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Chemically induced LTP?

ciltep pde4 forskolin ltp

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#1831 xsiv1

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:50 PM

I've heard something about the increased testosterone or at least bring back the 'manhood' sensation (if lost) with this stack. What do you think?


Any increase in testosterone is likely negligible or transient at best. There are far better simple ways to address that even if you're experiencing a deficiency. The effect on ED or the like, may be due to the PDE4 inhibition and, if you're combining it with a dopamine precursor, perhaps even more beneficial in this realm.

Edited by xsiv1, 24 August 2013 - 05:53 PM.

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#1832 garysh566

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:02 PM

I've heard something about the increased testosterone or at least bring back the 'manhood' sensation (if lost) with this stack. What do you think?


Any increase in testosterone is likely negligible or transient at best. There are far better simple ways to address that even if you're experiencing a deficiency. The effect on ED or the like, may be due to the PDE4 inhibition and, if you're combining it with a dopamine precursor, perhaps even more beneficial in this realm.


agree.

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#1833 Sholrak

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:46 PM

Ok thanks. I'm not looking for more testosterone as a synonim of libido or more sex arousal, but as a way to better my social, pshysical and mental health. Forskolin is supossed to give good effect on T, although T is not the main reason to try Ciltep (which is academic performance).

I'm impatient to try this. How long iHerb takes to deliver to Europe?

#1834 cylack

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:10 PM

I do 20 "blocks" on the program which takes about 45 minutes a day. N-back training is definitely mentally demanding for me, but I find it's been a good way to track the subtle changes various permutations on the CILTEP stacks bring.


I started out an N=6 3 weeks ago, I floating between n=8 and 9 now. I cant say for sure if the stack caused this jump or if it was just natural improvement over time.

As for that cooling belt, I put in on for 20 minutes after I take a shower at night just before I fall asleep. I wear it over a t-shirt. You definitely can't sleep with it on, as it's probably not safe and it would be uncomfortable. It definitely helps me fall asleep quicker and have a more restful sleep. I haven't noticed any fat burning effects with it because I don't ever reach the point where I'm shivering and activating adiponectin and brown fat (I assume). The instructions say for maximum fat burning, you want to wear the belt on an empty stomach (fasting) and wear it until you shiver (around an hour) and preferably wear it directly on your chest without a shirt.


A two level jump in three weeks is pretty significant! How much time do you spend each day?

I've got the stack coming in next week, so look forward to seeing if my experience will mirror yours. I stopped n backing for the past three months, but prior to that I was playing at n=7 on the good days, and n=6 on the not so good ones.



#1835 fenra

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

lmao!
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#1836 Sholrak

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:11 PM

Today received my artichoke, forskohlii, l-phenylalanine and ALCAR.

Forskohlii is 130 mg/cap Planetary Herbal which contains 20% forskolin. I will have to figure out how to obtain 5mg forskolin from one cap without an miligrame scale :D Any ideas?

Also, shold I take artichoke + forskolin with empty stomach? I ate half hour ago, should I wait a bit more?

Excited to make myself interested in studying haha.

#1837 magta39

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

well....to guestimate.....open the capsule....the short end of the capsule full of powder should be about 8mgs forskolin, so take about half that amount.

#1838 lammas2

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

Excited to make myself interested in studying haha.

I'm pretty sure no stack will do this.

Anyway, the way I would do it: open the capsule on an even and smooth surface, use a credit card to make long "line" of the powder, the longer the better. Using a ruler split the line into 5 equal parts. There you go: 130*0,2/5=5,2 mg. Please don't try to snort the line. For convenience sake you can make a months worth of 5mg doses and put each dose on a small sheet of paper (or foil) and fold it.

Edited by lammas2, 27 August 2013 - 07:29 PM.

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#1839 Sholrak

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

Excited to make myself interested in studying haha.

I'm pretty sure no stack will do this.

Anyway, the way I would do it: open the capsule on an even and smooth surface, use a credit card to make long "line" of the powder, the longer the better. Using a ruler (or just approximately) split the line into 3 equal parts, then split each part into half. There you go: 130*0,25/3/2=5,4 mg. Please don't try to snort the line. For convenience sake you can make a months worth of 5mg doses and put each dose on a small sheet of paper (or foil) and fold it.


