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Huperzine A vs. Galantamine


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#1 qwerty3

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:37 AM


I am currently taking 100 mcg of Huperzine A per day. With that dosage I am experiencing a number of uncomfortable side effects including nausea, photosensitivity, and a vague feeling that my balance and coordination are slightly off. I've looked at some of the posts here, and it seems that if anything Huperzine A should cause fewer problems than Galantamine. If anyone has experience with both Huperzine A and Galantamine that would be particularly helpful. I need to decide if I should bite the bullet and pay the $40+ dollars just to try it. I'm not sure if this acceptable to ask in this forum, but perhaps one of you has some galantamine leftover? I would be willing to be pay shipping and a reasonable amount for the remaining stock. Also does anyone take both Huperzine A and Galantamine or Galantamine and a choline source such as Alpha-GPC or CDP-choline?

I would appreciate any input,

Thanks

#2 Galantamine

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 05:31 AM

I am currently taking 100 mcg of Huperzine A per day. With that dosage I am experiencing a number of uncomfortable side effects including nausea, photosensitivity, and a vague feeling that my balance and coordination are slightly off. I've looked at some of the posts here, and it seems that if anything Huperzine A should cause fewer problems than Galantamine. If anyone has experience with both Huperzine A and Galantamine that would be particularly helpful. I need to decide if I should bite the bullet and pay the $40+ dollars just to try it. I'm not sure if this acceptable to ask in this forum, but perhaps one of you has some galantamine leftover? I would be willing to be pay shipping and a reasonable amount for the remaining stock. Also does anyone take both Huperzine A and Galantamine or Galantamine and a choline source such as Alpha-GPC or CDP-choline?

I would appreciate any input,

Thanks


No choline-source should be taken with either one of these supplements.

I've personally never experienced nausea with huperzine, although I have with galantamine at higher doses.

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#3 Pike

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:25 AM

first of all: how old are you?

if you're under 50, you don't stand to gain much from the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors that you can't gain much more safely with some of the cholinergic precursors.

second of all, if you ARE going to use the AChEIs, don't waste your money on galantamine. if you don't plan on taking galantamine chronically, the dopamine agonist effect it has will probably never be comfortable. from personal experience, galantamine is okay, but way overpriced. huperzine is pretty decent, and i like the NMDA-receptor antagonist effect that it has. that said, it's completely unnecessary for young people, because our bodies are pretty darn good at converting choline to acetylcholine. supplemental choline is cheaper, safer, and depending on what form of choline you're using, offers more to gain from chronic use.

and as Irish MD said, combining choline with AChEIs is dangerous.

#4 qwerty3

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:26 AM

first of all: how old are you?

if you're under 50, you don't stand to gain much from the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors that you can't gain much more safely with some of the cholinergic precursors.

second of all, if you ARE going to use the AChEIs, don't waste your money on galantamine. if you don't plan on taking galantamine chronically, the dopamine agonist effect it has will probably never be comfortable. from personal experience, galantamine is okay, but way overpriced. huperzine is pretty decent, and i like the NMDA-receptor antagonist effect that it has. that said, it's completely unnecessary for young people, because our bodies are pretty darn good at converting choline to acetylcholine. supplemental choline is cheaper, safer, and depending on what form of choline you're using, offers more to gain from chronic use.

and as Irish MD said, combining choline with AChEIs is dangerous.


I'm 20 years old and am not currently taking choline. I have found that CDP-Choline and Alpha-GPC do almost nothing for me and have intolerable side effects, whereas Choline Bitartrate, while tolerable has some benefit but far less so than Huperzine A. I haven't the slightest clue why Huperzine A makes such a profound difference - more so than virtually every other supplement I have tried recently. If what you say is true, and my brain should have plenty of acetylcholine, than either my brain isn't functional in that regard or it simply functions better with more acetylcholine. It is possible that I am benefiting from Huperzine A's NMDA antagonism as opposed to its inhibition of acetylcholinesterase? I simply haven't noticed anything even approaching the cognitive clarity of Huperzine A from choline sources or piracetam, aniracetam, or oxiracetam which are cholinergics.

Edited by qwerty3, 04 November 2009 - 10:49 AM.

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#5 Johann

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 01:26 PM

Pike,
You said Galantamine is a dopamine agonist? I didn't know that.

