36 replies to this topic

[Elus]

Can you imagine waking up from a cryogenics procedure? I can hardly predict what it would be like, but I can use my imagination.

To you, it would seem like you closed your eyes for just a second, and then you would wake up to find yourself in a strange room. It is a room bathed in gentle white light and spotless surfaces. Strange devices would assemble themselves around your body, silently monitoring you.

Seemless and sleek white surfaces would characterize the majority of the room.

You would look down at your body and see that you're young and healthy, and that you're surrounded by your friends from all those hundreds of years ago, who also decided to invest in cryogenics. Can you imagine the questions and the conversation you would have with them? "Hey, where am I? What's today's date? What have I missed?"

It would dawn upon you that you're in a strange and wonderful future, where mind boggling advances in technology have occurred. Can you feel the joy you would feel on that day? To be alive against impossible odds? To be able to be part of the future, and be one of the oldest beings to walk the earth?

You would walk out of that strange facility and for the first time catch a glimpse of the future.

You would have a lot of catching up to do.

How incredible would that be? I dream about these scenarios every day. Sorry for the incoherent rambling.

[chris w]

I think the biggest thing to consider is wheter you would think "Hey, so the plan worked !!!" or "Who to f.. am I ?" - this is basically to find out if cryonics works or not in terms of brain/personality. After that I would be affraid, like really really affraid to know what year it is. If you were revived in lets say 2100 then I guess that wouldn't be so bad, having seen all those sci fi movies like Blade Runner ( I guess that was actually happening about 20 years from today if I remember ) you would be kind of prepared to what the world looks like, but imagine waking up in 4000 AD, where, I don't know, we don't have bodies anymore but are in form of ethereal purple hazes that communicate telepathically and one of them says to you "Hey, join us mister". I guess there would be some kind of gradually adjusting you to this new situation and I'm not even sure that would work in every individual - perhaps some of them would choose to stay "in the hallway", in for ex virtually recreated XX century.

Edited by chris w, 09 May 2010 - 01:23 PM.

[PWAIN]

I think it mght actually be better to allow the person to 'wake up' in a setting that looks much like the world they left behind and then allow time to adjust emotionally to the new environment. imagine someone from 2000 years ago waking up in a modern intensive care ward. Remember that since we are supposedly in a period of accelerating advancement, the level of change in a couple hundred years could be similar to our previous 2000 years.

[CryoBurger]

As much as I love discussions on this topic, one of the things that has become a pet peeve for me, is the constant "creative thinking" everyone does. I guess since its all a bunch of unknowns, anyone can create whatever future they want. But it cracks me up how its always perfection and wonderful. Not that it has to be all negative, but so many posts here don't stick to what we do know, and discuss what we can foresee. They always branch off into these fantasy worlds where people create entire scenarios out of their own brains.

Ignoring all the discussion about beautiful white surfaces and being bathed in wonderful white light - this topic could be more constructive to discuss the psychological ramifications of waking up 600 years from now. Realizing that there in fact is no heaven or hell. Realizing that everyone you've known is genuinely dead and gone. And no matter how wealthy you were in 2010, you'll be lucky to be a waiter living in a run down studio apartment 600 years later, unless you get some serious luck on your side. The psychological ramifications alone will be monstrous. There will be "syndromes" for certain people who are reanimated... Those who don't cope well with what they are hit with. All the things we can't possibly anticipate today that we will have to cope with then. Reassimilation, employment, finances, support, learning how to live in a society that thinks you talk weird, and very possibly being a less than perfect physical specimen. If you're physical at all. I think its incredibly presumptuous to just assume that we'll be popped into a svelt 25 year olds body. We may very well be freaks of nature who are just lucky to be alive again, but will have no social lives, and absolutely no way to "woo" a beautiful woman anymore. Sex. Friendships. Relationships. Jobs. all these things ....

For goodness sake ... "society" may decide to reanimate you before they've even gotten very far with certain other things. You may wake up and really wish you'd been woken up another 600 years later because technical advances aren't quite ready to keep you from dying again. Maybe they just woke you up because your body had near perfect preservation and now you're awake 400 years before the others, and very well may croak again. I dont know ... when you really start to look at real life, things are nowhere near as simple and fantasy-landish as I see people going on and on about on this forum. There are going to be huge obstacles to contend with. And you're going to be 100% at the mercy of both society, its laws, and those who have the power to revive you. You will have no say in what happens, and that is a huge gamble.

