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ecklonia cava (ece) for ED - source please


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22 replies to this topic

#1 Mr. Pink

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:15 AM


i'm looking for a non-pharmaceutical solution for erectile dysfunction (not getting erection and erection not lasting very long). A lot of people quote this study where scientists followed 31 men for 6 months and showed that ecklonia cava extract works as well as viagra. but no one sites the source. So i don't know if it's true, or what dosage is necessary. Can anyone help me?

#2 shuffleup

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 06:07 PM

Check out this thread at M&M. Some users noted the effects you are looking for.

http://www.mindandmu...__1#entry638185

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#3 malbecman

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:40 PM

A quick search of Pubmed (most of the published academic research journals) for "ecklonia cava" shows only 12 results, most of them on it's anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects. Nothing at all on ED or anything to do with reproduction.

#4 Thorsten3

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 10:14 PM

It gave me potent wood and the best memory enhancing effects from anything I have ever tried. I gave it up because it made me over-focused. Jeez it sounds kinda awesome by the way I describe it. I suppose curcumin was more suited to my needs and in the end I ditched Ecklonia as I didn't think I really needed it.

This guy claims it is the best thing since sliced bread:

http://securepubs.co...TTO_SOZZ09.html

I have trouble trusting somebody that looks exactly like lieutenant colombo though....

Edited by Thorsten, 11 April 2011 - 10:15 PM.


#5 Thorsten3

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 10:18 PM

Apparantly there is one human study so the hyped up magical benefits should be taken with a pinch of salt.

However, anecdotally speaking, it had clear benefits for me with ED and memory which is a clear indication that there is something going on with how it is effecting your blood flow.

In comparison to something like Gingko, I can actually notice what it is doing for me.

In terms of brands I am pretty sure fibroboost by nutriciogoly is the way to go kids. Have fun.

Edited by Thorsten, 12 April 2011 - 09:21 AM.


#6 Mr. Pink

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:36 AM

thorsten, what is the effective dose? where is this human study? source please

#7 Thorsten3

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:53 AM

Well it has a 12hr coverage apparantly so taking two a day should suffice although some people take 3. I would definitely recommend the brand above. Like everything else there are cack brands out there that do nothing.

The study is in that thread that's been linked above. It's on post 24. According to those guys at M&M that's the only human study. All the rest has been done on rats.

I can only speak from personal experience but it had noticible effects for me, as long as you dose it properly (i.e, taking one a day and expecting to see a result might or might not work depending on your sensistivity to it/what brand you're taking,etc). So I just stuck to the 2 a day. I would have taken three a day but it's not the most cheapest of supplements.

People might be concerned about such a little studied product. My biggest worry is that it might come laced with mercury or something. Who knows what's in your supplements though?

Edited by Thorsten, 12 April 2011 - 07:57 AM.


#8 FrankEd

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:47 PM

Why Full Spectrum Ecklonia Cava from Swanson is cheaper than the product from Nutricology?

#9 Mr. Pink

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 10:10 AM

Why Full Spectrum Ecklonia Cava from Swanson is cheaper than the product from Nutricology?


the full spectrum has a lower % of the active ingredient when compared to the extract in fibroboost by ntricology. After reading for a while, i decided to go with the swanson exctract (as opposed to the full spectrum) and expect results within 10 days.

#10 stillwater

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:53 PM

I decided to to give this a shot. I received the Fibroboost version a few days ago and already can attest to the erection side of things. Kicked in pretty fast. As someone else mentioned in this thread, it does kind of remind me of a ginko like effect, the blood rush above the shoulders and below the waistline.

I'm not experiencing any of the purported anti anxiety or deep sleep effects so far unfortunately.
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#11 Lovetolearn

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:39 AM

I decided to to give this a shot. I received the Fibroboost version a few days ago and already can attest to the erection side of things. Kicked in pretty fast. As someone else mentioned in this thread, it does kind of remind me of a ginko like effect, the blood rush above the shoulders and below the waistline.

