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Need help with Vyvanse


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#1 cancellationstation

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:24 PM


Hi, community:

I have a script for Vyvanse. I have never done drugs in my life and I love my brain. I don't want to destroy it. I initially was not going to go to the appointment but went and got the script. I am really scared of this drug. Can anyone here please suggest anything I ought to do. I have read that amphetamines activate caspase. This is the stuff that causes cells to commit suicide. I suspect this is what is going to happen to my neurons. Some things they suggested that would hinder this but not completely is vitamin e. I initially wanted to try the phenylethylamine deprenyl combo but then I changed my mind and thought rasagiline is better but it is extremely expensive. I am still thinking this might be the best route another route I was thinking was the special formula by SOLARAY with St. Johns Wort, Ginkgo Biloba, DL-phenylalanine and I think Tyrosine and add to this PEA. The latter has MAO inhibition properties in it. So in theory it would work. I just don't know if phenylethylamine is as good as anything like what pharma has or other alternatives. Any suggestions? I am all ears.

#2 manic_racetam

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:22 AM

Hi, community:

I have a script for Vyvanse. I have never done drugs in my life and I love my brain. I don't want to destroy it. I initially was not going to go to the appointment but went and got the script. I am really scared of this drug. Can anyone here please suggest anything I ought to do. I have read that amphetamines activate caspase. This is the stuff that causes cells to commit suicide. I suspect this is what is going to happen to my neurons. Some things they suggested that would hinder this but not completely is vitamin e. I initially wanted to try the phenylethylamine deprenyl combo but then I changed my mind and thought rasagiline is better but it is extremely expensive. I am still thinking this might be the best route another route I was thinking was the special formula by SOLARAY with St. Johns Wort, Ginkgo Biloba, DL-phenylalanine and I think Tyrosine and add to this PEA. The latter has MAO inhibition properties in it. So in theory it would work. I just don't know if phenylethylamine is as good as anything like what pharma has or other alternatives. Any suggestions? I am all ears.


Is the script for ADD?

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#3 ultranaut

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:47 AM

General rules for amphetamine use:
1) Take the minimal effective dose
2) If you find yourself escalating doses, take a break immediately
3) Don't take it every day for more than a week at a time
4) Take a multi-day break at least once a month
4a) Take a multi-week break at least once a year
5) Don't forget to eat and drink, even if you really don't want to
6) Take magnesium at night at least a few times a week
7) Never take a dose less than 12 hours before bedtime, even if you have an effective sleeping pill

#4 thedevinroy

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:18 AM

Hi, community:

I have a script for Vyvanse. I have never done drugs in my life and I love my brain. I don't want to destroy it. I initially was not going to go to the appointment but went and got the script. I am really scared of this drug. Can anyone here please suggest anything I ought to do. I have read that amphetamines activate caspase. This is the stuff that causes cells to commit suicide. I suspect this is what is going to happen to my neurons. Some things they suggested that would hinder this but not completely is vitamin e. I initially wanted to try the phenylethylamine deprenyl combo but then I changed my mind and thought rasagiline is better but it is extremely expensive. I am still thinking this might be the best route another route I was thinking was the special formula by SOLARAY with St. Johns Wort, Ginkgo Biloba, DL-phenylalanine and I think Tyrosine and add to this PEA. The latter has MAO inhibition properties in it. So in theory it would work. I just don't know if phenylethylamine is as good as anything like what pharma has or other alternatives. Any suggestions? I am all ears.

I wouldn't mess with St. John's Wart unless you know how it's prepared. I took it once for a month, not knowing it's photo-sensitivity side effects until later (my family has a history of cataracts). It just made me loopy. No effect on concentration, and I have inattentive type ADHD. That was a no-go despite all the research. It shouldn't have much interaction with Vyvanse.

Please supplement Vyvanse with extra magnesium, potassium, and vitamin B6. These are depleted by psychostimulants.

DL-Phenylalanine/L-Tyrosine combo is quite effective for restoring your dopamine storages.

Ginkgo might relieve pressure headaches from vasoconstriction, but I didn't notice a change in concentration from it.

Any substrate or inhibitor of MAO is a definite no-no in combination with a heavy stimulant like Vyvanse. Might as well be shooting cocaine or snorting Adderall. If you are going to take PEA or deprenyl with it, cut WAY back on the Vyvanse.

