytotoxic effects when it acts as a pro-oxidant, but that only happens at massive doses, far larger than what you have proposed. At anti-oxidant doses it helps cells cope with reactive oxygen species, and tumours have high levels of ROS. What you risk doing is helping the tumour cells survive. Steve Hickey, who advocates a vitamin C-based anti-cancer protocol, suggests massive oral doses of 6g several times a day, and even then only with redox cycling supplements that boost the pro-oxidant effect of the ascorbate.

If you do want to propose vitamin C, then look at the combination of Vitamin C and vitamin K3. The research is there, including at least one phaseI/II study in prostate cancer. You can buy a combined C:K3 supplement called Prosstay.

I would also urge caution on Folate supplementation. Folic acid is used in cell division, which tumours depend on. Interefering with folate metabolism is an established anti-cancer therapy used by chemotherapy drugs like methotrexate and is also part of the cytotoxic effect of EGCG.

Edited by ppp, 07 September 2009 - 08:21 AM.


#13 maxwatt

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:27 PM

Cyclopamine inhibits the hedgehog pathway, which is necessary for cell division, and is always active in cancers that are metastasizing. "hedgehog" who frequently contributed to this forum did much of the research on this substance, which has some promise as a therapy for cancer. He suggested another substance, zerumbone, a polyphenol from a species of ginger, which is also a hedgehog inhibitor, but further downstream (I think on the Wnt pathway) so should have fewer undesirable effects. It is not yet studied in vivo in humans, but there are ongoing studies at the Anderson Institute at the University of Texas, and in canines at the Gazies Institute (Medical University of South Carolina). You can PM or email me if you are intersted in more information.

We are getting far-afield from resveratrol, however. I can move this thread to supplements or bioscience if it continues.

#14 ppp

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:40 PM

...He suggested another substance, zerumbone, a polyphenol from a species of ginger, which is also a hedgehog inhibitor, but further downstream (I think on the Wnt pathway) so should have fewer undesirable effects.


Interesting in that there's a new paper been published which shows that curcumin also acts on the Wnt pathway (though unfortunately I've yet to get access to the paper).

We are getting far-afield from resveratrol, however. I can move this thread to supplements or bioscience if it continues.


Agreed. A move to the supplements forum makes sense given the range of agents being discussed.

#15 DeadMeat

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 03:23 PM

You could also consider methyl jasmonate inhaled with a vicks personal steam inhaler. http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2008/10/methyl-jasmonate-is-stand-alone
http://grouppekurosa...and-lung-cancer
http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2008/10/methyl-jasmonate-stage-four-lung-cancer
http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2008/11/medical-administration-of-anti-cancer
http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2009/03/methyl-jasmonate-and-lung-cancer-1
http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2009/03/methyl-jasmonate-cancer-and-leukemia
http://grouppekurosawa.blogspot.com/2009/04/enhancing-effectiveness-of-methyl

But only sodium selenite and high dosed L-glutamine and a couple of other things are allowed with this. So no antioxidants that in the reachable concentrations, act also as antioxidants in tumor cells. And probably no curcumin or resveratrol etc. just to be safe.

Grouppekurosawa is unfortunately no longer available as supplier, but there are some other suppliers.
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25810

#16 kismet

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 04:19 PM

I would also urge caution on Folate supplementation. Folic acid is used in cell division, which tumours depend on. Interefering with folate metabolism is an established anti-cancer therapy used by chemotherapy drugs like methotrexate and is also part of the cytotoxic effect of EGCG.

Yeah, that's the danger of doctoring on yourself, or worse, on someone else. I really, really hope you are waiting for approval from a doctor before doing anything. The evidence for the preventative effects of folate is specious at best, but the evidence for a treatment effect is probably non-existent and you can expect to do harm.

Edited by kismet, 07 September 2009 - 04:19 PM.


#17 ppp

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:54 PM

Thought this might be of interest too:

Antitumor activity of noscapine in human non-small cell lung cancer xenograft model.
Jackson T, Chougule MB, Ichite N, Patlolla RR, Singh M.

College of Pharmacy, Florida A&M University, Tallahassee, FL, 32307, USA.

