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The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

regimen

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#31 Michael

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 09:47 PM

All:

i noticed you have no fish oil or flax/borage oil. any thoughts on this? do you get it through your diet?

NB that I did post my dietary info for a representative week, including:

Lipids
==================
Saturated | 9.5 g
Monounsaturated | 39.5 g
Polyunsaturated | 20.9 g
Omega-3 | 7.6 g 190%
Omega-6 | 13.2 g
Trans-Fats | 0.0 g
Cholesterol | 30.8 mg 10%
Phytosterol | 136.2 mg

... and I specifically recommend that people on CR favor ALA (eg flax) over long-chain omega-3s (EPA/DHA/fatty fish), which has cardiovascular outcomes at least as favorable and doesn't potentially undermine CR's effects on mitochondrial inner membrane composition, as outlined (badly out of date!) eg here; for a semi-update , see references (1-15) here.

It's also worth noting that the CVD benefits of omega-3 of any form are actually (and very surprisingly) somewhat in doubt (3).

I'm also surprised not to see any probiotics on this list. Seems like a no-brainer.

Your surprise seems to imply that you think everybody has gut dysbiosis :) . And, FWIW, I've been consuming home-brew kefir for > 7 yrs.

I am more interested in the rationale behind the 1mg sublingual methylcobalamin, an exponentially higher dose than the RDA

Caught :|? . Yes, this is quite inconsistent. I can't really justify it: I do need a B12 supplement, I'm enamored of the apparent neurological benefits (not absolutely clearly better than cyano- , and not clearly sensible at this dose vs non-deficient or multi-mg megadose as in neurological disease trials), and gawrsh, it sure looks safe ;) .

[Resveratrol is] a substance of unkown benefits even on those select few endpoints in rodents (much less knowing whether any of the data translates to humans!) and the additional drawback of zero safety data for chronic use. High doses of resveratrol are basically untested. [b]You'd be taking an experimental drug that was never tested in humans.

Yet I have found nothing with as positive an effect for me on osteoarthritis.

You're a sample size of 1; you have a specific condition which most people don't have; you've been taking it for what -- 3-5 years? -- certainly not a lifetime as a putative anti-aging agent for healthy humans; and, yes, there is the placebo effect.

Even were celebrex to as effective, its long-term effects are even more worisome, and that is perhaps the safest of the high-power drugs in the rheumatoligists' arsenal. At least resveratrol did not shorten life expectancy in that study.

Celebrex looked quite fine in the preclinical studies, and actually, it's no safer in the real world even for GI bleeds and ulcers than other NSAIDs, with the contrary illusion created by selective reporting (1,2) and aggressive marketing -- and, of course, it took many years after approval, and use in physician-monitored patient populations of thousands, to uncover the cardiovascular side effects.

Statins cause myalgia in perhaps 1-5% of patients, and analyses of large patient databases from FDA (4) and large HMOs (5) found a rate of actual rhabdomyolysis from monotherapy in currently-approved statins to be ≤ 1.18 per 100,000 prescriptions -- though muscle damage visible on electron microscopy and other analyses persists in patients who discontinue following myalgia symptoms alone (6) To take a more extreme example, < 1 in 10 long-term smokers develop lung cancer, and it takes decades to show up. There is a reason why, even accounting for Big Tobacco malfeasance, the association was not well-established until well into the late 20th century.

-Michael
1. Therapeutics initiative for evidence-based drug therapy. COX-2 inhibitors update: Do journal publications tell the full story? Ther Letter 2001–2002; 43(Nov-Dec/Jan):1-2.

2. Wooltorton E. What's all the fuss? Safety concerns about COX-2 inhibitors rofecoxib (Vioxx) and celecoxib (Celebrex). CMAJ. 2002 Jun 25;166(13):1692-3.
PubMed PMID: 12126328; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC116160.

3. León H, Shibata MC, Sivakumaran S, Dorgan M, Chatterley T, Tsuyuki RT. Effect of fish oil on arrhythmias and mortality: systematic review. BMJ. 2008 Dec
23;337:a2931. doi: 10.1136/bmj.a2931. Review. PubMed PMID: 19106137

4. Chang JT, Staffa JA, Parks M, Green L. Rhabdomyolysis with HMG-CoA reductase
inhibitors and gemfibrozil combination therapy. Pharmacoepidemiol Drug Saf. 2004
Jul;13(7):417-26. PubMed PMID: 15269925.

