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Which non-whey protein powder? (pea protein isolate, rice protein conc


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#1 Steve_86

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 02:54 PM


Hi,

I am lactose intolerant and currently use whey protein isolate before and after strength training. I am fairly short on cash at the moment which makes buying high quality organic/free-range meat products expensive. I know whey is a very fast digesting protein so I am looking for a high quality slow absorbing protein which i can supplement alongside meals to meet the protein intake I need for strength gains.

What do you guys think of the following:

Pea protein isolate - http://www.myopure.c...in-isolate.html
Rice protein concentrate - http://www.myopure.c...oncentrate.html
Egg white powder - http://www.myopure.c...ite-powder.html

Any help is much appreciated :)

Edited by Steve_86, 16 November 2010 - 02:55 PM.


#2 TheFountain

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:35 AM

Hi,

I am lactose intolerant and currently use whey protein isolate before and after strength training. I am fairly short on cash at the moment which makes buying high quality organic/free-range meat products expensive. I know whey is a very fast digesting protein so I am looking for a high quality slow absorbing protein which i can supplement alongside meals to meet the protein intake I need for strength gains.

What do you guys think of the following:

Pea protein isolate - http://www.myopure.c...in-isolate.html
Rice protein concentrate - http://www.myopure.c...oncentrate.html
Egg white powder - http://www.myopure.c...ite-powder.html

Any help is much appreciated :)


The pea protein seems kind of expensive on a gram to dollar ratio. Swanson has some that might be cheaper per gram. True protein also sells it for what might be cheaper per gram but they seem to charge around 10$ for shipping regardless of how little you order.

#3 Skötkonung

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 11:35 PM

Hi,

I am lactose intolerant and currently use whey protein isolate before and after strength training. I am fairly short on cash at the moment which makes buying high quality organic/free-range meat products expensive. I know whey is a very fast digesting protein so I am looking for a high quality slow absorbing protein which i can supplement alongside meals to meet the protein intake I need for strength gains.

What do you guys think of the following:

Pea protein isolate - http://www.myopure.c...in-isolate.html
Rice protein concentrate - http://www.myopure.c...oncentrate.html
Egg white powder - http://www.myopure.c...ite-powder.html

Any help is much appreciated :)

Pea and rice proteins aren't "complete" proteins, so you may want to eat them with other complementary foods to fully utilize them. While more complete in terms of amino acids, egg protein is neither fast or slow digesting. It's slower digesting than whey but faster digesting than casein. If you want a slow digesting protein, casein might be the way to go. Although, long term it may not be ideal.

#4 e Volution

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 12:19 AM

Is a requirement you get it from MyoPure? If not perhaps investigate beef protein?

#5 Steve_86

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 04:25 AM

While more complete in terms of amino acids, egg protein is neither fast or slow digesting. It's slower digesting than whey but faster digesting than casein. If you want a slow digesting protein, casein might be the way to go. Although, long term it may not be ideal.


I'm lactose intolerant so casein is a no go.

I think I'll give egg protein a go but I worry that it will be of poor quality if the chickens used to produce the product were not free-range or fed a nutritional diet.



#6 TheFountain

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:56 AM


Hi,

I am lactose intolerant and currently use whey protein isolate before and after strength training. I am fairly short on cash at the moment which makes buying high quality organic/free-range meat products expensive. I know whey is a very fast digesting protein so I am looking for a high quality slow absorbing protein which i can supplement alongside meals to meet the protein intake I need for strength gains.

What do you guys think of the following:

Pea protein isolate - http://www.myopure.c...in-isolate.html
Rice protein concentrate - http://www.myopure.c...oncentrate.html
Egg white powder - http://www.myopure.c...ite-powder.html

Any help is much appreciated :)

Pea and rice proteins aren't "complete" proteins, so you may want to eat them with other complementary foods to fully utilize them. While more complete in terms of amino acids, egg protein is neither fast or slow digesting. It's slower digesting than whey but faster digesting than casein. If you want a slow digesting protein, casein might be the way to go. Although, long term it may not be ideal.


Are there any studies on the absorption rate of pea protein? I know Whey isolate is something like 90% absorption, depending on how pure the source, but I never read anything on pea protein. I know of a vegan body builder who swears by it though.

#7 ironchet

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:15 PM

I'm lactose intolerant so casein is a no go.



I'm lactose intolerant too and i've been taking casein just fine.

