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Herbal amphetamine alternative


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#1 Shulginstestsubject

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:01 AM


I can't stop reading about this herb called Salvia miltiorrhiza. There are some studies that indicate that it has the same dopamine releasing effects as amphetamine. Here is one of them from NCBI.

Salviae miltiorrhizae Radix (SMR), an eminent herb in the treatment of cardiovascular disorder (called blood stasis in traditional Chinese medicine), is widely used in China, Japan, Taiwan and Korea. SMR is also herbal medicines used in the treatment of drug addiction without scientific support for their mechanism of action. We evaluated the effect of SMR on superoxide production by rat microglias using a 2-methyl-6-(p-methoxyphenyl)-3,7-dihydroimidazo[1,2-a]pyrazin-3-one-dependent chemiluminescence assay. SMR dose-dependently inhibited superoxide production by microglias stimulated with phorbol myristate acetate or opsonized zymosan, while it had no effect on superoxide production by a hypoxanthinexanthine oxidase system. These results indicate that SMR does not have a scavenging effect, but has an inhibitory effect on superoxide generation by microglias. Although SMR is commonly used for treating chronic cerebral infarction, it may also have a protective effect on progression of Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease. On the other hand, the present study investigated the effect of the medicinal plant on dopaminergic neurotransmission in comparison with amphetamine. The effect of crude water extracts (0.1 g/ml) of SMR on K+ (20 mM)-stimulated dopamine release from rat striatal slices was compared with amphetamine (10(-4) M) using high-performance liquid chromatography with electrochemical detection to measure endogenous dopamine. Amphetamine and SMR significantly increased K+-stimulated dopamine release (P<0.001) from rat striatal slices when compared with K+-stimulated alone. SMR potentiated the effect of amphetamine on K+-stimulated dopamine release (P<0.001) when compared with amphetamine alone. The results indicate that SMR may stimulate dopamine release in the same manner as amphetamine. It remains to be determined whether the effect of this extract on dopamine function is important in its therapeutic use in the treatment of drug addiction.

You'd think that this herb would have a stimulant effect comparable to that of amphetamine. But apparently there are many other mechanisms as play because I've read, on other forums, personal accounts of people trying this herb and receiving a sedative effect from it(mainly because it has an alkaloid that binds to benzodiazepine receptors). Is there anybody who knows a lot about this herb and can explain it's mechanism to me? I really would like to know if you can feel it's dopaminergic effects, like if it exhibits "rewarding" effects. For those who take it for it's psychoactive effects, do you feel like it's worth taking? Does it have any motivating, rewarding, antidepressant, etc effects? Thank you!
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#2 NR2(x)

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 03:58 AM

Increased Metabolism, Increased Plasticity, but acutely its a sedative, similar to alcohol, therefore lower dosing. I have no experience with this substance.




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Edited by NR2(x), 13 November 2010 - 04:01 AM.

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#3 NR2(x)

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 05:53 AM

I understand the intent of the members of this site is to examine compounds that show neuroprotective and improved general cognitive function eg better learning(this is the definition of a nootropic). Searching for drugs that enhance reward should be conducted else where. I really dont believe that this substance would be rewarding. That being said I only have a lay person knowledge and only have a limited capacity to fit disperate material together.
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#4 Animal

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:39 PM

I understand the intent of the members of this site is to examine compounds that show neuroprotective and improved general cognitive function eg better learning(this is the definition of a nootropic). Searching for drugs that enhance reward should be conducted else where. I really dont believe that this substance would be rewarding. That being said I only have a lay person knowledge and only have a limited capacity to fit disperate material together.


He could be trying to address anhedonia, or a similar lack of hedonic tone, this is something that is frequently discussed on this site. Treating these kinds of psychological impairment can indirectly have a significantly enhancing effect cognitively. We all know the detrimental effects depressive states can have on a individuals intellectual capacity.
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#5 NR2(x)

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:36 AM

wow anti-cancer anti-addiction anti-hiv anti-diabetes and strongly neuroprotective, why wouldnt scientist be crawling all over this?
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#6 Guacamolium

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:03 AM

I would just say "sida cordifolia" and call it a day. That's just me I guess... ;)
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#7 KimberCT

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:07 PM

It's also a pretty potent ACE-inhibitor judging from its effect on blood pressure and the nasty dry cough I developed.
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#8 longevitynow

