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Epitalon (Split from Astragalus thread)


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#1141 Gramson

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 08:57 PM

For some reason, I am not able to scroll through postings here... but I have been able to bring up a " reply" box.

 

I have been using melatonan2 for about a week now, and the results are good. My keratosis spots have almost disappeared, and although it has not produced spontaneous erections, and am having very erotic dreams, with physical reactions.

 

Perhaps due to both epitalon ( one year now) and melanotan, I am very sexualy active, with a lot of fluid, including an orgasmic feeling that I have not had since I was 15.

 

As we get older ( I am 71) semen production slows down, and even with ejaculate, there is no orgasmic "high". I now have that.

 

Trust me folks, I am playing down results here, as this is a touchy subject for some. This happened when I started taking melatonan2. It is considered a cancer preventative for skin, and gives a dark tan after about two months, with no sun burn at all, regardless of exposure.... with a side effect of erections ( not experienced by myself) although my libido and sexuality have apparently ( with Epitalon and Melatonin) taken away a few decades of aging.

 

Out of all the peptides I have tried, this stack has been , by far, the most beneficial with anti aging results being physically experienced.



#1142 DeepBluC

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:43 PM

I have focus and clarity that I have not had for a while. I have noticed this in my artwork. Single minded determination on getting a project done. I believe epitalon may have a lot to do with it. just over 20 days on the stuff and i can see a difference. I will spend 8 hours at the beach painting and run off to only get more ice tea. Chatting all the time with people  but continue to work on the painting. Why is this so obvious to me?   Prior I could not even get started. I would talk and chat but not work on my art. A disturbance or any little thing would bother me, and stop me from forgetting the reason why I went to  the beach. Run into a problem with composition I work hard to overcome it...Placebo maybe. A strong desire for change yes that to. Melantonan 2 , still have a dark tan especially around my hands and arms.  Bought this because going to the mountains or beach for the summer I would rather be protected. Cannot say much for the side effects but the tan makes me look very native. also taking astragalus root, nac, theanine, alpha gpc and tianeptine. and of course mk677...



#1143 Gramson

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:10 PM

update

I have been using minimal epitalon daily for almost a year... less than 1 mg daily. I have not noticed too much, and I have noted that I "got more" out of TA  65 than epitalon, meaning an energetic boost.  Last week I moved up to 5 mg per day, thanks to the prices at ceretropic. I noticed a difference in overall well being the next day, including energy.

I do note that Khavinson gave 10 mg per day for about 20 days, twice  a year. Perhaps this is important, as opposed to a small daily dose.

 

I am also taking melanotan 2, and besides a CRAAAZY tan, my melanomas are completely gone.or whatever they were.

 

I am only using .025 mg per day, not .025 per kg, which would be 2 mg.

 

The tan after one week is very dark, but I run for an hour daily, in the sun.



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#1144 Huckfinn

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 12:54 PM

Hi,

What do you think of these guys' Melanotan2 nasal sprays?:

 

http://www.scenic-su...9582c-335102745



#1145 Gramson

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 01:21 PM

You can google an answer on that. The consensus is that anything but subQ injecting may well be a waste of money, and yet a nasal spray may be the next best bet. However, I think that certain nasal sprays that work on the brain itself, a nasal spray may be the best answer, but Melanotan 2 is not one of them, as it is mainly focused on creating a tan, and thereby protecting the skin from certain cancers.

I AM NO EXPERT IN THESE MATTERS :-) GOOGLE and pay attention to publications like PubMed.



#1146 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:49 AM

Hi guys,

 

I m wondering if epithalamin be more potent than epitalon ?



#1147 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:19 PM

Hi guys,

I m wondering if epithalamin be more potent than epitalon ?

I dont know. I wouldn't think so. Epitalon is the synthetic version of epithalamin.

Ceretropic came out with N Acytel Epitalon. Its possible the potency increased with the modification. They will also be coming out with N Acytel Epitalon Amidate also.

Edited by dz93, 27 August 2015 - 12:20 PM.


