67 replies to this topic

[timar]

As Dolph pointed out elsewhere, sex and in vitro fertilization also "feel very different". The outcome is the same, though.

[nowayout]

As Dolph pointed out elsewhere, sex and in vitro fertilization also "feel very different". The outcome is the same, though.

No, it isn't. If it were, nobody who had a partner would need in vitro fertilization.

Edited by nowayout, 14 January 2014 - 03:36 PM.

[timar]

OK, to avoid such quibble I should have written: if there is an oucome, it is the same.

If you absorb the vitamin D from supplements, it is not different from that synthesized in the skin.

[Eruditus]

Same here, 

 

I get muscle cramps and abdominal cramping, fatigue and brain fog. This gets progressively worse as I continue supplementation of vitamin D 4000IU/ day for longer then a week. IMO this is not a placebo reaction nor an allergic reaction to an ingredient as I have tried 3 different brands on different occasions and get the same reaction to each. I have talked about this to my doctor and they advised me to simply stop supplementation even though I was found to be deficient at 28 ng/ml. I decided to ignore this non sensical advise and get my calcium levels tested after one week of vit D supplementation at 4000IU daily.

 

I am suspecting maybe hyperparathyroidism causes these types of adverse reactions. But then again it might just be a huge bactericidal overload after the immune system gets sparked up again? Hypothetically speaking this seems possible, especially reading about a lot of other initially negative experiences online which state that fatigue and muscle weakness can be increased during the first few weeks. But these people generally stop posting after a few months so maybe it's something some peoples' bodies need adequate time to adapts into these higher circulating vit D levels? 

 

Anyway to anyone having trouble supplementing vit D, I advise you to split the dose 2000 IU in the morning and 2000 IU in the evening. If it makes you especially weary then take it only before bed. If the issues keep getting worse then skip a day of supplementation and just resume the day after. Self experimenation is key in this matter and whatever works for you personally is best. I have found that a high amounts of butter and coconut oil/milk or just loads of good fat calories seems to help somewhat in ballancing out the vit D side effects, but then some people just get nauseous when they consume nearly a 100g of fat just for breakfast alone already :p  

[timar]

If this is a true adverse effect of taking oral vitamin D, it must be an extremely rare one, because it hasn't been reported in any of the vitamin D trials with a total of tens of thousands of participants (using doses up to 100,000 IU). It thus seems highly unlikely that several members of this community should experience such an effect.

 

How do you feel after being out in the sun for an hour or two in the summer? It it at least conceivable that the oral route may cause gastrointestinal side effects in sensible people, but once the vitamin D has been absorbed, it makes no difference where is came from. Hence sunshine should produce similar systemic adverse effect like muscle cramps.

Edited by timar, 08 June 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Eruditus]

If this is a true adverse effect of taking oral vitamin D, it must be an extremely rare one, because it hasn't been reported in any of the vitamin D trials with a total of tens of thousands of participants (using doses up to 100,000 IU). It thus seems highly unlikely that several members of this community should experience such an effect.

 

How do you feel after being out in the sun for an hour or two in the summer? It it at least conceivable that the oral route may cause gastrointestinal side effects in sensible people, but once the vitamin D has been absorbed, it makes no difference where is came from. Hence sunshine should produce similar systemic adverse effect like muscle cramps.

 

We know the body has a feedback loop to regulate adequate vitamin D levels. If for instance one suffers from hyperparathyroidism, I wouldn't be surprised if sun exposure would result in absolutely no vitamin D production due to the protective nature of low vitamin D in this condition. There may be other conditions that share the same protective measure by maintaining low vitamin D. We know sarcoidosis also makes for intolerance to vitamin D. And whether the low vitamin D levels in depressed, CFS, schizophrenics, etc etc. is a causative or resulting factor in their is yet uncertain. Personally I think it may have something to do with excess inflammation :o This is wholly unscientific but makes sense to me in the case that if vitamin D causes the immune system to become more active in an individual that already has excess inflammation going on ; then they are going to get worse before they get better. Maybe someone with a phd or masters degree can get into the nitty gritty elements of my theory, but I just don't have the time to go around finding studies and evidence to back up what I believe makes sense =/ sorry but I can only go on my own experience and that is that nearly all chronic diseases find their root cause in excess inflammation and almost all share the resulting vitamin D deficiency.   

[timar]

We know the body has a feedback loop to regulate adequate vitamin D levels. If for instance one suffers from hyperparathyroidism, I wouldn't be surprised if sun exposure would result in absolutely no vitamin D production due to the protective nature of low vitamin D in this condition.