[chrwe]

Well, I suppose it all depends on how long it takes.

I personally do not think that any of us have a chance if it takes 500 years or similar, because of I also personally believe that the greatest chance of revival lies in a continued existence of the cryonics institutes.

However, why are we here? Because we believe that significant increases to our lifetime can be done IN OUR LIFETIME. How much more, maybe, in 200-300 years? And that is not too moonshiney to hope for, I believe, for the cryonics institutes to survive. Especially if we truly do see increasing of the anti-ageing technology: People will be angry and not want to "just miss out", therefore there will be more cryonics members.

Assuming that the cryonics institutes survive and will be the ones to revive us, I believe they will not do it (in general) unless there is a valid chance that the revival will be successful and that the technology not just to die again rather soonish exists. Why? Because it would cost them a lot of customers and what hey, hopefully we have family still alive by then who will take an interest. I have kids, they might live to 150-200 years giving new medicine, they hopefully have kids too, that alone will give me a chance to be "known" throughout 200-250 years.

I suggest we write letters to our descendants so they know who we are and have an incentive to watch over us while we cant. Plus, it will surely be a good idea to give the cryonics institute of your choice more than the bare fee to store yourself (so they can invest it etc. etc.).

As to adapting: Hell, i would be glad to be alive. I`d do any janitor job around provided I can live and stay alive. And why should we have no friends etc. etc.? We would have the other relicts from the past also all of us are visionaries I believe and we are used to thinking about the weird stuff, so I`m not concerned. As long as they can properly repair me and my brain. And about heaven and hell: Sweeties, if I 100% believed in an afterlife (even if I believed 50%), I wouldnt sign up for cryopreservation, would I? Hmm? And if I still want to believe in heaven, well resurrection is supposed to be a while off, is it (think: tipler, tipler, tipler and hope ), so the darkness I am likely to experience is only to be expected.

In fact,, something else is MY biggest fear - that the brain has suffered so much damage that I will "wake up" totally messed up in the upper storey which equals hell I suppose...

the second biggest fear is that they will experiment a bit until they "get it" and I just hope I won`t be one of the fails...it`s a bit shitty you cannot defend yourself

In a nutshell, I dont fear if there is a lot to adapt to or if I have to do janitor jobs or whatever, just wake me up, repair my brain and let me be alive. Don`t much care about anything else.

Edited by chrwe, 10 May 2010 - 12:45 PM.

[David Styles]

As much as I love discussions on this topic, one of the things that has become a pet peeve for me, is the constant "creative thinking" everyone does. I guess since its all a bunch of unknowns, anyone can create whatever future they want. But it cracks me up how its always perfection and wonderful. Not that it has to be all negative, but so many posts here don't stick to what we do know, and discuss what we can foresee. They always branch off into these fantasy worlds where people create entire scenarios out of their own brains.

Much like what you're about to do in the rest of your post, then.

Quote: Ignoring all the discussion about beautiful white surfaces and being bathed in wonderful white light

Personally, I'd agree that the decor is not tremendously important.

Quote: this topic could be more constructive to discuss the psychological ramifications of waking up 600 years from now.

How would that be constructive? And why 600 years?

Quote: Realizing that there in fact is no heaven or hell. Realizing that everyone you've known is genuinely dead and gone.

Speak for yourself. All my nearest and dearest are cryonicists.

Quote: And no matter how wealthy you were in 2010, you'll be lucky to be a waiter living in a run down studio apartment

What a strange assertion with nothing whatsoever to back it up. Assuming (and it's quite an assumption) that money continues to be a relevant factor in society after various improvements in technology, I rather expect the first person back will be an instant celebrity, and therefore very quickly rich.

Besides that, I've had nothing before and built up to a nice life pretty quickly. I could do so again if needs be. Seriously, poverty (especially temporary poverty) isn't worse than death. To suggest otherwise is ridiculously melodramatic.

Quote: The psychological ramifications alone will be monstrous.

I presume you're speaking from a strong personal scientific background in psychology? If so, I look forward to hearing your reasoning. If not, please refrain from making unfounded assumptions and stating them as facts.

