21 replies to this topic

[#1hit]

It's nearing that time of the semester where the workload is getting heavy enough to merit beggining to take caffeine in regular dosages to whip out mass amounts of assignments and have energy to study, and the only question left is where to get the caffeine from.

I have regularly heard the health benefits of the big three caffeine sources, coffee, green tea,and yerba mate sung, but would like some input about what other people drink, and which of these would be the optimal source of caffeine for mental function and overall health.

It seems like coffee flat out has the most caffeine, so I would say this would give the largest spike of energy, but is notorious for the crash that follows after. It also has been proven to be good for the brain and contains a high antioxidant potential.

Both green tea and yerba mate seem to offer a milder, much less edgy lift attributed to other antioxidants / amino acids, such as green tea's l-theanine. While yerba mate has been cited as having greater antioxidant amounts by ORAC, It seems like they each have their own specific antioxidants and compounds that differentiate the two.

So again, Im just wondering, what would you consider as the best source of caffeine for daily use? And would it perhaps be a good idea to sort of balance the three, by say taking a cup of green tea in the morning, then a cup of yerba mate in the late morning / early afternoon, and on some days replacing both with just a cup of coffee, or is there greater benefit by taking the same drink day after day?

[longevitynow]

Coffee tends to keep me up at night, much more so than the others. Is it the other components in coffee, or the mgs of caffeine? I don't know. Likewise, i'm more focused on green tea, and more wired on coffee. In this case I think it is other components in the coffee that make me more nervous, rather than the tiny amount of theanine in green tea making me more relaxed. And I am a fan of theanine, but in my experience you need a lot to get an effect.

[thedevinroy]

I combine them to get the most out of it. I can't drink Yerba Mate without Black Tea. It tastes to woodsy and herbally. Coffee is a great tool, too, but it needs greater frequency of administration than does Tea. One morning I made coffee and put a tea bag of each Yerba Mate and Black Tea in it. Mixed it with some cream, and I was good for 8 hours straight.

Yerba Mate and Coffee have a lot of Harmala Alkaloids (MAO-A inhibitors). Coffee has more caffeine. Yerba mate has other xanthines (adenosine blockers / PDE inhibitors). Green Tea and Black Tea have a lot of Catechins (COMT inhibitors) with green tea having more EGCG (high affinity COMT inhibitor) and black tea with more caffeine. Thus, a combination will keep you going for longer. The pre-frontal cortex I believe primarily uses COMT to break down dopamine and not MAO-A, so green tea is theoretically your best bet, plus it has the least amount of xanthines.

Cocoa, though not mentioned, has a great deal of chemicals which you can get in combined form as "chocamine" - a work out supplement that those with ADHD seem to benefit from. It containes tyramine, phenethylamine, harmala alkaloids, xanthines like caffeine, and a whole bunch of other good stuff.

[#1hit]

This is going to be fast because I'm on my way to class, but does anyone have any conclusions on whether yerba mate consumption increases the risk of cancer or decreases it? I'm hearing both sides of the story right now.

[thedevinroy]

This is going to be fast because I'm on my way to class, but does anyone have any conclusions on whether yerba mate consumption increases the risk of cancer or decreases it? I'm hearing both sides of the story right now.

Hot teas and coffee and yerba mate, only because they are hot, cause cancer of the mouth. Extracts, if pure or not contaminated, will have no carcinogenic effect. Also... you can just let your tea cool.

[noos]

This is going to be fast because I'm on my way to class, but does anyone have any conclusions on whether yerba mate consumption increases the risk of cancer or decreases it? I'm hearing both sides of the story right now.

The problem seems not only to be temperature but some components in mate. I also was concerned with this but in some south american countries they drink mate all day and there is no indication of an increased esophageal cancer. I asked a person about this. I am not sure if there are studies, but neither are clear signs increased cancers of this types in those areas.

For me, mate produces a different stimulation than coffee, like it activates the muscles and causes less irritability.