5. Graham DJ, Staffa JA, Shatin D, Andrade SE, Schech SD, La Grenade L, Gurwitz
JH, Chan KA, Goodman MJ, Platt R. Incidence of hospitalized rhabdomyolysis in
patients treated with lipid-lowering drugs. JAMA. 2004 Dec 1;292(21):2585-90.
Epub 2004 Nov 22. PubMed PMID: 15572716.

6. Mohaupt MG, Karas RH, Babiychuk EB, Sanchez-Freire V, Monastyrskaya K, Iyer L,
Hoppeler H, Breil F, Draeger A. Association between statin-associated myopathy and skeletal muscle damage. CMAJ. 2009 Jul 7;181(1-2):E11-8. PubMed PMID:
19581603; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC2704421.

Edited by Michael, 31 December 2009 - 10:47 PM.
Adding statin example


#32 Orthorexic Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 10:29 AM

... and I specifically recommend that people on CR favor ALA (eg flax) over long-chain omega-3s (EPA/DHA/fatty fish), which has cardiovascular outcomes at least as favorable and doesn't potentially undermine CR's effects on mitochondrial inner membrane composition, as outlined (badly out of date!) eg here; for a semi-update , see references (1-15) here.

What's your opinion about the potential prostate cancer risk of high dietary ALA intakes?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15051847
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10750674
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15017185

And another question. What are your dietary staples?

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#33 woly Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:13 AM

This may have been already asked but would you be able to post what you eat on a typical day? I would be very interested!

Also, 64 grams of fiber? WOW! :p

#34 DairyProducts Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Chicago, IL

Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:44 AM

"I chose pom juice for the many promising-looking studies in disease states, tho' again the dose may be inadequate (studies typically use 1-2 C)."

Another good place to get cheap pomagrante juice is in Middle-Eastern grocery stores. Many other "ethnic" grocery stores also carry 100% pure juice that isn't as expensive as the yuppified brands like POM. I also get dirt cheap EV Olive Oil ($11 for 3 Liters) from these types of places. My rule of thumb is if the food has been around for a long time and Oprah just pimped it, buy from the people who were using it before she was.

#35 kodi Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 30 May 2010 - 04:24 PM

~15 min after breakfast (superior pharmacokinetics (17,18)):
50 mg P5P

Did you forget to cross that off your list? In another topic you said, "I already recognized that PM and P5P were by a substantial margin the most tenuous and risky of supplement gambles that I was making ...It is extremely clear to me that no healthy, normal life extensionist should continue taking these supplements as antiglycation agents."`

#36 Michael Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:29 PM

50 mg P5P

Did you forget to cross that off your list?

Yes -- good catch; thanks.

#37 1kgcoffee Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:24 AM

not even a little pyridoxamine??

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 24 August 2010 - 05:27 AM.


#38 VespeneGas Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Oregon, atm

Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for keeping this updated! Our regimens are surprisingly similar, though you must eat about 5kg of greens per diem to get that much nutrition out of 1750 kcals ^_^

#39 rwac Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 05:05 PM

I believe smartpowders has a Pyroglutamic acid product.
I don't know if that fits your needs, but I'm sure Mike M will be glad to give you a CoA.

Also, have you modified your regimen to take genetic issues into account ?

#40 Benedictus Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Meow Bay

Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:05 PM

High doses of resveratrol are basically untested.

Sorry, but that's just not true. You do realize how much resveratrol is consumed by average wine-drinking citizen of Southern France? I'd say that's a pretty large test-case, if only for the pretty obvious non-toxicty coming from that consumption level. Besides, define "high doses", what is "high"?

#41 Benedictus Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:18 PM

[Resveratrol is] a substance of unkown benefits even on those select few endpoints in rodents (much less knowing whether any of the data translates to humans!) and the additional drawback of zero safety data for chronic use. High doses of resveratrol are basically untested. [b]You'd be taking an experimental drug that was never tested in humans.

Yet I have found nothing with as positive an effect for me on osteoarthritis.

You're a sample size of 1; you have a specific condition which most people don't have; you've been taking it for what -- 3-5 years? -- certainly not a lifetime as a putative anti-aging agent for healthy humans; and, yes, there is the placebo effect.

