94 replies to this topic

[Ampa-omega]

i remember quite a few people mention PEA having activity on the ampa receptors though so far i cant find any specific mentions either in studies, if you check purebulk they mention it acting on ampa receptors, and there was a post on imminst here also mentioning it.
here is a link with a list of references i found while searching on pea and ampa receptors
http://www.forresthe...enylethylamine/

i expected selegiline to increase serotonin as well, im thinking at lower doses it may be selective only for mao b inhibition, but at higher doses it might inhibit mao a and lose it's selectivity.

Edited by Ampa-omega, 01 December 2011 - 04:31 AM.

[nupi]

It is thought to retain selectivity up to around 10mg per day and definitely loses it in higher doses

[computeTHIS]

I would be surprised if it did not increase Serotonin, at the very least once you go into the dosage range where it loses MAO-B specificity...

It would open up interesting options though as you could stack it with SSRI which is usually a big nono with any MAOI

I wonder if you could stack it with Bupropion though - it is not entirely clear to me whether that one is serotonergic or not

I've taken it with 150mg Wellbutrin XR, for a 1-month period. If anything, Selegiline enhances the effects of Wellbutrin. I noticed tinnitus and excessive irritability, so that's why I stopped taking Wellbutrin. Stopping Wellbutrin cold-turkey had no ill-effects.

As far as Selegiline and Serotonin goes, it's effect on Serotonin is incredibly minimal. I typically only take 5mg Selegiline, and I have no problems with occasional 5-HTP. I remember reading research that Selegiline was likely neuro-protective against amphetamine use when used in combination (using animal subjects). I wish more studies were available demonstrating its safety-of-use.

[nupi]

That's good news, would make for a smooth transition (I forgot the XR on quite a few days, I dont get withdrawals even after 48 hours I think but mood is affected)... I am not sure I really want Wellbutrin to be any stronger in what it does (300mg tend to make me hyper). How would you rate Selegiline for anxiety?

[computeTHIS]

That's good news, would make for a smooth transition (I forgot the XR on quite a few days, I dont get withdrawals even after 48 hours I think but mood is affected)... I am not sure I really want Wellbutrin to be any stronger in what it does (300mg tend to make me hyper). How would you rate Selegiline for anxiety?

It works very well for anxiety, probably due to dopaminergic effects and its active metabolites. It has a way of increasing motivation and confidence. Be aware though, that your body will re-regulate your dopamine levels after extended use with it. Even then, it still works well for anxiety.

[thedevinroy]

i remember quite a few people mention PEA having activity on the ampa receptors though so far i cant find any specific mentions either in studies, if you check purebulk they mention it acting on ampa receptors, and there was a post on imminst here also mentioning it.
here is a link with a list of references i found while searching on pea and ampa receptors
http://www.forresthe...enylethylamine/

i expected selegiline to increase serotonin as well, im thinking at lower doses it may be selective only for mao b inhibition, but at higher doses it might inhibit mao a and lose it's selectivity.

Beta-phenethylamine is the ingredient... oh, it's the same thing as PEA. Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah having trouble searching on pubmed, but it does make sense that it would at least be an indirect ampakine through dopaminergic pathways.

[thedevinroy]

That's good news, would make for a smooth transition (I forgot the XR on quite a few days, I dont get withdrawals even after 48 hours I think but mood is affected)... I am not sure I really want Wellbutrin to be any stronger in what it does (300mg tend to make me hyper). How would you rate Selegiline for anxiety?

It works very well for anxiety, probably due to dopaminergic effects and its active metabolites. It has a way of increasing motivation and confidence. Be aware though, that your body will re-regulate your dopamine levels after extended use with it. Even then, it still works well for anxiety.

Yeah I don't think it is a net gain of zero, especially with the metabolites.

[thedevinroy]

Doesn't Phenethylamine (PEA) gets destroyed by your stomach if taken orally? Also when you guys are saying DPLA, you are talking about Phenylalanine??

Yes and yes. The stomach acid tends to do a number on DLPA. Taken sublingually multiplies the effects by a factor of two or more. It tastes like minty ass, so I try not to take sublingually if I don't need to.

man i do my best to avoid anything that is best taken sublingually. tasting the true taste of these compounds is nastyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Phenylalanine is a precursor to Tyrosine.

why not just take Tyrosine since it is responsible for the neurotransmitters dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine.

