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What Nootropic Stacks do you Take and Why?


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#1 sparticle

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 05:49 AM


Hi all, I've used Piracetam and l-deprenyl on and off for a few years now but that's the extent of my Nootropic knowledge.

I have no idea which combos are best - any recomedations?

Are the effects synergistic or do they just add onto each other?

I like Piracetam by itself, makes me feel like I have a happy brain or something like that, although the obstensible increases in cognition and such are minor..

l-deprenyl is quite stimulating to me and I find it has quite an effect on cognition as well as libido - deprenyl seems to me more of what I'd expect from a nootropic than Piracetam..

Thanks for the input!

#2 nootropi

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 06:02 AM

Hi all, I've used Piracetam and l-deprenyl on and off for a few years now but that's the extent of my Nootropic knowledge.

  I have no idea which combos are best - any recomedations?

   Are the effects synergistic or do they just add onto each other?

  I like Piracetam by itself, makes me feel like I have a happy brain or something like that, although the obstensible increases in cognition and such are minor..

  l-deprenyl is quite stimulating to me and I find it has quite an effect on cognition as well as libido - deprenyl seems to me more of what I'd expect from a nootropic than Piracetam..

  Thanks for the input!


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#3 olderbutwiser

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 10:12 PM

Seems like individual differences in the perception of all the different nootropics makes a blanket "stack" recommendation not really useful.

I personally like piracetam, but don't care for the effects of adding aniracetam or pramiracetam. Aniracetam & pramiracetam subjectively seem to have a slower onset and a much longer half life, which makes sense considering their lipid soluble nature. Oxiracetam is similar to and additive to the effects of piracetam, except it is stronger per unit of weight - & more expensive per dose. Probably lots of people disagree, but I don't find "stacking" different 'racetams to increase the effectiveness and it does increase the cost. Straight piracetam is my preference among the 'racetams for several reasons. Cost, availability, shorter half life, and more safety data.

I find that some form of choline supplement is absolutely required to get full benefit from any of the 'racetams. I prefer centrophenoxin and CDP. The centrophenoxin may have effects beyond an AC precursor, but I don't notice anything when it is taken alone. Work the dose of any AC precursor up slowly and back off at the first sign of excessive muscle tightness / tone.

I take deprenyl @ 5mg per week and have for 12 years. I'm 47 now, started at 35. I take it for possible life-extension and neuroprotection. I have never noticed a subjective effect from that dosage.

I have probably tried just about every nootropic offered in the last 15 years. I have found just about all of them to either be without a detectable effect, or to have undesirable subjective effects. My current "stack" is very simple and cheap compared to what I see posted by others. Besides this stack, I take a pretty potent spectrum of vitamins. I have taken this stack as it is continuously for about 8 years, occasionally adding something new to it for a "test drive".

1200mg piracetam twice a day
125mg centrophenoxine twice a day
10mg vinpocetine twice a day
5mg selepryl 1mg/day-5days a weeks

The last year or so has been a great time as far as increasing availability of more and more nootropic compounds. It used to be much more hassle and expense to get stuff. Hopefully the trend will continue.

OBW

#4 scottl

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 01:53 AM

Olderbutwiser,

Thanks for posting your regimen. As someone new to nootropics it is very helpful to see different points of view.

Care to post your "pretty potent spectrum of vitamins"?

Thanks.

Scott

#5 nootropi

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 06:05 AM

Seems like individual differences in the perception of all the different nootropics makes a blanket "stack" recommendation not really useful.


You are totally correct. BUT, IF people read a few people's stacks, why they take them, and the recommendations of the members of this forum, they may have some of their questions answered before they (or we) type the same things over and over again. ;)

#6 scottl

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 02:57 PM

nootropi,

Perhaps it would be helpful to post a FAQ with e.g. links to a few people' stacks, links to posts LifeMirage made with info on many nootropics, etc?

#7

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 03:31 PM

I was thinking the same thing Scott. Making an FAQ and linking to those old threads of LifeMirage's where he had extensive posts and threads dedicated to single nootropics.

#8 sparticle

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 04:58 PM

Hi all, thanks for the replies and help!

The names I see most often seem to be Vinpocetine, Hydergine, and centrophenoxine - I may have to give these a try..

I forgot to mention Adrafanil - I've used that one on and off and found it rather stimulating but in a good way - is this stimulation typical? I see some say it takes several weeks to get rolling.. I consume no caffeine whatsoever though (I believe it impairs cognititve and creative functions as well has disturbing emotional well being) so I may be more sensitive to stimulants...

#9 dalessm

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 05:21 PM

OBW, Ditto to Scott's posting!

It seems as if individual experiences posted on this board are occasionally too one-sided (i.e. promotional). I must admit, I have doubts when a link to a specific nootropic supplier follows otherwise objective stack advice. It's refreshing to hear diverse empirical perspectives regarding the efficacy or ineffectiveness of specific nootropics and commonly used "stacks".

Thanks again for posting your experience.