PURPOSE: An antitussive plant alkaloid, Noscapine HCl (Nos) displays anticancer activity and has a safe pharmacological profile in humans. The current study was aimed to investigate the in vitro and in vivo anti tumor activity of Nos to determine possible mechanisms of anti tumor activity for treatment of non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC). METHODS: In vitro cytotoxicity of Nos was studied in H460 cells treated with different doses of Nos (10-160 microM) for 72 h and cell viability was determined using crystal violet assay. Apoptosis in H460 cells was evaluated by TUNEL assay after treatment of cells for 72 h with 30 and 40 microM doses of Nos. For in vivo studies, female athymic Nu/nu mice were xenografted with H460 tumors and on day 4 onwards Nos was administered orally at dose of 300, 450 and 550 mg/kg/day for 24 days. As a control, xenografted tumors were separately treated with Docetaxel (10 mg/kg i.v. bolus on day 5, 11, 17, 23). The tumor volumes were measured every five days. Expression of PARP, Bcl(2, )Bax, and caspase-3 families of proteins was measured by Western Blotting (WB), while TUNEL and Immunohistochemical methods were utilized to determine DNA fragmentation and cleaved caspase-3 levels respectively. RESULTS: Nos inhibited growth of H460 cells with the IC50 values of 34.7 +/- 2.5 microM. Nos at 30 and 40 microM doses caused apoptosis as evidenced by nuclear condensation in treated H460 cells. Nos caused 49, 65 and 86% reduction in the xenografted tumor volumes at a dose of 300 (P < 0.05), 450 (P < 0.01), 550 mg/kg/day (P < 0.01), respectively, when compared to controls. Nos-dependent suppression of xenografted tumor growth involved up regulation of PARP, Bax, caspase-3 and repression of Bcl(2) expression. An increase in Bax/Bcl(2) ratio suggests involvement of a mitochondrial mediated apoptotic processes. Our studies revealed a non significant (P > 0.05) increase in Bax/Bcl(2) ratio with Nos at a dose of 300 mg/kg/day, while a significant (P < 0.001) increase in Bax/Bcl(2) ratio was observed with Nos doses of 450 and 550 mg/kg/day. Further, Nos caused elevated apoptosis in tumor xenografts as evidenced by enhanced expression of caspase-3 and positive TUNEL staining in regressed tumor tissues, thus suggesting induction of apoptosis by mitochondrial pathway. CONCLUSION: Our studies suggest that potent antitumor activity of Nos against NSCLC cells. Oral administration of Nos showed significant reduction in tumor volume in human non-small cell lung tumor xenograft in nude mice in a dose dependant manner. Thus, Nos is a promising novel chemotherapeutic agent for the treatment of human lung cancer.

PMID: 18338172 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Does anyone know where you can buy noscapine?

#18 zawy

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:00 PM

I really, really hope you are waiting for approval from a doctor before doing anything.

I don't know how things are in Vienna, but here in Alabama, U.S.A. about 3/4 of the cancer doctors are clueless about everything in this thread. He will have to say "resveratrol" very slowly so that his doctor can write it down in order to do an internet search later, probably choosing the wikipedia resveratrol page that I spent a lot of time editing. Your comments are normal for Americans over the age of 65, the most uneducated classes, and from those who work in the medical field where total trust in the medical professional is emphasized and directly related to income potential. Do you work in the medical field?

Edited by zawy, 08 September 2009 - 01:31 PM.


#19 zawy

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:46 PM

Nascopine is said to be in some cough suppressants. 25-50 mg/day 3 times a day seemed to be a dose for coughs. The web site below may not be trustworthy, but it can give ideas to sources. Vicks appears to not use it. Luckily, I'm going to Peru where everything is OTC. Yes, he'll give his doctor a list of all he's taking.

http://goldpharma.co...mp;lang=ENGLISH

Oral Vitamin C helps a person feel better. There's also reason to believe a lung condition that causes too much oxidation is the root cause and vit C should help that underlying problem. As far as dimishing the body's ability to kill cancer cells, the old Pauling/Cameron study (subsequently made into a book so I have data on the specific lung cancer patients) the average lifespan without chemo increases nearly a factor of 4 in patients taking 10 g/d vitamin C. In most people it seemed to not have much of an effect, but in a few it could almost be classified as a "cure" bringing up the average to 400% increase in lifespan. A good guess would be that they were chronically low in vit C to begin with. The I.V. vitamin C (pro-oxidant) might be good if it's concurrent with chemo, but not oral (anti-oxidant). I have yet to see anything that oral in absence of chemo would decrease lifespan. As long as it's not all acidic form and not causing diahrea, I see no harm from helping prevent cellular matrix deterioration and metastasis, even if internal to the tumor it is slightly positive.