Might I also suggest taking something anxiolytic with Vyvanse. I took Adderall and Concerta before, and one thing is for certain... anxiety is going to happen hands-down unless you gear up for it. Picamilon is a pretty cheap source. 30-50mg per 4hrs should take the edge off without affecting concentration. Another cheap source is valerian root, which you can get in timed release capsules, usually marketed for sleep. If it comes in a tablet form, break it in half. I've heard bacopa works, but I haven't the foggiest idea why.

Again, magnesium is no joke. It also has calcium channel regulating properties, which may help combat the stress on your neurology (calcium channel blocker). A TOA in Cat's Claw also has calcium channel regulating property (noncompetitive NMDA antagonist). The whole B/C Complex works wonders on stress in general. Make sure you get enough of those.

#5 Healthy Tony

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 02:28 PM

Devin: I wouldn't say that anxiety is definitely going to occur. Everyone has different brain chemistry; what you experience may be very different from what another may experience. I for one have never experienced any anxiety from amphetamines including Vyvanse, even at doses that have left me feeling tweaked.

#6 cancellationstation

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

Hi, community:

I have a script for Vyvanse. I have never done drugs in my life and I love my brain. I don't want to destroy it. I initially was not going to go to the appointment but went and got the script. I am really scared of this drug. Can anyone here please suggest anything I ought to do. I have read that amphetamines activate caspase. This is the stuff that causes cells to commit suicide. I suspect this is what is going to happen to my neurons. Some things they suggested that would hinder this but not completely is vitamin e. I initially wanted to try the phenylethylamine deprenyl combo but then I changed my mind and thought rasagiline is better but it is extremely expensive. I am still thinking this might be the best route another route I was thinking was the special formula by SOLARAY with St. Johns Wort, Ginkgo Biloba, DL-phenylalanine and I think Tyrosine and add to this PEA. The latter has MAO inhibition properties in it. So in theory it would work. I just don't know if phenylethylamine is as good as anything like what pharma has or other alternatives. Any suggestions? I am all ears.


Is the script for ADD?


Yes, that was my request for that. I tried both Paxil years ago and recently Lexapro and Lex was awesome yet it affected my memory. I only tried like two 10 mg tablets though and the pharmacist said it would "go away" which reading from others experiences that is not true. So, Lexapro is so awesome, I have not been able to reproduce those effects but you cannot be a happy idiot in life.

#7 thedevinroy

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:01 PM

Devin: I wouldn't say that anxiety is definitely going to occur. Everyone has different brain chemistry; what you experience may be very different from what another may experience. I for one have never experienced any anxiety from amphetamines including Vyvanse, even at doses that have left me feeling tweaked.

Sorry, my bad. Everyone I have ever talked to has told me that the reason why they don't take their ADHD meds everyday is because they don't like the anxiety. The only other people who I know took it and liked it were recreational users. I never understood that.

Edited by devinthayer, 16 June 2011 - 04:02 PM.


#8 Healthy Tony

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

Devin: I wouldn't say that anxiety is definitely going to occur. Everyone has different brain chemistry; what you experience may be very different from what another may experience. I for one have never experienced any anxiety from amphetamines including Vyvanse, even at doses that have left me feeling tweaked.

Sorry, my bad. Everyone I have ever talked to has told me that the reason why they don't take their ADHD meds everyday is because they don't like the anxiety. The only other people who I know took it and liked it were recreational users. I never understood that.

Interesting, I wonder if the form of ADHD has any effect on this side effect. I only know of one friend who experienced noticeable anxiety from an amphetamine, and it was so terrible that he couldn't bare to take it for more than 2 days, after which he went back on concerta.

#9 manic_racetam

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 05:10 PM

Hi, community:

I have a script for Vyvanse. I have never done drugs in my life and I love my brain. I don't want to destroy it. I initially was not going to go to the appointment but went and got the script. I am really scared of this drug. Can anyone here please suggest anything I ought to do. I have read that amphetamines activate caspase. This is the stuff that causes cells to commit suicide. I suspect this is what is going to happen to my neurons. Some things they suggested that would hinder this but not completely is vitamin e. I initially wanted to try the phenylethylamine deprenyl combo but then I changed my mind and thought rasagiline is better but it is extremely expensive. I am still thinking this might be the best route another route I was thinking was the special formula by SOLARAY with St. Johns Wort, Ginkgo Biloba, DL-phenylalanine and I think Tyrosine and add to this PEA. The latter has MAO inhibition properties in it. So in theory it would work. I just don't know if phenylethylamine is as good as anything like what pharma has or other alternatives. Any suggestions? I am all ears.


