36 replies to this topic

[Lascap]

Hi everyone,

I hope you can put this in perspective for me. I have an extreme sensitivity to Pseudoephedrine (think Advil Cold & Sinus). Now, I understand this is not supposed to happen, but even small doses (e.g. 1/4 of a pill, ~7.5 mg) make me feel extremely good (to the point of euphoria), give me lots of energy and productivity and also lots of ideas (creativity). This effect is unlikely to be a placebo effect - it took me completely by surprise a couple of years ago when taking Advil Cold & Sinus for a cold. I have since isolated the effective component as Pseudoephedrine. Sadly, there is a dark side. After stopping to take it, there is a huge hangover. Depression-like sadness, no energy, no ideas. This can last for days.
Now, I understand none of this is supposed to happen. Does anyone have any insight as to what neurotransmitter system could be involved? Or what idiosyncracies my physiology (sensitivities) might have to produce this effect?
Personally, I am at a loss. Any hint is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[LabRat84]

Hi everyone,

I hope you can put this in perspective for me. I have an extreme sensitivity to Pseudoephedrine (think Advil Cold & Sinus). Now, I understand this is not supposed to happen, but even small doses (e.g. 1/4 of a pill, ~7.5 mg) make me feel extremely good (to the point of euphoria), give me lots of energy and productivity and also lots of ideas (creativity). This effect is unlikely to be a placebo effect - it took me completely by surprise a couple of years ago when taking Advil Cold & Sinus for a cold. I have since isolated the effective component as Pseudoephedrine. Sadly, there is a dark side. After stopping to take it, there is a huge hangover. Depression-like sadness, no energy, no ideas. This can last for days.
Now, I understand none of this is supposed to happen. Does anyone have any insight as to what neurotransmitter system could be involved? Or what idiosyncracies my physiology (sensitivities) might have to produce this effect?
Personally, I am at a loss. Any hint is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Have you had any experience with amphetamines (Adderall, or others), ephedrine (still available in Bronchaid), or (if you want to share), cocaine, MDMA, or meth? PM me if you want to keep it private.

It sounds like you're rapidly releasing, and depleting, all your catecholamines; I'd recommend supplementing with L-Tyrosine and/or L-Dopa and see what that does. Your unique chemistry might help answer some questions.

Also, if I may ask, what does it do to your sex drive? (Feel free to PM also).

Edited by LabRat84, 05 April 2010 - 04:36 PM.

[Lascap]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, labrat.

I'll answer here, as I have nothing to hide and I would like to get the perspective of others, as well.

Never did anything illegal, but interestingly, a psychiatrist who I consulted for low energy after long-term (~1 month) taking the pseudoephedrine (in order to complete an extended work project) did prescribe some Adderall. The effects were... interesting. At first, the effects were phenomenal. I felt like on fire after 30 minutes. The effect lasted over a day. Couldn't sleep, either. And that was on the lowest dose (Adderall XR, 5 mg). I had to discontinue after a couple of days, as I felt rather manic on it. Plus, my spelling got a lot worse (bizarre effect, but very real).

Discontinuing it was horrible. Hangover like after the pseudoephedrine, but even worse. Sleeping for 12+ hours a day, still being tired. No energy. Self-loathing, etc.

Interesting, now, if I take even a couple of granules from within the Adderall capsule (effective dose must be on the order of 0.1 mg), I still have a profound effect. So these days, I stay clear of it altogether. Still have almost the entire bottle left.

Sex drive is somewhat low. I'm not sure how that is related, though.

Regarding L-Dopa/Tyrosine: I tried L-Dopa before, but it had no appreciable effect.
I also tried Tyrosine, and the effect was rather interesting. I used the LEF powder form. In the first couple of days, I felt energized, but not in a bad way. After that, any Tyrosine would render me extremely agitated and anxious. I can't even stand 500 mg of DLPA (most of which is not metabolized into Tyrosine, as far as I understand).

I did have a recent "Neuroscience labs" test for cats. But I'm not sure how good that is at detecting neural catecholamine levels. It was a urine based test. The dopamine levels were off the charts whereas the norepinephrine levels were under normal and the epinephrine levels were very low.

Does any of this make sense/ring a bell?

Hi everyone,

I hope you can put this in perspective for me. I have an extreme sensitivity to Pseudoephedrine (think Advil Cold & Sinus). Now, I understand this is not supposed to happen, but even small doses (e.g. 1/4 of a pill, ~7.5 mg) make me feel extremely good (to the point of euphoria), give me lots of energy and productivity and also lots of ideas (creativity). This effect is unlikely to be a placebo effect - it took me completely by surprise a couple of years ago when taking Advil Cold & Sinus for a cold. I have since isolated the effective component as Pseudoephedrine. Sadly, there is a dark side. After stopping to take it, there is a huge hangover. Depression-like sadness, no energy, no ideas. This can last for days.
Now, I understand none of this is supposed to happen. Does anyone have any insight as to what neurotransmitter system could be involved? Or what idiosyncracies my physiology (sensitivities) might have to produce this effect?
Personally, I am at a loss. Any hint is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Have you had any experience with amphetamines (Adderall, or others), ephedrine (still available in Bronchaid), or (if you want to share), cocaine, MDMA, or meth? PM me if you want to keep it private.

It sounds like you're rapidly releasing, and depleting, all your catecholamines; I'd recommend supplementing with L-Tyrosine and/or L-Dopa and see what that does. Your unique chemistry might help answer some questions.

Also, if I may ask, what does it do to your sex drive? (Feel free to PM also).

[LabRat84]

Yeah, it's actually starting to make sense. I'm going to ask several more questions.

What did pseudoephedrine and/or adderall do to your blood pressure?

(I'm assuming you're a guy) - did it have any effect on your erectile function? Do you not wake up with "morning wood" after taking pseudoephedrine and/or adderall? How about orgasm intensity and ejaculation volume (if you can get it up in the first place)?

Does anything happen when you drink diet soft drinks? Have you ever noticed a difference between Diet Coke/Diet Pepsi and Coke Zero/Pepsi One?

Have you ever tried PEA?

What sort of state were you in when you checked your urine levels?

Also, have you tried any antidepressants?