The alpha-Lipoic Acid/Low-Dose Naltrexone seems less promising if based only on the work of Berkson. I'm not sure of the journal he and his relative and employee(?) published in (2006 and 2007). His long history and credentials on his web site look good. His web site appearance and not mentioning cancer along with his 1998 book not giving any dose information is ugly and unpromising even if due to justifiable fear of the government and state medical community shutting his business and license down.

I'm removing curcumin because after more research it looks unpromising. Even if bioavailability is worked out there were 2 papers, 1 of which was good, that indicated it could promote some cancers. It will be a complex yet hopeful topic for a long time. Like resveratrol, it's in the glucuronated(sp) form in the human body which no studies seem interested in studying although that form for quercetin turned out to be the active form. Some drugs are delivered in that water-soluble form. Green tea also removed until after surgery, if it occurs.

I'm still investigating natural sSelenium and selenite. Current plan seems good based on research into full text articles and emails to 2 researchers. The express unhappiness that an NIH trial is using the common supplement form which is known to not hardly be active if the cancer is already present. Selenite form does not need p53 pathway to create cell-killing oxidation which the other forms need. Something like 60% of cancers deactivate p53 for this purpose? It may also make selenite more like chemo (not able to distinguish healthy cells)...even hair falls out if doses are high enough.

Edited by zawy, 08 September 2009 - 04:49 PM.


#20 Johann

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:01 PM

Can a High Fat Diet Beat Cancer? -- from Time Magazine

Edited by Johann, 08 September 2009 - 05:01 PM.


#21 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:00 PM

Zawy's Quote:

I'm removing curcumin because after more research it looks unpromising. Even if bioavailability is worked out there were 2 papers, 1 of which was good, that indicated it could promote some cancers. It will be a complex yet hopeful topic for a long time.


Hi Zawy,

I was considering making a Curcumin formulation in the near future to help with absorption, but I would like to read about the research you mentioned above. Do you happen to have a link or name of the study?

thanks
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 08 September 2009 - 06:01 PM.


#22 nameless

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 08:03 PM

I'm hesitant to recommend anything, as I haven't studied cancer treatments. But you may want to research AHCC (mushroom extract). It's used in a lot of Japanese hospitals and there have been a number of cancer/immune studies.

http://ahccresearch.com


It could maybe at least help with treatment side effects.

#23 ppp

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 08:09 PM

Nascopine is said to be in some cough suppressants. 25-50 mg/day 3 times a day seemed to be a dose for coughs. The web site below may not be trustworthy, but it can give ideas to sources. Vicks appears to not use it. Luckily, I'm going to Peru where everything is OTC. Yes, he'll give his doctor a list of all he's taking.


For noscapine anti-cancer treatments the dose is up in the 3g per day range, (in 3 doses).

Edited by ppp, 08 September 2009 - 08:10 PM.


#24 zawy

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:31 PM

This post says a little more about curcumin and shiitake/insoluble beta-glucans/Lentinan. To my cancer supplement list I am addiing yeast as the primary source of protien for B-vitamins and insoluble beta-glucans. Also seaweed for low calorie beta glucans. And shiitake extract 10 g/day and whole shiitake. The are numerous possibilities for food-derived compounds to have huge changes in cancer outcome. Our government has failed us since all of the most promising things can be traced back to 1970s and yet the research is poor and slow compared to the need. There needs to be a good supplement protocol for cancer and no cancer patient should have to figure it out on their own after being diagnosed. LEF seems behind the times and distracted with less viable ideas.

