36 replies to this topic

[khemix]

Hey all, I have a bit of a problem.

I find that I am a very emotional person. Although my definition of emotional may not be yours so allow me to elaborate. I'm actually an introverted kind of guy and on the surface appear rather flat and dry. On the inside however I am a lot more colorful and live in a world of feeling. I tend to obsess about random things and develop intricate plots in my head with social situations. Sometimes this will keep me up at night and at other times it will make focus when reading more difficult. An example of this kind of thinking is missing my old gf. I don't like her, nor do I really want to be with her any more, but I keep fantasizing about holding her and cuddling and things of that nature. That loovey doovey feeling seems to be what I wake up to every morning and go to sleep with every night. This is just one example, and other feelings can be euphoric or depressive and include things like doing really well on a test or impressing a friend. At the other extreme I become stubborn, impulsive, and my libido goes way up.

These useless thoughts are very time consuming and distracting and I wish to remove them all together. They get in the way of my rational thinking and are unproductive. I wish to understand the mechanisms of what control these "emotions".... is it hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.

So far I have tried 2 things that have worked but had nasty side effects:

1) I tried prozac. Prozac helped in the sense that it placed a veil over that part of my consciousness. But it just hid the problem, and didn't make it go away. The reason I stopped is because that veil also reduced my short term memory to the point where I couldn't visualize many figures in my head.

2) I tried reducing testosterone. This worked well and had the added benefit of killing libido. I generally felt more calm too. Again, this was bad because after a while I had no energy to do anything. My cognition was also impaired and I felt senile, forgetting things and the like.


I also tried racetams but wouldn't say they worked... in fact, they exacerbated the problem. I'm currently lowering DHT with dutasteride as a mild form of 2) and its making the impulsivity go away a little. I also plan on taking letrozole which eliminates estrodiol (a potent form of estrogen) because my theory is estrogen makes you emotional which is why women have scores of it. I may also try pregnenolone and stimulants. Please let me know what you think and throw some suggestions at me. I'm looking for something that won't sedate me or make me lose cognition... which is unfortunately what many of the agents that ameliorate this problem seem to do.

Edited by khemix, 21 November 2011 - 02:49 AM.

[Propoxy]

gaba and l-theanine to help you relax

[Sartac]

I can relate. My "solution" was burning bridges and avoiding social encounters. This worked out ok with dealing with shitty people. I'm reclusive and an "outsider" but I never liked the idea of being normal anyway, heh. You could just run with it and seek out frequent social contact and/or dating instead, so that things become less intense with experience. But it may be worthwhile to be independent for a time in order to come to terms and get over dependency issues, if any do exist. Getting burned on a ltr was downright dangerous in my case.

I'm still bitter that it seems like a normal part of growing up is becoming emotionally shallow and fake. This is honestly how others experienced in dating appear to me.

Exercise is a good release for pent up emotion. Wish I had the energy and emotion of years past to throw at the weights. So now I'm worried about unrepressing things..

[rwac]

Have you tested your testosterone levels and all your hormone levels in general?

Being very emotional sounds like a symptom of low testosterone.

[truboy]

for me best way to kill emotions is to control them! Not to be zomby LOL)
i found theanine good for this, also small doses of Pramiracetam(piracetam makes me too emotional).

Worth checking.

[nupi]

That sounds very familiar (although it does not happen with exes for me but with girls I should have been able to get with or are still trying to - if only I wasnt ridiculously shy) - personally I suspect I have too low Testosterone, if anything (gonna get a test either in December or January, want to know, once and for all).

As for the hermit approach, I know it is very tempting (tried myself for the past couple of weeks and I have to say, Wellbutrin + Ashwagandha + Bacopa can make for a fairly comfortable life all on your own but I also start to feel the Wellbutrin is messing with my memory) but it seems very very dangerous.While there is a lot of truth to the fact that you should be able to be happy on your own, man is also a social animal. And the perspective of staying alone forever, is well, not very enticing.