Did you report your (hypo)mania to your doc, and what did he/she do in response?

Do you have a taste for aged meats and cheeses, liver, dark beer, and/or red wine? Do you have any kind of reaction do those foods/drinks?

How long has it been since you last took Tyrosine? How much L-Dopa did you take, and in what form?

Do you suffer from orthostatic hypotension (getting dizzy when standing up)?

Did you develop any kind of tolerance to pseudoephedrine when you were taking it for a month? (Did you have to increase your dose to get the same effect?)

Have you ever had your thyroid levels checked, notably total or free T3?

Thanks for your thoughtful response, labrat.

I'll answer here, as I have nothing to hide and I would like to get the perspective of others, as well.

Never did anything illegal, but interestingly, a psychiatrist who I consulted for low energy after long-term (~1 month) taking the pseudoephedrine (in order to complete an extended work project) did prescribe some Adderall. The effects were... interesting. At first, the effects were phenomenal. I felt like on fire after 30 minutes. The effect lasted over a day. Couldn't sleep, either. And that was on the lowest dose (Adderall XR, 5 mg). I had to discontinue after a couple of days, as I felt rather manic on it. Plus, my spelling got a lot worse (bizarre effect, but very real).

Discontinuing it was horrible. Hangover like after the pseudoephedrine, but even worse. Sleeping for 12+ hours a day, still being tired. No energy. Self-loathing, etc.

Interesting, now, if I take even a couple of granules from within the Adderall capsule (effective dose must be on the order of 0.1 mg), I still have a profound effect. So these days, I stay clear of it altogether. Still have almost the entire bottle left.

Sex drive is somewhat low. I'm not sure how that is related, though.

Regarding L-Dopa/Tyrosine: I tried L-Dopa before, but it had no appreciable effect.
I also tried Tyrosine, and the effect was rather interesting. I used the LEF powder form. In the first couple of days, I felt energized, but not in a bad way. After that, any Tyrosine would render me extremely agitated and anxious. I can't even stand 500 mg of DLPA (most of which is not metabolized into Tyrosine, as far as I understand).

I did have a recent "Neuroscience labs" test for cats. But I'm not sure how good that is at detecting neural catecholamine levels. It was a urine based test. The dopamine levels were off the charts whereas the norepinephrine levels were under normal and the epinephrine levels were very low.

Does any of this make sense/ring a bell?

Hi everyone,

I hope you can put this in perspective for me. I have an extreme sensitivity to Pseudoephedrine (think Advil Cold & Sinus). Now, I understand this is not supposed to happen, but even small doses (e.g. 1/4 of a pill, ~7.5 mg) make me feel extremely good (to the point of euphoria), give me lots of energy and productivity and also lots of ideas (creativity). This effect is unlikely to be a placebo effect - it took me completely by surprise a couple of years ago when taking Advil Cold & Sinus for a cold. I have since isolated the effective component as Pseudoephedrine. Sadly, there is a dark side. After stopping to take it, there is a huge hangover. Depression-like sadness, no energy, no ideas. This can last for days.
Now, I understand none of this is supposed to happen. Does anyone have any insight as to what neurotransmitter system could be involved? Or what idiosyncracies my physiology (sensitivities) might have to produce this effect?
Personally, I am at a loss. Any hint is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Have you had any experience with amphetamines (Adderall, or others), ephedrine (still available in Bronchaid), or (if you want to share), cocaine, MDMA, or meth? PM me if you want to keep it private.

It sounds like you're rapidly releasing, and depleting, all your catecholamines; I'd recommend supplementing with L-Tyrosine and/or L-Dopa and see what that does. Your unique chemistry might help answer some questions.

Also, if I may ask, what does it do to your sex drive? (Feel free to PM also).

[smt]

I really question the sanity of the psychiatrist who prescribed you Adderall after you showed that kind of response to psuedoephedrine.

@OP, my best guess is that you have some sort of deficiency of dopamine beta hydroxylase (dopamine->norepinephrine) or phenylethanolamine n-methyltransferase (norepinephrine->epinephrine).

[LabRat84]

Two more questions:
Do you eat a lot when you're depressed/"hung over"?
Do you lose weight quickly on adderall, pseudoephedrine?

[Lascap]

Thanks much for all the feedback. Here goes:

>>What did pseudoephedrine and/or adderall do to your blood pressure?

Don't know. Unfortunately, I don't own a blood pressure meter. Just ordered one. Best way to find out is to experiment with it. In absence of stimulants my BP is close to 120/80, with a resting HR of about ~70. As measured at annual checkups.


>>(I'm assuming you're a guy) - did it have any effect on your erectile function? Do you not wake up with "morning wood" after taking pseudoephedrine and/or adderall? How about orgasm intensity and ejaculation volume (if you can get it up in the first place)?

Yes, guy here. As far as I can tell, no significant issue with erectile function (good or bad). As I'm not currently taking either, it is hard to tell. I don't remember there to be any issue.


>>Does anything happen when you drink diet soft drinks? Have you ever noticed a difference between Diet Coke/Diet Pepsi and Coke Zero/Pepsi One?

Yes. Similar effects, actually. I get extremely agitated. That's why I quit all soft drinks and avoid caffeine generally. Just drink straight water. In all fairness, I drank almost exclusively Diet Coke, never really tried one of the others (other than the odd one).


>>Have you ever tried PEA?

Nope, what's that?


>>What sort of state were you in when you checked your urine levels?

That was a couple of months after discontinuing the Tyrosine. And a year after quitting stimulants.


>>Also, have you tried any antidepressants?