Quote: There will be "syndromes" for certain people who are reanimated... Those who don't cope well with what they are hit with.

Change happens. People deal with it (or fail to deal with it) in different ways. The kind of people who will make cryonics suspension arrangements for themselves, and readily embrace emergent technologies, are obviously people who cope with change better than most, as demonstrated by their actions.

Sure, if you were to catapult a random luddite a few decades into the future, they'd doubtlessly be very stressed indeed. But it won't be random luddites who are undergoing this transition, will it?

Quote: All the things we can't possibly anticipate today that we will have to cope with then.

And all the solutions that you can't possibly anticipate today, that we will have to benefit from then.

Your argument is much like a proto-human wondering how people of our time will deal with sabre-toothed tigers, not to mention the one-eyed one-horned flying purple people-eaters that evolution will doubtlessly have produced by our time, when it is equally obvious to him that our only defences in 2010 CE will be chipped flint spearheads.

Quote: Reassimilation, employment, finances, support, learning how to live in a society that thinks you talk weird,

If it bugs you that much, you could always learn to talk like the others around you. It's not difficult. Most people gradually adapt their idiolect to mirror that of those around them without even trying or being aware of it.

Quote: and very possibly being a less than perfect physical specimen.

God forbid that I should be less than perfect. I'll get over it, if I don't benefit from gene therapy improvements more quickly than that.

Quote: If you're physical at all. I think its incredibly presumptuous to just assume that we'll be popped into a svelt 25 year olds body. We may very well be freaks of nature who are just lucky to be alive again, but will have no social lives,

Social lives will depend somewhat on personalities. I don't know you as a person, but speaking for myself, I'm not that bad.

Quote: and absolutely no way to "woo" a beautiful woman anymore.

You make some really strange assumptions. Granted, you know yourself better than I do, of course.

Quote: Sex. Friendships. Relationships. Jobs. all these things ....

All of these things are what? It seems like a strange short list of words to me. The first two items are subsets of the third item, and the fourth item seems to be utterly irrelevant to the foregoing three.

Did you have a point? If so, you are welcome to try to elaborate.

Quote: For goodness sake ... "society" may decide to reanimate you before they've even gotten very far with certain other things. You may wake up and really wish you'd been woken up another 600 years later because technical advances aren't quite ready to keep you from dying again. Maybe they just woke you up because your body had near perfect preservation and now you're awake 400 years before the others, and very well may croak again.

If technology in 2010 is sufficient to suspend me such that I can be reanimated later (as your whole argument presupposes), then it is pretty safe to say that if I should be reanimated in [your strangely arbitrary example of] 2610 and die again, technology at that time will also be sufficient to, at the very least, suspend me such that I can be reanimated later.

Quote: I dont know

Truest words in your post. I commend you on this realisation.

Quote: ... when you really start to look at real life, things are nowhere near as simple and fantasy-landish as I see people going on and on about on this forum.

One or two posts aside, I think you're reading a different forum to what I am.

Quote: There are going to be huge obstacles to contend with.

And huge solutions with which to overcome them. A few hundred years ago, a disease that is today inconsequential and very easily defended against / cured if necessary was an existential threat to humanity (ie, threatened to wipe out our species). Sure, throughout history bigger problems emerge, but so do bigger solutions.

Quote: And you're going to be 100% at the mercy of both society, its laws, and those who have the power to revive you. You will have no say in what happens, and that is a huge gamble.

It's no gamble at all.

To suggest that something is a gamble infers that there is something that one might lose by engaging in the gamble that one will not lose by not engaging the gamble.

[mikeinnaples]

It is a gamble if you have some belief in religion/afterlife I suppose. Otherwise.... no, it can't be seen as a gamble, because refusing to play, so to speak, simply means you are accepting oblivion.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 10 May 2010 - 05:15 PM.

[Elus]

When I made this thread, I didn't mean for it to hold a candle to what a real reawakening scenario would be like.

In fact, I think there would be hoards of media and other such things that might make the experience a bit less than pleasant. But hey, I can dream, can't I? And this forum is all about our dreams and hopes for the future. It's a forum where we can take steps toward making those dreams a reality.

I believe the thread is in the spirit of imminst, given the general positive outlook that we share about the future's remarkable potential.

