7 replies to this topic

[timmo]

Hi all, I've been reading this forum for a while but only just signed up as a member! The reason I'm asking is being from the UK it is very difficult to get hold of racetams and the few sites that sell them always seem to be out of stock, so can't rely on having a constant supply. Are there any other supplements that work in a similar way that I could use as a substitute? I've been looking at DMAE and Huperzine A but not sure if they would come close.

My current stack includes:

Alpha-GPC
ALCAR
Tyrosine
Rhodiola Rosea (For depression)
5-HTP (For anxiety/sleep aid)
Multivitamins
Fish oil

I would say I have mild depression and social anxiety issues, but mainly I want to improve focus, concentration and memory/thinking faster. Is there anything else I could add which might help with these issues?

Thanks

[timmo]

Sorry to bump this but it didn't show up when I posted it and now it has it's ended up near the bottom!

Basically I'm looking for a substitute or something that gives a similar effect to racetams, as it is hard to find a regular/reliable supplier in the UK.

[Dirk_Diggler]

ALCAR
Fish Oil
Multivitamin

Instead of a choline source like Alpha-GPC or Citicoline, try Centrophenoxine that has multiple benefits and is a slight choline donator. There is such a thing as too much choline and without racetams to sop it up, you may be overdoing it.

And creatine is a nootropic that should be widely available everywhere. Sulbutiamine works well, but the effects diminish with regular use.

And of course caffeine would work well as a short term cognition agent. But if you take centrophenoxine or sulbutiamine, the caffeine would probably be too much since all three have some stimulant properties.

Theanine would be a nice addition too, and would have relaxing/balancing effects on the stimulants.

When at all possible, try to use supplements/nootropics that have some basis in nature. Creatine is naturally present in the human body, theanine in green tea, ALCAR in red meats, Fish oil in fish, etc. I know centrophenoxine and sulbutiamine aren't natural, but they are pretty safe and are more like engineered vitamins/supplements.

There isn't really a substitute for racetams that have the same mecahanism of action (of course we don't know the exact mechanism of action for racetams). Some people use pyroglutamate, which is what piracetam is based off of. And pyroglutamate is natural.

Hope this helps Good thread

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 02 October 2011 - 11:37 PM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

But there is nothing you could substitute for the racetams that would work just as well, in my opinion. I don't think racetams are that hard to acquire there, are they? You could always keep it simple, with piracetam. You don't really need the exotic/rare racetams, but piracetam should be relatively easy to acquire. Unless you just don't want to use racetams. Trying to find a substitute for them is sorta akin to trying to find a substitute for coffee. Yeah, there are substitutes, but the substitutes could have side effects that are worse than what you're using. I'm just using this analogy because I just think if it's not broke, why fix it? If you're looking for something that works just as well as racetams, but aren't racetams, then why are you looking for something? Racetams are very safe and effective, I just don't really know why you would go looking for something else. Unless of course they're not available in your area. But I find it hard to believe that you would have much trouble finding them.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Sorry for all the posts...

But...

A choline esterase inhibitor such as galantamine should have somewhat the same end effect as the racetams. It prevents the breakdown of acetylcholine so I guess it would be the next best thing if you didn't want to use the racetams.

[rvogels1]

Fish oil, multivitamin, ALCAR, excercise, healthy meals and good sleep. Occasionally, boost up your choline levels, but not every day. I take maybe 100 mgs of DMAE every couple of days. Too much acetylcholine can lead to depressive tendencies and/or a diminished memory, among other things. Well balanced neurotransmission is the key. Racetams are vital, though. Don't skimp out on them. That should enhance your cognition, promote a happier default mental state and give you a chance to have better social experiences that will gradually chip away at the social anxiety and boost your social self-confidence.

I would say that all of this is all that you need. I do take sulbutiamine (low dose) every other day or so, and I do take Ashwaghanda every day. They are not necessary, though. Large stacks with exotic molecules are simply excessive and often counter-productive. Stick to the basics and over time you will get results. Don't shrug off the non-supplemental components, though!

Also, tyrosine can definitely enhance your focus, but it can also strengthen anxious reactions as it is the progenitor of several neurotransmitters, one of them mediating the sympathetic nervous system's fight-or-flight response, which is a large component of anxiety. Our brains get scared of other people and make us want to run away. We then have a neocortical, psychological response on top of that. The choice to take it is yours.

[nezxon]

Without racetams I think my stack would include Adrafinil, CDP Choline, Centrophenoxine, Deprenyl, Huperzine A, Hydergine, Picamilon, Pyritinol, and Sulbutiamine.

For me, racetams (Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Pramiracetam, Aniracetam) have no equal in terms of nootropic function. I doubt I could find a satisfactory nootropic stack that doesn't include at least one, but preferably all four of those racetams (for cost reasons I'm only taking Pira/Oxi/Prami).

[Metabolic]

I second the soul-booty-o-mine. Makes you wanna focus on that thang.