Never mind, Bacopa (that one definitely also lowers libido) and Ashwagandha might be worth a try. Otherwise, benzos do a fabulous job at shutting down these kinds of emotions / thoughts but the side effects are pretty nasty.

You may also want to look into CBT though to be honest, I see it as having limited chance of success for myself - with the meds I can zone out thoughts, but it is often an active thing, actively saying to myself "I dont want to think of this now!"

[moomoo]

DMAE (Lucidril) always turned down my emotions. There are many posts concerning it on this forum (and others have described the emotional "blunting" that happens).

Edited by moomoo, 21 November 2011 - 01:32 PM.

[JChief]

When you say you tried the "racetams" did you try pramiracetam specifically?

[Thorsten3]

No one even mentioned therapy?

[8bitmore]

No one even mentioned therapy?

No, but they should have.. I've literally been in frames of mind (emotionally and cognitively) that would resemble everything in between heaven and hell due to processing old emotional patterns. When things feel ridiculously odd/crap for no apparent reason chances are, according to my experience, very very high that there's something stuck emotionally that NEEDS to be looked at. The mind/self is much more like a infinitely complex quantum computer than a simple organ one can punch into submission with chemicals - at most many simply end up blunting the non-linear feedback mechanisms of the mind.

Stay safe and have some love right here, evolution ensures that in the end there's literally only one way to go and its forward, so might as well take it!

Edited by 8bitmore, 21 November 2011 - 02:15 PM.

[moomoo]

I may also try pregnenolone and stimulants.

I wouldn't try pregnenolone, personally. Hormone imbalances are the last thing it sounds like you need.

[JChief]

No one even mentioned therapy?

Or therapy. Honestly I understand that not everything has a chemical solution. I just assumed the OP meant medicine/supplements. And with the knowledge that someone like me would never take the time to do so I made my recommendation under the assumption that therapy is always an assumed option. Perhaps that isn't the case.

[hippocampus]

(1) mindfulness meditation
(2) psychotherapies based on mindfulness meditation
(3), (4), (5) mindfulness meditation
(6) omega 3 (fish oil) is great mood stabilizer
(7) mindfulness meditation
(8) ketogenic diet may have mood-stabilizing properties, but I dunno more 'bout that. might try coconut oil, but I doubt it'll help you.
(9) lithium?

Edited by hippocampus, 21 November 2011 - 04:39 PM.

[khemix]

Have you tested your testosterone levels and all your hormone levels in general?

Being very emotional sounds like a symptom of low testosterone.

Yes I have. They all came out normal. Initially I thought T made one emotional, but it turns out its the conversion to E that likely does this. This is why I'm considering reducing E significantly.

gaba and l-theanine to help you relax

I tried GABA and didn't feel anything. I will look into l-theanine. I don't generally like GABA/benzos because tolerance develops really fast.

When you say you tried the "racetams" did you try pramiracetam specifically?

No, I tried piracetam, aniracetam, and oxiracetam. Pira and ani were identical imo. I couldn't feel much of the oxi. I'm in Canada, wouldn't know where to get something like prami.

No one even mentioned therapy?

Or therapy. Honestly I understand that not everything has a chemical solution. I just assumed the OP meant medicine/supplements. And with the knowledge that someone like me would never take the time to do so I made my recommendation under the assumption that therapy is always an assumed option. Perhaps that isn't the case.

I did therapy. I was told mild social anxiety and I was given the prozac. I still do sessions.


Thank you for the responses so far. I should mention that this is not the only thing I'm doing... I currently exercise frequently, take multi's and fish oils, and try to improve diet. I'm just looking for a chemical solution to supplement everything.




What is meditation and where do I learn more about it?

Edited by khemix, 21 November 2011 - 06:24 PM.

[rwac]

Have you tested your testosterone levels and all your hormone levels in general?

Being very emotional sounds like a symptom of low testosterone.