#8 Skötkonung

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:31 PM

Are there any studies on the absorption rate of pea protein? I know Whey isolate is something like 90% absorption, depending on how pure the source, but I never read anything on pea protein. I know of a vegan body builder who swears by it though.

I have no idea about how fast it digests, but I can tell you a little more about the quality of the protein.

Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) is a method of evaluating the protein quality based on both the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest it. PDCAAS was adopted by the US FDA and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations/World Health Organization in 1993 as "the preferred 'best'" method to determine protein quality.

The PDCAAS for pea protein in whole peas (and other legumes, discounting soy) is .70. A PDCAAS value of 1 is the highest, and 0 the lowest. As a whole food, it's not a terrible source of protein, but it falls short of beef, whey, soy, casein, and egg - all of which have a value of 1.

The formula for calculating the PDCAAS percentage is: (mg of limiting amino acid in 1 g of test protein / mg of same amino acid in 1 g of reference protein) x fecal true digestibility percentage. So basically, researchers are just looking the amino acid profile of the protein and true digestibility.

That said, I've heard that the various processing techniques of pea protein (and other plant proteins) can improve the PDCAAS. Pure Advantage Pea Protein Isolates PDCAAS is .90-1.0 according to the data supplied by the manufacturer. Unfortunately, there is no USP monograph for pea or whey protein isolate, so it is hard to rely on the data alone. Since it is an isolate, the protein is in its purest form. Which means better absorption and bioavailability since there are no other compounds attached. Obviously this could vary considerably betwen manufactorers.

I'm lactose intolerant so casein is a no go.

I think I'll give egg protein a go but I worry that it will be of poor quality if the chickens used to produce the product were not free-range or fed a nutritional diet.

There should be no lactose in casein protein. There should also be no lactose in whey protein. Lactose is a sugar that is removed during the purification process. If you can tolerate cheese, you will have no problem with casein.

http://www.gnc.com/p...ELAID=579258057
For instance, this protein powder is marketed as lactose and gluten free.

#9 Logan

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:33 PM


Hi,

I am lactose intolerant and currently use whey protein isolate before and after strength training. I am fairly short on cash at the moment which makes buying high quality organic/free-range meat products expensive. I know whey is a very fast digesting protein so I am looking for a high quality slow absorbing protein which i can supplement alongside meals to meet the protein intake I need for strength gains.

What do you guys think of the following:

Pea protein isolate - http://www.myopure.c...in-isolate.html
Rice protein concentrate - http://www.myopure.c...oncentrate.html
Egg white powder - http://www.myopure.c...ite-powder.html

Any help is much appreciated :)

Pea and rice proteins aren't "complete" proteins, so you may want to eat them with other complementary foods to fully utilize them. While more complete in terms of amino acids, egg protein is neither fast or slow digesting. It's slower digesting than whey but faster digesting than casein. If you want a slow digesting protein, casein might be the way to go. Although, long term it may not be ideal.


I believe a pea and rice protein combo is complete.

Steve, you don't have to worry about whey protein, it hardly has any lactose in it. Also, there are things like lactoferrin and immunoglobulins that you don't get in the other vegan proteins. Just make sure you get a high quality undenatured whey protein.

Edited by morganator, 19 November 2010 - 06:33 PM.

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#10 yoyo

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:35 AM

I think they do some fiddling with the amino acid ratios for pea protein at least, so its not exactly like eating a bowl of pea soup.

I use the trueprotein pea protein. They usually have coupons floating around on various sites.

#11 Steve_86

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 08:39 AM

There should also be no lactose in whey protein. Lactose is a sugar that is removed during the purification process. If you can tolerate cheese, you will have no problem with casein.


Whey protein concentrate gives me terrible gas, bloating and stomach discomfort so I'm pretty sure some lactose still remains in it. I’m fine with whey isolate protein. Cheddar and parmesan cheese are ok unless I have too much, cottage cheese and fetta cause me a few problems. I'm not sure how i react to casein protein powder but I am wary of it since I have heard a lot of negative information about it.


Edited by Steve_86, 20 November 2010 - 08:43 AM.


#12 TheFountain

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:13 PM

I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.

#13 Logan

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:11 AM

I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.


You're also missing out on lactoferrin and immunoglobins that you would get with whey. I bet there is a high quality whey that would agree with you more. Also, drinking it in a smoothie with good fiber sources like blueberries and a probiotic would help.
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#14 TheFountain

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:11 AM


I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.


