56 replies to this topic

[DukeNukem]

Duke
To achieve and maintain your 25-OH-D3 serum level of 85 ng/ml, how much vitamin D3 do you supplement daily?
Also, have you had a bone density test (DEXA or the like)?

I take 10k IU daily (occasionally I miss a day while traveling).

I do a bone density scan once a year. All is perfect.

[nupi]

Yup, it isn't cheap. I probably spend $20,000+ a year on everything extra I do (supps and hormones). Not to mention the extra cost of buying higher-quality (naturally fed, etc.) meats whenever possible.

Could you go a little into the effects (and especially side effects) of hormone supplementation? I am fairly certain I have low testosterone (and will get it tested in January) but from what I read, supplementing it is not exactly benign?

While I don't feel like spending 20K on it - unless it really makes a night and day difference [1]- , price is (thankfully) of a lesser concern to me...


[1] At which point presumably my insurance would pick up the tab

[platypus]

Yup, it isn't cheap. I probably spend $20,000+ a year on everything extra I do (supps and hormones). Not to mention the extra cost of buying higher-quality (naturally fed, etc.) meats whenever possible.

I didn't start until I was 40, but even starting that late it's made a profoundly positive difference to my life. So, it's never too late.

It would be interesting to hear your take on the hormonal treatments and things like TA-65. For example, what's your take on HGH therapy for anti-aging?

[hivemind]

Testosterone is very cheap:

http://www.mesomorph...-androgel/2892/

[DukeNukem]

Yup, it isn't cheap. I probably spend $20,000+ a year on everything extra I do (supps and hormones). Not to mention the extra cost of buying higher-quality (naturally fed, etc.) meats whenever possible.

Could you go a little into the effects (and especially side effects) of hormone supplementation? I am fairly certain I have low testosterone (and will get it tested in January) but from what I read, supplementing it is not exactly benign?

While I don't feel like spending 20K on it - unless it really makes a night and day difference [1]- , price is (thankfully) of a lesser concern to me...


[1] At which point presumably my insurance would pick up the tab

No negative side effects that I can tell. BTW, the $20k figure is a total of everything I do, not just hormones.

[DukeNukem]

Yup, it isn't cheap. I probably spend $20,000+ a year on everything extra I do (supps and hormones). Not to mention the extra cost of buying higher-quality (naturally fed, etc.) meats whenever possible.

I didn't start until I was 40, but even starting that late it's made a profoundly positive difference to my life. So, it's never too late.

It would be interesting to hear your take on the hormonal treatments and things like TA-65. For example, what's your take on HGH therapy for anti-aging?

I don't take TA-65. I have no idea about the cost or availability.

I don't take HGH either.

[Steve_86]

Hey Duke,

When time permits are you planning to post a list or write-up on your complete supplement regime? I'm sure a lot of us would be very interested to know and it would be great to see more threads like "Duke's All-Star Supplements" from 2008.

[mia22]

Duke
To achieve and maintain your 25-OH-D3 serum level of 85 ng/ml, how much vitamin D3 do you supplement daily?
Also, have you had a bone density test (DEXA or the like)?

I take 10k IU daily (occasionally I miss a day while traveling).

I do a bone density scan once a year. All is perfect.

Wow 10k. I'm hesitant to go more than like 5k a day but I have never had my blood taken to properly dial my own dosage. I'm just guessing. I know the toxicity is really not a problem, but I'm always wary of potential unknown consequences and moderate to possibly mitigate accordingly.

Isn't 85ng/ml a bit on the high side of the ideal? If i remember correctly wasn't the consensus a little while back for vit. d to be more around approximately 50ng/ml?
At any rate, I pay attention to your opinions. Thanks for posting them.
Do you have any recommended reading/websites/books for a a kind of foundational understanding of the approaches you agree with wrt to diets, supps, living:)?
TIA

[hivemind]

Yes it is on the high side.