#10 nootropi

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 11:45 PM

It seems as if individual experiences posted on this board are occasionally too one-sided (i.e. promotional). I must admit, I have doubts when a link to a specific nootropic supplier follows otherwise objective stack advice.


Yes, but you see that the problem is that most people are financially limited; and the way the nootropic/life extension market is for now, the only way 75% of the people seeking cognitive enhancement are going to be able to do so is to purchase from a vendor who has the best prices on bulk supplements, the best variety of bulk supplements, and, of course, includes free shipping. At this point smi2le.biz is the leader in this department. So when people ask me for advice on a stack, I often refer to smi2le's inventory as a list of recommendations assuming automatically that they want (independently verified) high quality, variety, and free shipping. ;)

Barely has someone came to this forum saying, "hey I have unlimited funds, recommend a stack!" And when they do, I do recommend the more expensive options; so please retract your statement.

Right now he has:

Aniracetam, Picamilon, Idebenone, KR-ALA, L-theanine, phenibut, centrophenoxine, pyritinol, 5-htp, sulbutiamine, creatine monohydrate, vinpocetine, gaba, Alpha GCP, choline bitartrate, phosphadityl serine, alpha lipoic acid, piracetam, acetyl-l-carnitine, empty gelatin capsules, oxiracetam, pyrodoxamine, MSM, Pregnenolone, N-Acetyl L-Cysteine, L-Carnosine, ALT-711, benfotamine...



#11

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 03:40 AM

I agree with nootropi, trust us when we say we don't toll up for the companies. We gain nothing from recommending you buy from a certain company other than knowing you will get the lowest price on that specific nootropic or nootropics.

Here are a list of online stores that sell nootropics:

Biogenesis (link available through google)
BAC (http://www.beyond-a-century.com/)
QHI.co.uk
Nubrain (link available through google)
1fast400.com (carries a few nootropics)
smi2le.biz
AOR.ca (carries some nootropics, more focused on Life Extension it seems)

Generally smi2le.biz has the lowest prices or comparatively similar prices to other stores. Smi2le does not carry everything though so we often defer to Biogenesis or QHI for other nootropics. It's a matter of cost savings, it seems most people here would rather cap their own powders than pay that much more for bottled pre-capped nootropics.

#12 nootropi

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 03:45 AM

I agree with nootropi, trust us when we say we don't toll up for the companies. We gain nothing from recommending you buy from a certain company other than knowing you will get the lowest price on that specific nootropic or nootropics.

Here are a list of online stores that sell nootropics:

Biogenesis (link available through google)
BAC (http://www.beyond-a-century.com/)
QHI.co.uk
Nubrain (link available through google)
1fast400.com (carries a few nootropics)
smi2le.biz
AOR.ca (carries some nootropics, more focused on Life Extension it seems)

Generally smi2le.biz has the lowest prices or comparatively similar prices to other stores. Smi2le does not carry everything though so we often defer to Biogenesis or QHI for other nootropics. It's a matter of cost savings, it seems most people here would rather cap their own powders than pay that much more for bottled pre-capped nootropics.


In fact, I gladly promote for smi2le.biz because I wish more vendors had as low prices and as excellent customer service as he does. Bulknutrition.com has good prices too; however, they do not stand behind their products with a test it challenge. And almost every dollar I have spent at smi2le.biz has been in store credit for assays I had performed at www.integratedbiomolecule.com. ;)

I challenge you, invite you, want you to: find me another vendor who offers an array of essential nootropic and life extension products as wide and as cheap as smi2le has...and then get them to reimburse me for independent assays (that is HPLC assays at integrated bio molecule). [wis]

Somehow I have the feeling I won't hear an answer from you on this issue. :)

Edited by nootropi, 13 September 2004 - 04:28 AM.


#13 dalessm

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:26 PM

Hi,

Don't get me wrong...I greatly appreciate supplier info, as I'm not independently wealthy myself! ;0)

Nevertheless, I'm sure you'd agree that such frequent supplier referrals could raise a red flag for some readers. I'm just glad that we had an opportunity to discuss the issue.

P.S. Nootropi, thanks for freely disclosing your relationship w/smi2le.biz.

Be well,
dalessm

#14 nootropi

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 09:18 PM

P.S. Nootropi, thanks for freely disclosing your relationship w/smi2le.biz.


I have no problem disclosing my relationship with smi2le.biz; I am probably the biggest supplement enthusiast customer he has -- I think that I am the only customer to actually get his products assayed and cash that value in for store credit; that is because I am particularly suspicous of mystery powders, if you know what I mean.

It is kind of strange (to say the least) to get a bunch of different colored bottles of powder with pasted-on lables in the mail. I cannot believe how many people feel comfortable just ingesting these powders without ever have the result of a single assay of the seller's products.

#15 lemon

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 12:27 AM

dalessm,

Nootropi has a point. Smi2le *is* heads and tails better than their competition. They are bringing products to market that were unavailable outside of an overseas distributer. They're setting the benchmark and other suppliers such as Bulk Nutrition are scrambling to keep up (price wars on aniracetam for example).