The D-isomer inhibits the break down of endorphins, which causes a dopamine increase in the midbrain (according to WIki). It is not considered a precursor to Tyrosine. The L-isomer is converted into Tyrosine and is considered a "time-relase" dopamine precursor. Thus, DL-Phenylalanine tends to be the preferred choice over Tyrosine.

what is equivalent then to DPLA in terms of being just effective? I really dont want to put another substance under my tongue. Getting used to the taste of Noopept was hard enough. The way it sounds, DPLA is ten times worse.

so far there was mention of TMG and a couple of others. if the goal is to increase Selegiline's effects, isn't Hordenine a good candidate a well?

I honestly don't know what parallels DLPA, at least the D-isomer. Perhaps an ingestion of endorphins and tyrosine might do the trick. Chocolate + Tyrosine. You ever try cacao beans?

Hordenine will certainly boost the release of norepinephrine, so yeah it could be potentially a good combo. On the other hand, Hordenine is an MAO-B substrate, so the duration of action might be a little over the top. On the other other hand, hordenine's duration sucks, so it might actually be a good thing. Good point.

[thedevinroy]

here

A synergy you may want to try is selegiline with aniracetam, selegiline supposedly lowers seretonin levels, while aniracetam is a 5ht agonist/modulator not sure which exactly, selegiline would remove some of the anxiolytic quality from aniracetam and balance it out, selegiline will increase levels of PEA, pea will act as an excitatory neurotransmitter and also modulates ampa receptors, so it should theoretically work well with aniracetam.

Well PEA is like the body's amphetamine, which is known to increase dopamine/norepinephrine release and inhibit its re-uptake. The "focusing" effect from stimulants is said to be a decrease in NMDA receptors and increase in AMPA receptors in the PFC. I have yet to round up a study on PEA and AMPA interaction (I did look).

Are you sure Selegiline lowers serotonin and doesn't raise it? I feel pretty darn sedated from coffee and carbs.

while i was searching on whether deprenyl increases serotonin a few weeks back, i stumbled upon somewhere where it was mentioned that it lowers serotonin levels, it may be dose dependent though, as some sites mention increases of serotonin at higher doses, i will try and find where i read about it lowering serotonin, cant remember exactly where it was mentioned.

here is a mention
http://www.selegilin.../serotonin.html

Pubmed Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7893186

Yeah, that is definitely something. It does make me pretty darn tired around 2pm everyday after lunch. Makes me want to fall asleep standing up. I redose 5mg at noon. I also don't eat carbs till noon. New diet I'm trying. Anyhow, when you don't eat carbs for a while, the first meal knocks you out. I just never felt it THIS BAD without the Selegiline. It multiplies the serotonergic effects.

Anyhow, that's weird. I wouldn't say it depletes serotonin... but I'm also ADHD, so anything slightly serotonergic tends to have a double effect on me. Not sure why... just that's the way it is for me (and my dad). In fact, Nortriptyline made it worse.

[thedevinroy]

That's good news, would make for a smooth transition (I forgot the XR on quite a few days, I dont get withdrawals even after 48 hours I think but mood is affected)... I am not sure I really want Wellbutrin to be any stronger in what it does (300mg tend to make me hyper). How would you rate Selegiline for anxiety?

It works very well for anxiety, probably due to dopaminergic effects and its active metabolites. It has a way of increasing motivation and confidence. Be aware though, that your body will re-regulate your dopamine levels after extended use with it. Even then, it still works well for anxiety.

Yes indeed it does. Kind of wish it gave me some anxiety. I lack stress, so makes me Mr. Happy 24/7 (not to be confused with the cat-faced MrHappy posting on the forums).

[thedevinroy]

My Huperzine A + Pinebark Extract arrived!

To the mix, I also added an e-cigarette.

The pinebark keeps me from craving caffeine and tea all day long. I feel much more alive today and yesterday. Not hyper, just healthy. Great synergy. I only put one tea bag in today. In addition, coffee nor the nicotine didn't knock me on my ass today.