[#1hit]

Yea as long as the results are going through the process of scientific experimentation the logical conclusion seems to be that the hot temperature at which the mate was drunk in the studies causes the cancer, or the wood-burning method of curing many plantations use on mate caused it, as anything burned is usually carcinogenic. I would mainly attribute it to the hot water, because the studies cite that the cancers with increased incidence where those of the mouth, throat, and lungs. The mouth and throat cancers are caused by the hot water, in fact they are all cancers corroleted with smoking, which is very prevelant in countries whose populations drink large quantities of yerba mate.

I am thus indicated to allow my tea to cool before drinking it, and to buy from organic growers that don't smoke their yerba mate. As far as I see it, those precautions should protect one from cancer caused by drinking yerba mate.

Oh, and that's an awesome idea to combine all three drinks into one super health drink, I really think im gonna try that one of these days.

[noos]

Oh, and that's an awesome idea to combine all three drinks into one super health drink, I really think im gonna try that one of these days.

Mate and green tea go well but coffee I don´t think so.

[AbolishtheState]

The following links provide rather concise lists of the benefits/detriments of each beverage. Unique ratios of xanthine derivatives--such as caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline--and the presence of other physiologically active substances, cause each to have a distinct effect on the body and mind.

Yerba mate:
http://en.wikipedia...._and_properties
http://en.wikipedia....Health_benefits
Coffee:
http://en.wikipedia....nd_pharmacology
Green Tea:
http://en.wikipedia....#Health_effects
http://en.wikipedia....entific_studies
Guarana:
http://en.wikipedia....gnitive_effects

I personally enjoy the synergy between green tea and mate. Mate's xanthine derivative ratio tends to exert more influence on the muscles than that of other caffeinated beverages, which primarily affect the CNS. Apparently, mate relaxes smooth muscle tissue, while stimulating myocardial tissue. Green tea, which contains smaller amounts of caffeine; the anxiolytic and nootropic substance, theanine; and various other substances producing various health benefits, helps me to focus and direct the physical stimulation provided by mate. When I add coffee to the mix, I tend to become a little manic and start experiencing various symptoms of over-stimulation, such as: involuntary muscle movements, racing thoughts, anxiety, hyper vigilance, etc.

[QuantumTubule]

What about this;
200mg Theanine
EGCG
Pylcogenol
Yerba Mate


I think this could be the ideal combo. Theanine seems to have a mild mind expanding nature, through promotion of alpha waves, definite concentration enhancement. EGCG is a beta androgenic which increase basal metabolism while also being a good antioxidant. Pylcogenol is a good antioxidant, i feel it mimics Cocoa in effect. Yerba Mate is good because it almost seems to have a mild psychedalic properties which enhance creativity. Its important that caffenine doses are low to moderate, as caffenine definitly inhibts cognition in higher doses. It must be remembered that caffenine is a depressent and a hormosis effect cause the stimulation. Therefore high dose leads to brief thought scattered high before a crash.

Havent looked at the Science however I do know that Harmla alkaniods can be carcinogen when burnt, its the reason why burnt meat is carcinogenic. Meh special occasions then eh

[Neurotik]

Probably a good idea to cut out Yerba Mate.