Yes I have. They all came out normal. Initially I thought T made one emotional, but it turns out its the conversion to E that likely does this. This is why I'm considering reducing E significantly.

Well, the official definition of normal is a very wide range. Actually, they should instead check for age-appropriate testosterone levels. So I would ask you how old you are and what were your testosterone levels.

You should look at something like this page: http://www.mens-horm...one-levels.html

It will tell you where your testosterone levels are, relative to your age group.

[khemix]

Have you tested your testosterone levels and all your hormone levels in general?

Being very emotional sounds like a symptom of low testosterone.

Yes I have. They all came out normal. Initially I thought T made one emotional, but it turns out its the conversion to E that likely does this. This is why I'm considering reducing E significantly.

Well, the official definition of normal is a very wide range. Actually, they should instead check for age-appropriate testosterone levels. So I would ask you how old you are and what were your testosterone levels.

You should look at something like this page: http://www.mens-horm...one-levels.html

It will tell you where your testosterone levels are, relative to your age group.

I'm 25, my T was about 450ng/dL

I don't like when I feel my T levels are up... I get arrogant, impulsive, and my emotions become more macho.

[sam7777]

Well pal you are just like me, OP.

First off, book mark that topic for http://www.longecity...mnia-cure-here/
That topic's OP's advice is good for life. Keep it close.

Second, do not consider emotions in and of themselves, bad. They are inappropriate outside their respective situations, certainly. But, it is still a sign that you perceive the world in a certain way. You may be attuned to things that others are not quite able to see. You may be overly sensitive to things in life that strike you as important. You do have to understand that we live in a world of people who take a great deal of conscience, consciousness, morality, ethics, empathy, mortality, etc for granted.

You are turning your introspection inward on yourself rather than outward as expression. What you need are things to channel your emotional energy into as a form of expression. You also have to understand why the emotions are important, what you are hung up on, and why it is important to convey this level of importance to the rest of the world. Blunting emotions is a form of blunting intelligence... Intelligence is observation and inference... You have a gift do not "kill it"...

You probably do have a biological physiological root for your impulsive thinking, as I do. It probably is at least partly due to hormones and neurotransmitters, but it is also as I suspect - that your brain is wired differently than a normal persons. This is comparable though not at all like ADD. Moreover, it probably is a result of certain genetic factors/susceptibility to your environment and diet. In other words, you have things that are acting like toxins, and if you want to adequately move forward with your life, you need to detox.

I plan to do this- a 10 day fresh juiced fast with limited amounts of coconut/palm/olive oil, sleep by 10 pm, daily walking for several hours, absolutely no caffeine or solid food, processed foods, dairy, meat, etc etc. I would recommend sexual abstinence during this time. You can let me know how you feel after 10 days of that.

Perhaps during that time, you will realize there are some things you would like to channel your creativity through. Consider picking up some reading on statistics, science, mathematics, philosophy, spirituality, art, literature, history, particularly and especially the advanced, complex, classic mentally challenging abstract subjects. There is a subject of this caliber out there that you do not know about that will ignite your drive to learn and work in these areas. Philosophy and literature are particularly good at making you expand your perception of life. It can really change how you react to the typical ideas put forward by people in the average day setting. You may find that you do not desire to agree with the status quo in all cases thereafter. Mathematics and the like, however, do a great deal to sharpen the mind into to a very intricate machine.

You could just run with it and seek out frequent social contact and/or dating instead, so that things become less intense with experience.

You should seek to be around people. Introspection is not helpful for developing the highly dynamic, personality intense, charismatic, emotional intelligence required to reap the true rewards of life. You gain experience that becomes second nature by really honing social skills. This helps to blunt that initial social anxiety you feel at first. You learn a tremendous amount from others, often about yourself. It helps make you a balanced people. Introspective people ARE imbalanced.

Both this personal reading I am suggesting, and this increased social activity help to dig up and address buried problems. Particularly, forming strong relationships platonic and romantic with other people. Trust is a good thing. It does exist, for those cynics out there.