The Huperzine A is much more noticeable. Vertigo goes away. Hyperactivity becomes controlled. No effect on mood. Much more self control overall in addition to amazing recall. I love this stuff. It's my magic pill. Makes nicotine kick in 2x as fast.

[thedevinroy]

Caffeine is not a good synergy. Caffeine inhibits enzyme CYP1A2, which turns selegiline into it's neurotrophic factor stimulant, desmethylselegiline (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11162424).

Pinebark extract + Huperzine A is still helping fight the mid-day tiredness from Selegiline, even though I didn't take any since this morning. I really like that effect. I even at Wendy's today, and that usually wipes me out. Problem is, I combined the two for dosing purposes, so I can't differentiate their effects.

Anyone can verify if it's the Huperzine A or the pinebark extract?

(Pycnogenol and Grape sead extract are similar in OPC content to my standardized 90% OPC Pinebark Extract.)

[magister]

What type of Selegiline are you taking?

There is tablet form and liquid form right. I heard the liquid was better.
However there is also a liquid for in a citrate salt where as other are the
hydrochloric. I would think different salt forms would have different
absorption rates.

I think I am ready to try Selegiline again as my last trial I think I may
have been too young for it and it just made me sort of irritable and
easily angered. but now I feel rather flabby and old, don't really get
too worked up about anything really...yeah ok things are rather dull
in the bed. I think I tried some pills but was never really committed and
finally got the citrate liquid from some company in Mexico which
definately had some action. Just wondering what the latest was.

[thedevinroy]

What type of Selegiline are you taking?

There is tablet form and liquid form right. I heard the liquid was better.
However there is also a liquid for in a citrate salt where as other are the
hydrochloric. I would think different salt forms would have different
absorption rates.

I think I am ready to try Selegiline again as my last trial I think I may
have been too young for it and it just made me sort of irritable and
easily angered. but now I feel rather flabby and old, don't really get
too worked up about anything really...yeah ok things are rather dull
in the bed. I think I tried some pills but was never really committed and
finally got the citrate liquid from some company in Mexico which
definately had some action. Just wondering what the latest was.

I take the capsule form, 5mg 2x/day. The liquid supposedly is better, but it wasn't covered by my insurance.

To avoid getting too manic/uppity, I take it with Ashwagandha and Gotu Kola together. Though they are both adoptogens, Ashwagandha is a sedative at a lower dose and Gotu Kola is a stimulant at a lower dose. At higher doses, they have opposite effects. Thus, when you take them together, it cancels out all the time to a manageable normal.

[magister]

what brand are the pills?

[thedevinroy]

what brand are the pills?

The brand is not marked. I got the last batch from Rite Aid pharmacy.

[therapist]

Bupropion is not serotonergic.
I take it with parnate (another maoi)

[knutsayang]

Can anyone tell me if there are any dangers of taking Selegiline Hcl 5mg a day with

1. Coffee/Caffeine ( i heard it's one of the foods to avoid). Someone in this thread mentioned that it could work synergistically. What's the conclusion?
2. Huperzine A- you say in this thread that it is ok?
3. Vinpocetine
4. Tyrosine - is this a no-no?
4. Ginkgo and Brahmi.

Is there anything other common nootropic that I should be avoiding?

Should I just swallow the tablet or should I keep it under my tongue? it tastes a bit acidic and was wondering if it will have any adverse effect on my teeth?

Also can Selgeline cause hair loss? I was googling and apparently selegiline and hair loss is a popular google phrase with some sites claiming that it can cause hairloss.

Edited by knutsayang, 29 June 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[firechalice]

I have been using selegiline 5 mg daily am, with l phenylalinine (going to try dl soon), and tryptophan with b vitamins in the pm and melatonin for help with sleep. I'm trying to improve my mood and energy levels. The selegiline alone helped with energy but not mood, which is why I'm adding the phenylalinine. I tried PEA but found it to have an unpleasant after-effect, so will suss out the phenylethylamine production in-brain through dl phenylalinine. The tryptophan I'd been taking 6 grams daily in divided doses with St. John's Wort for past 10 months but this alone seemed to lead to dopamine depletion. The selegiline fixed that right up. Will look into pine bark extract as well as was reviewed above.

