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Adderall


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11 replies to this topic

#1 taza0

Posted 06 April 2004 - 11:16 AM


I would like to know, simply, if there is any drug that gives similar levels of mental activation, perhaps without increased heart rate. I know the separation between Adderall and nootropics; I am asking if there's anything that gives similar activation.

#2 chomsky Re: Adderall

Posted 06 April 2004 - 03:40 PM

The only real practical way to mimic the effects of amphetamine is to use analouges of the chemcial. Amphetamine belongs to a class of drugs called phenethylamines, which have various structural relatives including phentermine and selegiline. The latter is devoid of the catecholamine releasing effect, and in my experience feels absolutely nothing like adderall or any of the other amphetamine salts. I have never tried Phentermine, which is an anoretic drug, meaning it is used to help people loose weight. This drug does have catecholamine releasing effects, and therefore also has a contraindication for people with heart conditions. Another drug which is not a structural relative of amphetamine, but produces amphetamine-like effects, is the scarcely availible tricyclic antidepressant Amineptine. This drug has a high affinity for inhibiting the re-uptake of dopamine, and at higher doses promotes dopamine release. It was pulled off the market some time ago, which was in my opinion unwarranted, and drove it into the grey market. There is of course Adrafinil/Modafinil, which are classified as psychostimulants and are alpha-1 receptor agonists. Both of these drugs are reported to increase alertness and vigilance. I have only tried Adrafinil, which I find to give a transient feeling of wakefulness and mild stimulation of productive tendencies.

I emphasize transient as a theme here, because with amphetamines you take them and an hour later BAM! you feel the pleasant effects without a doubt, there is no question in your mind as to whether they are working or not. With smart drugs there is no slap in the face onset of action, I've never sat there studying thinking "Oh man, this Piracetam is really, really working." I think nootropics are fairly "soft drugs", in that they sometimes work, but the effects are not immediately strong enough to notice a difference. In other words, you can't just take Piracetam and sit around and watch TV and expect to feel mentally stimulated or motivated. Whereas with "hard drugs" such as amphetamines, if you pop 30 mg and sit around for a while, all of a sudden a while later your up and cleaning or doing whatever. There is a drastic shift in your state of consciousness with amphetamines, but with smart drugs, the effects are not drastic nor immediate.

Anyway, I don't believe there is any smart drug/nootropic which mimics the effects of amphetamines. I wish their were a drug like amphetamine that was similar in safety profile to nootropics, but unfourtunately there has been no such development in pharmacology to my knowledge.

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#3 macdog Re: Adderall

Posted 06 April 2004 - 04:19 PM

I might recomend some of the readily available hemodialators to get some of the amphetamine like effect with heart related issues. NO2 is available in many places, but recently a new product has been released more geared towards weight loss and workout energy than nootropics. Still, as someone who is pretty darn sensitive to stimulants, and sometimes fatigues easily because of a medication I am already one, I have founf no equal. The product is calle HOT-ROX, and the real novel substance is something called Sclaremax, derived from Salvia sclerea (every time you turn around there's some new species of Salvia doing something interesting). This product creates a definite sense of mental alertness, physical energy and even an upswing in mood with the apparent dangers of amphetamines. This product has been so effective for me that after two months of use I have an entirely new baseline for energy and alertness without even taking the product, which I haven't taken for the last few weeks. The product claims to directly stimulate fat usage and inhibit fat storage, which leads me to wonder if this isn't a safer alternative to Centropenaxine. That there are effects that continue well beyond the time that I have been taking the product makes me wonder if perhaps there have been lipofuscin effects, where waste products are removed from clogging cellular pathways, and hence making the rest of my supplement regime that much more effective.

80 capsules costs roughly $75 at GNC. It is completely worth it. i would be very interested to learn about others who also try this substance. I'm going to do some research and post more about it in the supplements forum.

#4 bacopa Re: Adderall

  • Location:Boston

Posted 07 April 2004 - 11:02 AM

I dislike amphetamines because of the rapid heart beat and frankly can't stand trying to read with that over excited feeling, I feel like a rabid dog! I want psychoparmacologists to come up with a smart drug that REALLY works not some Piracatem type of drug. I'm not sure if Nootropics do anything other than mild increase in concentration levels.