Yes, which brings me to the point why I want the stimulants to begin with. Since about 15 years, I have experienced a distinct anhedonia, lack of zest for life, lack of motivation, lack of interest. In my line of work, this is untenable. In the beginning, I just thought that's how things are (particularly the anhedonia), but I refuse to live like this any more. And hence the stimulants. Of course, they made things worse, much worse, in the long run. Due to the hangovers. I don't know what is going on. Something might be getting depleted, or something might be downregulated? I don't know.
Regarding the antidepressants:
In 2003, I was on some Wellbutrin. Don't remember the dose, but it was probably a standard beginning dose. What I do remember is that the effects kicked in within hours. Extreme euphoria, mania (in a good way) and complete lack of tiredness or need for sleep for several days. In the end, I had to quit after a couple of months because it was messing with my memory. Before, my memory was essentially perfect (borderline photographic), but afterwards, I became a complete space cadet. Both in terms of long- and short-term memory. Not sustainable in my line of work, either.
In late 2009, I briefly went on Lexapro. Interestingly enough, the effect (euphoria) kicked in also within a few hours. And that at a very low dose (I took a fourth of the lowest available dose by breaking the tablet). So the effects were dramatic, but also not sustainable. After a couple of weeks, I had to stop. My affect had completely flattened, and so had my thought. No more thoughts of any kind, no creativity, etc. Like a wave of nothingness.
In early 2010, I tried Selegiline, the EMSAM patch. Similar story. As little as 1 mg (I admit it, I cut the patch) was effective within about 30 minutes. Euphoria, mania (in a good way) and complete lack of the need for sleep to the point of severe insomnia (I usually sleep like a rock, so this is unusual). All aspects of insomnia: Falling asleep late, waking up frequently, waking up early. Very unusual. Another problem was that if I don't wear the patch for a day, a severe morosity would return, kind of like in the pseudoephedrine hangover/withdrawal. This makes me suspect that I don't actually respond to the MAOI-B (much), but rather to the amphetamine and metamphetamine metabolites.
Haven't tried anything else. Kind of discouraged.

Did you report your (hypo)mania to your doc, and what did he/she do in response?

>> See above. Antidepressants. Also, for a while, Modafinil. That had a similar effect - euphoria, feeling good/sharp, being able to work a lot, needing only a little sleep. On a dose as little as 25 mg. But it was also not sustainable. I would get these hangovers where I would sleep for days on end, and my cognitive functions would also take a hit - being able to think less well, in the long run. Of course there are confounds with lack of sleep. But Modafinil also had a dramatic effect.

Do you have a taste for aged meats and cheeses, liver, dark beer, and/or red wine? Do you have any kind of reaction do those foods/drinks?

>> Hard to tell. I don't drink any alcohol, and as far as I know, I also don't eat any aged meats and cheeses. What would be an example of an aged meat or cheese? Never ate liver.


How long has it been since you last took Tyrosine? How much L-Dopa did you take, and in what form?

>> Tyrosine: It has now been close to 6 months. L-Dopa: From Cognitive Nutrition, capsules, 1 capsule at 250 mg, one a day. For a while. No appreciable effect. I also tried Rhodiola and Ginseng for a while. Too strong. Made me all agitated and anxious. Not sure, why. I was kind of taken aback by the effect.


>> Do you suffer from orthostatic hypotension (getting dizzy when standing up)?

Sometimes, yes!


>>Did you develop any kind of tolerance to pseudoephedrine when you were taking it for a month? (Did you have to increase your dose to get the same effect?)

A little bit, but not much. It kind of retained it's effectiveness.


>>Have you ever had your thyroid levels checked, notably total or free T3?

Yep. T3 unremarkable. I think it was a 1. Don't remember the units, but it was the appropriate units.


>> Do you eat a lot when you're depressed/"hung over"?

Not really.


Do you lose weight quickly on adderall, pseudoephedrine?

>> Hard to tell, as I was not on adderall long enough, and didn't pay attention to it when on pseudoephedrine. But I would say, yes. In general, I lose weight easily. I just had my RMR tested by a professional today. Fast metabolism: 2025 calories at rest.

Thanks!

P.S.: Agreed on the psychiatrist and the Adderall, but I guess he thought I just need something with a little more oomph.

[Animal]

Seems like a classical case of bipolar II disorder to me, if you had actually reported your manic episodes in reaction to the antidepressants then no responsible doctor would have continued to prescribe them to you without a mood stabiliser. These 'hangovers' sound like a symptom of rapid cycling, which would be the typical bipolar response to antidepressants or other mood enhancing substances. They should not make you euphoric, that is not a healthy response to antidepressants, euphoria cannot be sustained and leads to further mood instability.

Every manic episode will have deleterious effects on your brain, particularly in the hippocampus, you need to be careful experimenting with these substances. Obviously you should be talking to a psychiatrist about this, and if you tell them exactly what you've told us I expect any competent specialist will come to the same conclusion I have.

[LabRat84]

Seems like a classical case of bipolar II disorder to me, if you had actually reported your manic episodes in reaction to the antidepressants then no responsible doctor would have continued to prescribe them to you without a mood stabiliser. These 'hangovers' sound like a symptom of rapid cycling, which would be the typical bipolar response to antidepressants or other mood enhancing substances. They should not make you euphoric, that is not a healthy response to antidepressants, euphoria cannot be sustained and leads to further mood instability.

Every manic episode will have deleterious effects on your brain, particularly in the hippocampus, you need to be careful experimenting with these substances. Obviously you should be talking to a psychiatrist about this, and if you tell them exactly what you've told us I expect any competent specialist will come to the same conclusion I have.

A diagnosis of Bipolar II is wrong for two reasons: 1) He has been manic, not just hypomanic, and 2) the mania and hypomania were caused by drugs.
Here are the DSM criteria:

Diagnostic criteria for 296.89 Bipolar II Disorder

Presence (or history) of one or more Major Depressive Episodes (see Criteria for Major Depressive Episode).
Presence (or history) of at least one Hypomanic Episode (see Criteria for Hypomanic Episode).
There has never been a Manic Episode (see Criteria for Manic Episode) or a Mixed Episode (see Criteria for Mixed Episode).
The mood symptoms in Criteria A and B are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and are not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

Criteria for Hypomanic Episode

A distinct period of persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least 4 days, that is clearly different from the usual nondepressed mood.
During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
The episode is associated with an unequivocal change in functioning that is uncharacteristic of the person when not symptomatic.
The disturbance in mood and the change in functioning are observable by others.
The episode is not severe enough to cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning, or to necessitate hospitalization, and there are no psychotic features.
The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).

Note: Hypomanic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar II Disorder.

And he wouldn't even qualify for Bipolar I:

Criteria for Manic Episode

A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting at least 1 week (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary).
During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (see Criteria for Mixed Episode).
The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features.
The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
Note: Manic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar I Disorder.