Sorry, here again I have to deny your assumptions regarding trans-resveratrol. I recommend you to take a teaspoon of the purest powder of it you can find, mix it with some fruit juice, and drink that when you feel you have a fever from a recent influenza. Honestly, you will not be linking it with 'placenta' anytime soon after that. It has lowered influenza fever duration for me with ridiculous amounts. Sure, it should be tested, I agree, but I've been trying it that way on myself ever since I read the research on curing lifebearing fish with resveratrol consumption, just as an experiment, and it worked. After my findings there, I take about a teaspoon every three weeks on average, for almost 3 years now. So far, it has not shown negative results for my health in any way.

So: Sample-size is at least 5, if you look in this thread alone.

Edited by Benedictus, 25 February 2011 - 01:19 PM.


#42 Michael Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:44 PM

Thanks for keeping this updated! Our regimens are surprisingly similar, though you must eat about 5kg of greens per diem to get that much nutrition out of 1750 kcals ^_^

Must post diet ...

I believe smartpowders has a Pyroglutamic acid product.

Finding powder isn't terribly hard; as indicated, I'm looking for premade caps. Too much fussing with my pills already.

Also, have you modified your regimen to take genetic issues into account ?

Nope: I don't have any that I know of (happily longevous ancestors, with diseases limited and clearly environmental), and the state of science on personal genetics testing is way too early to be of clinical use to anyone on the nutrition front, AFAICS.

High doses of resveratrol are basically untested.

Sorry, but that's just not true. You do realize how much resveratrol is consumed by average wine-drinking citizen of Southern France?

Very little indeed. You seem to think that there is a lot of resveratrol in wine, and there just isn't: a USDA standard 150 mL (5 oz) glass of red wine has less than 2 milligrams of resveratrol, and many have only a trace of the stuff. A Spanish study put the median and mean intake of resveratrol plus piecid from all dietary sources combined at 100 and 933 µg/d, respectively -- ie, less than one milligram; the highest-intake group (75th percentile intake in males) was still only 2.5 mg.

Besides, define "high doses", what is "high"?

As a rule of thumb, excluding frank known toxicity, I'd say more than 5-10 x dietary intake for high-consumption groups is "high."

[Resveratrol has] zero safety data for chronic use. High doses of resveratrol are basically untested. You'd be taking an experimental drug that was never tested in humans.

Yet I have found nothing with as positive an effect for me on osteoarthritis.

You're a sample size of 1; you have a specific condition which most people don't have; you've been taking it for what -- 3-5 years? -- certainly not a lifetime as a putative anti-aging agent for healthy humans; and, yes, there is the placebo effect.

Sorry, here again I have to deny your assumptions regarding trans-resveratrol. I recommend you to take a teaspoon of the purest powder of it you can find, mix it with some fruit juice, and drink that when you feel you have a fever from a recent influenza. Honestly, you will not be linking it with 'placenta' anytime soon after that.

Please note: 'placebo,' not 'placenta.' In any case, (a) people who have miraculous recoveries after taking substances of no medicinal value won't think it's placebo, either: if they did, of course, such therapies wouldn't get spread in the absence of evidence; and (b) you're talking about infrequent, multi-gram dosing, not chronic consumption of a couple of grams a day -- quite different.

It has lowered influenza fever duration for me with ridiculous amounts.

You're asserting a counterfactual. You have no idea how long you would have had the fever if you hadn't taken it. That's why we run controlled trials.

So far, it has not shown negative results for my health in any way.

Hundreds of thousands of Vioxx, rezulin, and Baycol, and Propulsid users would say the same ... and those all went through proper clinical trials first ...

So: Sample-size is at least 5, if you look in this thread alone.

I dare you to run a p-value on that ;) . And your control group is ...?

Edited by Michael, 25 February 2011 - 04:55 PM.

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#43 aldebaran Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 27 February 2011 - 11:47 PM

Now, all we need is posted blood work to back up all the ego.

It's funny, by the way, how my annual blood work reveals no damage from all the years of taking those evil multi-vitamins. Someone must have forgotten to tell the labs about that "absolute truth".
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#44 pamojja Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 01:08 AM

Must post diet ...

Looking forward to.

Someone must have forgotten to tell the labs about that "absolute truth".

Reading Michael very carefully, I didn't find anything declared as 'absolute'. Though from my perspective his stance often reminds me to never going out on the street for fear due to the statistical likelihood of being overdriven (..only to die more probably at home). But then my perspective is influenced by not having anything close to perfect health, and much benefits from mega-dosing. :)

Some prefer to take a multi for good reasons, others don't for very good other reasons. Neither has it absolutely right, nor does it need justification to others in any way but oneself. And the willingness to handle maybe unforeseen results, either way, whatever one's decision. We are all just exploring..

