Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

tDCS thread


  • Please log in to reply
418 replies to this topic

#61 Krell

  • Registered User, F@H
  • 97 posts
  • 31
  • Location:BaileysCrossroads,VA

Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:21 PM

Anyone attempting to control the current digitally? I have an electrical problem, and I'm looking for some help.

I have prototype using an arduino, a digital pot, and a LM334 adjustable current source with 2 x 9v. For electrodes I'm using 6cm diameter ceramic EMS electrodes against saline soaked sponges.
The theory is with digital control I can do double blind trials by just varying the programming on the devices. This also gives the obvious advantages of changing the current and automating the time of delivery.

The problem I keep having is measuring the current being delivered as it's running. The method I was attempting was to run the output current (anode) through a small resistor load and measure voltage on both sides using the arduino analog to digital converters and a voltage divider. This brings the voltage down to the 0-5v range allowed by the arduino, and with a little math based on the known small resistor size I can calculate the current travelling across the circuit. After the standard resistor it outputs to the anode electrode. This works fine with normal breadboard circuits and static resistor loads, but as soon as I introduce saline soaked sponges or a human-sized load my ADCs start returning bogus values.

One thought I had was perhaps the layers of sponge and electrode are creating a capacitance, or perhaps the human load is just too high and the voltage is jumping up to where the voltage dividers are too small. Maybe it's just a limitation of the microcontroller. Anyone with some electrical insight would be appreciated.


A circuit diagram would be helpful.

Does the current sensing resistor have the same ground on one of its ends as the Arduino? If not, the Arduino may not be sensing the differential voltage across it.
  • 0

#62 hjmiii

  • Registered User
  • 7 posts
  • 0
  • Location:United States

Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:21 AM

Here's a rough schematic. For reference I just put it on the same sheet as the Arduino pro mini schematic so you can see how the Arduino is powered. Omitted is the optional FTDI adapter for serial output to the PC. I have been using that to record the readings and calculate the current delivered, which may also be introducing some interference.

Attached Files


  • 0

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#63 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:03 AM

You were right, ATA. The connection was bad in two places: from adjustment leg of LM and on one leg of the circuit breaker. I resoldered them and now it shows stable 1.06 mA. So yesterday I had my first real tdcs session and it changed something in my head together with portion of Magnesium. I started to have positive thoughts and emotions like my life is in the very beginning and was rather alert. I could not fall asleep yesterday even after taking melatonin - I think it is due to TDCS.
  • 0

#64 Googoltarian

  • Registered User
  • 113 posts
  • 64
  • Location:EU

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:21 AM

You were right, ATA. The connection was bad in two places: from adjustment leg of LM and on one leg of the circuit breaker. I resoldered them and now it shows stable 1.06 mA. So yesterday I had my first real tdcs session and it changed something in my head together with portion of Magnesium. I started to have positive thoughts and emotions like my life is in the very beginning and was rather alert. I could not fall asleep yesterday even after taking melatonin - I think it is due to TDCS.


Please post complete schematic if you can!

There are medical gel electrodes available everywhere, reusable and in variety of sizes - definitely better than metal connection.
  • 0

#65 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:36 AM

The link to the scheme was on the first page http://brmlab.cz/pro...in_hacking/tdcs
ATA is the author you can ask him the details.
In my little provincial town I doubt that there are any electrodes and gel at chemist's shops - I already asked in some of them. And the saline solution with diy electrodes work just fine! You have sponges over metal which prevent damage to the skin.

Edited by Dan Brown, 08 March 2012 - 10:38 AM.

  • 0

#66 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:30 PM


to Googoltarian. look to earlier post gel electrodes is not usable for my version of TDCS ,in version with voltage mutiplayer maybe bud higly depens of type of electrode - gel ,size, material.

  • 0

#67 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:58 PM

to hjmiii : no device directly connect to the body shall not be conductive connection of devices in the network =Pc

if you want it to be safe use galvanic isolation or optocoupler

alwayes is there little risk somtething go wrong better be over safety than fried brain
  • 0

#68 hjmiii

  • Registered User
  • 7 posts
  • 0
  • Location:United States

Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:34 PM

to hjmiii : no device directly connect to the body shall not be conductive connection of devices in the network =Pc

if you want it to be safe use galvanic isolation or optocoupler

alwayes is there little risk somtething go wrong better be over safety than fried brain


ATA, Yes you are correct. Never do this for a live connection to a person's head. That is why that connection is omitted from the schematic. I'm only using the PC connection to calibrate the system to the type of electrodes.