[niner]

I think it's on the high side too. A while back there was a paper by Melamed that generated a lot of discussion here. He found a broad minimum in all cause mortality at a 25-OH-D3 level of 50ng/ml. "How could this be?", we asked. We imagined all sorts of confounders. Subsequent to that, I've seen papers on the relationship between vitamin D and prostate cancer. Higher risk is seen in the cohort that is over 30ng/ml. There might be a similar effect in breast, and possibly other cancers. I've re-evaluated my target D level; I used to shoot for 50ng/ml, but am now looking to be under 40. If your risk of prostate cancer is low, you might want to go higher. My risk of pCa, on the basis of family history and a SNP scan, is pretty high.

[nameless]

I recall that old Indian study related to D3 levels and heart disease --

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11949730

And I agree too, that is a rather high D3 to aim for. It's in the same ballpark as the population listed in the above study.

Over time, I have also readjusted my D3 level goal. I used to aim for around 50ish, then 45-50... then 40. Now I basically aim for 35-40.Which reminds me, I should ask my endo to retest my levels next week when I see him.

[platypus]

It would be interesting to hear your take on the hormonal treatments and things like TA-65. For example, what's your take on HGH therapy for anti-aging?

I don't take TA-65. I have no idea about the cost or availability.

I don't take HGH either.

Right, I've understood that those two therapies are quite expensive. I guess bioidentical hormone therapy is not cheap either.

[hivemind]

Bioidentical testosterone is cheap. HGH costs more. What other hormone therapies are there?

[DukeNukem]

The twice yearly blood tests i get costs about $3000 in total. Then I have a $3000 annual total body exam, with cognitive tests, fitness tests, reflex tests, body scans for bone density and arterial plaque, and numerous other tests. It takes about 5-6 hours. So over the year, everything adds up. Plus taking 50-60 supps daily isn't cheap.

[Recortes]

Duke,

great to see you back here. I've been missing your posts as well. I hate facebook, but I'll try to join your page.

I think I discovered the paleo-world reading your posts here. Form me it was an eye opener. So thanks for your contributions and help.

[DukeNukem]

More evidence that high dose vit D supplementation is not the concern a lot of people still believe:

Read the "Discussion" area:
http://www.anticance...le/view/215/218

[Recortes]

I recently measured my VO2 Max at 56, which is an athletic level. I'm as strong and as fit as I've ever been, and with minimal effort (no cardio, and 4-5 gym visits a month). My CRP (inflammation marker) is rock bottom low. HDL 89. Trigs 51. No detectable arterial plaque (ultra sound test). A1c 4.8 (glycation/glucose measurement). Vit D level at 85. 9.5% bodyfat.

Duke,

what's your total Cholesterol and uric acid?. I would like to know whether other paleo members have large figures on that.

My numbers after my next level on the paleo-staircase: Total Cholesterol 252, trigs 40, HDL 97, A1c 5.4%, basal insuline 3.7. Uric acid 6.7.

I'm worried about the total Cholesterol. Every time doctors see this number they prescribe me estatins. Worrisome as well the A1c, seemingly even taking less and less carbohydrates I've not gone far enough.

BTW recently I dropped most of my dairy (used to be cheese and some kefir), by de Vany's recommendation, by I miss it. Are not you concerned on the insulinogenic effect of dairy?. Have you tested this on your labs?.

Best.

[smithx]

What kind of scans are you getting? I hope they're not CT scans. Each abdomen CT scan produces a .25% chance of cancer from the radiation. So over time your cancer risk would be quite elevated by regular scans. And I hope they are not using iodine contrast material, which can cause kidney damage.

(

The twice yearly blood tests i get costs about $3000 in total. Then I have a $3000 annual total body exam, with cognitive tests, fitness tests, reflex tests, body scans for bone density and arterial plaque, and numerous other tests. It takes about 5-6 hours. So over the year, everything adds up. Plus taking 50-60 supps daily isn't cheap.

[DukeNukem]

I recently measured my VO2 Max at 56, which is an athletic level. I'm as strong and as fit as I've ever been, and with minimal effort (no cardio, and 4-5 gym visits a month). My CRP (inflammation marker) is rock bottom low. HDL 89. Trigs 51. No detectable arterial plaque (ultra sound test). A1c 4.8 (glycation/glucose measurement). Vit D level at 85. 9.5% bodyfat.

