30 replies to this topic

[pjmc]

Has anyone ever heard of or used berberine for hyperglycemia / blood sugar control?

Apparently it works very well for dropping blood sugar fast, started taking it and it made me drop very low.. and I'm usually having a hard time keeping my BS levels down due to type 2 diabetes.

Can anyone speak from experience of using this? thanks

[leha]

I've never tried it, but am very curious how it's going with you, and if it's good, would you mind telliung me what kind/brand you are trying?

[John Barleycorn]

I have used it more out of an interest in reducing cholesterol and avoiding statins. I had persistently high levels around 8 for 20 years, with diet making no difference at all. I got that level down to a normal 5.5 in 3 months, using a combination of Oregon grape root, fish oil and a B complex (being my first foray into supplements). It's possible to buy synthetic berberine on-line (do a search on "Yellow Gold"), but there is also a school of thought that plant extracts have better bioavailability due to the presence of flavonoids and other substances which accompany the alkaloid. I chose the grape root because of concerns about overharvesting of wild goldenseal. As it turns out, however, I have a weed containing berberine growing all throughout my backyard, in the shape of Mexican poppy.

[zorba990]

Would like to know what is considered the best source for berberine? Oregon Grape Root? I hoping to add it to my brother's regimen to protect and heal a pancreatic issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berberine
http://diabetes.diab...1-1164.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2760199/
http://www.sciencedi...308814611015184
http://coolinginflam...ncreatitis.html

Sources?
http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/46113

Edited by zorba990, 21 October 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[dear mrclock]

most plants containing berberine also contain toxic compounds in combo as well. you need a lot to get good dose of berberine but the other toxic compounds will interfere. im not sure how can you use plant extracts for it. maybe the berberine by itself is better choice ? but its one of the most expensive substances out there. for a gram it goes to 200 dollars. http://www.ktbotanic...ine-p-7553.html

[8bitmore]

Berberine is not that expensive: can be bought for $9.99 from Swanson for an example.. I have used that brand as a source on and off for last year; I'm sure its good for me but its not the kind of substance that makes a big subjective difference (might be different if I was trying to cure something specific but as it stands I've been taking it for the potential long term benefits). Warning, EXTREMELY bitter, keep this stuff in the capsules it comes in!

[dear mrclock]

i checked amazon and all the berberine supplements that are high quality do not cost anything less than $20. swanson seems to contain a plant extract that has berberine but its not clearly how much and how often you need to take to get an effect. wiki says it can be availavble in your system for up to 3 hours which means constant dosing throughout the day. if swanson is actually worth anything, you need to take so many a day, 60 caps wont last you long anyway. so the low price is not really that big of a deal.

[smithx]

What about this one? http://www.swansonvi...-400-mg-60-caps

It contains "Berberine HCL (from Berberis aristata root) 400 mg". That clearly seems to be saying it's 400mg of berberine.

[dear mrclock]

is swanson good quality manufacturer ? its strange that everywhere else you check, the supplements of berberine are so expensive in comparison.
something that i decided to throw out there as curiousity factor.

[anon2042]

I am using Thorne Researche's Berbercap which is pure berberine. I got it for helping clear out an infection, but I read later that the levels in your body even after taking pure berberine would be too low. Interestingly I do have higher than normal cholesterol genetically but I don't plan to take it long enough to test. I saw something called GlycoX with banba (sp?) extract that had very high levels, but I couldn't take it due to the gelatin cap.

I plan to take it until the bottle is run out..I did notice that I had some odd colored mucus that seemed to clear up after taking it, but then I got sick again, so who knows. Be careful with berberine - it can interact with a lot of other herbs/drugs:
"Has been shown to decrease the activity of the cytochrome p450 (CYP) enzymes CYP2D6, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4."

[dear mrclock]

tons of supplements out there screw around with the usual cytochrome enzymes. its hard to keep and try to seperate and avoid problems. anyway, so you just took it for some infection ? any good results ? i was wondering what else that is positive you noticed from using it. i read it has wide range of health pro affects beyond just well known use for infections. and its true, you need a lot more than usual and dose regularly to reach good blood levels as it clears out quickly in 3-4 hours time.

[anon2042]

It's hard to say whether it helped - I was excited after finding out about its possible mood effects (it is a very small component of Relora, which I also take). I am only taking 2 capsules a day since it seems to be a more heavy drug that interferes with things more. I certainly would not be taking it over a long period of time without stopping.