So yeah, what do you think your re-awakening might be like? What would you do?

[Hedrock]

Impossible!

Nobody would pay the immense costs of reengineering the frozen bodies.

The last problem of the future society will be to reanimate the frozen zombies.

All of the bodys will be secretely buried when the person is forgotten.

So I can not imagine this scenario, sorry!

Edited by Hedrock, 10 May 2010 - 11:10 PM.

[Reno]

Previous post

I agree with almost everything you said, but I don't think I would have had the patience or motivation to go ahead and write it all out.

Impossible!

Nobody would pay the immense costs of reengineering the frozen bodies.

The last problem of the future society will be to reanimate the frozen zombies.

All of the bodys will be secretely buried when the person is forgotten.

So I can not imagine this scenario, sorry!

That's why being cryonically frozen cost 25-50k. A good chunk of the money goes to the initial freezing and storage service, and the rest goes to maintenance and investments. This is all dependent on currency being a driving force in our culture's future. Personally, I believe that as man masters the manipulation and creation of structures on the molecular level there will be no need for money. The theory of supply and demand only works if there is limited supply.

[bgwowk]

Impossible!

Nobody would pay the immense costs of reengineering the frozen bodies.

The last problem of the future society will be to reanimate the frozen zombies.

All of the bodys will be secretely buried when the person is forgotten.

So I can not imagine this scenario, sorry!

Why are you even talking about revival? Why would society ever freeze someone or keep them frozen?

[CryoBurger]

Much like what you're about to do in the rest of your post, then.

Wrong. You failed to comprehend my basic English. I said people go on and on about fantasy scenarios rather than discuss what is feasible.

You're actually going to compare an assumption that the reanimated will be "bathed in white light" to my question as to employment? You really don't see a difference? The original poster was just being playful. But visit any thread on this forum and you will see people babbling on and on ... on tangents .... about things they couldnt POSSIBLY know about the future. Outrageous assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Its just masturbation of the mind. It has no real value, and honestly it reads like a dialogue you'd see on "The Big Bang Theory" sitcom.

It is feasible to say that there will be psychological issues. There is nothing "fantasy" about that. It is feasible to say that assimiliation will be an issue. Its feasible to say that there will be employment challenges. Financial challenges. Its feasible to comment that you may be lucky to get a low paying job because 600 years from now its FEASIBLE to state that you wont have the necessary skills to get a high paying one. Etc Etc Etc. These are known as feasible statements.

Telling me that we will open our eyes and see a beautiful white light and everything in the room will be a sparkling porcelain whiteness .... very different. Obviously.

I see people rambling on and on about how world governments will eventually form and dissolve and how there will be a police state and all this other crap that nobody has any way of knowing. You're probably one of those people who rambles on about how there will be overpopulation and how america will be 34 states instead of 50, and they'll ship us to Norway because you think liquid nitrogen will be cheaper there 549 years from now blah blah blah. Its that kind of talk that seems useless to me. And you know what im referring to. When people go off on absurd tangents based on nothing. My comments were based on logical rational presumptions based on what we DO know today. There's a huge difference.

You failed to comprehend the difference between a feasible assumption and pure fantasy.

You also need to understand something, David .... the reason everbody in the general public laughs at people like you, and other cryonics enthusiasts, is because you actually challenged my statement. Because you actually think asking about income is equal in relevance to "fantasy land" adventures. My biggest problem is that these people couldn't possibly have a single bit of evidence to back their extraordinary pretend-world scenarios. And its discussions like those which keep Cryonics from looking like a legitimate endeavour to the general public. Rather than tackling what needs to be tackled right now. Issues that need to be addressed now. Today. The financial questions upon reanimation. The psychological ramifications of reanimation. The questions about employment. The questions about storage of personal items. The creation of committees or organizations which will remain in tact even if specific preservation companies come and go.

These issues get ignored while a bunch of people fantasize about how they're going to fly around on space ships and visit the planets. This is why *reasonable* people in the general public ignore this type of forum all together. Reasonable people need answers to reasonable questions. Investing time in fantasy world exchanges on the web doesn't lend credibility to Cryonics. And that is what I was trying to say. That is why such discussions bug me. They're fun, but not relevant. Especially when people begin creating entire world scenarios that they think will happen. Its almost silly.