When things feel ridiculously odd/crap for no apparent reason chances are, according to my experience, very very high that there's something stuck emotionally that NEEDS to be looked at. The mind/self is much more like a infinitely complex quantum computer than a simple organ one can punch into submission with chemicals - at most many simply end up blunting the non-linear feedback mechanisms of the mind.

You have to give the body the emotional satisfaction it wants. If you suppress it, you will not live a very productive or happy life.

I'm still bitter that it seems like a normal part of growing up is becoming emotionally shallow and fake. This is honestly how others experienced in dating appear to me

They are whores/sheep/lost. At best they are entirely self serving. Make no mistake, that there are many 90+ year olds that lived a life of self serving cruelty. Do you want to be 90, alive, and know that you lived a life not emotionally generous and compassionate to the people you had in your life?

[hippocampus]

What is meditation and where do I learn more about it?

meditation is a basically concentration. there are two main forms of it: mantra meditation and mindfulness meditation. in mantra meditation you repeat mantra all the time and focus on it as much as possible. in mindfulness meditation you focus on breathing and when any thought crosses your mind you accept it and don't evaluate it as good or as bad (this is called equanimity). it won't kill your emotions but you'll have more control over them.
I suggest you to read any book from Jon Kabat-Zinn (I read Wherever you go, there you are) or any other author, you can find many good articles on internet, just search "mindfulness meditation" (not just "meditation").
meditation is very good against anxiety, depression and it's good for brain (just look at wikipedia for health effects).



the effects won't come in one day, you have to practice it every day. don't be disappointed if you're not successful at first. it simple but not easy as Kabat-Zinn says. you can also practice equanimity in every day situations. for example if something good or bad happens to you, you say to yourself: it's not good or bad, it just is. it may sound weird at first, but it's really good once you feel it.

I also suggest you to read Descartes Error from Antonio Damasio. in it he describes a patient who didn't have any emotions. he would decide over insignificant things for hours just because he didn't have connection between prefrontal cortex and limbic system. so no emotions is not a good thing, mood stabilization is something completely different.

Edited by hippocampus, 21 November 2011 - 11:45 PM.

[pback238]

I believe the hormone imbalance is secondary and that correcting the emotional imbalance on a neurological level will help your hormones. Try lithium orotate- seriously this stuff is a miracle and the best thing I've ever taken, and i've tried hundreds of things. I have symptoms similar to what you describe. 5 to 10 mg of lithium per day. There have been no side effects and every aspect of my health has improved over the course of only a few weeks. I also believe SAM-e has been working synergisticly with this to improve cognitive function and restore much needed balance to my brain function. Try the lithium though, you sound like you would benefit from it.

[Raptor87]

I dont think that you can kill your thoughts with drugs without having sideeffects and such. I dont know how you reduced your T- levels but dont, that would cause more harm than you would want.

Are you sure that you are emotional? There is a difference in being emotional or having a wide spectrum of anxiety. Too me it sounds that you suffer from (GAD). Furthermore there is a difference in being an introvert or becoming one because of social anxiety.

Caffeine/L-theanine could help you a bit but if you have issues with anxiety then caffeine could trigger your condition even more.

The mindschemes that you talk about sounds like unresolved psychological issues, it would be good to get a new gf or lay to get over the old one.

I think CBT or MCBT would be good for you to keep your head in check when you are about to go off to fantasy- island. Also a workout regime and a strict daily plan that you follow would be good for keeping your head occupied.

As hippocampus said:

(1) mindfulness meditation
(2) psychotherapies based on mindfulness meditation
(3), (4), (5) mindfulness meditation
(6) omega 3 (fish oil) is great mood stabilizer

I think that isolation would make things worse for you so it would be good to start socializing more. Nothing is worse for the brain than sitting at home doing nothing, then your mind is bound to travel off.