My psychiatrist told me, "I treat symptoms, not pathways." Lascap clearly has some interesting pathway stuff going on.

[LabRat84]

>>Have you ever tried PEA?

Nope, what's that?

Phenylethylamine.

Since about 15 years, I have experienced a distinct anhedonia, lack of zest for life, lack of motivation, lack of interest. In my line of work, this is untenable. In the beginning, I just thought that's how things are (particularly the anhedonia), but I refuse to live like this any more. And hence the stimulants. Of course, they made things worse, much worse, in the long run. Due to the hangovers. I don't know what is going on. Something might be getting depleted, or something might be downregulated? I don't know.
Regarding the antidepressants:
In 2003, I was on some Wellbutrin. Don't remember the dose, but it was probably a standard beginning dose. What I do remember is that the effects kicked in within hours. Extreme euphoria, mania (in a good way) and complete lack of tiredness or need for sleep for several days. In the end, I had to quit after a couple of months because it was messing with my memory. Before, my memory was essentially perfect (borderline photographic), but afterwards, I became a complete space cadet. Both in terms of long- and short-term memory. Not sustainable in my line of work, either.
In late 2009, I briefly went on Lexapro. Interestingly enough, the effect (euphoria) kicked in also within a few hours. And that at a very low dose (I took a fourth of the lowest available dose by breaking the tablet). So the effects were dramatic, but also not sustainable. After a couple of weeks, I had to stop. My affect had completely flattened, and so had my thought. No more thoughts of any kind, no creativity, etc. Like a wave of nothingness.

Was your "euphoria" with Lexapro similar or different than the one you get from stimulants?

>>Do you have a taste for aged meats and cheeses, liver, dark beer, and/or red wine? Do you have any kind of reaction do those foods/drinks?

Hard to tell. I don't drink any alcohol, and as far as I know, I also don't eat any aged meats and cheeses. What would be an example of an aged meat or cheese? Never ate liver.

An aged meat would be a dried salami (pork or beef) or some kinds of steaks. Aged cheeses are things like Parmesan and Romano, and basically any hard cheese. Basically I'm asking if you have a reaction to any foods containing tyramine.

Have you ever drunk alcohol? What are its effects on you?

Have you had caffeine by itself, or in a beverage without artificial sweetener? Like regular Coke, or coffee?

Does anything else besides Tyrosine and the herbs you mentioned make you agitated and anxious?

I'm not quite ready to make a claim about what's going on, but I'm getting there. (disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, and what I write should not be interpreted as medical advice.) You should seek out a psychiatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology.

One thing I will say, though, is that it's depletion, not downregulation. If you were downregulating, you'd develop a tolerance. (Your "tolerance" to Lexapro proabably came from depletion of serotonin). Also, your sensitivity to indirectly acting neurotransmitter modulators, but not to direct precursors (L-Dopa, Tyrosine) points toward depletion. Your positive response to tyrosine probably came from replenishing dopamine.

[Lascap]

Again, thanks everyone for the terrific input.

I would also disagree with the Bipolar diagnosis. These things don't happen spontaneously, only when induced by chemicals. Also, the "manic" episodes are not really mania in a bad way. As in I never did anything crazy during these periods. Just felt really well, got a lot done, didn't need to sleep and had a lot of grandiose (but not crazy) ideas.

Before I forget: I also had an interesting experience with Vitamin B. After the Adderall disaster, I looked into "actual" energy, and hit on B-Vitamins. So I took a couple of B-100-complex and felt radically different (better) pretty much immediately. So there can be little doubt that I was deficient before. I kept taking at least 100 B-complex for a couple of months, and I think it did help. Now, I can't stand it. As in if I take it, it makes me rather agitated, anxious and "negative" or hostile (if that makes sense). Rather curious, as they are supposed to be water-soluble. Not sure what is happening.

But to address your points:

Re Psychiatrists: I have talked to quite a few of them over the years. I'm afraid I am not as confident about their ability to figure out what is going on any more. At least, I have not found anyone who could tell me something that I didn't already know or did/prescribed something that turned out to be less than helpful). What do you mean with havoc on the hippocampus? Permanent damage due to neurotoxicity? What kind of mechanisms do you have in mind? Also, keep in mind that the hippocampus is one of the only regions with active and ongoing neurogenesis.

Re interesting pathways: That's an interesting way of thinking about it. As I mentioned, even before I started to take the first Advil Cold & Sinus (about 10 years ago), I had some distinct anhedonia combined with extreme creativity going on. Ideas would just "come to me", but not in a schizophrenic way (as in the ideas were actually good, coherent and helpful). But it was effortless. Which actually helped a lot with science and academia, which is what I do.

Re Phenylethylamine: Thanks. Just ordered some. Seems to be marketed as a diet pill by some. I don't want to read up on it, in order not to bias (placebo) my response.

Re Lexapro: No, the Lexapro-induced euphoria was definitely different. But I'm not sure if I can put a finger on it. I'm afraid our everyday language is not precise enough to characterize this mood-space adequately.

Re aged meats et al.: Salami and steak: No noticable reaction. Don't eat hard cheeses, so I guess the answer would be no. But I'm willing to experiment. I definitely don't eat any of that in quantities large enough to predict a large response.

Re alcohol: Yes, a long time ago. Has a dramatic effect. Severe (social) disinhibition and feeling "good" even after very low doses (e.g. half a beer). Come to think of it, I'm not sure what is going on with these extreme reactions to very small stimulus quantities. Seems consistent across the board. I know this is not supposed to happen, but it is the god's honest truth. Really. In any case, I don't drink because I like to be in control of my mind and because I don't want to gamble with neurotoxicity. It does feel rather good.

Re caffeine: Yes, in coffee and caffeine pills. Pretty much the same effect. As in drastic.

Re anxious: The Vitamin B, now. But it didn't before. Same thing with the Tyrosine. At first good, now it does. Too much?

Re disclaimer: Understood. I do tremendously appreciate your input.