Snort? HAHAHA! That was a good one.

I have emptied at a guess 4/5 of the capsule. I may try tomorrow the line method.

I took a coffe at 5 pm, the forskolin, 450 mg artichoke and 588 mg ALCAR at 7 , and a tea at 7 30-8 Pm. It may be my impression or placebo or the ALCAR effect per se, but I entered in a different mood, with some subjective physical improving, less anxiety, less background noise... while reading some history texts. I noticed a liquid-sleepy brain while reading, and a decrease in recalling what I had read. That started to convert in more attention spam, focus, speed reading and getting ideas better. As I was getting more sleepy, took 500 mg L-PA and now that has got better.

Objectively, I have reached 2x speed on reading + underlining the texts.

This looks promising but I won't fall into euphory so soon. I have 8 days rest to my exams, so that will be a good indicative. I my try 1000-1500 mg L-PA tomorrow.

Edited by Sholrak, 27 August 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#1840 magta39

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

Snorting?...no, but sublingual forskilin
works well for me

#1841 Sholrak

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:25 PM

Uff, this is serious stuff. I feel strange, like more centered in some aspects and less in anothers. I'm under the impression it could benefit certain academic areas while decrease others, but that's totally insane and nonsense. I suspect I burned a ton of Dopamine today.

I have been focused and with good associative skills, good mood but recall and working memory, as motivation feel different (can't say if better or worst). Maybe I need more artichoke, L-Phenylalanine and more ALCAR. I will up artichoke to 900 mg, ALCAR to +1g, and l-phenylalanine to a minimum of 1000 mg daily. I will observ that tomorrow over the road. Cannot afford lose time adjusting dose-effect response so I will take teh safe and sure way.

This means, more NGF (ALCAR), dopamine precursors, more artichoke probably, less coffee but mixed with green tea...

Also, how does Piracetam marries with this stack? Any views on that?

#1842 magta39

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:22 AM

Piracetam works well....oxi not so good

#1843 xsiv1

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:06 PM

Uff, this is serious stuff. I feel strange, like more centered in some aspects and less in anothers. I'm under the impression it could benefit certain academic areas while decrease others, but that's totally insane and nonsense. I suspect I burned a ton of Dopamine today.

I have been focused and with good associative skills, good mood but recall and working memory, as motivation feel different (can't say if better or worst). Maybe I need more artichoke, L-Phenylalanine and more ALCAR. I will up artichoke to 900 mg, ALCAR to +1g, and l-phenylalanine to a minimum of 1000 mg daily. I will observ that tomorrow over the road. Cannot afford lose time adjusting dose-effect response so I will take teh safe and sure way.

This means, more NGF (ALCAR), dopamine precursors, more artichoke probably, less coffee but mixed with green tea...

Also, how does Piracetam marries with this stack? Any views on that?


I'd try and give it a bit more time first without having to add compounds. I felt the same way..a tad out of sorts until my body adjusted. Once you begin to feel the effects wearing, some ALCAR thrown in is a pretty decent idea. L-PA in 1gram amount may or may not prove anxiogenic with the stack if taken at once and depending on your own tolerance to it.

#1844 Sholrak

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

It's hard to get used to the benefits but today I could see the quid of question: looks like at the moment of reading and learning, working memory is more subtle, not non-existing, in benefit of the long term memory, which has in a giant way increased.

For example, chemistry exercises seemed a bit more dull to get catched at first but now working memory is "shorter" and rapidly leads to the learned information to store in the long term memory. I continue with ALCAR an L-PA moderate doses during the day, today added 600 mg of Piracetam with subtle but highly synergic effect :D


Also, this long term potentiation gives me sociability, talkative mood, and I'm starting to reverse depersonalization and derealization in a better grade and different way than Cerebrolysin did, quite impressive. I am starting to unbury and remember lost memories too, which is fascinating.

I like this, and I'm curious to see how will combine Ciltep and Cerebrolysin. Infinite long term memory + infinite working memory= WIN

#1845 xsiv1

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:59 AM

The nice part is that you can use it for extended periods of time and it's relatively cheap compared to other nootropic compounds/stacks.

#1846 Babychris

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:23 AM

On CILTEP stack I become very paranoid about my memory. I feel that I don't have any memory. Why ?
I guess I need some galantamine or choline precursor ?