When I test using an external multimeter I get accurate results, but I would like to use the ADC on the microcontroller to measure and adjust the digital pot. In addition to allowing for blind and double blind trials of the device, doing this could allow the system to compensate as the saline pads dry out during the session or allow the system to adjust for differences in people's physiology. I read in a study that during tDCS the resistance slowly drops over time, starting in the several 100s of kOhm and dropping to several 10s of kOhm. It can also serve as a safety to throw a relay to cut off current if an over-current event is detected.

Also, for the future, if/when we do want to have computer readout or computer control, an optocoupler and/or wireless transmission would be the way to go. I dread dealing with the RF issues of wireless however.
  • 0

#69 manic_racetam

  • Registered User, Moderator
  • 937 posts
  • 1,185
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:54 PM

Magnesium and TDCS are the impressive anxiolitics and probably the cheapest. In addition to making you calm they also make you more alert and feel healthy. They do not produce any sedative effect. Those with hypo-tension should take very low doses of magnesium to prevent lowering tension below their usual level. MB and eleuterakok help a bit to maintain tension on usual level. I take MB in the dose of 1 mg three times per day and several drops of eleuterakok in the morning with noopept. TDSC excites the zones of positive emotions in brain while inhibiting the zones with negative emotions. As a result you stop to have negative emotions as they become weak and not worth paying attention.
I made the TDCS device using 9v battery, two resistors, current regulator, beer can foil, sponges and circuit breaker. You can find the scheme in the tDCS thread and ask the author of the scheme.
No changes of perception with Mg and TDSC. I have not taken phenibut for several days and have not noticed any negative changes in my mood. It means that MG and TDSC work better and stronger. Magnesium should be taken in low doses several times per day instead of one large dose.
TDSC should be applied one time per 48 hours.


How long have you been using the tDCS?

Edited by manic_racetam, 08 March 2012 - 07:11 PM.

  • 0

#70 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:29 PM

I managed to finish the device only yesterday. Prior to that I had had bad connection in two places and the amperage had been lower than 0.4 mA while the required amperage should have been 1 mA. So with this low amperage i had used TDCS for two weeks without any effect. But yesterday I finally fixed the device and got constant 1 mA and had a real TDCS session. The result was that my vision became more clear and i became alert and after taking melatonin could not fall asleep for a couple of hours. This alertness lasted approximately for 6 hours before sleep and still continues today. At night I had vivid dreams. The effect is like i became 20 years younger and feel like a teenager a bit - no thoughts about any problems, good focus (i have reached the highest result at brainworkshop program today), good focus in reading books. I have the feeling that TDSC can completely block any depression. Of course magnesium helps too. If I had not taken magnesium I would be even more alert now. I feel like i want to dance. I am listening to silly TV pop songs which i personally dislike but i want to sing and have fun - i think it is a good indication that the mood is elevated and good. I feel a little bit light-minded however. But it is probably the normal state of the person who does not want to think about all problems of the world.
  • 0

#71 nickallen

  • Registered User
  • 4 posts
  • 1
  • Location:UK

Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:04 PM


"It works for you" how? What exactly is it improving for you? How have you measured these improvements? Where did you purchase the device and how much was it?


A real medical TDCS device would cost you 3,000 euros. A iontophoresis device would be cheaper - between 200 to 300 euros, but you'd have to tweak it and be sure to buy a DC one, not an AC. A TMS device would cost 30,000 euros.

You can buy an iontophoresis device on the internet easily, the other two have to be purchased through your institution or you'd need to be a medical doctor.

I haven't used it frequently - tried a few times for experimenting purposes - therapeutically it won't do much due to its disadvantages. Simply changing the membrane potential of a large zone of neurons isn't making necessarily improvements. It can help in some cases - major depression for example - or nicotine dependance - but for "enhancement" uses it is much less practical. All the clinical trials were made on older subjects or people with pathologies - on a healthy adult brain there will be much less improvements.