[evodude]

if you just care about the results , take antipsychotic and MAOI. You can take it until the end of years.. But no emotion equals zombie like. You wont care, about anything. So even if you could go into happyworld and sit in your chair going off to fantasyland you still need to eat and thus you still need money, thus going into the world and doing stuff you dont feel like.

Edited by evodude, 24 November 2011 - 10:48 PM.

[khemix]

Ok so here is what I decided I'll do.

1) Theanine - I just started drinking 2 cups of quality green tea (which amounts to ~100mg theanine) every morning so its nice not to needing a pill for everything. Already I have noticed a calming effect. The caffeine makes my heart a little racey though.

2) Lithium orotate - I'll be trying this next week when I go to pick it up, something like 5-10mg daily. My major concern is that it will act like an SSRI and wipe out my short term memory and related effects.

3) Memantine - I read a lot about this and it sounds like I will give 10mg a go. Will have to see my doctor though. I am somewhat terrified of the bad memory effects however.

The more I read the more it sounds like I have a mild form of OCD - though I don't have any compulsions. Call it anxiety or an obession or w/e, the best way I can describe it is the feeling you have when you're in love... where you are constantly thinking about the person 90% of the day... except that I'm not in love and I'm not always thinking about a person (although sometimes I am!). I'm also sleeping a lot I noticed... 11-12 hours a day and feel very groggy in the morning. My major concern with supplements is I'm scared of reducing cognition and making myself more lethargic than I already am which is what these serotonin and GABA players tend to do.

EDIT: A lot of you seem to think I am a social hermit who avoids people. Thats not entirely true... I'm actually sort of impulsive and outgoing around people. The only thing worth noting is I have a hard time making eye contact but I'm generally regarded as sociable although a bit quirky ;-)

Edited by khemix, 27 November 2011 - 02:55 AM.

[absent minded]

2) Lithium orotate - I'll be trying this next week when I go to pick it up, something like 5-10mg daily. My major concern is that it will act like an SSRI and wipe out my short term memory and related effects.

Where are you buying your lithium orotate from? I ask because that is not available OTC in Canada. Or did you get it from your doc?

If i manage to get my hands on the orotate (going to try and order from iherb.com) I'm going to crush the pills and micro dose it. That free 10-pill sample over at iHerb would last me years.

Edited by Raizy, 27 November 2011 - 06:15 PM.

[khemix]

2) Lithium orotate - I'll be trying this next week when I go to pick it up, something like 5-10mg daily. My major concern is that it will act like an SSRI and wipe out my short term memory and related effects.

Where are you buying your lithium orotate from? I ask because that is not available OTC in Canada. Or did you get it from your doc?

If i manage to get my hands on the orotate (going to try and order from iherb.com) I'm going to crush the pills and micro dose it. That free 10-pill sample over at iHerb would last me years.

I got Doctor's Best brand lithium off ebay.

Nothing in Canada is available OTC. I usually get most of my stuff from smartnutrion.info and it arrives within a week. For other stuff there are a lot of good supplement stores on amazon and ebay.

I'd love to know where to buy pramiracetam, can't seem to find anyone who carries it (the ebay sellers look shady).

[ViolettVol]

Ok so here is what I decided I'll do.

1) Theanine - I just started drinking 2 cups of quality green tea (which amounts to ~100mg theanine) every morning so its nice not to needing a pill for everything. Already I have noticed a calming effect. The caffeine makes my heart a little racey though.

2) Lithium orotate - I'll be trying this next week when I go to pick it up, something like 5-10mg daily. My major concern is that it will act like an SSRI and wipe out my short term memory and related effects.

3) Memantine - I read a lot about this and it sounds like I will give 10mg a go. Will have to see my doctor though. I am somewhat terrified of the bad memory effects however.