#1847 magta39

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:19 PM

Hmmmm....I don't have that symptom...but I find that 2mgs galantamine synergizes very well with the forskolin
Galantamine enhancement of long-term potentiation is mediated by calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II and protein kinase C activation.

Moriguchi S, Shioda N, Han F, Yeh JZ, Narahashi T, Fukunaga K.

Source

Department of Pharmacology, Graduate School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Tohoku University, Aoba-ku, Sendai, Miyagi, Japan. shigeki@mail.pharm.tohoku.ac.jp
Abstract

Galantamine, a novel Alzheimer's drug, is known to inhibit acetylcholinesterase activity and potentiate nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) in the brain. We previously reported that galantamine potentiates the NMDA-induced currents in primary cultured rat cortical neurons. We now studied the effects of galantamine on long-term potentiation (LTP) in the rat hippocampal CA1 regions. The field excitatory postsynaptic potentials (fEPSPs) were induced by stimulation of the Schaffer collateral/commissural pathways in the hippocampal CA1 region. Treatment with 0.01-10 microM galantamine did not affect the slope of fEPSPs in the CA1 region. Galantamine treatment increased calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II (CaMKII) and protein kinase Calpha (PKCalpha) activities with a bell-shaped dose-response curve peaked at 1 microM, thereby increasing the phosphorylation of AMPA receptor, myristoylated alanine-rich protein kinase C, and NMDA receptor as downstream substrates of CaMKII and/or PKCalpha. By contrast, galatamine treatment did not affect protein kinase A activity. Consistent with the bell-shaped CaMKII and PKCalpha activation, galantamine treatment enhanced LTP in the hippocampal CA1 regions with the same bell-shaped dose-response curve. Furthermore, LTP potentiation induced by galantamine treatment at 1 microM was closely associated with both CaMKII and PKC activation with concomitant increase in phosphorylation of their downstream substrates except for synapsin I. In addition, the enhancement of LTP by galantamine was accompanied with alpha7-type nAChR activation. These results suggest that galantamine potentiates NMDA receptor-dependent LTP through alpha7-type nAChR activation, by which the postsynaptic CaMKII and PKC are activated.

#1848 Sholrak

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

On CILTEP stack I become very paranoid about my memory. I feel that I don't have any memory. Why ?
I guess I need some galantamine or choline precursor ?


This has been happening to me, mainly the first days into the stack.

It's pure perception of the change your long-term memory is getting. We perceive working memory as an attempt to deal with a stressor or learn something, in order to incorporate that wisdom into our long-term memory.
With this potentiation of the LTM, the working memory phase diminishes a bit (subjectively), so you can feel you have not memory. This is not true, according to my experiences, and working memory perception normalizes after a while.


I love this stack. Bearing in mind how cheap it is, the safety and absence of side effects, this is a must have, and I will be doing it forever (into cycles of many days/week). I can remember almost everything I studied with medium photographic recall. This is, not only good for students. It also has made me 'different'. I have an overall higher self-steem, I'm more talkative, I'm more patient, more motivated, more social, and less anhedonic. It seems to be restoring the sinapses of atrophied neurons or something, as I'm getting long term old memories back. It also seems to be a great antidepressant. The first day I took the combo, after two hour, when it kicked, I had a need to laught, and only laught. Definitely, anhedonics should take a look at this.

I have to try a pure forskolin extract and the mesembrone instead the luteolin for PDE4 inhibition.

I will order some Rhodiola (I have not tried it), something says to me it fits perfect with this (also cAMP activity If I remember right), and also the endorphins/enkephalines potentiation or raise should match very well.

I'm interested in skin tanning effects. I'm caucasian white and my face skin looks a bit darker, but it may be my imagination.
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#1849 abelard lindsay

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

On CILTEP stack I become very paranoid about my memory. I feel that I don't have any memory. Why ?
I guess I need some galantamine or choline precursor ?


This has been happening to me, mainly the first days into the stack.

It's pure perception of the change your long-term memory is getting. We perceive working memory as an attempt to deal with a stressor or learn something, in order to incorporate that wisdom into our long-term memory.
With this potentiation of the LTM, the working memory phase diminishes a bit (subjectively), so you can feel you have not memory. This is not true, according to my experiences, and working memory perception normalizes after a while.