Also,

and as Irish MD said, combining choline with AChEIs is dangerous

Irish MD didn't say it was dangerous, He just advised not to do it. I take Galantamine 4MG/day with choline and Aniracetam. What
bad side effects can happen?

#6 Pike

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 01:43 PM

Pike,
You said Galantamine is a dopamine agonist? I didn't know that.

Also,

and as Irish MD said, combining choline with AChEIs is dangerous

Irish MD didn't say it was dangerous, He just advised not to do it. I take Galantamine 4MG/day with choline and Aniracetam. What
bad side effects can happen?



well, i meant his reference to saying that choline should not be taken with AChEIs.

combining the two could leave you with too much acetylcholine, which can lead to major depression. if you want to see what too much ACh is like, look for the guy here who is now in suicidal depression from his stack.
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#7 Johann

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:13 PM

What I'm beginning to wonder is if ACh is antagonistic
to DA? And possibly vice versa. This would explain the depression caused by too much ACh and loss of recall by
too much DA (from wellbutrin).

#8 Dorho

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:09 PM

What I'm beginning to wonder is if ACh is antagonistic
to DA? And possibly vice versa. This would explain the depression caused by too much ACh and loss of recall by
too much DA (from wellbutrin).

Yeah, I've thought about that too. I found a study named "Meaningful silences: how dopamine listens to the ACh pause" from Google and there's an interesting part in the abstract: "An antagonistic balance between dopamine (DA) and ACh is well known to regulate postsynaptic signal integration in the striatum." I wonder if there are MDs in this forum who could explain what exactly that sentence means and what is it's significance.

Edited by Dorho, 04 November 2009 - 04:21 PM.


#9 Pike

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:54 PM

What I'm beginning to wonder is if ACh is antagonistic
to DA? And possibly vice versa. This would explain the depression caused by too much ACh and loss of recall by
too much DA (from wellbutrin).

Yeah, I've thought about that too. I found a study named "Meaningful silences: how dopamine listens to the ACh pause" from Google and there's an interesting part in the abstract: "An antagonistic balance between dopamine (DA) and ACh is well known to regulate postsynaptic signal integration in the striatum." I wonder if there are MDs in this forum who could explain what exactly that sentence means and what is it's significance.


well, i may not be a MD, but i am in college studying for a cog-neurosci major.

generally speaking, we have a kind of seesaw relationship with our dopamine and acetylcholine. serotonin also has some inhibitory effects on acetylcholine, too.

#10 X_Danny_X

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 05:32 PM

so it is not wise to take Huperzine A with racetams such as piracetam, aniracetam, or oxiracetam

#11 Metacognition

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 07:48 PM

I've tried both huperzine A and Glantamind (which is galantamine, choline and b5).

Huperzine A did initially give me some side effects, but no longer does. The only reason I've stopped taking is it because I think I might be over stimulating my cholinergic side.

Glantamind didn't give me any side effects, but as you said it is pretty expensive. Effects wise glantamind was probably marginally better than huperzine A.

I mostly used glantamind for lucid dreams, which it did seem to help induce especially when taking 8mg.

#12 Dorho

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:04 PM

so it is not wise to take Huperzine A with racetams such as piracetam, aniracetam, or oxiracetam

Well that's the safe choice. But IIRC, someone said that evey nootropic stack should start with piracetam and huperzine. Might remember wrong though. Anyway, we all have unique brain chemistries and a nootropic combination that could cause someone a depression might be of great benefit to someone else. It's all very complicated.

#13 matthias7

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 04:29 PM

Thought I'd dig up this old thread for the rest of the forum.

Its a good thread.

#14 425runner

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 09:32 PM

I would like to know as well. Recently bought a bottle of pure Galantamine capsules 8mg each to enhance memory. With finals coming up I could use any help available....


Thought I'd dig up this old thread for the rest of the forum.

Its a good thread.