Hi, I've got atrocious tinnitus. In lots of studies, tDCS can alleviate this. I'd like to buy an iontophoresis device and try it out. Do you favour any particular model, and what sort of 'tweaking' is required? |I know its safe at just a few milliamps, how do you adjust frequency (HZ) settings, and are they sold with sponge electrodes, etc. Absolutely desperate. If anyone else on this forum has any input, I'd appreciate it. Thanks everybody.
  • 0

#72 manic_racetam

  • Registered User, Moderator
  • 937 posts
  • 1,185
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:07 PM

I managed to finish the device only yesterday. Prior to that I had had bad connection in two places and the amperage had been lower than 0.4 mA while the required amperage should have been 1 mA. So with this low amperage i had used TDCS for two weeks without any effect. But yesterday I finally fixed the device and got constant 1 mA and had a real TDCS session. The result was that my vision became more clear and i became alert and after taking melatonin could not fall asleep for a couple of hours. This alertness lasted approximately for 6 hours before sleep and still continues today. At night I had vivid dreams. The effect is like i became 20 years younger and feel like a teenager a bit - no thoughts about any problems, good focus (i have reached the highest result at brainworkshop program today), good focus in reading books. I have the feeling that TDSC can completely block any depression. Of course magnesium helps too. If I had not taken magnesium I would be even more alert now. I feel like i want to dance. I am listening to silly TV pop songs which i personally dislike but i want to sing and have fun - i think it is a good indication that the mood is elevated and good. I feel a little bit light-minded however. But it is probably the normal state of the person who does not want to think about all problems of the world.


Impressive results... So you got these results only from TDCS and aren't taking any other supplements or drugs right now?

PS: I'm moving these posts over to the tDCS thread so we don't high-jack this anxiety thread. See you over there.
  • 0

#73 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

from Dan Brown posts

TDSC excites the zones of positive emotions in brain while inhibiting the zones with negative emotions. As a result you stop to have negative emotions as they become weak and not worth paying attention.
*this is not entirely true it's a little bit complicated, tdcs gives a better opportunity to control emotions and stop the stress response. I try to write little more in next post.

I feel a little bit light-minded however.
*his is normal
* be careful where the cathode is, should be just above the right eye.Rightprefrontal cortex is involve in inhibition of inappropriate behavior - effect of alcohol turn it off .TDCS can sligtly turn it off becouse that i use larger cathode than anode - risk is minimal .

to nickallen : you can made it at home for 10 bucks , i dont know iontophoresis devices but TDCS use DC current there are no frequenci .


to manic_racetam: i have simular results with tdcs for about 3 years but i can manage same or higher effect by mental techniqes bcaouse that i dout tdcs very often
  • 0

#74 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:30 PM

When I test using an external multimeter I get accurate results, but I would like to use the ADC on the microcontroller to measure and adjust the digital pot. In addition to allowing for blind and double blind trials of the device, doing this could allow the system to compensate as the saline pads dry out during the session or allow the system to adjust for differences in people's physiology. I read in a study that during tDCS the resistance slowly drops over time, starting in the several 100s of kOhm and dropping to several 10s of kOhm. It can also serve as a safety to throw a relay to cut off current if an over-current event is detected.

Also, for the future, if/when we do want to have computer readout or computer control, an optocoupler and/or wireless transmission would be the way to go. I dread dealing with the RF issues of wireless however.



the current regulator will regulate current automaticly to pre set value - change of resistane of electrodes+head will have no effect on current (if it does not achieve limit value) .regulator change voltage acros the circut

ramping and people's physiology can be do manualy with 10kO trimmer connect as load with head(9V source ) and the multimetter for control but this only for blind no double blind.

limit resistane is about 7,5kO load in 1mA and 9V source . My electrodes +head have about 2-5kO.

controling all and conncet to PC will be ideal for expedimnets but for averige user it is unnecessary and comlicate the bulding higher the price.

I had once one vreson of tdcs controled by Pc but only on/off by COM port and optocoupler
  • 0

#75 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:46 PM

some theory about my methods: copy/paste style from some web because language barier its very hard for me write long text.
this is only little peace whole is far more complex few hundred of
pages of theory

Stress and fear reaction
When the brain receives a sensory stimulus indicating a danger, it is
routed first to the thalamus. From there, the information is sent out
over two parallel pathways: the thalamo-amygdala pathway (the “short
route”) and the thalamo-cortico-amygdala pathway (the “long route”).
The short route conveys a fast, rough impression of the situation,
because it is a sub-cortical pathway in which no cognition is
involved. This pathway activates the amygdala which, through its
central nucleus, generates emotional responses before any perceptual
integration has even occurred and before the mind can form a complete
representation of the stimulus.