I had a latent non group A strep infection that wasn't causing me many obvious side effects past green colored mucus, that an antibiotic didn't seem to clear up, and actually gave me a fungal skin rash due to weakening my system. I used an anti-fungal cream for several months and it never quite cleared up. When I started using the berberine, I noticed that the color of the mucus and that nasty rash finally got better. But I feel like it's hard to say, the rash was on its way out, and was made worse by the hot weather. I did over the weekend get a cold that developed quite quickly and seemed to run its course a lot differently than when I get sick, it was only bad for one evening. Now the yucky mucus is back since I'm still sick but I wonder if the berberine strengthened my system to get over the worst of things pretty quickly.

I would say give it a try. It made me constipated, but I welcomed that, since I've had some kind of IBS since stopping antidepressants.

[dear mrclock]

i see. quite confusing report and there is hardly any definitive proof berberine is helpful. good you mentioned the possible mood effects, which i was going for actually. i have read quite a bit relating that and i have seen it in relora as ingredient as well. but so far i guess its unclear and nobody ever reported anything related to this before on the board. anyway if i wasnt taking so much other shit already i might try it.
for IBS and antidepression relation is that, 90% of serotonin is located in the colon so that would explain disturbances when you do too much antidepressants or stop them over time. maybe probiotics help ? not sure just something i read for IBS.

anyway, thanks for sharing this, hope you stick around the forum more

Edited by dear mrclock, 26 October 2012 - 05:30 AM.

[anon2042]

thanks, I come by from time to time, but I'm much slower in tweaking the supps I take. I'd post if I saw any huge effects from any one thing, but it's difficult.

I can't find that article I found where it said that berberine should have little effect if taken internally...but yeah, if you're taking a ton of other stuff I would not try it. Other than just basic vitamins, Omega 3s, and some enzymes, all I'm taking is Relora (now with a small bit of bacopa in that brand). So tweaking around isn't too dangerous, but berberine just seems like a more intrusive herb than other things. It's too bad though that my cholesterol isn't high enough at the moment to get another blood test, because that would be interesting to see how it affected my lipid profile. However when/if you do try it, you may want to check out this brand: "GlycoX 500 with Berberine HCL 500mg" on Amazon. The dose is much higher so it doesn't turn out to be as expensive, and it has added banaba leaf which is supposed to help moreso with the blood sugar stuff. (I couldn't try it due to the gelatin capsules). It gets good reviews but I've heard mixed things about people using it for this purpose.

Thanks for the tip on IBS. It's just kind of a self diagnosis since no one can figure out why I've had so much digestive trouble for half the year, but that's around the time when I stopped my 10+ year streak of meds, so I'm guessing either the meds had a side effect of constipating me or the little they were doing was balancing things out enough for me not to have more physical problems. Since I was little I have a strong tendency to somatize...The only thing that's seemed to help so far (other than the berbine side effect) is sometimes mixing medicinal clay in with tea. It is really neat, if you haven't heard of it before - it draws out toxins from your system.

If you do start on it, let me know too. I guess technically I will still be taking the tiny amount in the Relora daily. I'm excited to take another blood test to see if it really helped my cortisol and DHEA levels

Edited by amnesiagirl, 26 October 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[deeptrance]

I can't find that article I found where it said that berberine should have little effect if taken internally...but yeah, if you're taking a ton of other stuff I would not try it.

Everything about berberine: http://examine.com/s...e/#summary_full

I think I just replied to you in a different berberine thread but for anyone who doesn't see that one then I'll repeat here, berberine has very low bioavailability unless taken with p-glycoprotein inhibitors. This may affect absorption of medications, so it's best to take the berberine and p-gp inhibitors apart from any meds that need p-gp for uptake. The article in Examine goes into all of this and much more.

[Area-1255]

Beberine is a very interesting chemical indeed, although the pharmacology of it is very very complex. I plan to write an article on it soon.

 

[cuprous]

As always.. hard to definitively say what's causing what.  But my experience with berberine has been quite positive.  Prior to berberine supplementation by last Hb1ac reading was 5.10.  After a couple months on berberine it was 5.2.   Were there other factors involved?  Possibly.

 

I also used to get something like hypoglycemic attacks -- shaky, nausea, feeling very weak like I'm going to throw up or faint.  Not pleasant.  Since taking 1-2 400mg caps a day those feelings have disappeared.  Studies have shown berberine supplementation to be as effective as metformin.

 

It's one of few a small number of supplements that I feel has had a pronounced effect.