Duke,

what's your total Cholesterol and uric acid?. I would like to know whether other paleo members have large figures on that.

My numbers after my next level on the paleo-staircase: Total Cholesterol 252, trigs 40, HDL 97, A1c 5.4%, basal insuline 3.7. Uric acid 6.7.

I'm worried about the total Cholesterol. Every time doctors see this number they prescribe me estatins. Worrisome as well the A1c, seemingly even taking less and less carbohydrates I've not gone far enough.

BTW recently I dropped most of my dairy (used to be cheese and some kefir), by de Vany's recommendation, by I miss it. Are not you concerned on the insulinogenic effect of dairy?. Have you tested this on your labs?.

Best.

I don't have my numbers handy, but they are roughly: TC 235-ish, trigs high-40's, HDL high 90's, A1c 4.8, I think. Have no idea about the other two numbers. I don't care about TC at all. The type of LDL is far more important, and I have very little small particle LDL.

I'm not a big cheese eater, but I don't avoid it. Most days the only dairy I have is half-n-half in my coffee. I'll have cheese on my burgers (I do not eat the bread) and in my omelets, but not much else.

[steampoweredgod]

I take 10k IU daily (occasionally I miss a day while traveling).

How about sun exposure, do you avoid or reduce vitamin D supplementation based on sun exposure?

[DukeNukem]

I take 10k IU daily (occasionally I miss a day while traveling).

How about sun exposure, do you avoid or reduce vitamin D supplementation based on sun exposure?

Yes. On days when I know I'll get some sun I do not take any D3, except what is in my Vimmortal (I take 3 capsules of Vim daily). Also, when I travel, I occasionally miss days. I'm not 100% religious about taking my supps. I miss about 30-40 days a year scattered around, usually do to travelling.

[stephen_b]

Worrisome as well the A1c, seemingly even taking less and less carbohydrates I've not gone far enough.

Robb Wolf spoke about A1C on one of his podcasts. He cited a study (and I'd like to find out which one) that concluded that the red blood cells of people eating paleo have a longer lifetime and so have more time to get glycated. He has stopped using this test as a measure of systemic inflammation. Less turnover in red blood cells would be a good thing.

Edited by stephen_b, 17 December 2011 - 11:01 PM.

[Recortes]

Worrisome as well the A1c, seemingly even taking less and less carbohydrates I've not gone far enough.

Robb Wolf spoke about A1C on one of his podcasts. He cited a study (and I'd like to find out which one) that concluded that the red blood cells of people eating paleo have a longer lifetime and so have more time to get glycated. He has stopped using this test as a measure of systemic inflammation. Less turnover in red blood cells would be a good thing.

Thanks Stephen,

good to know there is a possible explanation to this puzzling result. Which is not so clear to me is that less red blood turnover is better. Indeed, donation of blood is good because of the renewed turnover of all the cells.

Best.

[stephen_b]

I thought the reason was because longer average red blood cell lifetime implied longer telomeres in the cells that give rise to the RBCs. That doesn't mean that donating blood isn't healthy, as it helps deplete excess iron. It could also be one of those mild stressors that make you stronger.

[RunterBeaker]

I'd love to see a list of the supplements and pharmaceuticals Duke takes now! I've been a long time reader/occasional poster for years here and have always appreciated the input of enthusiasts like Duke and Funk who always seem to be researching the best strategies given our current knowledge.

[Mind]

I thought the reason was because longer average red blood cell lifetime implied longer telomeres in the cells that give rise to the RBCs. That doesn't mean that donating blood isn't healthy, as it helps deplete excess iron. It could also be one of those mild stressors that make you stronger.

There are also some studies that indicate increased healthspan due to altruistic behavior, such as donating blood. Sorry, don't have the links right now. Bwowk (I think) has mentioned this in the forums in the past as well. I donate because it helps people in trauma situations and because it reduces iron concentration in my body, which I regard as healthy - staying at the lower end of "normal" iron levels.

[Forever21]

Where is now? Where can I find his most recent stuff? Does anyone have a link to his Facebook? Thanks.