http://www.caring4ca...ition/questions




The Latest on Yerba Mate

A recent study aimed to provide more concrete information about this topic by carefully examining both hot and cold preparations of mate. The researchers wanted to determine whether yerba mate contained a group of compounds called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (26). Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are classified as carcinogens which means they are substances that are known to cause cancer in animals and humans.
Beyond looking for PAHs, the researchers wanted to know how much of these compounds are in mate. This is important because many foods and beverages contain small amounts of PAHs. These trace amounts of potentially cancer-causing chemicals typically do not cause any health problems. In larger quantities however, they may cause damage in the body that will increase cancer risk over the long term.
The researchers looked for levels of 21 different PAHs in eight commonly used commercial brands of yerba mate. They examined PAH levels in the mate leaves and in tea, prepared both hot and cold, from the leaves. As mentioned, many things we eat and drink can contain some PAHs, so the researchers also checked PAH levels in green tea leaves for comparison purposes.
When looking at the leaves of the eight commercial yerba mate products, the researchers found that they contained total PAH concentration ranging from 2 to 11 times the levels found in green tea leaves. Regarding the amount of PAHs found in the drinks made from yerba mate leaves, the researchers found that both hot and cold water preparations contained significant amount of PAHs. The researchers did not compare this directly to green tea.
However, they did determine that if prepared in the traditional way and consumed in amounts typically enjoyed by South Americans who drink mate, the intake of certain carcinogenic PAHs was comparable to what a person would get by smoking a pack of cigarettes per day. The study authors noted that the comparison with cigarette smoking is supported by other research that shows that urine levels of the breakdown products of PAHs are similar after smoking cigarettes and after drinking mate.
The Bottom Line

Despite the general belief that mate is a health drink, the evidence suggests otherwise. When prepared and consumed in the traditional South American manner, yerba mate contains high levels of carcinogenic (cancer causing) chemicals called PAHs (26).
It is important to note that the traditional preparation of yerba mate involves adding water to the same batch of leaves several times and drinking all of these cups of tea. This will expose the person consuming mate to higher levels of PAHs than if the drink were prepared once and the leaves discarded. In this sense, enjoying a single cup of yerba mate tea that has been prepared from a fresh tea bag is unlikely to expose a person to the high levels of PAHs that are found in traditionally prepared brews.
The bottom line is that when consumed in the traditional South America way, yerba mate drinks contribute significant amounts of carcinogenic PAHs to the diet. If you have enjoyed a cup of yerba mate yourself from time to time, do not panic. You have not been exposed to PAH levels beyond what is found in many foods and drinks in the average American diet.
In summary yerba mate may not be the best choice of beverages for good health, but when consumed occasionally, yerba mate is very unlikely to be linked with any type of cancer.
References