I'm not experiencing any of the purported anti anxiety or deep sleep effects so far unfortunately.



Looks like I'll give the Fibroboost brand a try then. I've been taking 480mg of the 98% full extract for 6 days now with absolutely zero discernible effect. If anything it's making me tired as I have been sleeping alot this past week. I could bump the dosage up even more (bottle recommends 2 pills a day, I've been taking 3) but it's not exactly the cheapest supplement.

#12 Huckfinn

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 02:11 PM

Stillwater and Lovetolearn: any developments?

 

Thanks.



#13 TerryFirmer

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 01:57 PM

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but here is the original paper that includes the study of 31 men using brown algae extract for ED (attached).

 

The subjects took 2.4g/day of an extract (I think it was an extract rather than just powdered algae) called VNP. It is no longer produced, as far as I can find out (I asked someone in Korea to check for me). It's not clear to me whether VNP consisted solely of E Cava or E Bicyclis too. Maybe someone can make more sense of the paper than I can?

Attached Files



#14 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 02:06 PM

I had a project for ecklonia cava in past, and we tested by LC-MS-MSn samples from eckloniacava.com (the supplier for the ecklonia cava extract from swanson) and we did not found any phlorotannins ! It contained molecules similar to the ones in pine bark, that makes our scientist to conclude that these samples was definitely NOT ECKLONIA CAVA ! This is a total shame knowing they claim to have a 98% pure ecklonia cava extract

 

If you order ecklonia cava, the only supplement on the market we think is ok is the one from korea: fibroboost (also sold on swanson).

 

 


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#15 TerryFirmer

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 02:17 PM

I had a project for ecklonia cava in past, and we tested by LC-MS-MSn samples from eckloniacava.com (the supplier for the ecklonia cava extract from swanson) and we did not found any phlorotannins ! It contained molecules similar to the ones in pine bark, that makes our scientist to conclude that these samples was definitely NOT ECKLONIA CAVA ! This is a total shame knowing they claim to have a 98% pure ecklonia cava extract

 

If you order ecklonia cava, the only supplement on the market we think is ok is the one from korea: fibroboost (also sold on swanson).

 

Wow that's pretty shocking! Doubly so because I just today received two (expensive) bottles of Ford-Speranza ECE as sold by eckloniacava dot com.

 

This guy seems to think they're totally legit, having supposedly received documentation from them, and he has written a good summary about ECE: http://www.mnwelldir...rition/ece1.htm

 

"Ford-Speranza just one ECE product presently (05/01/12) containing a mega dose of ECE compared to all the other ECE products.  Ford-Speranza sent me its product assay and purity documents."

 

Tom, are you sure it was the Ford-Speranza product that you tested?



#16 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 02:44 PM

 

I had a project for ecklonia cava in past, and we tested by LC-MS-MSn samples from eckloniacava.com (the supplier for the ecklonia cava extract from swanson) and we did not found any phlorotannins ! It contained molecules similar to the ones in pine bark, that makes our scientist to conclude that these samples was definitely NOT ECKLONIA CAVA ! This is a total shame knowing they claim to have a 98% pure ecklonia cava extract

 

If you order ecklonia cava, the only supplement on the market we think is ok is the one from korea: fibroboost (also sold on swanson).

 

Wow that's pretty shocking! Doubly so because I just today received two (expensive) bottles of Ford-Speranza ECE as sold by eckloniacava dot com.

 

This guy seems to think they're totally legit, having supposedly received documentation from them, and he has written a good summary about ECE: http://www.mnwelldir...rition/ece1.htm

 

"Ford-Speranza just one ECE product presently (05/01/12) containing a mega dose of ECE compared to all the other ECE products.  Ford-Speranza sent me its product assay and purity documents."

 

Tom, are you sure it was the Ford-Speranza product that you tested?

 

 

I know I know and yes it is...

 

I used to want to collaborate with them using my dietary supplement company (as swanson did, nothing more nothing else) but finally I use to study the topic deeper in order to patent an extraction process using ecklonia cava. However, it was too hard to obtain the raw material, the project is not gone, but still highly delayed, and we focus currently on another herb.