Re depletion vs. tolerance: Yes, that is also my hunch, but it doesn't make sense. Why would I rapidly release all dopamine and norepinephrine (presumably), but not make more? Why would the synthesis not keep up? Are there ways to boost dopamine synthesis? The tyrosine should not have done anything. It is not the rate-limiting step, is it?

So what is the model? Rapid conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine (leaving a deficit of Dopamine), and a even more rapid release of norepinephrine if given a stimulant?

[LabRat84]

Re depletion vs. tolerance: Yes, that is also my hunch, but it doesn't make sense. Why would I rapidly release all dopamine and norepinephrine (presumably), but not make more? Why would the synthesis not keep up? Are there ways to boost dopamine synthesis? The tyrosine should not have done anything. It is not the rate-limiting step, is it?

So what is the model? Rapid conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine (leaving a deficit of Dopamine), and a even more rapid release of norepinephrine if given a stimulant?

My model is leaning toward more dopaminergic effects than NE, and definitely central as opposed to peripheral. Your synthesis of dopamine (and sensitivity to it) is keeping up as long as you're taking stimulants, but then you run out - and replenish very, very slowly. Tyrosine could be doing one of a few things, and I don't want to say what just yet. (Sorry, board: the answer will come soon enough).

It sounds like you have four states of interest here. Dopamine is the main NT involved, but others may be as well. DA itself can stimulate adrenergic receptors at high levels, so NE may not even be involved at all. Normal erectile function (pun intended) points toward normal adrenergic function.

1) "Normal": slow dopamine synthesis and low levels but high sensitivity and excellent selectivity - depression and anhedonia but excellent cognitive function by PPI, discrimination, whatever mechanism involved (TBD)
2) "Stimulated": high dopamine synthesis and elevated levels, sustained sensitivity: hypomania, but loss of cognitive ability due to dysregulation of neuronal circuits
3) "Hung over": completely depleted dopamine: low energy levels, poor cognitive function.
4) "Agitated" - this is a very interesting one; don't have enough info to figure this out yet.

As for the mechanism, I'll work on that with you.

BTW, the urine test will tell you nothing about brain catecholamine levels; the catecholamines don't cross the blood-brain barrier. The results for NE and E could be the opposite of the brain's level, resulting from compensatory mechanisms on the HPA axis. (It's very unlikely you have a breakdown of the BBB.)

Edited by LabRat84, 07 April 2010 - 02:33 AM.

[Lascap]

Cool. What you are saying makes a lot of sense.

For me, this raises the issue on how to increase the rate of dopamine synthesis. Or are you suggesting that the synthesis rate is low *because* it matches the excellent sensitivity?

Also, one fly in the ointment (and why I discounted dopamine initially) is that pseudoephedrine supposedly releases/depletes NE, not D. No? That's what got me started on the hypothesis that NE is involved (and the feeling of dead-tiredness afterwards).

I agree that the urine tests might be a red herring. Alas, as far as I know, there is no way (yet) to directly test for brain catecholamine levels, no?

Anyway. Amazing stuff! Thanks so much.

Re depletion vs. tolerance: Yes, that is also my hunch, but it doesn't make sense. Why would I rapidly release all dopamine and norepinephrine (presumably), but not make more? Why would the synthesis not keep up? Are there ways to boost dopamine synthesis? The tyrosine should not have done anything. It is not the rate-limiting step, is it?

So what is the model? Rapid conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine (leaving a deficit of Dopamine), and a even more rapid release of norepinephrine if given a stimulant?

My model is leaning toward more dopaminergic effects than NE, and definitely central as opposed to peripheral. Your synthesis of dopamine (and sensitivity to it) is keeping up as long as you're taking stimulants, but then you run out - and replenish very, very slowly. Tyrosine could be doing one of a few things, and I don't want to say what just yet. (Sorry, board: the answer will come soon enough).

It sounds like you have four states of interest here. Dopamine is the main NT involved, but others may be as well. DA itself can stimulate adrenergic receptors at high levels, so NE may not even be involved at all. Normal erectile function (pun intended) points toward normal adrenergic function.

1) "Normal": slow dopamine synthesis and low levels but high sensitivity and excellent selectivity - depression and anhedonia but excellent cognitive function by PPI, discrimination, whatever mechanism involved (TBD)
2) "Stimulated": high dopamine synthesis and elevated levels, sustained sensitivity: hypomania, but loss of cognitive ability due to dysregulation of neuronal circuits
3) "Hung over": completely depleted dopamine: low energy levels, poor cognitive function.
4) "Agitated" - this is a very interesting one; don't have enough info to figure this out yet.

As for the mechanism, I'll work on that with you.

BTW, the urine test will tell you nothing about brain catecholamine levels; the catecholamines don't cross the blood-brain barrier. The results for NE and E could be the opposite of the brain's level, resulting from compensatory mechanisms on the HPA axis. (It's very unlikely you have a breakdown of the BBB.)

[Lascap]

One more thing, before I forget (it might be relevant).

>50% of sleep in any given night is REM sleep (as measured by ZEO). This closely matches my introspective dream experience. Also, ZEO reports do closely correlate with the Rechtschaffen-Kales scored sleep recordings one obtains in a sleep lab (surprisingly so, actually - given that it is based on a single sensor). What is striking is that this is even the case for short nights (REM increases with sleep duration) of about 7 hours. This would be less surprising when sleeping very long (9 or 10 hours)

The problem is that I don't have a baseline. I started this ZEO stuff just a couple of months ago. In other words, I don't know how the system was before it was perhaps damaged by pseudoephedrine, caffeine, modafinil, adderall, and so on.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if this is entirely consistent with a depletion model. The high REM percentage happens every night (I measure every night), I haven't taken most of these stimulants for many months or years and even in cases where I did, we are actually talking about surprisingly small quantities. I never upped the dose of any of them (or never had to) to anything that wouldn't be described as "minimal".

[alpha2A]

Pseudoephedrine is primarily a noradrenaline-releasing agent, but I think it has a beta-adrenergic agonist action as well. It may be interesting to explore specific adrenergic agonists and antagonists:
* Salbutamol (Ventoline, also known as albuterol) would help evaluate your reaction to beta2-adrenergic stimulation
* Guanfacine would help elucidate your response to alpha2-adrenergic agonism.
* Doxazosin and prazosin are alpha1-antagonists.
* Beta blockers: propranolol and timolol block both beta1 and beta2; atenolol and metoprolol block only the beta1 receptor. There are many others.