I take ALCAR (Acetyl-L-Carnitine) everyday as part of my normal stack. I tried removing it from the stack one day and doing a full round of cambridgebrainsciences.com (paired associates, grammatical reasoning, spatial search ,odd one out). My short term memory (paired associates) was 1 point worse. I added 500mg back in the next day and redid the tests and stack performance was one point better than my morning and previous day's baseline. I would say then that ALCAR is a necessary part of the stack in order to prevent short-term-memory degradation due to forskolin upregulating ACHE.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 02 September 2013 - 09:54 PM.

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#1850 Strangelove

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:58 PM

Great that CILTEP works great for so many members! I am not quite there yet, as I feel an increase in concentration, the subjects I read are a lot more interesting, but I feel like something is missing from the effect (concentration wise...) maybe is my mild ADD-I? Also there are times I feel stimulated and a little sleepy at the same time (if that is possible lol).

I only use artichoke, forskolin and L-Phenylalanine, what is the next thing to add in the stack? ALCAR? Piracetam?

#1851 xsiv1

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:47 AM

Great that CILTEP works great for so many members! I am not quite there yet, as I feel an increase in concentration, the subjects I read are a lot more interesting, but I feel like something is missing from the effect (concentration wise...) maybe is my mild ADD-I? Also there are times I feel stimulated and a little sleepy at the same time (if that is possible lol).

I only use artichoke, forskolin and L-Phenylalanine, what is the next thing to add in the stack? ALCAR? Piracetam?


I have felt the very same effects. Feeling more alert but somehow sleepy. It's sporadic too. I'm thinking that perhaps I'm a bit sleep deprived on some days or maybe not enough rest from workouts. I normally train Monday through Friday and take weekends off. I haven't pinpointed the cause yet but it's likely one or both of the aforementioned. I'm going to try and add ALCAR in the morning at 500mgs instead of at 2:15-2:30pm. We'll see how that goes. I took the entire weekend off the stack so tomorrow I should be primed nicely for its effects. Normally, I'd try and get to sleep earlier or take a day off in between my workouts but that isn't always possible. The workouts keep me balanced nicely and effect my mood very positively for the rest of the day and enhance the depth of my sleep which can be fragile at times. Breaking my routine there can also cause me to drop out of it entirely speaking from experience from the last two decades. I don't want to fall back out of shape. Especially at 41.

#1852 MrRogersBestNeighbor

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

Great that CILTEP works great for so many members! I am not quite there yet, as I feel an increase in concentration, the subjects I read are a lot more interesting, but I feel like something is missing from the effect (concentration wise...) maybe is my mild ADD-I? Also there are times I feel stimulated and a little sleepy at the same time (if that is possible lol).

I only use artichoke, forskolin and L-Phenylalanine, what is the next thing to add in the stack? ALCAR? Piracetam?


I had a similar experience, except I've only taken it for a few days and haven't really experimented with it much yet. I haven't tested how well I perform when I've taken the stack either, but I didn't notice really any increase in energy, mood or motivation. Part of it may be that I've taken Adderall so long, anything with a stimulant-like effect is mild at best.
Does it take a bit of time for the stack to take effect, like several days to a week or is it pretty immediate?

I've also thought that part of the problem might be lack of L-phenylalanine, because I feel somewhat fatigued when I take it. I felt better when I upped the dose of artichoke extract and forskolin. But from what I've read in this thread so far, that shouldn't be the case.
Any ideas?

Could it be the brand of forskolin?: http://www.amazon.co...words=forskolin
That's where I bought my source of foskolin. I thought about getting the C-Bolic, to ensure I got a brand that has worked for at least one person in this thread.

#1853 abelard lindsay

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:03 AM

Great that CILTEP works great for so many members! I am not quite there yet, as I feel an increase in concentration, the subjects I read are a lot more interesting, but I feel like something is missing from the effect (concentration wise...) maybe is my mild ADD-I? Also there are times I feel stimulated and a little sleepy at the same time (if that is possible lol).

I only use artichoke, forskolin and L-Phenylalanine, what is the next thing to add in the stack? ALCAR? Piracetam?