Is the script for ADD?


Yes, that was my request for that. I tried both Paxil years ago and recently Lexapro and Lex was awesome yet it affected my memory. I only tried like two 10 mg tablets though and the pharmacist said it would "go away" which reading from others experiences that is not true. So, Lexapro is so awesome, I have not been able to reproduce those effects but you cannot be a happy idiot in life.



If it's for ADD and it's your first time taking stimulant medication then the dosages should be pretty low. I used to take methylphenidate 30mg/day and when my doc switched me to adderall he started me on 5mg twice a day. That even felt strong for me so I reduced it it 2.5mg twice a day.

Vyvanse comes on more slowly (something with being broken down in the GI before becoming active), I've never tried it but I hear it doesn't have the same "spike" in effect that the other amphetamines do. If you ask your doc to start you with the lowest dose possible dose it would likely minimize the risks you're worrying about.

For me deprenyl does little for my ADD. The stimulant meds are the only quick fixes out there and unfortunately they are temporary fixes.

If you really need it for ADD I'd at least try it for a while at the lowest dose and see if it helps. (My reasoning is that the lower the dose the lower the likelihood of the oxidative damage that you're worried about.)

Also you should probably try doing concentration exercises to increase your attention span naturally. Attention and focus are just like muscles, the more you work them out the more gains you'll see. It takes work but it's likely the most effective and long term solution.

#10 cancellationstation

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:28 PM

An excellent forum is Social Anxiety Support (SAS). I have horrific problems in social situations almost like wearing a coat in summer time. Anyway, I came accross this comment and study from there and thought worthy to mention...here it is.

Quote:
Although evidence for neurotoxicity in rodents derives from studies utilizing very high amphetamine doses, and repeated exposure to lower doses equivalent to the human therapeutic range do not produce toxicity in rodents (e.g., 50), a similar study of non-human primates produced very different results. Adult baboons and squirrel monkeys were treated with a 3:1 mixture of d/l –amphetamine similar to the pharmaceutical Adderal for 4 weeks 53. Plasma concentrations of amphetamine (136 +/− 21 ng/ml) matched the levels reported in human ADHD patients after amphetamine treatment lasting 3 weeks (120 to 140 ng/ml) 54 or 6 weeks in the highest dose (30 mg/day) condition (120 ng/ml) 15. When the animals were sacrificed 2-weeks after the 4 week amphetamine treatment period, both nonhuman primate species showed a 30−50% reduction in striatal dopamine, its major metabolite 3,4-Dihydroxy-Phenylacetic Acid (DOPAC), its rate-limiting enzyme (tyrosine hydroxylase), its membrane transporter, and its vesicular transporter. These consequences are similar, if not identical to the effects of neurotoxic doses in rodents.
In the study this review was referring to, baboons aged 10-15 years and weighing 20-30 kg were treated twice daily for 4 weeks with an oral preparation of amphetamine equivalent to that of Adderall (3:1 mixture of D/L isomers) at doses ranging from 5 mg to 20 mg, amounts similar to those used to treat ADHD in humans. At the end of the 4 week period, the baboons were euthanized and had their brains removed and analyzed. A 30-50% reduction of dopaminergic markers were observed in the striatums (which houses the brain's major reward center -- the nucleus accumbens) of the animals. It should be noted that the changes do not merely indicate physiological tolerance as VMAT was one of the decreased markers.

Squirrel monkeys weighing 0.83-0.95 kg were also tested and were much more resistant to the neurotoxicity in comparison to the baboons. It seems that the larger and more evolved you get -- mice to rats to squirrel monkeys to baboons to humans -- the worse the neurotoxicity becomes. Hence, the brain damage may be even more substantial in humans whom are approximately twice the weight of the baboons tested. In addition, Dexedrine, Vyvanse, and, especially, Desoxyn, are all much more dopaminergic formulations of (meth)amphetamine and may be several fold more toxic relative to the Adderall-like 3:1 D/L preparation as well. Finally, the treatment period was relatively short (only 4 weeks); it can logically be presumed that a longer period of treatment (e.g., 1-2 years) would be exponentially more deleterious in comparison.