#5 bradcure Re: Adderall

Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:45 PM

Yeah, I wish I knew something that worked quite close to amphetamines. I've tried Piracetam, Selegiline (Deprenyl), Creatine, Vinpocetine, so far nothing resembles EVEN CLOSE to amphetamines. Too bad, because amphetamines have their nasty side-effect profile (heart problems, appettite suppresion, sleep problems)

#6 Re: Adderall

Posted 07 April 2004 - 11:00 PM

To permanantly and substantially improve intelligence, it will probably take more than the drugs available today. These drugs all do their part to optimize the function of the brain, and they do a pretty good job of it in a stack, but I would think if you ramped up neuron creation in the brain and were able to employ those cells to repair and expand various areas of the brain that would, I expect, improve overall intelligence, permanantly and cumulatively over time. However how these neurons are used is decided by the body, trying to mimic a childlike state of excess neurons waiting to form connections and skills that will last a lifetime might be a difficult thing to do. Also something to note is that our DNA does a fair bit in defining our intelligence, and it isn't always the number of neurons you have connected in your brain that makes you more intelligent, I believe how they are connected and how they communicate with each other is also vital. There are quite a number of genes associated with intelligence one way or another, if the function of those genes could be mimiced by drugs than that would bridge one gap toward higher intelligence I think.

edit: Also a noteworthy thing to mention, Piracetam is not a bad drug at all but it's problem is that a tolerance for it is built in the body over time. I know the Pramiracetam analogue and nefircetam don't do that, therefore they don't cause withdrawal symptoms and lessened potency over time, although they are both unavailable through commercial venues for one reason or another. Aniracetam seems to be a more potent version of Piracetam, like the two aforemention cetams, however this one is commercially available. What I do not know about Aniracetam is whether one builds a tolerance to it, Aniracetam is not available in cheaper powder form yet but it is available in pill form from many sites I'm waiting for testimonials to see if a tolerance is built or not from taking this supplement, if the body doesn't build a tolerance to it you could theoretically rachet up the dosage and it would remain consistantly potent as long as you take it.

#7 shpongled Re: Adderall

Posted 08 April 2004 - 01:29 AM

I would like to know, simply, if there is any drug that gives similar levels of mental activation, perhaps without increased heart rate. I know the separation between Adderall and nootropics; I am asking if there's anything that gives similar activation.


Maybe amphetamine + beta blockers. I'm not familiar with any drugs that are exclusively potent central CNS stimulants without the peripheral effects, and I doubt they are out there, unfortunately.

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention, is deprenyl + D,L-phenylalanine is similar to amphetamine but without the development of tolerance according to a few studies. Still causes blood pressure increase etc. though.

Edited by shpongled, 08 April 2004 - 01:49 AM.


#8 shpongled Re: Adderall

Posted 08 April 2004 - 01:46 AM

dfowler: I dislike amphetamines because of the rapid heart beat and frankly can't stand trying to read with that over excited feeling, I feel like a rabid dog!  I want psychoparmacologists to come up with a smart drug that REALLY  works not some Piracatem type of drug.  I'm not sure if Nootropics do anything other than mild increase in concentration levels.


It depends on what you want in a "smart drug." For me a nootropic is something that increases memory, learning capacity, maybe concentration. This doesn't mean it's going to be overtly psychoactive. It's not that they don't work. It's just that people expect it to be something that it isn't. In fact part of the definition of "nootropic" includes not having sedative, stimulant, etc. effects.

#9 bacopa Re: Adderall

  • Location:Boston

Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:18 AM

That may be I just want to make sure that it is at least working in some degree even though it probably is Aniracatem is something I have yet to try, same with deprynal and Hydergine...vinpocetine seemed to be a strong nootropic as well...just not entirely convinced how 'smart' a smart drug actually is.

#10 Re: Adderall

Posted 08 April 2004 - 04:30 AM

Stimulants and sedatives are not nootropics, I can't stress this enough. If you make potent stack of the best nootropics we have available, and make it stimulant free, the possibility does exist today to have a pretty substantial effect on intelligence and concetration. Hopefully by the time the summer has rolled around I will have had the chance to test some Aniracetam.

#11 bradcure Re: Adderall

Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:30 AM

Hmm I think that what differs amphetamine from smart-drugs is the sudden rise in "motivation". Both amphetamines and smart-drugs increase focus & concentration, mental energy, clearer thinking BUT ONLY amphetamines increase motivation.

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#12 Re: Adderall

Posted 08 April 2004 - 08:44 AM

I hear that some nootropic stacks increase motivation, although this is based off of heresay and I won't hold myself to that statement.




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