8 replies to this topic

[jcc80]

I know that it is said sam-e degrades quickly without blister packaging, and that without enteric coating, it gets destroyed by stomach acid. How true is this? More specifically, just how important is this? I have tried sam-e several times and been happy with the results. Only problem is, I'm temporarily broke, and prices are outrageous. I see sam-e online, in non-blister-packed form, possibly without enteric coating, and the price is SO much cheaper that I'm tempted. Is it useless?

[JKDC]

I know that it is said sam-e degrades quickly without blister packaging, and that without enteric coating, it gets destroyed by stomach acid. How true is this? More specifically, just how important is this? I have tried sam-e several times and been happy with the results. Only problem is, I'm temporarily broke, and prices are outrageous. I see sam-e online, in non-blister-packed form, possibly without enteric coating, and the price is SO much cheaper that I'm tempted. Is it useless?

My advice is to get it at Walgreen's. They run a sale on Nature Made every 2-3 weeks. It is buy one get one free which comes out to 72 400mg enteric coated tablets for $42 or so which is about the cheapest I have found.

[Ark]

If your smart you can wait til walgreens does a buy one get one free.

they do it every month promise/

[maxwatt]

If you have the MTHFR polymorphism you might benefit as much from the right form of folate, and it is much cheaper than SAM-e. (MTHFR is needed for the body to make SAM-e.)

The polymorphism is quite common, affecting about 45% of the population. Heterozygous individuals are 60% as efficient, homozygous individuals 30% as efficient as those with the "normal" enzyme for processing folic acid. Folic acid is the form that is added to food and is in most supplemnts, but with MTHFR it is ineffective. "MetaFolin" or folinic acid (5-methyl tetrahydro folate) is a form of folate that bypasses the enzyme, and is the form needed amd used by one's body..

There are several brands with this form of the vitamin.

[strake]

Folinic acid, 5-formyltetrahydrofolate, is not the same as metafolin, 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, which (the latter) is the active form in vivo, and what ought to be in one's supplements. I'm not sure how folinic acid is metabolized to the active form, but metafolin is well-absorbed anyway, and need not be metabolized.

If taking supplemental B₉ (i.e, folic acid, folinic acid, metafolin) then be sure to take B₁₂ also -- B₉ can mask a B₁₂ deficiency and B₁₂ is needed to make SAM anyway. Also, B₆ would not be amiss, but be careful -- the common form, pyridoxine, can cause neuropathy in excess. However, pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, in an EFSA report, was not found to cause such neuropathy.

That, as far as I know, is sufficient to synthesize SAM -- no need to swallow it.

[jcc80]

Interesting. I do believe I am looking in the right direction. I responded very well to sam-e in the past, going up to 1600mg at times, although there was no way I could sustain that level due to cost. I have spent the last 4 months on bupropion instead of sam-e, then as of two days ago, I quit bupropion and went back to 800mg of sam-e, and I definitely like it better. So, I'm definitely looking to find the most cost-effective way to do this.

I have noticed (haven't ruled out placebo) that taking a b-complex vitamin, which obviously has folic acid, tends to put me in a crappy, dull, and apathetic mood. Could it be possible that this MTHFR issue could cause that? There will be no DNA or lab testing, as I'm short on money and no insurance, so this will all be trial and error.

If I could get the desired results with much cheaper things such as TMG or methylfolate, I would be all over that.

[JKDC]

You could try taking B complex with everything already converted. P5P,R5P,5-MTHF,methylcobalamin. It sounds like you are taking it for osteoarthritis though and I don't think B vitamins would be enough. The B vitamins will help remethylate the Sam-e and it is possible you need a lower dose of Sam-e if you take the B vitamins.

You need a supplement like this one. There might be a cheaper version available if you search around as this one wouldn't save you much money. Have you tried Glucosamine and/or chondroitan already?

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/18791?at=0

[maxwatt]

Folinic acid, 5-formyltetrahydrofolate, is not the same as metafolin, 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, which (the latter) is the active form in vivo, and what ought to be in one's supplements. I'm not sure how folinic acid is metabolized to the active form, but metafolin is well-absorbed anyway, and need not be metabolized.

If taking supplemental B₉ (i.e, folic acid, folinic acid, metafolin) then be sure to take B₁₂ also -- B₉ can mask a B₁₂ deficiency and B₁₂ is needed to make SAM anyway. Also, B₆ would not be amiss, but be careful -- the common form, pyridoxine, can cause neuropathy in excess. However, pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, in an EFSA report, was not found to cause such neuropathy.

That, as far as I know, is sufficient to synthesize SAM -- no need to swallow it.

Thank you for clarifying that. Folic acid is metabolized to folinic acid, which is technically the active form in the body, but it has to be further metabolized to methyl folate. More information is HERE.

[JKDC]

Interesting. I do believe I am looking in the right direction. I responded very well to sam-e in the past, going up to 1600mg at times, although there was no way I could sustain that level due to cost. I have spent the last 4 months on bupropion instead of sam-e, then as of two days ago, I quit bupropion and went back to 800mg of sam-e, and I definitely like it better. So, I'm definitely looking to find the most cost-effective way to do this.

I have noticed (haven't ruled out placebo) that taking a b-complex vitamin, which obviously has folic acid, tends to put me in a crappy, dull, and apathetic mood. Could it be possible that this MTHFR issue could cause that? There will be no DNA or lab testing, as I'm short on money and no insurance, so this will all be trial and error.

If I could get the desired results with much cheaper things such as TMG or methylfolate, I would be all over that.

On my earlier post I mistook bupropion for an anti-inflammatory. Sorry for that. It is a good idea to take all B vitamins at once but 5-MTHF and methylcoblamin are the supplements that remethylate SAM-e. I looked for 5MTHF and methylcobalamin individually but they end up costing the same as the earlier supplement I linked. And it would require 2 per day to get enough of both to see if it helped. But it would also help lower homocysteine levels as well. I don't know if you could totally give up Sam-e though, but maybe you would be okay with 200-400mg per day if you also took the B vitmains.