So based on this and my own personal experience I myself would advise everyone here to stay the **** away from any amphetamines whatsoever. Aside from neurotoxicity there are other problems like hypertension/tachycardia (which can eventually result in stroke/hemorrhage/heart problems) and drug abuse/addiction (imagine the degree of neurotoxicity from 'recreational'-level doses..) as well. All in all they just do not appear safe to me at all.

To Wesley and Tony: I really hate arguing with you guys but I thought it was important for me to post this study anyway as I believe people should know. I'll be perfectly honest with you both though.. I think you're deluding yourselves into thinking amphetamines are safe because you're literally addicted to them -- whether it be for pleasure or therapeutic purposes like anxiety relief. The enticement of the reward is overriding logic and you're pushing the thought of consequences into the back of your minds. The same applies to GHB (or GBL or 1,4-BD or w/e) in which I see even less of a point to.

I apologize for saying that and remember I'm only being honest but I'm seriously worried about you two. I don't want to see either of you end up like my uncle or the numerous other people I know who have suffered the consequences of amphetamine use. So please don't take it the wrong way (can't reinforce this enough). In any case.. I think the only way you'll change your minds is for you to experience the neurotoxicity yourselves firsthand but obviously by then it'd be too late.


The contributor suggested pramiprexole as the solution.

Edited by cancellationstation, 21 June 2011 - 01:32 PM.


#11 eon

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 07:47 AM

Just got prescribed 10 mg Vyvanse and Lovaza (prescription omega-3's). The latter is also prescribed for ADHD and I've been taking it for a few days now. It makes me too relaxed. Has anyone here ever used this product? I was advised to take it at night and take the Vyvanse in the morning. I still haven't tried Vyvanse yet because I'm both hesitating and  I'm trying to get a feel of the Lovaza first. I can't say I'm productive with Lovaza but more calm. I would think Vyvanse is more stimulating. Will I like Vyvanse? I have used stimulant/nootropics before like phenylpiracetam and bromantane. I liked both. I was just wondering if Vyvanse has that calming focus effect like those 2 and not jittery coffee-like intensity?

 

I don't get why there is a warning on the Vyvanse bottle about being drowsy, etc. when this is a stimulant. Is this just a standard sticker on every prescription drug?

 

I also have some propranolol and xanax in case I feel anxiety since I revealed to the psychiatrist I have a history of anxiety and panic attack but they are predictable. Just thinking about trying a new drug makes me anxious.

 

Will Vyvanse make me feel wonderful? I know when I had less sleep and take bromantane and or phenylpiracetam, I felt the day went by smooth without any negative feelings. of course those 2 function as anxiolytic as well. I'm hoping "amphetamine" isn't as rough as its name implies.


Edited by eon, 21 April 2015 - 07:56 AM.


#12 sparkk51

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:08 PM

You will feel wonderful, probably a bit nervous too. It's t the crash that I hate. Vyvanse is much more potent, therefore noticeable, than piracetam.

#13 eon

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 06:16 PM

ahem...phenylpiracetam.

 

Why does the crash happen with Vyvanse like you say? I felt a bit nervous on phenylpiracetam but it's "controlled nervousness" because of it's  anxiolytic properties (along with its stimulant properties). I'm assuming Vyvanse would have this "controlled nervousness" considering the lysine that's in it.

 

You will feel wonderful, probably a bit nervous too. It's t the crash that I hate. Vyvanse is much more potent, therefore noticeable, than piracetam.

 


Edited by eon, 21 April 2015 - 06:19 PM.


#14 eon

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 05:32 AM

I need more info. on Vyvanse if it will make me anxious and if this anxiety is "fear" driven or not? I thought usually an amphetamine makes one fearless (anxious or not)? I just need to know upfront. I think it makes one fearless going by how the Japanese and German soldiers were during the WW1 and WW2.



#15 eon

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:04 AM

while it is unknown, can someone here speculate why amphetamine calms children with ADHD?



#16 eon

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:11 AM

is it best to cycle amphetamine use as to not build a tolerance?

 

I looked at the drug interactions with Vyvanse and there seem to be plenty even vitamins and minerals are listed that may cause a problem (vitamin C, D, calcium etc.)

 

major drug interactions:

 

http://www.drugs.com...3&generic_only=

 

moderate drug interactions:

 

http://www.drugs.com...2&generic_only=

 

minor drug interactions:

 

http://www.drugs.com...1&generic_only=



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#17 sparkk51

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 04:51 AM

You seem way too cautious to try this stuff. There are millions who have been on it, don't think it is dangerous at therapeutic doses.




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