 

As to the "berberine has very low bioavailability unless taken with p-glycoprotein inhibitors" observation, I some times take it with milk thistle per the examine.com article.. but milk thistle itself is known to have poor bioavailability.  Of the few studies I've looked at I haven't seen any mention that it was co-supplemented with anything.  Maybe we only need a small number of mg to cross into the bloodstream.

[normalizing]

Beberine is a very interesting chemical indeed, although the pharmacology of it is very very complex. I plan to write an article on it soon.

 

if you ever do that, please refer us to it by starting a seperate thread. im quite interested and it will be greatly appreciated if you can invest time into gathering what you can and helping to share information

[Christian Hunter]

I am using Thorne Researche's Berbercap which is pure berberine. I got it for helping clear out an infection, but I read later that the levels in your body even after taking pure berberine would be too low. Interestingly I do have higher than normal cholesterol genetically but I don't plan to take it long enough to test. I saw something called GlycoX with banba (sp?) extract that had very high levels, but I couldn't take it due to the gelatin cap.

I plan to take it until the bottle is run out..I did notice that I had some odd colored mucus that seemed to clear up after taking it, but then I got sick again, so who knows. Be careful with berberine - it can interact with a lot of other herbs/drugs:
"Has been shown to decrease the activity of the cytochrome p450 (CYP) enzymes CYP2D6, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4."

 

I just did a quick search to find interactions between berberine and PDE5's (like Viagra, Levitra, etc) and could find nothing, but I clearly remember reading that there was a potentially dangerous interaction between the two.

[Charles Thompson]

I’ve used this in a few supplements - it’s pretty common ingredient in a standard GDA. Never seen it standalone though so hard to assess its merits that way.

[joelcairo]

I looked in a few locations and the only connection to Viagra I found was that berberine inhibits P450 3A4 to some degree, so it can interfere with the liver's breakdown of Viagra and quite a few other drugs that are based on the same substrate.
 

Edited by joelcairo, 02 November 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[recon]

Do you think berberine is healthful for healthy individuals?
Maybe something like metformin?

Planning to take them both.

[recon]

Anyone have any idea about berberine for healthy individuals? Bump.

[Nate-2004]

I've been taking it in 3 day cycles 3 times a day at low dose (300 to 400mg) during fission cycle.  I can't say I've had any negative effects so far.

[able]

I've taken 500-1,000 mg Berberine for a couple years now. 

 

Seems to help my blood glucose numbers, but not needed for that since I went keto 18 months ago.

 

Like Nate, I am trying to cycle it on fission/exercise days and take a break a few days a week.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

Just to add, the problem is that nobody knows yet what berberine's mechanism of action is in terms of lowering blood sugar and the other effects that are similar to metformin. I take low dose not just because of this but because there are many studies showing better results with a low dose and worse results with a high dose. So I play it safe and do just roughly 300mg 3 times per day which only comes out to 900.

Edited by Nate-2004, 13 November 2017 - 07:57 PM.

[normalizing]

i am an example of someone who reads into wikipedia too much. i read about berberine on wikipedia about 5 years ago, and it had some of the most amazing research i have seen about any plant compound including anti cancer, anti anything really, inflammation and glycation and just general good tonic for health. anyway, my mistake, but i did follow on its anti- depressant research which included tons of sources btw which to this day baffles me, but it was so conviencing i could not just avoid it at this point. so anyway, i buy it, i take high doses of it because thats what the sources say regarding depression cure, and i end up with violent yellow diarrhea! ive never felt a single good thing from this stuff except some of the most violent yellow diarrhea i can remember!!!

 

conclusion; be careful, dont trust wikipedia, and certainly dont trust most natural sources as being proclaimed as cure-all

[PhaQ]

You guys take it on exercise days? I seem to remember reading somewhere that berberine hindered muscle growth.

Ha! Found it. Here's a link to where I originally read it https://web.archive....-for-berberine/

I'd try to get the actual link to the study but I'm on my phone right now.

[mati5000]

Berberine destroyed my mood and worsed my erections. Because this block 5α-Reductase enzyme like finasterine which leads to downregulate some GABA-A receptors. (let's not talk about other unknown properties)

 

Since then, I've had the focus of a 60-year-old man. I don't really understand what people see in this supplement?

 

Thanks.

[kurdishfella]

I always wondered why effects remain when you go off something and I think it's not that your gene activity has not gone back to normal but the receptors it activated now works differently due to effect on brain more obvious.