Anthony, the abstracts on it seemed to be divided into two categories: those that say it's not bioavailable and those that say it works in test tube. This is not proof that the glucuranted (sp) forms do not work and are biologically available. But one study said it's excreted quickly, so even that form might be useless. The final straw was the complexity of the situation, even if you can get it in the blood and absorbed into cells as stated in the following conclusion in a paid-for paper. Since pure-curcumin in the blood is not what we normally get, it can not be assumed to be safe like food. So if peperine or other compounds get past the bioavailability, it's still an iffy and complex situation.

"Curcumin is a natural compound that is a major constituent
of the spice turmeric. Its reported chemopreventive effect on
chemical carcinogen-induced colon tumors in rats raised the
possibility that it might be a candidate for clinical use as a
cancer chemopreventive agent in humans (reviewed in ref. 25).
However, caution should be exercised in using curcumin as a
cancer chemopreventive agent. It has been shown that NQO1
inactivation by a polymorphic mutation in the NQO1 gene in
humans (reviewed in ref. 15) that does not stabilize WT p53
(21), or by knocking out the NQO1 gene in mice (47), is
associated with an increased risk of developing cancer. Thus,
curcumin-induced WT p53 degradation by inhibiting the activity
of NQO1 and dissociating its interaction with p53 could
also increase the risk of developing cancer. Studies with
curcumin, given to rats and mice and to humans in phase I
trials, have shown an increased risk of developing hyperplasia
in the colon in rats, thyroid hyperplasia and liver adenoma in
mice, and progression of premalignant disease in some patients
(reviewed in ref. 29). Our finding that curcumin induces
degradation of the tumor suppressor WT p53 also indicates
that curcumin treatment in healthy people might lead to
accumulation of DNA-damaged cells by inhibiting their p53-
induced apoptosis."
http://www.pnas.org/...5/5535.abstract

Look into Lentinan instead. I was not able to find a trusted source on the internet. Below is my email to my friend about this. It would be good if someone could find out about Lentinan bioavailability in humans.

The beta-glucans are why shiitake is important. A mouse study used the equivalent of 2 g/day extract (4 pills/day) to cause 6 different human colon cancers in mice be 1/2 the size of the controls. Assuming 20 g mice and using 3 mg*(70,000g/20g)^0.75 Using the specific beta glucan (Lentinan), they were almost not visible (controls had 2.2 g tumors while Lentinan had 0.12 g). So larger dose makes larger difference. Lentinan was not at my vitamin websites and i would be suspicious of random sources. Japanese source would be good. It will cost $15 a month to take 8 pills/day which is the minimum i would do, plus eating whole mushrooms.

Colon cancer in the G.I. will be more exposed to the Lentinan than lung cancer. Likewise, bladder cancer is most responsive to vitamin C. Dose make the difference, so remember high-nutritive content foods. Also, all these pills are food without calories, not drugs. So there should be no concern about how many "pills" per day. Most of them can be opened and poured into a shake without harming the taste too much.

mice and shiitake: (unlike many studies, this is excellent work)
http://www.google.co...a83zSJhMmoCXBdg

#25 maxwatt

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 02:14 PM

I've moved this topic to Medicine & Diseases under Bioscience from resveratrol, as it deals only peripherally with resveratrol.

#26 tham

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:37 PM

I managed to find my old SCLC thread.

http://www.imminst.o...o...l=ppar&st=0


In particular, you could try a combination of the Chinese herbs,
Oldenlandia diffusa and Lindera Strychnifolia.

http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=311570


You can order them from Kalyx.com or Shamanshop.com, or buy
them at any Chinese herbal store.

Their Chinese names, in case you drop in at a Chinese herbal shop.

Oldenlandia - 白花蛇舌草 ( Bak Fah Sheh Lei Cho)

Lindera - 烏藥 (Wu Yao)


Or else you could follow Dr Shen's regimen for lung cancer here.
The usual way of preparing a serving of traditional Chinese medicine
is to place the raw herbs by weight in a pot, fill in with 4 bowls
(standard rice bowl) of water, then boil for a few hours until the
concoction is reduced to 1 bowl.