The possible loss of cognitive function at high levels of stimulation may be due to excess dopamine D1 agonism or alpha1-adrenergic agonism. It would be interesting to see how various doses of especially guanfacine affects the problem.

Rasagiline may be an interesting option. It's a MAO-B inhibitor like selegiline, but lacks the amphetamine metabolites.

Low doses of sulpiride or amisulpride would help elucidate dopamine autoreceptor function. High doses would help determine the role of the postsynaptic dopamine D2/D3 receptors. It may be interesting to test the effects of various other antipsychotics as well.

Some of the above agents may help control insomnia. Clonidine and cyproheptadine may be interesting to explore for the same purpose.

Opiates suppress the noradrenergic locus coeruleus, and enhance the firing of dopamine projections to the pleasure/motivation centre nucleus accumbens. It would be interesting to know how you react to them.

In order to prepare very low doses of amphetamine, you can dissolve a capsule in a known quantity of water and dose with a pipette. This may be useful for many other drugs as well.

Neurotansmitter releasing agents, like the amphetamines and pseudoephedrine, if used in excess deplete neuronal storage vesicles of their neurotransmitter contents. A comparison with reuptake inhibitors would be interesting. Have you tried Ritalin?

[Animal]

A diagnosis of Bipolar II is wrong for two reasons: 1) He has been manic, not just hypomanic, and 2) the mania and hypomania were caused by drugs.
Here are the DSM criteria:

It's quote obvious he's not been manic, he might refer to it as mania but obviously it's not as he referred to being 'manic in a good way', someone who has experienced actual mania would never describe it as good. Therefore it's safe to assume the mania he referred to was hypomania, rather then true mania.

It's an indication, not a diagnosis, therefore it's irrelevant whether it was caused by medication if that medication is known for only causing manic episodes in those who have bipolar disorder. Hypomania is not a typical response to antidepressant treatment. I'm not claiming he should be diagnosed with it, that is why he should see a professional, only the behaviour and reactions he has described are indicative of bipolar II disorder.

There is no 'interesting pathway stuff' going on which defies explanation, what he describes is typical of the bipolar psyche.

Edited by Animal, 07 April 2010 - 01:11 PM.

[LabRat84]

It's quote obvious he's not been manic, he might refer to it as mania but obviously it's not as he referred to being 'manic in a good way', someone who has experienced actual mania would never describe it as good. Therefore it's safe to assume the mania he referred to was hypomania, rather then true mania.

It's an indication, not a diagnosis, therefore it's irrelevant whether it was caused by medication if that medication is known for only causing manic episodes in those who have bipolar disorder. Hypomania is not a typical response to antidepressant treatment. I'm not claiming he should be diagnosed with it, that is why he should see a professional, only the behaviour and reactions he has described are indicative of bipolar II disorder.

There is no 'interesting pathway stuff' going on which defies explanation, what he describes is typical of the bipolar psyche.

You're right: if his functioning was not impaired, it would not qualify as mania (even if he didn't need to sleep for days). But the lack of a hypomanic episode before antidepressants, and the extreme sensitivity to stimulants, is very interesting. We're talking very rapid cycling with a very specific triggers, and in tiny amounts. If we can figure out what's going on, it could help us understand the mechanisms behind "Bipolar II."

Hypomania can be a response to antidepressant treatment. It might be indicative of a bipolar-like state, but it doesn't have to be.

Edited by LabRat84, 07 April 2010 - 01:52 PM.

[Animal]

It's quote obvious he's not been manic, he might refer to it as mania but obviously it's not as he referred to being 'manic in a good way', someone who has experienced actual mania would never describe it as good. Therefore it's safe to assume the mania he referred to was hypomania, rather then true mania.

It's an indication, not a diagnosis, therefore it's irrelevant whether it was caused by medication if that medication is known for only causing manic episodes in those who have bipolar disorder. Hypomania is not a typical response to antidepressant treatment. I'm not claiming he should be diagnosed with it, that is why he should see a professional, only the behaviour and reactions he has described are indicative of bipolar II disorder.

There is no 'interesting pathway stuff' going on which defies explanation, what he describes is typical of the bipolar psyche.

You're right: if his functioning was not impaired, it would not qualify as mania (even if he didn't need to sleep for days). But the lack of a hypomanic episode before antidepressants, and the extreme sensitivity to stimulants, is very interesting. We're talking very rapid cycling with a very specific triggers, and in tiny amounts. If we can figure out what's going on, it could help us understand the mechanisms behind "Bipolar II."

Hypomania can be a response to antidepressant treatment. It might be indicative of a bipolar-like state, but it doesn't have to be.

Fair enough, it's at least bipolar-like, especially considering the negative symptoms since anhedonia is very common in the bipolar depressive state. But I agree that there could be some other physiological mechanism going on. The metabolic changes that a 'manic' brain undergoes while an episode is occurring are not fully understood, so the speculation in this thread cannot be outright refuted.

[Lascap]

Thanks again for your input. I agree that hypomanic probably characterizes it best. I have a problem describing mental states with these verbal labels/categories. I think they are much too coarse. But hypomanic seems to be the best fit, all told.

So what is the consensus?

What's wrong and what should I do?

[Mason Barge]

I have been diagnosed bipolar II and have a spectrum of other disorders such as social anxiety, agoraphobia, a touch of OCD. I have tried many dozens of drugs and was, as of two weeks ago, taking 4x50mg Zoloft, various amounts of Mirapex, and klonopin as needed.

I got hay fever and took some Sudafed (2x30mg pseudoephedrine). The results were miraculous. My only side effects are insomnia, which is actually not as bad as it was on Mirapex at higher dosage; mild hypomania; and weight loss!

My pdoc is actually a team in the Treatment-Resistant Depression department of Emory University. They were fascinated because the sudafed not only treated the chronic depression I have been experiencing, but radically lowered my agoraphobia and social anxiety!