It's nice that you invested so much wasted time trying to pick apart my post, but like I said, creating fantasy world scenarios is a lot different than discussing future income.

-CB-

Edited by CryoBurger, 11 May 2010 - 11:16 PM.

[David Styles]

It is feasible to say that there will be psychological issues. There is nothing "fantasy" about that. It is feasible to say that assimiliation will be an issue. Its feasible to say that there will be employment challenges. Financial challenges. Its feasible to comment that you may be lucky to get a low paying job because 600 years from now its FEASIBLE to state that you wont have the necessary skills to get a high paying one. Etc Etc Etc. These are known as feasible statements.

Assumptions. It's feasible to state anything, because it's easy to state anything. Backing it up with some sort of sensible rationale is another matter, and something that you have failed to do.

You're probably one of those people who rambles on about how there will be overpopulation and how america will be 34 states instead of 50, and they'll ship us to Norway because you think liquid nitrogen will be cheaper there 549 years from now blah blah blah.

No. Quite the opposite. If I can't know something now, I deal with what I can know.

My comments were based on logical rational presumptions based on what we DO know today.

Your arguments were based on assumptions that were without any kind of certainty.

You also need to understand something, David .... the reason everbody in the general public laughs at people like you,

Another assumption, again fallacious.

Additionally, please do not try to speak for "everybody in the general public". Your opinion does not hold the weight of seven billion.

Rather than tackling what needs to be tackled right now. Issues that need to be addressed now. Today. The financial questions upon reanimation. The psychological ramifications of reanimation. The questions about employment.

Not only do they not need to be "tackled right now" and "addressed now. Today", they actually can't be addressed now. Because any such talk is based on assumptions about the a future that is as yet unknown.

What needs to be "tackled right now" is the issue of doing what one can to ensure one is around later to deal with whatever problems the future might throw at us. It might be easy at that time; it might be as difficult as you expect. But right now, what we need to work on is actually getting there. That's where I focus myself, in any case.

The questions about storage of personal items.

This is not an issue of life and death.

The creation of committees or organizations which will remain in tact even if specific preservation companies come and go.

People have done this. The Asset Preservation Society is one such group. I daresay there are others.

These issues get ignored while a bunch of people fantasize about how they're going to fly around on space ships and visit the planets. This is why *reasonable* people in the general public ignore this type of forum all together.

I presume then you do not count yourself as a reasonable person?

Investing time in fantasy world exchanges on the web doesn't lend credibility to Cryonics. And that is what I was trying to say. That is why such discussions bug me. They're fun, but not relevant. Especially when people begin creating entire world scenarios that they think will happen. Its almost silly.

With this point, I agree.

It's nice that you invested so much wasted time trying to pick apart my post, but like I said, creating fantasy world scenarios is a lot different than discussing future income.

-CB-

I've wasted a little more, because I actually agree with your core point; I disagree only with your assumptions about the future, and therefore your priorities regarding what needs to be (and what can be) worked out now.

You concern yourself with how you will make money in 600 years to have a nice apartment rather than a run-down one, and how you will get laid in 600 years.

I, on the other hand, concern myself with how I will equip my suspension team with the best automated CPS device, and what our biochemist needs to make the best vitrification solution; things like that.

I, for one, am working firmly in the here and now.

[dustinw]

I'm calling it right here; Winner: David Styles.

CryoBurger, it's not entirely unreasonable to assume that you'll need to worry about your financial situation in the future, but the specifics of what that would entail are just as much fantasy as anything else in this thread. Who knows how income will be earned (or even if it will be necessary) in the future? That being said, a possible solution that I can think of would be to entrust your assets to a company that would be able to preserve your wealth and purchasing power (or even grow it) for use upon reanimation. That is at least something that can be feasibly tackled in the here and now.

[Kolos]

Well Cryonics is all about hope. You die and no one can guarantee you anything and to even seriously consider something like that you must have very high hopes about the future. Honestly your body is not just frozen, it's dead and often you have only small part of it (head) because thats cheaper option. Of course it's damaged (we can only speculate how seriously) so not only you hope that eventually someone would bring you back to life which might include full body transplant so you wouldn't end up like Zordon but also that what was left of you would be enough to re-create your personality etc.
It would require technologies so advanced that it's quite logical to say that if there will be any awakening at all there should be also flying sources and stuff it's just possible only in some of this fantasy world scenerios.