#15 Pike

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:23 AM

so it is not wise to take Huperzine A with racetams such as piracetam, aniracetam, or oxiracetam

Well that's the safe choice. But IIRC, someone said that evey nootropic stack should start with piracetam and huperzine. Might remember wrong though. Anyway, we all have unique brain chemistries and a nootropic combination that could cause someone a depression might be of great benefit to someone else. It's all very complicated.


that someone is giving some rather misguided advice.

a good nootropic stack doesn't need piracetam and especially not huperzine. in fact, a good nootropic stack doesn't even have to carry cholinergics. a good nootropic stack may not even carry anything listed on the nootropic-wiki article. hell, consistent fish-oil or even consistent zinc could be considered a nootropic for some. IMO, AChEIs are for the middle-aged and up. it's also IMO that one shouldn't take any nootropic unless they've done the research necessary to understand what kind of side effects these nootropic drugs, like piracetam, carry.

everyone has a personal opinion about what makes a good nootropic stack. i'd like to think a good one would start with healthy diet, healthy sleep, regular exercise+strength training and daily reading. but my opinion might not work for some.

when advice like that shows up on this board without an "in my opinion" or something of that nature nearby it, take it with a grain of salt. otherwise, you could be following advice that is potentially dangerous.
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#16 Johann

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 04:48 PM

I've done Aniracetam, Choline Bitartrate and Galantamine daily for about three months
and it has helped in the memorization and conceptualization areas. Sometimes the effects
are a bit over stimulating though.

#17 425runner

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 09:53 PM

Thanks, Johann. Your post answered all my questions. :-D I'm taking the same stack, Alpha GPC being the choline source.


I've done Aniracetam, Choline Bitartrate and Galantamine daily for about three months
and it has helped in the memorization and conceptualization areas. Sometimes the effects
are a bit over stimulating though.


Edited by 425runner, 30 November 2009 - 09:55 PM.


#18 synapse

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:28 PM

Galantamine does have the additional action on nicotinic receptors compared to Huperzine A.

There seems to be some ongoing debate on whether Galantamine and/or Huperzine A should be taken with a choline source. Some find the combination highly synergistic while others claim that the combo introduces too much acetylcholine.

A fairly recent study published on PubMed explores combining Galantamine with Alpha GPC and suggests that the combination is more potent than if either were taken alone.

J Neurol Sci. 2009 Aug 15;283(1-2):187-94. Epub 2009 Mar 21.

Neuroprotective effect of treatment with galantamine and choline alphoscerate on brain microanatomy in spontaneously hypertensive rats.

Tayebati SK, Di Tullio MA, Tomassoni D, Amenta F.

Section of Human Anatomy, Department of Experimental Medicine and Public Health, University of Camerino, Camerino, Italy. khosrow.tayebati@unicam.it

The present study was designed to assess if treatment with acetylcholinesterase inhibitor galantamine and the cholinergic precursor choline alphoscerate (alpha-glyceryl-phosphoryl-choline) alone or in association has any protective effect on brain microanatomy in spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHR) used as an animal model of vascular dementia (VaD). Thirty-two-week-old SHR and age-matched normotensive Wistar Kyoto (WKY) rats were left untreated or treated for 4 weeks with an oral dose of 3 mg/kg/day of galantamine, of 100 mg/kg/day of choline alphoscerate or their association. The number of neurons and of glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) immunoreactive astrocytes, phosphorylated neurofilament, and microtubule associated protein-2 (MAP-2) and aquaporin-4 (AQP-4) was assessed by quantitative microanatomical and immunohistochemical techniques. In SHR, the number of neurons of frontal cortex, of the CA1 subfield of hippocampus and of dentate gyrus was decreased compared to WKY rats. Astrogliosis, breakdown of phosphorylated neurofilament, unchanged MAP-2 and altered AQP-4 expression were found as well. Both galantamine and choline alphoscerate countered nerve cell loss. Choline alphoscerate but not galantamine decreased astrogliosis and restored expression of AQ-4. Galantamine countered to a greater extent than choline alphoscerate phosphorylated neurofilament breakdown. The two drugs in association displayed a more remarkable effect. This study confirms a neuroprotective effect of galantamine in SHR and indicates a neuroprotective role of choline alphoscerate in the same model. A wider neuroprotective effect of the cholinergic inhibitor/precursor association was observed. These findings suggest to assess the activity of this cholinergic association in clinical trials.

PMID: 19304299 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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#19 FocusPocus

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 02:57 AM

Do both galantamine and huperzine increase norepinephrine levels at the Prefrontal cortex?

 

Im getting increased anxiety from galantamine (esp when combined with stimulants).

 

Wondering if Huperzine might be any different?






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