You're also missing out on lactoferrin and immunoglobins that you would get with whey. I bet there is a high quality whey that would agree with you more. Also, drinking it in a smoothie with good fiber sources like blueberries and a probiotic would help.


Well I still do take whey protein also. It usually ends up being my second or third protein shake of the day. About 25 grams. I just noticed a less bloating effect when alternating between it and the pea protein. I will stick with this for a little while and see how it effects my metabolism, muscle and performance. But there was one guy, a vegan bodybuilder, who took nothing but pea protein as his main source and he was pretty muscular. So at the very least it works.

#15 Logan

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:20 PM



I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.


You're also missing out on lactoferrin and immunoglobins that you would get with whey. I bet there is a high quality whey that would agree with you more. Also, drinking it in a smoothie with good fiber sources like blueberries and a probiotic would help.


Well I still do take whey protein also. It usually ends up being my second or third protein shake of the day. About 25 grams. I just noticed a less bloating effect when alternating between it and the pea protein. I will stick with this for a little while and see how it effects my metabolism, muscle and performance. But there was one guy, a vegan bodybuilder, who took nothing but pea protein as his main source and he was pretty muscular. So at the very least it works.


Why so many protein shakes a day? Are you concerned your getting too much protein? I only ask because I'm assuming you are eating other foods with protein in them, even if you are a vegetarian or vegan.

I would try to go with a product that uses both rice and pea as I've read this makes a more complete protein than each used on their own.

#16 TheFountain

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:12 PM




I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.


You're also missing out on lactoferrin and immunoglobins that you would get with whey. I bet there is a high quality whey that would agree with you more. Also, drinking it in a smoothie with good fiber sources like blueberries and a probiotic would help.


Well I still do take whey protein also. It usually ends up being my second or third protein shake of the day. About 25 grams. I just noticed a less bloating effect when alternating between it and the pea protein. I will stick with this for a little while and see how it effects my metabolism, muscle and performance. But there was one guy, a vegan bodybuilder, who took nothing but pea protein as his main source and he was pretty muscular. So at the very least it works.


Why so many protein shakes a day? Are you concerned your getting too much protein? I only ask because I'm assuming you are eating other foods with protein in them, even if you are a vegetarian or vegan.

I would try to go with a product that uses both rice and pea as I've read this makes a more complete protein than each used on their own.


Well considering that rice is a grain I am trying to stay away from it. I don't think I am taking too much protein really, 2-3 servings a day at most. One before workout, one after workout, and depending on energy metabolism on that day, one a little later in the evening. My dietary protein consumption ends up being around 100 grams a day. My supplemental protein around 70 grams. So it's about right for someone who works out vigorously a few times a week. I figure with the vegetable variation I consume I am getting a complete amino acid profile as it is.

Edited by TheFountain, 16 December 2010 - 10:13 PM.


#17 Logan

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 05:35 AM





I've been taking pea protein for about a weak now and it seems to agree with my stomach more than whey protein does. I also do not feel any energy burden with it, so far it's more or less the same as high quality whey isolate in terms of its noticeable effect on energy/performance. Not noticing an emaciating effect either, which seems to indicate that a good portion of it may absorb well. The kind I am using is pea protein isolate from now foods. They sell it fairly cheap on several sites. I have been thinking about taking it with BCAAs just to make it a 'complete protein'. I don't know if it's necessary though.


You're also missing out on lactoferrin and immunoglobins that you would get with whey. I bet there is a high quality whey that would agree with you more. Also, drinking it in a smoothie with good fiber sources like blueberries and a probiotic would help.


Well I still do take whey protein also. It usually ends up being my second or third protein shake of the day. About 25 grams. I just noticed a less bloating effect when alternating between it and the pea protein. I will stick with this for a little while and see how it effects my metabolism, muscle and performance. But there was one guy, a vegan bodybuilder, who took nothing but pea protein as his main source and he was pretty muscular. So at the very least it works.


Why so many protein shakes a day? Are you concerned your getting too much protein? I only ask because I'm assuming you are eating other foods with protein in them, even if you are a vegetarian or vegan.

I would try to go with a product that uses both rice and pea as I've read this makes a more complete protein than each used on their own.


Well considering that rice is a grain I am trying to stay away from it. I don't think I am taking too much protein really, 2-3 servings a day at most. One before workout, one after workout, and depending on energy metabolism on that day, one a little later in the evening. My dietary protein consumption ends up being around 100 grams a day. My supplemental protein around 70 grams. So it's about right for someone who works out vigorously a few times a week. I figure with the vegetable variation I consume I am getting a complete amino acid profile as it is.