Subsequently, the information that has travelled via the long route
and been processed in the cortex reaches the amygdala and tells it
whether or not the stimulus represents a real threat. To provide this
assessment, various levels of cortical processing are required.
First, the various modalities of the perceived object are processed
by the primary sensory cortex. Then the unimodal associative cortex
provides the amygdala with a representation of the object. At an even
higher level of analysis, the polymodal associative cortex
conceptualizes the object and also informs the amygdala about it. This
elaborate representation of the object is then compared with the
contents of explicit memory by means of the hippocampus, which also
communicates closely with the amygdala.
The hippocampus is the structure that supports the explicit memory
required to learn about the dangerousness of an object or situation in
the first place. The hippocampus is also especially sensitive to the
encoding of the context associated with an aversive experience. It is
because of the hippocampus that not only can a stimulus become a
source of conditioned fear, but so can all the objects surrounding it
and the situation or location in which it occurs.
The imminent presence of a danger then performs the task of activating
the amygdala, whose discharge patterns in turn activate the efferent
structures responsible for physical manifestations of fear, such as
increased heart rate and blood pressure, sweaty hands, dry mouth, and
tense muscles.

----
Major connections to the the amygdala also come from the medial
prefrontal cortex. These connections appear to be involved in the
process of extinction,
whereby a stimulus that triggers a conditioned
fear gradually loses this effect. This happens if that stimulus is
repeatedly presented to the subject without the unconditional
nociceptive stimulus that was initially associated with it to produce
the conditioned fear.
The prefrontal cortex also seems to be involved in the final phase of
confronting a danger, where, after the initial automatic, emotional
reaction, we are forced to react and choose the course of action that
can best get us out of danger.
In people whose frontal cortex is
damaged (people with “frontal syndrome"), planning the slightest task
is very difficult, if not impossible.
Thus, the ability that our superior mental structures give us to
voluntarily plan an emotional response suited to the situation
is a
wonderful complement to our system of rapid, automatic responses. The
connections from the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala also enable us
to exercise a certain conscious control over our anxiety.
However, at
the same time, this faculty can create anxiety by allowing us to
imagine the failure of a given scenario or even the presence of
dangers that do not actually exist.
---
Though depression involves an overall reduction in brain activity,
some parts of the brain are more affected than others. In brain-
imaging studies using PET scans, depressed people display abnormally
low activity in the prefrontal cortex,
and more specifically in its
lateral, orbitofrontal, and ventromedial regions. And the severity of
the depression often correlates with the extent of the decline in
activity in the prefrontal cortex.

The prefrontal cortex is known not only to be involved in emotional
responses, but also to have numerous connections with other parts of
the brain that are responsible for controlling dopamine,
norepinephrine, and serotonin, three neurotransmitters that are
important in mood regulation. More specifically, the lateral
prefrontal cortex seems to help us choose a course of behaviour by
letting us assess the various alternatives mentally.
The orbitofrontal
cortex seems to let us defer certain immediate gratifications and
suppress certain emotions in order to obtain greater long-term
benefits
. And the ventromedial cortex is thought to be one of the
sites in the brain where we experience emotions and the meanings of
things.
1) orbitofrontal cortex
2) lateral prefrontal cortex
3) ventromedial cortex
4) limbic system
The two halves of the prefrontal cortex also seem to have specialized
functions, with the left half being involved in establishing positive
feelings and the right half in establishing negative ones.
And indeed,
in depressed people, it is the left prefrontal cortex that shows the
greatest signs of weakness. In other words, when people are depressed,
they find it very hard not only to set goals in order to obtain
rewards, but also to believe that such goals can be achieved
.
In healthy people, the left prefrontal cortex might also help to
inhibit the negative emotions generated by limbic structures such as
the amygdalae, which show abnormally high activity in depressed
patients.
In patients who respond positively to antidepressants, this
overactivity is reduced. And when the amygdalae remain highly
hyperactive despite antidepressant treatment, the likelihood of a
patient's relapsing into depression is high.
It is also interesting to note that when someone's left prefrontal
cortex is operating at full capacity, the levels of glucocorticoids in
their blood are generally very low
. This follows logically,
considering the harmful effects that high levels of glucocorticoids
have on mood.