 

This is physically impossible. There's always plenty of provitamin D (7-dehydrocholesterol) hanging around in the skin and whenever it is exposed to UV-B, it is photoactivated to form previtamin D, which is highly unstable when exposed to UV-B radiation and thus degraded to inactive photoproducts when sun exposure continues for longer periods of time. The remaining previtamin D is thermally isomerized to the circulating form of vitamin D (25-hydroxyvitamin D), which itself is degraded by longer lasting UV-B exposure. This is a purely physical, non-enzymatic feedback mechanism and thus there is no way in which, for example, thyroid hormones could be involved in regulating the epidermal production of vitamin D. (The phase II enzymes mediating the catabolism of vitamin D are subject to complex physiological feedback mechanisms, but this takes place in the liver, long after the vitamin D from the skin has gone into circulation.)

 

 

See this paper by Holick and Wacker for a comprehensive account of the photobiology of vitamin D:

 

 

There may be other conditions that share the same protective measure by maintaining low vitamin D. We know sarcoidosis also makes for intolerance to vitamin D.

 

This is a myth, originating from the confusion of the the circulating form of vitamin D (25-hydroxyvitamin D) we are usually talking about with its activated form, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. The disregulation of 1α-hydroxylase in granulomas leads to the overproduction of the active form of vitamin D but higher levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D normally decrease 1α-hydroxylase activity (PTH mediated) and upregulate the cytochrome-mediated catabolism of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D and this seems to be true for sarcoidosis patients as well. Hence vitamin D supplementation is warranted and likely beneficial:

Kaphuis et al.: Calcium and Vitamin D in Sarcoidosis: Is Supplementation Safe?

 

Granulomas in sarcoidosis express high levels of 1α-hydroxylase, an enzyme that catalyzes the hydroxylation of 25-OH vitamin D to its active form, 1,25(OH)₂ vitamin D. Overproduction of 1α-hydroxylase is held responsible for the development of hypercalcemia in sarcoidosis patients. Corticosteroids are used as first-line treatment in organ-threatening sarcoidosis. In this light, osteoporosis prevention with calcium and vitamin D (CAD) supplementation is often warranted. However, sarcoidosis patients are at risk for hypercalcemia and CAD supplementation affect the calcium metabolism. We studied calcium and vitamin D disorders in a large cohort of sarcoidosis patients and investigated if CAD supplementation is safe.

Retrospectively data of 301 sarcoidosis patients from July 1986 to June 2009 were analyzed for serum calcium, 25-hydroxy vitamin D (25-(OH)D), 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D (1,25(OH)₂D) and use of CAD supplementation. Disease activity of sarcoidosis was compared with serum levels of vitamin D.

Hypercalcemia occurred in 8%. A significant negative correlation was found between 25-(OH)D and disease activity of sarcoidosis measured by somatostatin receptor scintigraphy. In our study 5 of the 104 CAD suppleted patients developed hypercalcemia, but CAD supplementation was not the cause of hypercalcemia. Patients without CAD supplementation were at higher risk for developing hypercalcemia. During CAD supplementation no hypercalcemia developed due to supplementation. Hypovitaminosis D seems to be related with more disease activity of sarcoidosis and therefore could be a potential risk factor for disease activity of sarcoidosis. Therefore vitamin D deficient sarcoidosis patients should be suppleted. © 2014 American Society for Bone and Mineral Research

 

 

 

That said, sarcoidosis is an extremely rare and serious condition. I certainly hope that you and the other members here reporting side effects of vitamin D don't suffer from such a horrible condition!

 

And whether the low vitamin D levels in depressed, CFS, schizophrenics, etc etc. is a causative or resulting factor in their is yet uncertain.

 

It's not either-or, but most certainly both. In most poeple it is probably more of a resulting factor (if you feel depressed, you don't go out into the sun...) but then it becomes a positive feedback mechanism: the lack of physical excercise and vitamin D (and of course, the overall disconnectedness from the environment) reinforces the depression. After all, despression itself is a "positive" feedback mechanism. So this question is really a chicken-and-egg problem IMO.
 

Personally I think it may have something to do with excess inflammation :o This is wholly unscientific but makes sense to me in the case that if vitamin D causes the immune system to become more active in an individual that already has excess inflammation going on ; then they are going to get worse before they get better.

 

 

No, this is highly implausible and contrary to the evidence. Everything we know about vitamin D and inflammation points to the exact opposite direction. Vitamin D sufficiency curbs inflammation and normalizes immune function. In fact, supplementation has shown beneficial effects in many autoimmune disorders, characterized by  aberrant immune activity and inflammation (i.e. in atopic dermatitis - or even type I diabetes!)

Edited by timar, 08 June 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Eruditus]

Wow you really went all out on your response. Cheers for the high grade of scientific feedback. Well since I don't yet have my latest blood work back for PTH, calcium and vit D levels I do not know if I have hyperparathyroidism. Lets assume I don't have sarcoidosis and so all I can do atm is to just keep taking as much as I can whenever  I can to the best of ability of tolerating the unpleasant side effects it offers me.  

Edited by Eruditus, 08 June 2014 - 07:44 PM.