[ken_akiba]

Sorry to interrupt but 'Winner' ? How can there be a winner in a debate of this nature?
And I'd like to add:
"I, for one, am working firmly in the here and now." Yes, but for uncertain future.

Now I have no idea how much I will get flamed for saying this but if I can afford Cryonics, Iwould rather spend the money for orphans.

BTW in near future, maybe an orbiting satelite in space is the best place for cryonic suspension. No need for freezing equipment (naturally cold), no maintenance cost and relatively safe from natural disasters.

[dustinw]

Alright, "Winner" was said somewhat jokingly. Just that I felt David's argument was much more reasonable and that the debate seemed to be getting competitive and a touch personal, so I thought I would take it upon myself to declare a winner.

The future is always uncertain, it seems most prudent to work "in the here and now", how could we do otherwise? We have to estimate what actions will have the most benefit, in order to prioritize. I agree with David in that the first and foremost concern is to be sure that any attempt at preservation would be made with the best knowledge and equipment, all else is secondary if we are damaged irreparably in the suspension process. And an unsuccessful cryopreservation is not an outlandish scenario, so spending your money on something else is not at all unreasonable Ken. It's certainly a risk and a gamble, and a personal decision.

Edited by dustinw, 12 May 2010 - 02:00 AM.

[Luke Parrish]

Now I have no idea how much I will get flamed for saying this but if I can afford Cryonics, Iwould rather spend the money for orphans.

Excellent sentiment, but I have to wonder who actually does this?

And conversely, does anyone actually substitute cryonics for money that would otherwise be sent to orphans?

[shadowhawk]

Now I have no idea how much I will get flamed for saying this but if I can afford Cryonics, Iwould rather spend the money for orphans.

Excellent sentiment, but I have to wonder who actually does this?

And conversely, does anyone actually substitute cryonics for money that would otherwise be sent to orphans?

I think his point is it would be his preference to give the money to orphans. The answer to your second question would be, "yes."

I have a couple of thoughts to add to the discussion. Who is the “You” who wakes up? Who went to sleep (died). If you can just get your brain going again are “you,” awakened?

[chrwe]

Ah Shadowhawk , if we could answer who is the "who" ...

You have probably noticed that the research on human consciousness and what we actually "are" is one of the biggest themes of the 21st century?

However, one answer I can at least give from all my research on this is that the "self" we experience is a mixture of our current emotional and physical state plus all the long-term memories we have plus the thinking pattern we are born with plus develop throughout life.

The hope of cryonicists, including me, is that the long-term memories and the thinking pattern can be restored, making me feel "myself" again after waking up.

We can argue all night whether there is something more to the "who" that we are, if there is some sort of spirit or similar, but we will not solve the problem anytime soon since the two positions are pretty well established (I personally, with great reluctance and after a lot of research, do fear there is nothing to us except our brains and memories).

To answer CryoBurger: I think the points you raise are valid. But the thing is, the most important aspect to cryonics for most people is the chance of sheer survival. Everything else takes second place to this hope. Of course there are a lot of "ifs" in this equation, or everybody would be booked into cryonics. Psychological difficulties will arise. Medical difficulties might arise. Social difficulties are to be expected. But for me at least, all this does not matter in the face of the thought "I want to live". Also, I firmly believe that the human capacity for adapting to new environments is enormous. Or we would not have populated the planet as we did.

Edited by chrwe, 13 May 2010 - 05:02 AM.

[bgwowk]

Cryonics raises no new issues about philosophy of mind that haven't already been settled by medicine a long time ago.

http://www.depressed...something-else/

If someone's brain stopped working and was later restarted, the reality of them waking up and speaking with their family as though waking from sleep would be so overpowering as to preempt any philosophical debates among family, medical staff, or philosophers. The proof of this is that, unbeknownst to most people, this already happens in medicine all the time. Nobody debates whether the revived person is the original person.

http://www.alcor.org...ltimetravel.htm

[ceridwen]