Brain-imaging studies have also shown that in patients with severe
depression, the volume of the two hippocampi is reduced.
This atrophy
may be due to a loss of neurons that is also induced by the toxic
effects of the high levels of glucocorticoids associated with
recurrent episodes of depression.
The extent of atrophy in the
hippocampus even seems to be proportional to the sum of the durations
of the episodes of depression, and depressions that are treated
rapidly do not seem to lead to this reduction in hippocampal volume
---
The prefrontal cortex also seems to participate, like the hippocampus,
in the negative feedback loop that lowers the level of stress hormones
when it becomes too high.
And like the hippocampus, the prefrontal
cortex might also become impaired by persistently high levels of
glucocorticoids, thus interfering with this control mechanism and
releasing the natural brake on the amygdala
. Consequently, any new
emotional stimulus would be more strongly encoded and would become
very resistant to extinction.

--
Both the MFB, through the desire/action/satisfaction cycle, and the
PVS, through the successful fight or flight response, lead the
organism to behave in a way that preserves its homeostasis. Together,
they form the behavioural approach system (BAS).
Opposing the BAS is the behavioural inhibition system (BIS),
characterized by Henri Laborit in the early 1970s. Stimulation of the
BIS causes an overall inhibition of behaviour, thus working against
the BAS.
Under natural conditions, the BIS is activated when we observe that
our actions will be ineffective. When fight or flight appears
impossible, very often the only choice left to ensure survival is to
submit and accept things as they are
. The BIS is the result of an
evolutionary history in which this system made itself useful by
operating intermittently, temporarily preventing any useless actions
that could only have made matters worse.
For example, consider a small mammal in the middle of a field who
suddenly sees a bird of prey flying overhead. The best thing to do is
not to move, in the hope of not being seen. In human societies based
on competition, many people activate their behavioural inhibition
system continually, to avoid reprisals.

In such cases, the inhibition of behaviour is no longer merely an
adaptive interval between approach and avoidance behaviours, but
instead becomes a chronic source of anxiety.
This sense of uneasiness
gradually undermines the individual’s health. Indeed, the inhibition
of behaviour has many negative consequences, and they have been
abundantly documented. The most obvious ones are psychosomatic
illnesses, stomach ulcers, and arterial hypertension. But prolonged
activation of the BIS can also lead to more serious genetic disorders
such as cancers and all of the pathologies associated with impaired
immune function

http://thebrain.mcgi...p_que_img01.jpg
  • 1

#76 hjmiii

  • Registered User
  • 7 posts
  • 0
  • Location:United States

Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:43 PM

the current regulator will regulate current automaticly to pre set value - change of resistane of electrodes+head will have no effect on current (if it does not achieve limit value) .regulator change voltage acros the circut

ramping and people's physiology can be do manualy with 10kO trimmer connect as load with head(9V source ) and the multimetter for control but this only for blind no double blind.

limit resistane is about 7,5kO load in 1mA and 9V source . My electrodes +head have about 2-5kO.

controling all and conncet to PC will be ideal for expedimnets but for averige user it is unnecessary and comlicate the bulding higher the price.

I had once one vreson of tdcs controled by Pc but only on/off by COM port and optocoupler


This is true. My goal from the outset was a double blind trial with ramping and sham group (ramp up to 1ma over 15sec and then turn off the current to give the feeling of tDCS), so some form of control is necessary. I'd like to reproduce some university studies out of our hackerspace.

To keep the cost low and the unit small I'm trying to keep it all in the one microcontroller. This unit is still less than $35US. The Arduino is the most expensive piece. The pro-mini from sparkfun electronics is nearly $20US. I could also get boards made with the uC integrated, but when I priced this out it was similar to the price of the arduino. Even though it's a development board, the pro-mini is so bare to the bones that I need everything on it.

I agree the majority will not want computer control and logging, however a few options are nice if they can be done with very little extra cost. For <$1 I could add a toggle switch and LEDs to select programs. Ex. 20min,30min @1ma; 10min@2ma, etc. This would open the door even to people who don't want to mess with electronics, multimeters and trimmers. The same base unit could be used with an add-on board for computer logging in a lab setting. It's all open source so people can do what they want with it and go as far as they wish with the price and features.