• Heck CI, de Mejia EG. Yerba Mate Tea (Ilex paraguariensis): a comprehensive review on chemistry, health implications, and technological considerations. J Food Sci. 2007;72(9):R138-51.
• De Stefani E, Boffetta P, Deneo-Pellegrini H, Correa P, Ronco AL, Brennan P, Ferro G, Acosta G, Mendilaharsu M. Non-alcoholic beverages and risk of bladder cancer in Uruguay. BMC Cancer. 2007;7:57.
• Bates MN, Hopenhayn C, Rey OA, Moore LE. Bladder cancer and mate consumption in Argentina: a case-control study. Cancer Lett. 2007;246(1-2):268-73.
• Ribeiro Pinto LF, Teixeira Rossini AM, Albano RM, Felzenszwalb I, de Moura Gallo CV, Nunes RA, Andreollo NA. Mechanisms of esophageal cancer development in Brazilians.Mutat Res. 2003;544(2-3):365-73.
• Goldenberg D, Golz A, Joachims HZ. The beverage maté: a risk factor for cancer of the head and neck. Head Neck. 2003;25(7):595-601.
• Sewram V, De Stefani E, Brennan P, Boffetta P. Maté consumption and the risk of squamous cell esophageal cancer in uruguay. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2003;12(6):508-13.
• Goldenberg D. Maté: a risk factor for oral and oropharyngeal cancer. Oral Oncol. 2002;38(7):646-9.
• Nishimoto IN, Pintos J, Schlecht NF, Torloni H, Carvalho AL, Kowalski LP, Franco EL. Assessment of control selection bias in a hospital-based case-control study of upper aero-digestive tract cancers. J Cancer Epidemiol Prev. 2002;7(3):131-41.
• Castellsagué X, Muñoz N, De Stefani E, Victora CG, Castelletto R, Rolón PA. Influence of mate drinking, hot beverages and diet on esophageal cancer risk in South America. Int J Cancer. 2000;88(4):658-64.
• De Stefani E, Fierro L, Mendilaharsu M, Ronco A, Larrinaga MT, Balbi JC, Alonso S, Deneo-Pellegrini H. Meat intake, 'mate' drinking and renal cell cancer in Uruguay: a case-control study. Br J Cancer. 1998;78(9):1239-43.
• De Stefani E, Fierro L, Barrios E, Ronco A. Tobacco, alcohol, diet and risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma: a case-control study in Uruguay. Leuk Res. 1998;22(5):445-52.
• De Stefani E, Fierro L, Correa P, Fontham E, Ronco A, Larrinaga M, Balbi J, Mendilaharsu M. Mate drinking and risk of lung cancer in males: a case-control study from Uruguay. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 1996;5(7):515-9.
• Rolón PA, Castellsagué X, Benz M, Muñoz N. Hot and cold mate drinking and esophageal cancer in Paraguay. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 1995;4(6):595-605.
• Pintos J, Franco EL, Oliveira BV, Kowalski LP, Curado MP, Dewar R. Maté, coffee, and tea consumption and risk of cancers of the upper aerodigestive tract in southern Brazil.Epidemiology. 1994;5(6):583-90.
• Castelletto R, Castellsague X, Muñoz N, Iscovich J, Chopita N, Jmelnitsky A. Alcohol, tobacco, diet, mate drinking, and esophageal cancer in Argentina. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 1994;3(7):557-64.
• Muir CS, McKinney PA. Cancer of the oesophagus: a global overview. Eur J Cancer Prev. 1992;1(3):259-64.
• De Stefani E, Correa P, Fierro L, Fontham E, Chen V, Zavala D. Black tobacco, maté, and bladder cancer. A case-control study from Uruguay. Cancer. 1991;67(2):536-40.
• Oreggia F, De Stefani E, Correa P, Fierro L. Risk factors for cancer of the tongue in Uruguay. Cancer. 1991;67(1):180-3.
• De Stefani E, Muñoz N, Estève J, Vasallo A, Victora CG, Teuchmann S. Mate drinking, alcohol, tobacco, diet, and esophageal cancer in Uruguay. Cancer Res. 1990;50(2):426-31.
• Abnet CC. Carcinogenic food contaminants. Cancer Invest. 2007;25(3):189-96.
• Fagundes RB, Abnet CC, Strickland PT, Kamangar F, Roth MJ, Taylor PR, Dawsey SM. Higher urine 1-hydroxy pyrene glucuronide (1-OHPG) is associated with tobacco smoke exposure and drinking maté in healthy subjects from Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. BMC Cancer. 2006;6:139.
• Fonseca CA, Otto SS, Paumgartten FJ, Leitão AC. Nontoxic, mutagenic, and clastogenic activities of Mate-Chimarrão (Ilex paraguariensis). J Environ Pathol Toxicol Oncol. 2000;19(4):333-46.
• Gonzalez de Mejia E, Song YS, Ramirez-Mares MV, Kobayashi H. Effect of yerba mate (Ilex paraguariensis) tea on topoisomerase inhibition and oral carcinoma cell proliferation. J Agric Food Chem. 2005;53(6):1966.
• Ramirez-Mares MV, Chandra S, de Mejia EG. In vitro chemopreventive activity of Camellia sinensis, Ilex paraguariensis and Ardisia compressa tea extracts and selected polyphenols. Mutat Res. 2004;554(1-2):53-65.
• Chandra S, De Mejia Gonzalez E. Polyphenolic compounds, antioxidant capacity, and quinone reductase activity of an aqueous extract of Ardisia compressa in comparison to mate (Ilex paraguariensis) and green (Camellia sinensis) teas. J Agric Food Chem. 2004;52(11):3583-9.
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[#1hit]

That won't be hard advice to follow, I actually tried yerba mate last sunday and monday, and despite the arguments of proponents purporting that it has no crash, is a caffeine buzz without the jitters and so on, both days I had the same focused but edgy / off feeling that caffeine gives me, and bot days I noticed a crash similar to that of caffeine.