Of course, there are others on this forum who take Michael and his decisions for the science given absolute.. But that's theirs.

#45 Sillewater Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Canada

Posted 08 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

5 g Glycine


You say mostly for sleep. Are there other reasons? e.g. Br J Nutr. 2005 Sep;94(3):321-30.Dietary proteins with high isoflavone content or low methionine-glycine and lysine-arginine ratios are hypocholesterolaemic and lower the plasma homocysteine level in male Zucker fa/fa rats.Gudbrandsen OA, Wergedahl H, Liaset B, Espe M, Berge RK.

#46 Sillewater Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Canada

Posted 04 June 2011 - 09:05 PM

Zinc: my regular diet includes what should be quite adequate zinc, but my dietary copper intake is so high I get (copper-induced secondary zinc deficiency if I don't supplement (click on the "Research" tab; most people are more likely to have the converse problem). This was mildly symptomatic for much of the year for several years, and even the 7 mg/d in the Veg Booster isn't quite enough to keep it at bay.


Wondering what symptoms you were experiencing? Did you actually experience diarrhea and thinking problems?

#47 Forever21 Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:46 PM

Does anyone know where to buy Wine RX now?

Amazon link in the original post says currently unavailable.

#48 albedo Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:57 AM

I returned to this great post so many times! Wonder if Michael can still take time from his agenda continuing feeding this. Btw happy to see IP6 quoted (experimenting with it due to possible hemochromatosis and iron load).

#49 albedo Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:18 AM

An update from Michael is HERE.
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#50 Sillewater Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Canada

Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:33 AM

400mg of phosphatidylcholine only = 60mg of choline isn't it? Are you getting your choline from lecithin?

#51 Michael Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:51 PM

5 g Glycine

You say mostly for sleep. Are there other reasons? e.g. Br J Nutr. 2005 Sep;94(3):321-30. Dietary proteins with high isoflavone content or low methionine-glycine and lysine-arginine ratios are hypocholesterolaemic and lower the plasma homocysteine level in male Zucker fa/fa rats .Gudbrandsen OA, Wergedahl H, Liaset B, Espe M, Berge RK.

I doubt that adding more glycine is a good way to get this effect, and I'm pretty happy with how low I've pushed both my Met and my cholesterol. No, I'm really only taking it for sleep these days. I had, ironically, been taking it for hGH at one point ...

To anticipate: no, I'm not worried about this: my IGF-1 levels are at this point plenty damned low, presumably because of low insulin levels and overnight fasting, so I'm not worried that I'm getting excess nighttime hGH as a side effect.

Zinc: my regular diet includes what should be quite adequate zinc, but my dietary copper intake is so high I get copper-induced secondary zinc deficiency if I don't supplement ... This was mildly symptomatic for much of the year for several years, and even the 7 mg/d in the Veg Booster isn't quite enough to keep it at bay.

Wondering what symptoms you were experiencing? Did you actually experience diarrhea and thinking problems?

If you go back and read the whole post, you'll see:

I actually exhibit symptoms of Zn deficiency (Beau's lines (more usually associated with iron deficiency), cracking fingertip skin, inability to taste zinc sulphate heptahydrate solution [just now added this link]) when I don't, despite a fairly high dietary Zn, presumably due to high dietary copper.


Does anyone know where to buy Wine RX now?

Amazon link in the original post says currently unavailable.

For reasons I prefer not to delineate, I no longer consider this to be a reliable red wine extract IAC.

400mg of phosphatidylcholine only = 60mg of choline isn't it? Are you getting your choline from lecithin?

I'm getting it as phosphatidylcholine concentrate, not straight lecithin (too many Calories, often rancid, and I suspect (based on due to quantity required, lack of encapsulation (usually), and surface area of granules) that it's more likely to form TMA(O) via bacterial action while in storage (see (1) on the issue, tho' no direct data on this point) -- but I wasn't aware that phosphatidylcholine is only 13% free choline by weight . Thank you!

Reference
1: Zeisel SH, Wishnok JS, Blusztajn JK. Formation of methylamines from ingested choline and lecithin. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1983 May;225(2):320-4. PubMed PMID: 6842395.

Edited by Michael, 17 November 2011 - 03:03 PM.