Anyone have more ideas about my current measurement problem? I'm going to try some more isolation, perhaps logging to the program memory on the arduino instead of sending to the PC. I might also try the arduino forums, but they don't usually see human loads on their circuits :)
  • 0

#77 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:15 PM

I also thought about Arduino but my knowledge of electronics is very small and i dount have time to lern it.
I ask for help some frends but waiting more than a year, so I constructed this simple version.

i will try to ask them for yours poroblem , I hope that I will not wait as long :)

i have idea to build - universal stimulator with TENS,tDCS,CES,GVS,pulsed-TDCS,HD-tDCS aplications

in tests i noticed rapid change nad variation of resistnece of the head if i change the polarity of mesurmnet its not act as simple resistor or imdance there are many chnges on neurons polarozation ,electrolytycs fluds .electrodes...

measurements of resitsnace with multimtter alone can act as tDCS and have precivable effects
  • 0

#78 hjmiii

  • Registered User
  • 7 posts
  • 0
  • Location:United States

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

I will gladly post my arduino code once I have the hardware bugs sorted out. Thanks for asking your friends.
  • 0

#79 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Manic_Racetam, last days I have been taking only MB, Magnesium and Noopept and i obtained the highest score in brainworkshop today after I had the tdcs session yesterday. Prior to that my results had been even lower than couple of weeks ago in spite of the fact that i was taking noopept which means that noopept was not working and did not produce any increase in score until i made TDCS.
  • 0

#80 Ben

  • Registered User
  • 1,936 posts
  • -8
  • Location:South East

Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:53 AM

Manic_Racetam, last days I have been taking only MB, Magnesium and Noopept and i obtained the highest score in brainworkshop today after I had the tdcs session yesterday. Prior to that my results had been even lower than couple of weeks ago in spite of the fact that i was taking noopept which means that noopept was not working and did not produce any increase in score until i made TDCS.


Which part of your brain are you stimulating? (The same as in ATA's schematic?)
  • 0

#81 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

Yes, the same as in Ata's scheme. According to the data posted by Ata above about the brain structures and behavior stimulation of lateral prefrontal cortex restores the ability to take decisions and be resistant to stresses. That means that the level of stress hormones like cortisol decreases and hyppocampus starts to work better. Neurons of hyppocampus eliminated by depression and the behavioral inhibition system (passive behavior) may start gradually to restore. And since hyppocampus is the structure which provides (or takes part) in explicit memory TDCS improves explicit memory. Prefront cortex also participates in taking decisions. The stronger decision making is the better also explicit memory is coz it is easier for you to order to your brain to remember something. Prefrontal cortex is also impaired by cortisol and BIS and TDSC on this zone like in ATA's scheme also improves prefrontal cortex and taking decisions. It was a real discovery for me to learn that decision making can so dramatically improve such abilities as memory which have always been considered more implicit than explicit. While in fact implicit memory is not strongly impaired in individuals with depression if impaired at all. You cannot develop implicit memory but you can develop explicit one to a fantastic degree. With change of BIS by BAS you start to function normally. In our society BIS is promoted among people coz it is easier to rule people without initiative, the obedient masses which agree to everything which is done to them. And pondering over the fact that by 2020-2030 half of the Earth population is going to have depression TDCS seems to be a strong weapon to fight for normal life and resist the destructive attempts of mass media. Cheapness and availability of parts to assemble the TDSC device makes it a universal and accessible means of treatment own fears and self-destructive behavior.
  • 0

#82 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

thanks you've summarized it

it is only a small part of the possibilities there are much bigger you can change preceptions filters , emotional reactions.., manin goal is to reprogram the brain - chnge the auto-response so that even if the prefrontal cortex is low aktivite and gous on goes by automated programs you should not causing problems in the body.Of course It is better to keep the aktivity of DLPFC on higher level.

TDCS is a good tool taht allows start to solving porblems.But l himself do only smart part. With appropriate tools the effect is many times higher.
Increased activity of the DLPFC allows to control the rest of the brain and reprogram it , DLPFC is key to everithing.

Please take tdcs only as a tool for start (take dlpfc to normal level) not like what he does all work for you.
From normal levels of activity is better co continue with mental techniqes it is safer and more effective.

tdcs is indeed safe but do not use him more than is necessary, use safer options if are available.

tdcs is the rewltively new method its still a chnace that there are any hidden negative effects tahs may apiear after many years. After 30years scintist dout find any bud safatey first.