They also gave me an ADHD screening, which was positive, and we discussed the poorly-understood relationship between ADHD and bipolar disorder. Despite a very high IQ, I have had a checkered academic record. I did manage to graduate from an Ivy League college and a decent law school, but my grades were not very good and my LSAT (800) would have indicated a much more selective law school. I did have periodic good grades alternating with bad ones.

The bottom line I wanted to share with you: My psychiatric team was fascinated at the phenomenon -- especially the reduction of anxiety -- and said that, as far as they were concerned, I could take pseudoephedrine for the rest of my life. Of course if I should develop high blood pressure (which is so far unaffected) or any sort of heart problems, or any dangerous degree of mania, we would have to re-evaluate. But from what I have read, pseudoephedrine is easier to tolerate than most stimulants prescribed for ADHD.

I'm now tapering off the Zoloft, which was ineffective, and then will taper off the Mirapex if all is well. The idea being to see whether the effect was from the sudafed alone, or a combinatory effect with the sertraline. The Mirapex was effective but had a lot of side effects.

I really hope this works out. I've put on a lot of weight, which is terrible for my heart and general health, partially due to the effects of various SSRI/MAOI/bipolar medications. The extra weight is pouring off and, even if there is some ill effect to my heart, I need to balance that against the ill effects of the obesity. I am also getting some significant exercise for the first time in over 10 years!

One of my doctors, who is in research, might do a case study, since this is the first treatment in 45 years of bipolar misery that has really truly helped me. I am praying that it continues to be effective and doesn't have deleterious side effects that make me discontinue it.

But anyway, I am taking 4x30mg pseudoephedrine daily (I weigh 255 pounds) with the blessing of a good psychiatric team, and so far it has been startlingly effective to treat on a wide range of mental problems, including Axis I diagnosis of bipolar II.

[Lascap]

Hi Mason,

it sounds like we have similar things going on here.

Good luck with the Sudafed and please keep me posted regarding what happens.

Like I said, I also had quite a miraculous time with it. Feeling much better, much more focused, and also creative. However, I eventually "run out of gas", then the hangover sets in.

Overall, my history sounds a lot like yours. We should keep in touch.

I have been diagnosed bipolar II and have a spectrum of other disorders such as social anxiety, agoraphobia, a touch of OCD. I have tried many dozens of drugs and was, as of two weeks ago, taking 4x50mg Zoloft, various amounts of Mirapex, and klonopin as needed.

I got hay fever and took some Sudafed (2x30mg pseudoephedrine). The results were miraculous. My only side effects are insomnia, which is actually not as bad as it was on Mirapex at higher dosage; mild hypomania; and weight loss!

My pdoc is actually a team in the Treatment-Resistant Depression department of Emory University. They were fascinated because the sudafed not only treated the chronic depression I have been experiencing, but radically lowered my agoraphobia and social anxiety!

They also gave me an ADHD screening, which was positive, and we discussed the poorly-understood relationship between ADHD and bipolar disorder. Despite a very high IQ, I have had a checkered academic record. I did manage to graduate from an Ivy League college and a decent law school, but my grades were not very good and my LSAT (800) would have indicated a much more selective law school. I did have periodic good grades alternating with bad ones.

The bottom line I wanted to share with you: My psychiatric team was fascinated at the phenomenon -- especially the reduction of anxiety -- and said that, as far as they were concerned, I could take pseudoephedrine for the rest of my life. Of course if I should develop high blood pressure (which is so far unaffected) or any sort of heart problems, or any dangerous degree of mania, we would have to re-evaluate. But from what I have read, pseudoephedrine is easier to tolerate than most stimulants prescribed for ADHD.

I'm now tapering off the Zoloft, which was ineffective, and then will taper off the Mirapex if all is well. The idea being to see whether the effect was from the sudafed alone, or a combinatory effect with the sertraline. The Mirapex was effective but had a lot of side effects.

I really hope this works out. I've put on a lot of weight, which is terrible for my heart and general health, partially due to the effects of various SSRI/MAOI/bipolar medications. The extra weight is pouring off and, even if there is some ill effect to my heart, I need to balance that against the ill effects of the obesity. I am also getting some significant exercise for the first time in over 10 years!

One of my doctors, who is in research, might do a case study, since this is the first treatment in 45 years of bipolar misery that has really truly helped me. I am praying that it continues to be effective and doesn't have deleterious side effects that make me discontinue it.

But anyway, I am taking 4x30mg pseudoephedrine daily (I weigh 255 pounds) with the blessing of a good psychiatric team, and so far it has been startlingly effective to treat on a wide range of mental problems, including Axis I diagnosis of bipolar II.

[zm3thod]

Last time I had a sinus infection my doctor recommended taking Zyrtec-D (cetirizine HCl 5 mg/pseudoephedrine HCl 120 mg). He told me it would "probably make you edgy"

He was right. I don't get any other apparent mental effects from it

Edited by zm3thod, 12 April 2010 - 12:28 AM.

[LabRat84]

Last time I had a sinus infection my doctor recommended taking Zyrtec-D (cetirizine HCl 5 mg/pseudoephedrine HCl 120 mg). He told me it would "probably make you edgy"

He was right. I don't get any other apparent mental effects from it

Sounds like a psychosomatic effect, or possibly one where expectations influence behavior. There have been some interesting studies about the correlation between the effects that people expect alcohol to have and the behaviors they exhibit while intoxicated.

[Jurence]

Before I was prescribed adderall I would self medicate with psuedoephedrine. I am still very much affected by it.

Try to take breaks. Dependency builds quickly, and you run the risk of causing adrenal gland damage.

[zm3thod]

Last time I had a sinus infection my doctor recommended taking Zyrtec-D (cetirizine HCl 5 mg/pseudoephedrine HCl 120 mg). He told me it would "probably make you edgy"

He was right. I don't get any other apparent mental effects from it

Sounds like a psychosomatic effect, or possibly one where expectations influence behavior. There have been some interesting studies about the correlation between the effects that people expect alcohol to have and the behaviors they exhibit while intoxicated.

Very possible, suggestion can be very powerful. Could also be a word choice - (over)stimulated, agitated. I do feel something beyond just having less congestion when I take it though

Also, I would think he wouldn't just make that up out of no-where, as the one side-effect that I would notice

edit:
aforementioned Doctor = Immunologist

Edited by zm3thod, 13 April 2010 - 09:53 PM.