 

We did test Ford-Speranza two times as 50 grams samples and also others from china. Ford Speranza was definitely not ecklonia cava unlike what they want us to think: brown powder... wich is actually another extract, our french lab (INRA Montpellier- France) think it is pine bark extract..

 

So are Ford-Speranza knowing they do not sell ecklonia cava ? I dont know, but since they sell it for years its a total shame they didnt control it.. We did have from them every data, and finally not ecklonia cava...

 

We tested also a 30% polyphenols ecklonia cava extract from china: it was indeed containing 30% polyphenols using Folin C method (cheap), but then we tested in our assay LC-MS-MSn protocol and all those was oxidized ! means 0% useful ! but at the origin we think it was well ecklonia cava or a similar seaweed (byciclis etc)

 

I even wanted to publish the result online using a bailif to certifiy the batch comes well from them but lot of expense (+ possible lawsuit) for nothing at the end since we now focus on others projects..

 

EDIT: if anyone is interested to promote the truth about them, Im ok to provide data if they want to make their own test prior to warning them: order sample from them as anonymous customer, and test it at your own. You will probably get same result as we did (2 times, 100% of the samples we tested)


Edited by Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi), 29 November 2016 - 02:55 PM.

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#17 TerryFirmer

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:37 AM

Tom, many thanks for that. I have written to Ford-Speranza and their US distributor Simply The Best to get their reaction to your findings.



#18 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:30 AM

Tom, many thanks for that. I have written to Ford-Speranza and their US distributor Simply The Best to get their reaction to your findings.

 

Your welcome, but I think its the last thing to do... They will now simply deny everything and try to be more careful on their batch. This last part will still be hard actually as its not possible to extract phlorotannins using a water extraction (We did test the solubility..).. Maybe its the reason why they choose an actual similar extract (pine bark) instead of ecklonia cava ? I dont know, but they cheated people for years and should be sued for that.

 

I do recomend instead to order some grams from them as anonymous name, or even better ask a bailif to order and perform the test.. It cost money but at least a realistic way to make them close for lie maybe



#19 TerryFirmer

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:22 PM

Ford-Speranza/Marine Technology Corp has indeed defended its product in the strongest terms. A spokesman for the company said:

 

"There are 3 products evaluated in this test and accordingly, our Ecklonia Cava was identified as 1407-TABN01. There is no way to know if Mr. Thomas Andre's statement is true, also, can you be sure that this identification number corresponds to our product? Further more, Mr. Thomas Andre, had placed a blog in one of our client's site. This was brought to my attention and upon further investigation by our client, it was revealed that Mr. Thomas Andre is definitely undermining our company for reasons unknown. He's on a very slippery slop, that could result in a law suit. 

 
There are stringent laws put out by the FDA that govern all herbal products. When we encapsulate our Ecklonia Cava, the encapsulation company has to do tests to make sure that the certificate of analysis that we provide, corresponds with the test results. Our Ecklonia Cava has been tested by many professional enterprises around the World during the last 8 years and if there were problems, we would have known. We are the manufacturer, and I can assure you that we produce the finest Ecklonia cava in the world."
 
They sent me several documents, three of which are attached: A CoA, the product specification, and a description of the method used to assay the product.

Attached Files



#20 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:14 PM

 

Ford-Speranza/Marine Technology Corp has indeed defended its product in the strongest terms. A spokesman for the company said:

 

"There are 3 products evaluated in this test and accordingly, our Ecklonia Cava was identified as 1407-TABN01. There is no way to know if Mr. Thomas Andre's statement is true, also, can you be sure that this identification number corresponds to our product? Further more, Mr. Thomas Andre, had placed a blog in one of our client's site. This was brought to my attention and upon further investigation by our client, it was revealed that Mr. Thomas Andre is definitely undermining our company for reasons unknown. He's on a very slippery slop, that could result in a law suit. 