For me, I'm sticking with green tea.

[thedevinroy]

PolycyclicHydroCarbons are in EVERYTHING natural. Frickin Methylphenidate has to aromatic rings... as well as a Modafinil and a hsot of other drugs and bioflavanoids. I just don't buy it. Your body has enough enzymes to break that stuff down from affecting DNA.

I mean perhaps they mean that the ring-to-ring hydrocarbon structure like napthalene is what is carcinogic, not if it has a nitrogen or oxygen or sulfar atom in the ring or off the ring. I don't know. It just seems awfully strange of a statement to make about an age-old drink. Perhaps as the body ages, the enzymes that break those down become depleted and then anything can affect the DNA. Old people can't have it, or they'll grow thumbs for teeth? I'm not making any sense...

Anyone else feel some heavy doubt from your soul after reading that biased article?

[Neurotik]

PolycyclicHydroCarbons are in EVERYTHING natural. Frickin Methylphenidate has to aromatic rings... as well as a Modafinil and a hsot of other drugs and bioflavanoids. I just don't buy it. Your body has enough enzymes to break that stuff down from affecting DNA.

I mean perhaps they mean that the ring-to-ring hydrocarbon structure like napthalene is what is carcinogic, not if it has a nitrogen or oxygen or sulfar atom in the ring or off the ring. I don't know. It just seems awfully strange of a statement to make about an age-old drink. Perhaps as the body ages, the enzymes that break those down become depleted and then anything can affect the DNA. Old people can't have it, or they'll grow thumbs for teeth? I'm not making any sense...

Anyone else feel some heavy doubt from your soul after reading that biased article?

I think this is one of red flags I'm trying to get my head around:

However, they did determine that if prepared in the traditional way and consumed in amounts typically enjoyed by South Americans who drink mate, the intake of certain carcinogenic PAHs was comparable to what a person would get by smoking a pack of cigarettes per day.


Yes, a lot of what we eat might contain PAHs, but it seems from these findings that Mate contains a helluva lot more than one might feel comfortable with at one sitting (on a regular basis.)

[thedevinroy]

http://www.multiples...urnalArticle/14

Tobacco ain't all that bad until it's smoked.

[panhedonic]

Yerba mate is most consumed in Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina than anywhere else in the world (way more than tea or coffee). Look at the cancer rates. Nowhere near as high as many other countries. So I'm with you, Devinthayer.

BTW, these countries consume huge amounts of grass fed beef, too.

http://www.guardian....s-uk-rate-drops

[trip96]

If you're going the green tea route, why not try some matcha tea. It's my latest love. A little more potent than your regular tea and you consume the whole leaf. Just a thought on this subject!

[panhedonic]

I grind green tea leaves and add the powder to my smoothie. Does that qualify as matcha?

[vendelin]

It is important to note that the traditional preparation of yerba mate involves adding water to the same batch of leaves several times and drinking all of these cups of tea. This will expose the person consuming mate to higher levels of PAHs than if the drink were prepared once and the leaves discarded. In this sense, enjoying a single cup of yerba mate tea that has been prepared from a fresh tea bag is unlikely to expose a person to the high levels of PAHs that are found in traditionally prepared brews.

Am I right in guessing this means the instant yerba mate I've been drinking must be terribly carcinogenic?

[panhedonic]

I drink matcha, the powder directly on my smoothie. Anyone thinks that bad? (one spoonful every morning)

[Godof Smallthings]

Why would that be bad? Good quality matcha should only have beneficial effects.

[normalizing]

i used to read yerba mate causes cancer but i figured out why by reading this. https://www.medicaln...cles/320828.php which shows green tea can also cause cancer and coffee should too most logically in that instance!