I guess that makes more sense if you are weight training and getting a fairly small amount of protein from the foods you eat.

#18 Ark

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:54 AM

I suggest Goat protein mixed with Colostrum.

#19 nasp

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:01 PM

The two best options after whey or casein protein, are egg white protein and soy protein isolate. Egg white protein is a little better than soy protein isolate as it rates higher in the PDCASS score. The best option would be to try and get 99% or 100% lactose free whey protein.

#20 Logan

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:27 AM

The two best options after whey or casein protein, are egg white protein and soy protein isolate. Egg white protein is a little better than soy protein isolate as it rates higher in the PDCASS score. The best option would be to try and get 99% or 100% lactose free whey protein.


I wouldn't touch soy protein isolate.

http://www.google.co...QQZlfUA&cad=rja

If you go with soy protein, Jarrow Formula's Fermented Soy Essence might be the way to go.

http://www.jarrow.co....php?prodid=352

Garden of Life's Raw Protein looks pretty good as a vegan source of protein without soy.

http://www.google.co...cC5NaVw&cad=rja

#21 ajnast4r

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 05:31 PM

i use rice protein mostly and i must warn you if youre planning on using rice the texture takes a little getting used to. i also use egg protein which is a bit salty but a good addition to a mostly vegetable protein containing diet.

youre better off, imo, using isolated BCAA before, during & after your workout than you are a whole protein...


rice proteins aren't "complete" proteins



depending on the brand, after the concentration process rice protein does end up having a complete AA profile... i believe jarrow's rice protein has an AA profile nearly identical to whey.


http://www.jarrow.co...ed_Berry_Flavor

Jarrow FORMULAS® Brown Rice Protein Concentrate is specially processed to provide a complete amino acid profile, providing a vegetarian/vegan protein alternative. The protein quality scores exceed 100% for almost all the amino acids in the product.



#22 Logan

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:29 PM

i use rice protein mostly and i must warn you if youre planning on using rice the texture takes a little getting used to. i also use egg protein which is a bit salty but a good addition to a mostly vegetable protein containing diet.

youre better off, imo, using isolated BCAA before, during & after your workout than you are a whole protein...


rice proteins aren't "complete" proteins



depending on the brand, after the concentration process rice protein does end up having a complete AA profile... i believe jarrow's rice protein has an AA profile nearly identical to whey.


http://www.jarrow.co...ed_Berry_Flavor

Jarrow FORMULAS® Brown Rice Protein Concentrate is specially processed to provide a complete amino acid profile, providing a vegetarian/vegan protein alternative. The protein quality scores exceed 100% for almost all the amino acids in the product.


But no matter what you do with them, don't all plant sourced proteins fall short of being as complete as egg and whey? I spoke to someone at Garden Of Life and he even admitted that after everything they did with their Raw Protein, it still was about 97 percent a complete protein as compared to whey. All it takes is for a protein to be missing just a small amount to fall short of what muscles need to fully utilize it. Right???

#23 ajnast4r

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:48 PM

But no matter what you do with them, don't all plant sourced proteins fall short of being as complete as egg and whey? I spoke to someone at Garden Of Life and he even admitted that after everything they did with their Raw Protein, it still was about 97 percent a complete protein as compared to whey. All it takes is for a protein to be missing just a small amount to fall short of what muscles need to fully utilize it. Right???


im not sure what threshold they use to define 'as complete as'... imo, unless your ONLY source of protein is rice then the complete/incomplete issue is really NOT an issue. what matters is your overall protein intake being complete not on a dose by dose basis... the only strict vegans could possibly have issues with overall incomplete protein intake, and even among those they would have a very limited diet lacking any diversity. also the AA's utilized by muscles (bcaa+glu) are not the amino acids that are lacking making a protein incomplete, so as far as muscle utilization goes its a non issue.

#24 Logan

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 05:46 AM


But no matter what you do with them, don't all plant sourced proteins fall short of being as complete as egg and whey? I spoke to someone at Garden Of Life and he even admitted that after everything they did with their Raw Protein, it still was about 97 percent a complete protein as compared to whey. All it takes is for a protein to be missing just a small amount to fall short of what muscles need to fully utilize it. Right???


im not sure what threshold they use to define 'as complete as'... imo, unless your ONLY source of protein is rice then the complete/incomplete issue is really NOT an issue. what matters is your overall protein intake being complete not on a dose by dose basis... the only strict vegans could possibly have issues with overall incomplete protein intake, and even among those they would have a very limited diet lacking any diversity. also the AA's utilized by muscles (bcaa+glu) are not the amino acids that are lacking making a protein incomplete, so as far as muscle utilization goes its a non issue.