 
There are stringent laws put out by the FDA that govern all herbal products. When we encapsulate our Ecklonia Cava, the encapsulation company has to do tests to make sure that the certificate of analysis that we provide, corresponds with the test results. Our Ecklonia Cava has been tested by many professional enterprises around the World during the last 8 years and if there were problems, we would have known. We are the manufacturer, and I can assure you that we produce the finest Ecklonia cava in the world."
 
They sent me several documents, three of which are attached: A CoA, the product specification, and a description of the method used to assay the product.

 

 

Terry, you did the worst thing I advised to not. Now they reply is just awesome: they do not provide any data, as you can see that their extract is well ecklonia cava  and do not provide any data that their extract contains phlorotannins.

 

What they did indeed is test the total polyphenol content using gallic acid Folin C method wich is VERY cheap and not reliable. You will even count sugar and oxidized polyphenols, you cant know polyphenols structure or whatever using this.

 

The test we did, is much more expensive: we performed LC-MS-MSn to check polyphenol structure and did found proanthocyanidin wich are condensated tannins, something that do not contains ecklonia cava



#21 TerryFirmer

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:29 AM

Tom, you've made some very serious allegations against Ford-Speranza and it's only right that they have a chance to refute them.

 

You said "The test we did, is much more expensive: we performed LC-MS-MSn to check polyphenol structure". Who is 'we' exactly?

 

You went to the trouble of doing an expensive test which might lead someone to believe that you work for a competitor to Ford-Speranza. Apparently you endorse only Fibroboost which contains Seanol on your blog. Do you work for LiveChem, the producers of Seanol, or for one of their distributors? Do you gain financially from endorsing Seanol?

 

Is it true that Seanol contains only 13% ECE and 87% dextrin?

 

I'm told that Swanson use Ford-Speranza ECE in their formulations and if true that seems like a pretty good vote of confidence in the product.

 

I hasten to say that I have absolutely no connection with any company in the supplement industry - I'm just a concerned consumer trying to get at the truth.



#22 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:27 AM

What blog are you speaking about ?? I dont have any blog related or where I mentioned ecklonia cava ? Please post the link here Im not related to anything like that.

 

I dont work for fibroboost, but used to have a project to patent an extract, We gave up since it was too hard to get the raw material, it became protected species

 

The test we did, are the test they also should have done. I studied my competitors prior to lunch this project, this is a normal thing.

 

Fibroboost is full of harsh chemical, I also do not support them but at least they dont lie: yes they do own dextrin, but this part claimed by ford speranza is marketing: because almost 95% of their extract is phlorotannins. They cut with dextrin because they wants to provide a certain amount per day at maximum of phlorotannins, especially since they are the one who definied the limit and safety value...

 

I do not support fiboboost, they used chromato to purify their stuff and their protocol is found in patent, and is not green. My company do not support harsh chemical (only green solvant) and no fillers

 

Swanson was interested by our information as they do never test the final material wich is normal, its the sellers responsability, its howver possible they test basic data as microbiotic and pesticides etc. for safety only. But we didnt moved forward as we wanted to wait final time to sell when we ready

 

If we had continue this project, they would have been removed from swanson.. thats it !

 

I will stop reply to you for the simple reason I have absolutely nothing to win in this story and that you now have all the tools to make your own choice and investigate further. You can order from them if you do believe im wrong. I just dont understand why you dont ask them proof there is phlorotannins in it ? for now they provided you only claims and no proof as again the Folin C method is definitely not !... Im fine with it. There is however the point its not honest from them.


Edited by Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi), 01 December 2016 - 09:32 AM.

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#23 quixote

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:20 PM

If you order ecklonia cava, the only supplement on the market we think is ok is the one from korea: fibroboost (also sold on swanson).

 

I remember giving Fibroboost a try 3-4 years ago and, guess what, it absolutely nothing, zilch, nada for me. But I seem to be non-responsive to pretty much everything, the only effect I have ever felt from supplementation in general was increased heartburn.






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