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:39 PM

Salvia Milt is famous in Chinese Medicine for blood circulation, I'm skeptical about it as an amphetamine substitute, even if it might act on some of the same receptors. Great for blood circulation, and I am curious about anyone having an actual experience with it as a stimulant. I've tried "Geranamine", aka "Methylhexaneamine (Forthan, Forthane, Floradrene, Geranamine), or dimethylamylamine (DMAA)" or 1,3 Dimethylamylamine; originally a decongestant. It is somewhat similar to ephedrine. I like ephedra and ephedrine in low doses. I feel more focused and less wired (again low doses, not with a bunch of other stimulants). As they are off the market/illegal/hard to get someone suggested Geranamine (which is contained in geranium). In a low dose it made me sharp for 4-5 hours and I didn't feel wiped afterwards as I would with caffeine or most other chemical stimulants.
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#9 Shulginstestsubject

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:35 PM

Well I just feel that amphetamines WOULD be thee ideal drug for cognitive enhancement, motivation (more like initiative, motivation is more of a virtue), treatment for social anxiety, etc.. if it wasn't highly neurotoxic. My motivation behind the search for an herbal alternative is to find a compound that closely mimics it's action with none, or at least less, of the neurotoxicity. Also, I've come upon another compound called Thunbergia laurifolia.

Thunbergia laurifolia Linn. (TH) and Simplocos racemosa Roxb. (SY) are herbal medicines used in the treatment of drug addiction without scientific support for their mechanism of action. The present study investigated the effects of these medicinal plants on dopaminergic neurotransmission in comparison with amphetamine. The effect of crude water extracts (0.1 g/ml) of TH and SY on K+ (20 mM)-stimulated dopamine release from rat striatal slices were compared with amphetamine (10−4 M) using high-performance liquid chromatography with electrochemical detection to measure endogenous dopamine. Amphetamine and TH, but not SY, significantly increased K+-stimulated dopamine release (P<0.001) from rat striatal slices when compared with K+-stimulated alone. TH potentiated the effect of amphetamine on K+-stimulated dopamine release (P<0.001) when compared with amphetamine alone. The results indicate that TH may stimulate dopamine release in the same manner as amphetamine. It remains to be determined whether the effect of these extracts on dopamine function is important in their therapeutic use in the treatment of drug addiction.

Thoughts?

Also I do realize that botanical compounds DO have neurotoxic potential. I'm just sort of assuming that plants carry less addictive and neurotoxic properties. Correct me if I'm wrong to assume this.

Edited by Shulginstestsubject, 17 November 2010 - 07:37 PM.

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#10 NR2(x)

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:23 AM

Salvia miltiorrhiza will increase GDNF, therefore i include info on how GDNF effects cognitive function, wow, Type of stuff, you take before bed and wake up feeling alive, might take a few weeks to become noticable,

Effect of GDNF on differentiation of cultured ventral mesencephalic dopaminergic and non-dopaminergic calretinin-expressing neurons.
Schaller B, Andres RH, Huber AW, Meyer M, Pérez-Bouza A, Ducray AD, Seiler RW, Widmer HR.

Department of Neurosurgery, University of Bern, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland.

Abstract
Glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF) is a potent survival factor for ventral mesencephalic (VM) dopaminergic neurons. Subpopulations of dopaminergic and non-dopaminergic VM neurons express the calcium-binding proteins calbindin (CB) and calretinin (CR). Characterization of the actions of GDNF on distinct subpopulations of VM cells is of great importance for its potential use as a therapeutic molecule and for understanding its role in neuronal development. The present study investigated the effects of GDNF on the survival and morphological differentiation of dopaminergic and non-dopaminergic neurons in primary cultures of embryonic day (E) 18 rat VM. As expected from our results obtained using E14 VM cells, GDNF significantly increased the morphological complexity of E18 CB-immunoreractive (CB-ir), tyrosine hydroxylase (TH)-ir, and CR-ir neurons and also the densities of CB-ir and TH-ir neurons. Interestingly, densities of E18 CR-ir neurons, contrarily to our previous observations on E14 CR-ir neurons, were significantly higher after GDNF treatment (by 1.5-fold). Colocalization analyses demonstrated that GDNF increased the densitiy of dopaminergic neurons expressing CR (TH+/CR+/CB-), while no significant effects were observed for TH-/CR+/CB- cell densities. In contrast, we found that GDNF significantly increased the total fiber length (2-fold), number of primary neurites (1.4-fold), number of branching points (2.5-fold), and the size of neurite field per neuron (1.8-fold) of the non-dopaminergic CR-expressing neurons (TH-/CR+/CB-). These cells were identified as GABA-expressing neurons. In conclusion, our findings recognize GDNF as a potent differentiation factor for the development of VM dopaminergic and non-dopaminergic CR-expressing neurons

Edited by NR2(x), 18 November 2010 - 04:28 AM.

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