[protoject]

I am not sure but I am guessing seleiline would combine well with Nicotine [don't use cigarettes as your source though]. Reason I believe this might work because if I'm not mistaken there are mao-b inhibiting beta carbolines in tobacco which make nicotine more addictive or enhance its effect. Hence inhibiting mao-b with selegiline should increase the effect of nicotine... nicotine causes dopaminergic release and a raise in norepinephrine right?? Also is there any direct interaction between nicotine and mao-b or is nicotine's metabolism limited only to other mechanisms?

[gray.bot]

What about Idebenon. Human and animal studies have demonstrated that Idebenone can enhance serotonin production.

How do you think this would interact with seligiline?

[medievil]

I am not sure but I am guessing seleiline would combine well with Nicotine [don't use cigarettes as your source though]. Reason I believe this might work because if I'm not mistaken there are mao-b inhibiting beta carbolines in tobacco which make nicotine more addictive or enhance its effect. Hence inhibiting mao-b with selegiline should increase the effect of nicotine... nicotine causes dopaminergic release and a raise in norepinephrine right?? Also is there any direct interaction between nicotine and mao-b or is nicotine's metabolism limited only to other mechanisms?

Ive been thinking about that combo before too. Should work out well.

Any reports on using it with stimulants? want to combine them for potentiation.

[leftside]

Yes it works great with stims. I should tell you to be very careful with the stims + selegiline combo, but I know you won't listen mate haha.

[Ultravioletbllc]

No it doesn't increase serotonin and yes Sam-e at a modified dose Is what I use with Deprenyl when I run out of tiantepine , I have always supplemented betaine so its hard for me too say how much it does for the dep.....

[Reformed-Redan]

I took phenylpiracetam and ritalin today and had a bad reaction. Do not combine the two. Norepinephrine overload.

Deprenyl alone is good.

[Ultravioletbllc]

This of great Interest too me at high dose and no tolerance I felt almost No effect from methylphenidate , noticed a lot of odd yet extremely interesting and mostly positive and productive effects combining low dose (5-15 mg)d-amphetamine with supra - supplemented ( because I already take Deprenyl) Levo methamphetine ( between 10-50mgs) Some of the effects were lowered inhibitions , supreme anxiety relief , and get this lower then normal BP with a more normalized pulse ( was also blessed with heart palpitations and an arrythmia)but still in a healthy bracket!!!!and I have severe PTSD so go figure lol however have come too conclusion my PTSD based anxiety my odd and ADHD are dopaminergic in nature , mixed with pure MDMA I had severe hypertensive crisis on the comedown with No other substances taken oh wait I did take tiantepine and that was the best true pharmaceutical blend and potentiation as well as brilliant synergy between Deprenyl and a good adjunct the best part of the tiantepine and Deprenyl was this trifecta right here and this is aside from the nootropic effects


Deprenyl tiantepine mixture
Was also on
2-6 grams fish oil daily
1-2 grams curcuminoid wich I always consume with a small snack and fresh ground black pepper at least 1tsp black pepper
250 mg-1000mgs of CDP choline
200-900mgs l Theanine as needed
1-3 grams daily pm of a homemade 60/30 inositol / glycine blend
800 mg Alcar bi d
25-100mcg huperazine a at nite directly before sleep
4-9 grams piracetam a day
1.5 grams Aniracetam
400-900mgs of pramiracetam daily
Even occasional home ADR blend of Mao b inhibs cats claw curcumin kava rhodiola Icariin blend
Methyl folate 400-800mcgs

[FocusPocus]

@medievil ,@ leftside:

i understand selegiline stimulant combo is potentially dangerous, but what could be a potentially low dose ratio to try?

Selegiline 0.5mg s/l + Ritalin 5mg ?

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Actually an extremely good article on potentiating stimulants with selegiline: http://wiki.blueligh....php/Selegiline

There isn't as much of a "don't combine this with selegiline" as "be careful to keep the doses low" with most stuff.

[leftside]

Actually an extremely good article on potentiating stimulants with selegiline: http://wiki.blueligh....php/Selegiline

There isn't as much of a "don't combine this with selegiline" as "be careful to keep the doses low" with most stuff.

Yes agreed. Though you might want to be very cautious when mixing Selegiline with psychedelics.

[FocusPocus]

@lampscooter: thanks man!