#52 Sillewater Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Canada

Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

I was originally getting my choline from lecithin pills, then decided to switch to granules 1 week ago. Totally didn't think about the rancidity issue, was actually unaware it was so high in linoleic acid. In (1) they found in humans that lecithin didn't increase TMAO (however they did procure it from Merck, thus probably high quality). However from your referenced study it seems that store bought probably contains TMAO. Anyway, from (1) seafood is the greatest source of all.

Where do you get your phosphatidylcholine?

References

01. Food Chem Toxicol. 1999 May;37(5):515-20.Dietary precursors of trimethylamine in man: a pilot study.Zhang AQ, Mitchell SC, Smith RL.

#53 PerfectSeek Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:51 AM

Michael thanks for posting your regimen. &nbsp;I'm curious if you have any concerns re: the dosage of menatetrenone, a 15mg dose seems fairly high and would be unattainable from diet alone.

#54 PerfectSeek Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:21 AM

Also interested on your rational for lactoferrin and whether or not you consume whey protein. Thanks Michael!

#55 APBT Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:40 PM

Michael thanks for posting your regimen. &nbsp;I'm curious if you have any concerns re: the dosage of menatetrenone, a 15mg dose seems fairly high and would be unattainable from diet alone.


I'm not replying for Michael but, there are several studies that used 45 mg of menatetrenone daily to improve bone mineral density. Here's one:

J Orthop Sci. 2001 ;6 (6):487-92 11793169 Cit:22
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
Effect of menatetrenone on bone mineral density and incidence of vertebral fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis: a comparison with the effect of etidronate.
[My paper]J Iwamoto, T Takeda, S Ichimura
Department of Sports Medicine, Keio University School of Medicine, 35 Shinanomachi, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 160-8582, Japan.
The purpose of the present study was to compare the effects of etidronate and menatetrenone on bone mineral density (BMD) and the incidence of vertebral fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. Seventy-two osteoporotic women, more than 5 years after menopause, 53-78 years of age, were randomly divided into three administration groups: E group; intermittent cyclical etidronate (200 mg/day, 14 days per 3 months; n = 25); M group; menatetrenone (45 mg/day, daily; n = 23); and C group (control); calcium lactate (2 g/day, daily; n = 24). Forearm BMD was measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry at 0, 6, 12, 18, and 24 months after the treatment started. There were no significant differences in age, body mass index, years since menopause, and initial BMD among the three groups. One-way analysis of variance (ANOVA) with repeated measurements showed a significant decrease in BMD in the C group (P < 0.0001). Two-way ANOVA with repeated measurements showed a significant increase in BMD in the M group compared with that in the C group (P < 0.0001), and a significant increase in BMD in the E group compared with that in the C and M groups (P < 0.0001 and P < 0.01, respectively). The indices of new vertebral fractures/1000 patient-years in the E and M groups were significantly higher than that in the C group (chi(2)= 47.7; P < 0.0001 and chi(2)= 42.4; P < 0.0001, respectively), and did not differ significantly between the E and M groups. The present preliminary study provides evidence to suggest that, despite the lower increase in BMD produced by menatetrenone, this agent, as well as etidronate, may have the potential to reduce osteoporotic vertebral fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis.



#56 moltiube Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:houston

Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:26 PM

Rhodiola~500 and Bacopa~1gm 2x (am/pm) (half the amounts :) would be nice imo.

Also take a huge heaping tablespoon of milk thistle mixed in with whatever you want; shake, food, water - whatever - daily; it will do anything but hurt. I finished a 125 gram tube of milk thistle over the course of a yearish and it does wonders on its own.

Edited by moltiube, 14 December 2011 - 06:38 PM.

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#57 albedo Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:25 PM

4:30, with green tea or other beverage:
500 mg IP-6
500 mg Inositol (possibly synergistic to IP-6)
50 mg pyridoxamine

I assume you're still supplementing with it and assume your rationale is like mine for immune system support and normal cell growth and differentiation (I am using CellForte though). You CRON-WEB lecture seems favorable to this as Tier II ("Points to allyl sulfides, I3C (RCT for cervical carcinoma in situ 79 – but again, mixed benefits/risks 80 – stick to broccoli), IP6, sulforaphane (specific, gene-linked epidemiology[167]), limonene (separate epidemiology for citrus peels[168],[169]).165, 166,..."). Am I assuming rightly? Thank you in advance!

#58 Michael Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:43 PM

Where do you get your phosphatidylcholine?