The more I read the more it sounds like I have a mild form of OCD - though I don't have any compulsions. Call it anxiety or an obession or w/e, the best way I can describe it is the feeling you have when you're in love... where you are constantly thinking about the person 90% of the day... except that I'm not in love and I'm not always thinking about a person (although sometimes I am!). I'm also sleeping a lot I noticed... 11-12 hours a day and feel very groggy in the morning. My major concern with supplements is I'm scared of reducing cognition and making myself more lethargic than I already am which is what these serotonin and GABA players tend to do.

EDIT: A lot of you seem to think I am a social hermit who avoids people. Thats not entirely true... I'm actually sort of impulsive and outgoing around people. The only thing worth noting is I have a hard time making eye contact but I'm generally regarded as sociable although a bit quirky ;-)

I
think you arrived at the right conclusion with the mild OCD and I would advise you not to ignore it. I've had similar thought patterns to yours since I was a teen - very iemotional but introverted reactions to things, complex analysis of situations and the works. Then in my early twenties sth traumatic happened to me and I developed full blown OCD with compulsions, and eve more invasive thoughts. Don;t kill your emotions because that might backfire, but learn to control them. Some help from noots might be needed, I know I use it, but do work on controlling these emotions and channeling them into positive things. Had I done that earlier I might have avoided much unpleasantness.
Hope you're well,
V.

[Ark]

Also consider Cannabis and Psycobillin these are both potent cures.

I also strongly suggest:
Memantine - lot's of good research backing this for OCD
Bacopa - helps get heavy metals out of the body
Lithium Carbohydrate - Stimulates your emotions also good for the brain.
Glutathione
Nac

Edited by Ark, 27 November 2011 - 09:27 PM.

[medievil]

Risperdal will kill your emotions wich is something beneficial for several ppl as you could ignore problems more easily and feel more at rest, but its also a bad solution, i agree with above suggestions.

[khemix]

A little update.

So I've been drinking 2 cups of green tea every day which amounts to ~100mg of theanine. There is a slight calming effect but nothing spectacular. I have been on lithium orotate 5mg for about a week and I can't say I notice anything good or bad.

Something very strange has happened. I staretd taking 1.0g of 5-HTP at night to help me sleep. It did the trick, but in a very weird way. I now wake up full of energy and activated but in a euphoric state which is almost manic - none of the sedation I experienced from SSRIs. My mood is absolutely great, but this isn't all good news. I now feel care free about everything, blast rock n roll music, and just let pleasant thoughts race in my head. Absolutely no depression or negative thoughts... I feel like a kid. This isn't good though because I'm evading all responsibility as I get all anxious if I think about work too long; procrastinatin is WAY up.

I really need something to calm me down and shut these racing thoughts up. I've tried oxiracetam and dexedrine but they only made the thoughts faster and more intense. I'll be getting memantine soon and really hope it is for me. I don't like being in the hypomanic state and natural high. I'm super easily exicted too. I usually have to wait until midnight when I'm more relaxed before I can do any homework =(

Risperdal will kill your emotions wich is something beneficial for several ppl as you could ignore problems more easily and feel more at rest, but its also a bad solution, i agree with above suggestions.

I rememeber trying Haldol 2mg and it didn't kill emotions. What it did is make me sleep 15 hours. Why would rispedal be any different?

Edited by khemix, 09 December 2011 - 09:51 PM.

[hippocampus]

it would kill your emotions if you would take it for few weeks. risperdal also have different mechanism of action.

if 5-htp makes you manic and you don't want to be manic, lower your dose or quit it completely I don't understand where's the problem here ...

[khemix]

it would kill your emotions if you would take it for few weeks. risperdal also have different mechanism of action.

if 5-htp makes you manic and you don't want to be manic, lower your dose or quit it completely I don't understand where's the problem here ...

I am hoping that its a temporary side effect and I usually don't give up on a supplement because it isn't great the first day or two.

What makes risperdal so special out of a class of many other antipsychotics (ie. haldol) ? I want one that will kill emotion but not attack cognition and sedate me, which is why I figured the typical antipsychotics are better.