The counter staff at any Chinese herbal shop would also be
well placed to advise you on the preparation.

http://www.drshen.co...htm#cancerherbs

The following dosages followed his old link, but it appears he has
revised the regimen to show percentages instead.

Scutellaria (scullcap species) - 120 grams
Taraxacum (dandelion) - 30 grams
Ophiopogonis - 30 grams
Oldenlandia - 60 grams


I am uncertain as to which Scutellaria species he means, as
both have activity against NSCLC, but I think it is the first one.

Scutellaria barbata (scute or barbat scullcap)
Scutellaria baicalensis (baikal scullcap)

Both are very common in TCM, with the baicalensis species
being one of the 50 fundamental herbs.


Scutellaria barbata - 半枝蓮 (Ban Zhi Lian)

Scutellaria baicalensis - 黄芩 (Huang Qin)


Dandelion - 蒲公英 (Pu Gong Ying)

Ophiopogon - 麥門冬 (Mai Men Dong)


http://www.imminst.o...mp;#entry272952

Edited by tham, 10 September 2009 - 06:47 PM.


#27 zawy

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 11:19 AM

Tham, you had said resveratrol might be risky in cancer. Can you tell me more about that?

#28 zawy

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:03 PM

We went to the thoracic surgeon yesterday. The surgeon is "world famous" doing 900 lung cancer surgeries per year. 8 or 9 on each of his surgery days. In our 15 minute meeting he decided to biopsy a node showing up on the esophagous as a possible place of spreading, then do a CT scan to help determine if they need to do a 6 hour arterial embolism to cauterize veins two days before removing a section or whole lobe through spreading of the 4th and 5th ribs at the back. Embolism through crotch vein two days before surgery so creatinine and (?) will be eliminated. In hospital 3 or 4 days after the 1.1 hour surgery.

I was disappointed and shocked at my friend that he was going to see a famous U.S. surgeon without printouts of the scans and only CDs. Seeing a disaster in the making, I managed to go through the scans and pick the best two out of all the sections and have them showing on my laptop. The surgeon took strong interest in one. My friend has a complex congenital arrangement of things that possibly caused a childhood infection/bronchitis that led to unusual scarring and now finally this cancer. I think the surgeon needed to look at the other sections to see the layout of the veins, heart, and nodes, but he didn't seem to have time and enough interest to pull them up on his computer. He saw 21 other lung cancer patients so far that day (1/2 of which were probably the first meeting and the next time he sees them, they may be unconscious on an operating table like my friend). He wasn't interested in blood work or CT scans from other places, so those will be automatically repeated, a week after the previous ones were completed and ignored. Strange how insurance companies don't complain. I video recorded the conversation, as recommended by the surgeon, which my friend will make open to the public on youtube.

Edited by zawy, 11 September 2009 - 04:00 PM.


#29 tham

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 08:20 PM

Resveratrol is good as a general cancer preventative and therapy,
but I would not advise it in those cancers which proliferate by
the PPAR gamma pathway, which includes SCLC.

Two other members, Blutarsky and Prophet also noted this, and
we tried to warn Bill to stop it at that time, at least during his chemo.

Quercetin also inhibits PPAR gamma.

Others may not share this view, but I personally would not take
resveratrol and quercetin if I had SCLC, or other cancers which
use this pathway to grow.


Go for niacinamide instead, which was advised by Abram Hoffer
as part of his cancer fighting protocol faxed to me over a decade
ago. 1,500 mg a day.


http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=343009


As for chemo, see if you get your friend in an amrubicin trial, which
Bill tried his best to enter when he was fighting this cancer, but
could not.

I'll look for the relevant links later.

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#30 zawy

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:09 PM

He has NSCLC, not SCLC. Cancer is so complex, I would place direct observation over chemical theory. It has to be really solid chemical theory before it can replace decent biological observation. Quercetin seems like a good idea: "consumption of quercetin from onions and apples was inversely correlated with lung cancer risk." But the abstract does not say what type. He has the skullcap, but he's maxed out on pills and resistant to adding the very positive-sounding shiitake. So I'm taking out some things like resveratrol (because the oral resv has had no effect on lung cancer from several different investigative points of view). Selenium still looks like the best since it has the best bioavailability and strong effect.




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