#16 nootropi

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 04:41 AM

dalessm,

Nootropi has a point.  Smi2le *is* heads and tails better than their competition.  They are bringing products to market that were unavailable outside of an overseas distributer.  They're setting the benchmark and other suppliers such as Bulk Nutrition are scrambling to keep up (price wars on aniracetam for example).


HEY, bulknutrition/1fast400 DID NOT EVEN CARRY ANIRACETAM until months after rizzer did. ;) And they never assay their Chinese powders before selling them to the general public nor permit their customers to do so for store credit. [ang]

#17 heavenbound

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Posted 04 October 2004 - 06:34 PM

[/quote]

HEY, bulknutrition/1fast400 DID NOT EVEN CARRY ANIRACETAM until months after rizzer did. :) And they never assay their Chinese powders before selling them to the general public [ang][/quote]

this is simply not true

check it

don't seem to have one for aniracetam though
ehh, but anyway....i would rather buy from rizzer in general though (cept for Alpha GPC)

#18 vortexentity

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Posted 06 October 2004 - 07:35 PM

When I first purchased Alpha-GPC from Bulknutrition the first thing I did was taste it.
(I guess it is the 2 year old in me.) To my great surprize it tasted like a sweetner. My first thought was man I got ripped off. The taste compared with Inositol or Dextrose. So I did a Google search for taste+Alpha-GPC and the first return was http://forums.bulknu.../topic5245.html which is bulk nutrition talking about the supp. You just have got to read every thread in the forum before jumping to conclusions I guess.

I now use this as my main source of Choline.

My Complete Nootropic and Life Extension stack is now like this:

Piracetam: 1500MG per day split into 2 doses morning and afternoon.
Aniracetam: 300MG per day "as above".
Alpha-GPC: 300MG per day "as above".
Centrophenoxine: 200MG per day "as above".
ALCAR: 200MG per day "as above".
DLPA: 200MG per day "as above".
5-HTP: 50MG per day "as above".
7-Keto DHEA: 50MG per day "as above".
Chocamine: 500MG per day "as above".

Twinlabs B-Complex. 1 per day in the morning.
Vit C in non acid form Calcium Ascorbate 500MG per day in one morning dose.
Fractured cell wall Chlorella: 1 gram per day in one morning dose.

I also take sublingual B12 when I feel like it and also sublingual hGH everyday.

I feel pretty good on this stack so far and I change it to test different things but for now this is what is working for me. I would say that before I started on this I did not perform as well as I do now and my friends ask me what I am doing that is making me look a little better and younger every week. I am now 41 but feel better than I did at 35. When I started taking a Nootropic and life extension regime I was 235 lbs and now it is more like 220 and with a lot more muscle mass as well.

vortexentity

#19

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 01:31 AM

vortexentity, I'm glad you finally added Alpha GPC and DLPA to your stack.

Edited by cosmos, 07 October 2004 - 02:13 AM.


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#20 vortexentity

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 05:02 AM

It is evolving. I want to up my stack further but I am just doing things slowly and change things a little at a time and testing the effect. Centrophenoxine beats the crap out of just normal DMAE. I liked DMAE but I have to say they are very different in their effect.

Alpha-GPC is nearly a nootropic all by itself. I took the first dose by itself without taking my normal morning stack and could feel a real noticable acetylcholine spike in about 35 min..

I toned it down a bit after that and found it quite a nice source of Choline and it taste great. I immediately thought of a new alpha-GPC, aniracetam, chocamine based drink mix. It would taste good enough to drink and would give a nice nootropic lift.

DLPA I hardly noticed at all. It made me a little jittery if I upped the dose above 400MG. I tried it at half that and it did not cause a problem so I will give it a few weeks and see if their is any benifit.

I remember a few months ago when my friend told me that you could get Piracetam in bulk form in the US now. I nearly shouted. We purchased all we could and stocked up. Then we started thinking we have got to increase our purchase volume and sit on a lot of this so if things change we will have enough for a long time.

If anyone has some good source for the law changes that have allowed nootropics to be sold in bulk form in the US I would like to see that material. I looked on the FDA web site and did a lot of searches and could only come up with one instance about it and it was from 98 or 99 I think.
http://www.fda.gov/b...R/CON00207.html

I can not find the root of the change and it is bugging me. I need to know how large of a window this is and if it is fast closing. The raid on smi2le was not a big confidence builder and this comes shortly after bulknutrition talked about a shipment of piracetam being turned around. I do not want to lose my smart drugs that help me a great deal just as they are becoming cheap enough to take them regularly. I have taken piracetam off and on when possible to afford for many years, even decades but if this change is not going to last I want to capitalize on it in a big way to get a volume of it quickly.

The only thing you can count on in this world is that things will change. Most of the time the change is not for the better it seems.

It is late, gnite folks

Edited by vortexentity, 07 October 2004 - 06:57 PM.





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