I've been thinking about this. I have Alzheimers. I have read about experiments where mice and rats have had a complete reversal of their symptoms but are they the same individual mice and rats? There is no way of knowing. What I'd need is some way to get the original me back because I am being destroyed. THe technology required would be far far greater than what is available today. I had better just hope that growing more of my own stem cells in my body will bring back my original consciousness. I shall need my brain to be rebuilt. This will be expensive and I can only hope that there will be some scheme in place that will allow me to work off the price of my reanimation. A sort of loan system for us all would be best? I have thought of going to dignitas because I could then preserve what is left of my brain but there dont seem to be any cryonics teams that offer whole body perfusion in the countries that offer mercy killing services. Any help or advice anyone could offer  as a way out of this dilema would be much appreciated

[ceridwen]

The hope is that for everyone there will be no such thing as irreperable damage that in the passage of time the damage that we consider irreperable now will be repareable. For some of us that will mean being in suspension for a very very long time. Those of us with the worst injuries will awaken in a world that is the most radically different from how it is now. Humanity would be occupying other Earth like planets adjacent to Earth Things will be very different

[Jeoshua]

It might be beautiful, or it might be horrible, like the Revivals in Transmetropolitan:

http://semigeekly.fi...1/transmet8.jpg

[YOLF]

I've been thinking about this. I have Alzheimers. I have read about experiments where mice and rats have had a complete reversal of their symptoms but are they the same individual mice and rats? There is no way of knowing. What I'd need is some way to get the original me back because I am being destroyed. THe technology required would be far far greater than what is available today. I had better just hope that growing more of my own stem cells in my body will bring back my original consciousness. I shall need my brain to be rebuilt. This will be expensive and I can only hope that there will be some scheme in place that will allow me to work off the price of my reanimation. A sort of loan system for us all would be best? I have thought of going to dignitas because I could then preserve what is left of my brain but there dont seem to be any cryonics teams that offer whole body perfusion in the countries that offer mercy killing services. Any help or advice anyone could offer  as a way out of this dilema would be much appreciated

 

According to a "Pro-Life" organization that sends me email:

 

"Physician aid in dying (PAD), or assisted suicide, is legal in the states of Washington, Oregon, Montana, and Vermont."

 

You might look into getting it done there.

 

Aside from that, I think most of the damage done in Alzheimers is reversible. Even where it has killed the patient under the right cryonics protocols (which may not yet exist). Oregon has Oregon Cryonics. I would contact Dr. Jordan Sparks and see if the information that I have is accurate. He won't be the doc to do the PAD, but he should be knowledgeable.

[YOLF]

It might be beautiful, or it might be horrible, like the Revivals in Transmetropolitan:

http://semigeekly.fi...1/transmet8.jpg

It won't be like that. 

[leo tang]

Man~

 

you don't need to dream of the days after you become rich,

the only problem is how to become rich.

 

Same thing here,

you don't need to worry about the life after u came back from suspension,

what we need to think of is how to do the suspension!

 

[YOLF]

I talked to Jordan, here's what I found:

 

 

 

They would need to live in Oregon for 6 months first. They would also need to have less than 6 months to live, and dementia usually doesn't meet that criteria. It's not considered "terminal". Dementia is a really tough problem for cryonics. Options include refusing food and water, or possibly contracting a terminal illness of some kind, usually cancer.

 

 

I would move to Oregon and refuse to eat/drink. The sooner the better.

[Jeoshua]

It might be beautiful, or it might be horrible, like the Revivals in Transmetropolitan:

http://semigeekly.fi...1/transmet8.jpg

It won't be like that. 

Hopefully not. But Transmetropolitan is set so far in the future that people have forgotten what year it even is. We cannot know what the world will be like when and if the cure for a frozen person might be discovered. It might be a utopia, but if most of human history is any indication of the future, it won't be. Maybe the people who revive the frozen are just bureaucrats doing so because it's part of a contract they signed into, and now they need the warehouse space for something else.

Surely they would be provided for in a way better than death or a homeless shelter, but one also cannot discount the possibility that they would just not be able to adjust to the new world that they find themselves in.

Edited by Jeoshua, 10 May 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[YOLF]

Some songs about waking up post thaw:

M.C. Kilch - Cyberpunk Futures & Lucid Dreams

Maitreya One - Hip Hop State

Eric Homeyer - Cryonics is Cool