For the moment, unfortunately, I'm just buying it from relatively high-turnover sources of generally-reliable commodity-item products. I emailed, and had extended discussions with, both LEF and Swanson, to no avail. As you know, I tried to engage Longecity leadership on the issue too -- also to no avail, thus far.

Also interested on your rational for lactoferrin and whether or not you consume whey protein.

I assume you are interested in my rationale for lactoferrin (and not, eg, whether I'm still rational ;) ). I consume LF precisely because I've stopped using whey protein because it activates mTOR (see this and this for more recent studies on health effects of high intake of leucine; we were discussing this study and this one) , and don't want to lose the contribution it was already making to my Fe absorption and immunity when I was consuming whey.

I'm curious if you have any concerns re: the dosage of menatetrenone, a 15mg dose seems fairly high and would be unattainable from diet alone.

It is, quite consciously, a pharmacological rather than a physiological dose, because my very low body mass leads to a low BMD, and if anything, this is too little for the evidence base. Ie, this supplement and dose is specific to my own case; I absolutely do not recommend this (or, indeed, any particular supplement or dose) for universal use.

I'm not replying for Michael but, there are several studies that used 45 mg of menatetrenone daily to improve bone mineral density.

Thanks for this. In fact, however, nearly none of the trials find an increase in BMD. The effect is instead hypothesized (with some limited evidence) to be mediated by improved bone microarchitecture.

Rhodiola~500 and Bacopa~1gm 2x (am/pm) (half the amounts :) would be nice imo. Also take a huge heaping tablespoon of milk thistle

If you've read my post, you know that I regard all of this as absolutely insane.

I assume you're still supplementing with [IP-6 + inositol] and assume your rationale is like mine for immune system support and normal cell growth and differentiation (I am using CellForte though). You CRON-WEB lecture seems favorable to this as Tier II [...] Am I assuming rightly?

That, and some evidence of improved BMD, lower risk of tissue calcification, and even kidney stones (to which I have no reason to suspect I am vulnerable). All that said, the evidence base for any of this is really very weak; I have been going back and forth on it for some time, esp as (a) I suspect my dietary phytic acid intake is relatively high anyway (tho' I don't consume much or any grains, I do consume a lot of nuts and legumes), and (b) my serum phosphorus level is rather high, and high serum phosphorus may be a risk for cardiovascular disease (and see PMID 19948843 on cardiovascular and total mortality, as well as 19321494 -- but see per contra PMID 18992979).
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#59 Sillewater Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

  • Location:Canada

Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:56 PM

Cell. 2012 Jan 20;148(1-2):259-72. Epub 2012 Jan 5.


Glycine decarboxylase activity drives non-small cell lung cancer tumor-initiating cells and tumorigenesis.

Zhang WC, Shyh-Chang N, Yang H, Rai A, Umashankar S, Ma S, Soh BS, Sun LL, Tai BC, Nga ME, Bhakoo KK, Jayapal SR, Nichane M, Yu Q, Ahmed DA, Tan C, Sing WP, Tam J, Thirugananam A, Noghabi MS, Huei Pang Y, Ang HS, Robson P, Kaldis P, Soo RA, Swarup S, Lim EH, Lim B.


Identification of the factors critical to the tumor-initiating cell (TIC) state may open new avenues in cancer therapy. Here we show that the metabolic enzyme glycine decarboxylase (GLDC) is critical for TICs in non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC). TICs from primary NSCLC tumors express high levels of the oncogenic stem cell factor LIN28B and GLDC, which are both required for TIC growth and tumorigenesis. Overexpression of GLDC and other glycine/serine enzymes, but not catalytically inactive GLDC, promotes cellular transformation and tumorigenesis. We found that GLDC induces dramatic changes in glycolysis and glycine/serine metabolism, leading to changes in pyrimidine metabolism to regulate cancer cell proliferation. In the clinic, aberrant activation of GLDC correlates with poorer survival in lung cancer patients, and aberrant GLDC expression is observed in multiple cancer types. This link between glycine metabolism and tumorigenesis may provide novel targets for advancing anticancer therapy.



Have you seen this study with regard to glycine? I'm assuming glycine levels do increase in the serum due to supplementation and this would induce increases in GLDC.

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#60 Michael Re: The State of My Pills, Fall 2009

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

Folks still following this thread, please note that I've posted my 2012 supplement regimen, and my diet.





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