I thought that just a few amino acids missing from the mix can throw off the ability of the body to fully utilize the protein? I need to read more into this subject.

#25 ajnast4r

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:51 PM

I thought that just a few amino acids missing from the mix can throw off the ability of the body to fully utilize the protein? I need to read more into this subject.



its not that any AA is totally missing, its that the percentage is much lower than found in other foods... lets say lysine (and im making these numbers up) is +-10% in most foods but -70% in rice. that's what makes it incomplete. it has no effect on the bodies ability to digest and utilize that actual protein, its just that an overall deficiency in a specific AA will have detrimental effect.

if you have a protein low in lysine for breakfast, and a protein high in lysine for lunch... your AA pool is now 'complete'. complimenting proteins don't need to be eaten at the same time, just the overall balance needs to be complete... and with vegetarians eating dairy & eggs its completely a non-issue. the only people who would really have this issue are vegans who eat the same thing day in and day out.

#26 yoyo

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:30 PM


I thought that just a few amino acids missing from the mix can throw off the ability of the body to fully utilize the protein? I need to read more into this subject.



its not that any AA is totally missing, its that the percentage is much lower than found in other foods... lets say lysine (and im making these numbers up) is +-10% in most foods but -70% in rice. that's what makes it incomplete. it has no effect on the bodies ability to digest and utilize that actual protein, its just that an overall deficiency in a specific AA will have detrimental effect.

if you have a protein low in lysine for breakfast, and a protein high in lysine for lunch... your AA pool is now 'complete'. complimenting proteins don't need to be eaten at the same time, just the overall balance needs to be complete... and with vegetarians eating dairy & eggs its completely a non-issue. the only people who would really have this issue are vegans who eat the same thing day in and day out.


Yeah the studies on this are usually done in the context of 'starving 3rd world peasant who gets most of their diet from rice'

#27 sthira

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:31 PM

I'm ignorant about why folks consume protein powders to raise protein levels above the RDA. For big muscles? For bone health? In terms of bone health, this study says "there is not enough evidence currently to suggest that animal protein is superior or inferior to vegetable protein, or that milk or soy protein, respectively, is more favorable than other protein
sources."


The interaction between dietary protein and bone health.
Jesudason D, Clifton P. J Bone Miner Metab. 2011 Jan;29(1):1-14. Epub 2010 Oct 26.
PMID: 20972896

#28 ajnast4r

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:39 PM

I'm ignorant about why folks consume protein powders to raise protein levels above the RDA. For big muscles? For bone health? In terms of bone health, this study says "there is not enough evidence currently to suggest that animal protein is superior or inferior to vegetable protein, or that milk or soy protein, respectively, is more favorable than other protein
sources."


The interaction between dietary protein and bone health.
Jesudason D, Clifton P. J Bone Miner Metab. 2011 Jan;29(1):1-14. Epub 2010 Oct 26.
PMID: 20972896



the RDA (.8g/kg)is sufficient to allow proper functioning... increasing above the RDA (up to 1.8g/kg) can increase muscle growth and performance in some cases. there is some evidence that even higher levels can increase muscle growth if the person is training properly.

most people, including athletes and bodybuilders, consume WAY way too much protein based on gym rat science, re: it gets you HHHYYYYUUUUGGGEE
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#29 sthira

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:54 PM

Ok. More ignorance on my part, but do we think getting huge is good for life extension? Jack Lalane was healthy, of course. Yet a body of evidence suggests smaller, thinner people may be healthier for the long haul through this existence. And is this particular website aimed at increased longevity, or increased muscle growth for performance athletes? I'm not being argumentative.

#30 yoyo

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:39 PM

Ok. More ignorance on my part, but do we think getting huge is good for life extension? Jack Lalane was healthy, of course. Yet a body of evidence suggests smaller, thinner people may be healthier for the long haul through this existence. And is this particular website aimed at increased longevity, or increased muscle growth for performance athletes? I'm not being argumentative.


some people are interested in both living a long time, and being healthy and active while alive. I think talking about cost or something of choices is ok, and that doesn't even involve overlapping knowledge the way logetivity and athletic function do




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