#1148 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 01:47 PM

 

Hi guys,

I m wondering if epithalamin be more potent than epitalon ?

I dont know. I wouldn't think so. Epitalon is the synthetic version of epithalamin.

Ceretropic came out with N Acytel Epitalon. Its possible the potency increased with the modification. They will also be coming out with N Acytel Epitalon Amidate also.

 

I read that too but on marketing website only.. There is studies using epithalamin and the result on the lifespan is more impressive than epitalon ones. and a few days ago a found some source which claims to sell pure non animal epithalamin. So whats the truth ?

 

for the modified epitalon form you speak about, its only interesting when we look for the oral bioavailability wich seems to be not a problem if sublingal isnt ?



#1149 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 02:22 PM

update

I have been using minimal epitalon daily for almost a year... less than 1 mg daily. I have not noticed too much, and I have noted that I "got more" out of TA  65 than epitalon, meaning an energetic boost.  Last week I moved up to 5 mg per day, thanks to the prices at ceretropic. I noticed a difference in overall well being the next day, including energy.

I do note that Khavinson gave 10 mg per day for about 20 days, twice  a year. Perhaps this is important, as opposed to a small daily dose.

 

I am also taking melanotan 2, and besides a CRAAAZY tan, my melanomas are completely gone.or whatever they were.

 

I am only using .025 mg per day, not .025 per kg, which would be 2 mg.

 

The tan after one week is very dark, but I run for an hour daily, in the sun.

 

hey gramson, you do not care about the side effect for melatonan 2 ? what about the moles ?

 

I dont know what is the best between melatonan 2 and 1



#1150 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 02:26 PM

Hi guys,

I m wondering if epithalamin be more potent than epitalon ?

I dont know. I wouldn't think so. Epitalon is the synthetic version of epithalamin.

Ceretropic came out with N Acytel Epitalon. Its possible the potency increased with the modification. They will also be coming out with N Acytel Epitalon Amidate also.
I read that too but on marketing website only.. There is studies using epithalamin and the result on the lifespan is more impressive than epitalon ones. and a few days ago a found some source which claims to sell pure non animal epithalamin. So whats the truth ?

for the modified epitalon form you speak about, its only interesting when we look for the oral bioavailability wich seems to be not a problem if sublingal isnt ?

I don't concern myself with oral bioavailability of Epitalon since I just inject it. I don't know anything about them or their effects. I also don't know if epithalamin is more effective than Epitalon. Could you link to the studies you read?

#1151 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

thers is a good summary from josh mitterldorf here http://joshmitteldor...t-on-longevity/

 

but in its analyse he confused the epitalon and epithalamin (he says its epitalon is also called epithalamin, wich is not)

 

so you can see a 25% improvement in mean lifespan in rat model using epithalamin while epitalon got no increase in lifespan ( http://link.springer...14230714#page-1



#1152 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 02:41 PM

thers is a good summary from josh mitterldorf here http://joshmitteldor...t-on-longevity/

but in its analyse he confused the epitalon and epithalamin (he says its epitalon is also called epithalamin, wich is not)

so you can see a 25% improvement in mean lifespan in rat model using epithalamin while epitalon got no increase in lifespan ( http://link.springer...14230714#page-1


I find that hard to believe. He showed no improvement in life span with Epitalon? There's more studies showing improvement than there are not. I'll read it more later on today. I'm on my phone right now so its a pain to read anything.

#1153 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 03:23 PM

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals



#1154 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 04:16 PM

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals


You seem pretty confident about that

#1155 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 05:47 PM

 

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals


You seem pretty confident about that

 

 

its not that im confident, its just that i cant found any source using epitalon on mammals that show a lifespan increase. Thats why i ask you to send any link you can have


Edited by Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi), 27 August 2015 - 05:48 PM.