[alpha2A]

My pdoc is actually a team in the Treatment-Resistant Depression department of Emory University. They were fascinated because the sudafed not only treated the chronic depression I have been experiencing, but radically lowered my agoraphobia and social anxiety!

The bottom line I wanted to share with you: My psychiatric team was fascinated at the phenomenon -- especially the reduction of anxiety --

 

I don't think the efficacy of stimulants in the treatment of anxiety is particularly unusual.  In my case, only opiates have ever had a greater anxiolytic effect.  Enhanced self-confidence is probably involved in this effect.  If your pdoc team is interested, I can provide further information.

Your response to pseudoephedrine, however, is spectacular, and seems to resemble the experience of the person who started this thread.

They also gave me an ADHD screening, which was positive, and we discussed the poorly-understood relationship between ADHD and bipolar disorder.

Can you provide more information on this relationship?  I have ADHD and social anxiety, and I once experienced a hypomanic episode, so it's possible that my condition has some similarity with Bipolar II disorder.  Furthermore, my depression is very treatment resistant.  However, I do not get spectacular effects from pseudoephedrine.

Have you tried any other stimulants than pseudoephedrine?  What about ephedrine or methylphenidate (Ritalin)?

and said that, as far as they were concerned, I could take pseudoephedrine for the rest of my life. Of course if I should develop high blood pressure (which is so far unaffected) or any sort of heart problems,

You should know that if you do develop hypertension, it's very much possible to treat it.  There is a rich selection of antihypertensive agents, and these could be used in combination with pseudoephedrine.

or any dangerous degree of mania, we would have to re-evaluate. But from what I have read, pseudoephedrine is easier to tolerate than most stimulants prescribed for ADHD.

Not necessarily.  Pseudoephedrine has mainly adrenergic side-effects, and this is the case also with the other stimulants.

I'm now tapering off the Zoloft, which was ineffective, and then will taper off the Mirapex if all is well. The idea being to see whether the effect was from the sudafed alone, or a combinatory effect with the sertraline.

The sertraline may actually dampen the effect of stimulants.  It's possible that without it, the effect of pseudoephedrine would be too strong.

I really hope this works out. I've put on a lot of weight, which is terrible for my heart and general health, partially due to the effects of various SSRI/MAOI/bipolar medications. The extra weight is pouring off and, even if there is some ill effect to my heart, I need to balance that against the ill effects of the obesity. I am also getting some significant exercise for the first time in over 10 years!

Stimulants are classic weight loss drugs.  If additional anorexic efficacy is needed, you may be interested in knowing that buprenorphine can be quite effective for the purpose, possibly more so than stimulants, and they can be combined too.  Its weight loss efficacy was almost too excessive in my case, even at low doses, and the effect was maintained for the whole treatment period.

[Jurence]

Psuedoephedrine is used by bodybuilders to promote fat loss FYI

[Bardo]

I am yet another with the same reaction with pseduoephedrine...having treatment resistant depression/bipolar II.
I was unsure of the long-term safety of it, so I stopped after a week. It is the second best treatment second to supplementing cortisol for me.
Feels like a bunch of neurotrasmitters are being released in my brain.

Anyways I am taking ephedrine now, but also with exogenous cortisol that I am trying to taper off of.
The ephedrine seems a lot milder and 'safer'. Also taking SJW, so that might be affecting it as well.

Have you guys trying taking nicotine with the pseudoephedrine?
Is using pseudoephedrine or ephedrine safe for long-term use?

Edited by Bardo, 18 April 2010 - 11:53 PM.

[Mason Barge]

I am yet another with the same reaction with pseduoephedrine...having treatment resistant depression/bipolar II.
I was unsure of the long-term safety of it, so I stopped after a week. It is the second best treatment second to supplementing cortisol for me.
Feels like a bunch of neurotrasmitters are being released in my brain.

Anyways I am taking ephedrine now, but also with exogenous cortisol that I am trying to taper off of.
The ephedrine seems a lot milder and 'safer'. Also taking SJW, so that might be affecting it as well.

Have you guys trying taking nicotine with the pseudoephedrine?
Is using pseudoephedrine or ephedrine safe for long-term use?

Good luck finding a reliable answer to the safety issue. My doctor feels comfortable with it. Just on general principles, I wouldn't want to take it long term unless it treated a serious illness and there was no better alternative (which pretty much describes my situation, LOL). I have spent a bit of time searching, and I have found no reputable study on the effects of long-term (i.e. 6 months or more) pseudoephedrine use. Also, good luck finding any reliable differentiation between ephedrine and pseudoephedrine other than some relatively immaterial things, e.g. ephedrine is a bit more potent per mg and more effective as a bronchodilator, while pseudo works better as a nasal decongestant.

I think I'm going to commit to taking it long term, though. So maybe I'll be a good anecdotal case study, for the very limited use that might be. I have not yet noticed a need to increase dosage, although I have noticed that there is a cumulative effect after roughly three days.

I have a nicotine addiction (I chew the gum) so, yes, I have actually taken it only with nicotine.

[sdsgec]

This morning I had to take a Dimetapp (flu coming on) which contains 30mg pseudoephedrine. Pretty much all day I was foggy and spacey, but later this afternoon I just started doing stuff... Like cleaning up my entire room, a huge outstanding project which I had been putting off since the beginning of the year. And it wasn't a manic energy, just like 'oh, what's next', connecting the dots and doing what needs to be done.

It's now 10PM, the time when I'm usually dragging myself around trying my hardest to the simple tasks like brush teeth and take contacts out and collapse into bed. I feel dreamy, like I'm flowing. I even started to dance during my cleaning effort.

Question is, how has the pseudoephedrine taken the edge off my usual fatigue/apathy/depression? And why would the focus appear later in the afternoon vs earlier on?

Considering I respond to this sort of thing, is there a safer way to get me motivated and break the procrastination barrier long term? And also, what is it that I'm lacking here? Dopamine? Still getting tested for lots of things, but as posted in another thread I have high DHEA-S. Feel free to suggest any other tests I should think about.