Mental techniques is better but take time to learn them nad practise them.But the basic you can learn in one day.
if interested i can teachthe these techniques.
  • 0

#83 Nootr

  • Registered User
  • 180 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Spain

Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:22 PM

I have just wanted to ask you to teach us these mental techniques. Could you describe them and how to do them?
  • 0

#84 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

My techniqes is combination of esoteric nad neuroscience to reprogram the brain .Som of them i learn in net and book and some i create or modificate.This take me about 7 yaears nad not completted yet.
There are many esoteric things the moust of them have scince axplanation but i dout find it for all.For me is moust importtant that work even if it's only be a suggestion .

i try to explain techniques but my bad english is little problem :) there is few hudred pages of theory.I allway try to write both sides of view esoteric, scientific some thechnigues is thousands years old and only use diffret words for same things.

main technique needed for moust of others is improve awerness

steps:
deactivate negative thinking
stop stress response
clean stress hormones from the body
actvate positive part of limbic system
increase activity of DLPFC above normal level

Main problems is you must use righ combination of technigues if you miss one or done it only partialy all It may not have any effect or heavily restricted

My poject : try google translate
http://forum.astraln...php?f=40&t=1155

The key to everything is in L-DLPFC thst controls rest od the brain and can stop stres reaction (simplified) stres block DLPFC function.
There is the probem stress response has to be consciously stoppied , in depression awareness is low and the stress goes on there is no one who could stop him (DLPFC is make sense of selfe)
There are different approaches depending on how much DLPFC is deactivated.
When strong deactivation is almost impossible to focus on anything is thus very difficult to use some techniques.

You must first remove stress hormones from the body and stop their production.
The techniques work mainly with the intention and visualization.
  • 0

#85 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:18 PM

first method: (esoteric) Energy bonds and impresions ( theory http://forum.astraln...0&t=1155#p11033 try google trnsalate if it not readabale i try to transalte it but it takes some time)

try a simple vizualization with intetion dissconcet all negative bonds and toughts .Visualizate the tubes ,links form thats flow "negative energi"/stress hormones and disconect them cut them...
then prevent conncetion from reconection. You can also directly think of specific people places ...

The objective of this method is to disconnect the negative thoughts that trigger an negative emotional response, it is only a temporary solution
  • 0

#86 ATA

  • Registered User
  • 93 posts
  • 13
  • Location:Litovel ,Czech republic

Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

It would be better and faster to communicate about the method via ICQ or facebook or some other chat.
I can try to show you little demo of what techniqes can do - raise your awareness for about 5x normal level ,but this take some preparations about 2 hours and usage of techniqes that current science can not explain (allwyes is a chance there is only a sugestions)
  • 0

#87 Krell

  • Registered User, F@H
  • 97 posts
  • 31
  • Location:BaileysCrossroads,VA

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:57 PM

Here's a rough schematic. For reference I just put it on the same sheet as the Arduino pro mini schematic so you can see how the Arduino is powered. Omitted is the optional FTDI adapter for serial output to the PC. I have been using that to record the readings and calculate the current delivered, which may also be introducing some interference.


I do not see how your current sensing resistor can work as shown. I do not think you are properly referenced to ground, so your adc is seeing a much higher voltage.

I would removed all the other resistors and wiring around your current sensing resistor(s), and move just the current sensing resistor(s) to the extreme right side of your schematic between ground and the brain connection. Then your adc should be connected between the current sensing resistor and the brain connection. If your adc is differential, then connect the other lead to ground.

Hope this helps.
  • 0

#88 nickallen

  • Registered User
  • 4 posts
  • 1
  • Location:UK

Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

For all those interested in tDSC without having to spend a fortune or learn electronics, I've been following a very interesting thread in a Neurotalk support group for sufferers of Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) http://neurotalk.psy...read160980.html The OP called 'Ballerina' has successfully adapted an Activa Dose II Iontophoresis Delivery Unit , having been part of a tDCS clinical trial at Beth Israel,NY. THESE UNITS ARE AFFORDABLE. She explains what extra bits you need and where to get them. It's worth a read. She has researched widely and successfully administered treatment to herself.
  • 1