I had a similar experience, except I've only taken it for a few days and haven't really experimented with it much yet. I haven't tested how well I perform when I've taken the stack either, but I didn't notice really any increase in energy, mood or motivation. Part of it may be that I've taken Adderall so long, anything with a stimulant-like effect is mild at best.
Does it take a bit of time for the stack to take effect, like several days to a week or is it pretty immediate?


Are you taking ALCAR with the stack? I added it to my first page recommendation recently. I think this was one of the essential ingredients I was taking on a regular basis that was preventing fatigue from forskolin's tendency to increase ACHE. I've been experimenting with not taking any supplements in the morning except the stack to see if I can make it through the whole day and get a lot of work done without even coffee or an afternoon NALT. Upping the ALCAR to more than 500mg or more in the morning seems to do the trick. I'm still probing the point at which diminishing marginal returns seem to kick in as mornings keep getting better the more ALCAR I take.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 05 September 2013 - 04:03 AM.


#1854 magta39

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:38 AM

I have been taking ALCAR and artichoke every morning, even on days I don't take forskolin, this works very well. I am only taking forskolin every other day 5mgs. I take 2mgs galantamine with the forskolin. For me there seems to be a residual effect lasting into the second day. On days I don't take forskolin I double up my piracetam dose.

#1855 Babychris

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

I think I'll stick with galantamine since ALCAR seems to make me irritable and braig fogged.

I like the "nostalgic effect" from galantamine much more than the viril one I get with alcar..
And I guess that one will work as well as the other.

#1856 xsiv1

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:38 PM

I've swapped out my dopamine precursor for 500mgs ALCAR in the morning along with 450mgs Artichoke and 5mgs Forskolin. It seems to be working better for me in terms of mental fatigue later on. I'm finding it more activating as well. I'm still switching out Artichoke for Zembrin depending on what I feel like that morning. Still can't discern any difference between the two - so in the future, I'll be sticking with Jarrow's Artichoke Extract.

#1857 abelard lindsay

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 04:59 PM

So I've been hill-climbing my forskolin/ALCAR ratio and I think I've hit the sweet spot. The ratio of 1mg forskolin to 200mg ALCAR seems to work great. For several days now I've been able to get through the whole day without caffeine or excessive sleepiness at this ratio. I've also only been taking the stack in the morning to verify this is really working and not the result of something else I'm taking.

#1858 xsiv1

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:39 PM

So I've been hill-climbing my forskolin/ALCAR ratio and I think I've hit the sweet spot. The ratio of 1mg forskolin to 200mg ALCAR seems to work great. For several days now I've been able to get through the whole day without caffeine or excessive sleepiness at this ratio. I've also only been taking the stack in the morning to verify this is really working and not the result of something else I'm taking.


Ah, so what you're saying is that it's not your total daily dose, simply that you'll take it in bumps until you reach your daily total. Interesting. Since I've removed the dopamine precursor, I'm not getting as fatigued mentally later in the day, however the 'alertness' feel of my initial morning dose has also subsided.

#1859 abelard lindsay

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:36 AM

So I've been hill-climbing my forskolin/ALCAR ratio and I think I've hit the sweet spot. The ratio of 1mg forskolin to 200mg ALCAR seems to work great. For several days now I've been able to get through the whole day without caffeine or excessive sleepiness at this ratio. I've also only been taking the stack in the morning to verify this is really working and not the result of something else I'm taking.


Ah, so what you're saying is that it's not your total daily dose, simply that you'll take it in bumps until you reach your daily total. Interesting. Since I've removed the dopamine precursor, I'm not getting as fatigued mentally later in the day, however the 'alertness' feel of my initial morning dose has also subsided.


I think you might be misunderstanding me. I take the whole stack once in the morning. I have been altering the ratio of alcar dosages to forskolin slightly every day using my milligram scale and what I've found is that if I get 1mg of forskolin for every 200mg of ALCAR I can get through the day with nothing else without getting sleepy and feeling great all day. This is of course using low doses of forskolin <=5mg. There might be an exponential curve at work here.

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#1860 xsiv1

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:50 AM

I see, OK, that clarifies things. You're still getting your intended dosage at once per day in the morning but titrating the amount in your daily total while maintaining that ratio of 1:200.





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