#89 MrHappy

  • Member, Engineer, Moderator
  • 1,794 posts
  • 388
  • Location:Australia

Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:39 PM

Here you go, people:
http://www.technolog.../27636/?ref=rss

$99 kit... Soon.

http://flowstateengaged.com/


  • 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#90 yowza

  • Registered User
  • 277 posts
  • 36
  • Location:Midwest

Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

Hello,

I've heard that there are ways to train tDCS at home. Below I'm summing up something I've read on this (I'm directly summing it up as I'm not sure a direct quote would be appropriate but if anyone's interested in this feel free to e-mail me):
"Chattanooga Ionto2"-a stable 2 channel FDA approved iontophoresis device that can deliver a constant current that some seem to have used for "off-label" tDCS.

Electrode Information:
Chattanooga's own brand of "iontophoresis" electrodes automatically come with this (for those that don't know "iontophoresis electrodes" are used by certain types of doctors like those practicing sports medicine who fill up the chambers of these electrodes with steroids or magnesium chloride then use the direct current to drive the drugs into the skin around the inflamed joint or muscle). However, from what I've heard the leads that come with this device can clip right into the standard flexible carbon electrodes used for TENS (trans-cutaneous electrical nerve stimulation).

Sizes of TENS are as follows:
1.25 by 1.25 inches (often used for red positive anode to stimulate cortical activity)
1.25 by 4 inches (often used for balck negative cathode to inhibit cortical activity)

One source that sells these can be found at:
http://www.tensaustralia.com/tensAccessories.asp. The Products numbered E38005 and E38007 fit the criteria needed. These are both designed to accept pin electrodes it seems. This pin receptacle is supposedly the right size to clip into the Ionto2 leads.



Avoiding Burn:
Placing the electrodes directly on the scalp will most likely cause burn. To avoid this, sterile 4 by 4 Gauze Pads (like those sold at Wal-Greens) should be placed on the scalp with the electrode on top of it.

Walgreen's 4"x4" gauze pads can be folded in half, soaked in salt water, and used immediately under the 1x4" caron electrode. Once folded in half they can be cut into two pieces and be used under the 1.25x1.25" electrodes as well.

Caution needs to be exercised when putting the salt-water soaked gauze pads between the carbon electrodes and the scalp. There shouldn't be any part of the carbon electrode extending beyond the gauze or a serious burn could be likely. The gauze pad itself must be very carefully stretched to avoid folds or irregularities, otherwise those irregularities may carry the bulk of the current and cause a burn.


Nearly all of the skin irritation can be avoided by right electrode placement and by adjusting the current of the device (one of the reasons Ionto2 may work well for tDCS possibly). During a session it seems one can instantly adjust the current flow in 0.1mA increments for ideal comfort while the on-board computer upgrades the session length appropriately.



I've also found the following:
There may have been cases where lab technicians have overused tDCS (over a period of years) on themselves and have possibly developed neurological or cognitive problems. There are also a few cases in the literature that describes several cases of bipolar depression converting to hypomania. This is in addition to the not uncommon burns and skin irritation.










The above information I have only relayed. I'm not trying to encourage any in-home training nor am I a physician. All I do know is that some people out there (including myself) have done neurofeedback training at home. I haven't done tDCS at home myself nor know if there's any physicians that would be willing to work with someone on this. However, I suppose it is possible to go to a physician who does this sort of thing and maybe find out a few things before even considering purchasing one of these (first whether there's any contraindications or indications for this treatment method as applied to oneself on an individual level; second what specific protocol is recommended).

I've read about a guy over in Russia named Juri Kropotov whose been doing experiments with this sort of thing (using QEEG to guide treatment objectively on a person to person basis). He's written a very complicated book (not for the lay person) that can be previewed here:
http://books.google....ropotov&f=false

The books divided into 3 sections. The first section deals with "QEEG" (backround EEG rhythms being looked at with QEEG software). the second section with applying "Evoked Potentials" into QEEG reports (something that hasn't really been done in the US), and the 3rd section (the part more interesting to a lay person) deals with "disorders of the brain system" (identifies various "labels" and broadly talks about the possibility of neurofeedback, rtms, or tdcs for each one).



Hope this adds something helpful to this discussion. Feedback is appreciated.

Edited by yowza, 09 March 2012 - 10:59 PM.

  • 0




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users