#1156 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:05 PM

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals

You seem pretty confident about that

its not that im confident, its just that i cant found any source using epitalon on mammals that show a lifespan increase. Thats why i ask you to send any link you can have

I can't find any. I guess they never actually specifically tested epitalon on lifespan. However, that does not mean epitalon does not have an effect on lifespan. If you feel more comfortable using epithalamin then go for it. As I said, epitalon is a synthetic version of epithalamin so it should have very similar effects.

#1157 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:05 PM

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals

You seem pretty confident about that

its not that im confident, its just that i cant found any source using epitalon on mammals that show a lifespan increase. Thats why i ask you to send any link you can have

I can't find any. I guess they never actually specifically tested epitalon on lifespan. However, that does not mean epitalon does not have an effect on lifespan. If you feel more comfortable using epithalamin then go for it. As I said, epitalon is a synthetic version of epithalamin so it should have very similar effects.

well, if you have any, just send the link because epitalon does not increase lifespan in mammals

You seem pretty confident about that

its not that im confident, its just that i cant found any source using epitalon on mammals that show a lifespan increase. Thats why i ask you to send any link you can have

I can't find any. I guess they never actually specifically tested epitalon on lifespan. However, that does not mean epitalon does not have an effect on lifespan. If you feel more comfortable using epithalamin then go for it. As I said, epitalon is a synthetic version of epithalamin so it should have very similar effects.

#1158 mitteldorf

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:09 PM

Epithalamin is a natural extract, and epitalon is a synthetic version of the same chemical.  I don't know why the synthetic version and the bio-sourced version should be different.  It should be a straightforward molecule to synthesize--just four amino acids strung together.

 

Tom's quote comes from one of Anisimov's studies (2003):  http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/14501183   

 

 

Review by Anisimov (2001): 
http://link.springer...-642-59512-7_14

 

Abstract

Twenty-five years of study have shown a wide spectrum of high biological activity of the pineal peptide preparation epithalamin. Long-term exposure to epithalamin was followed by an increase in the mean and maximum life spans and slower rates of aging of rats, mice, and D. melanogaster. Epithalamin increases pineal synthesis of serotonin, N-acetylserotonin, and melatonin and night pineal secretion of melatonin in adult and old rats. The pineal preparation decreases the luteinizing hormone and prolactin levels in adult male rats as well as the threshold of the hypothalamopituitary complex to feedback inhibition by estrogens in old female rats; it slows dawn age-related cessation of estrous function in rats and induces the recurrence of estrous cydes and fertility in old, persistently estrous rats. Epithalamin increases the levels of triiodothyronine and decreases thyroxine in serum of adult rats. It further decreases the levels of corticosterone in the serum of mice and increases the susceptibility of the hypothalamo-pituitary complex to the homeostatic inhibition of adrenocorticotropic function by glucocorticoids in old rats. Serum insulin and triglyceride levels in rabbits are decreased by epithalamin and the tolerance to glucose and diuresis are increased. With respect to immune function, it was found that T and B cell-mediated immunity in adult and old mice as well as the titer of thymic serum factor and the titer of thymosin-like compounds in old mice are stimulated by the pineal peptide preparation in the same way as the colony-forming activity of splenocytes in pinealectomized rats. Epithalamin inhibits spontaneous and induced carcinogenesis and is a potent antioxidant, decreasing lipid peroxidation and stimulating the activity of CuZn superoxide dismutase. The obtained results demonstrate a high efficiency of epithalamin therapy for prophylaxis of age-related pathology, including cancer, showing a new physiological way to slow down pathological processes and to extend human life spans.


Edited by mitteldorf, 27 August 2015 - 06:10 PM.


#1159 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:18 PM

Epithalamin is a natural extract, and epitalon is a synthetic version of the same chemical.  I don't know why the synthetic version and the bio-sourced version should be different.  It should be a straightforward molecule to synthesize--just four amino acids strung together.

 

Tom's quote comes from one of Anisimov's studies (2003):  http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/14501183 

 

 

Review by Anisimov (2001): 
http://link.springer...-642-59512-7_14

 

Abstract

Twenty-five years of study have shown a wide spectrum of high biological activity of the pineal peptide preparation epithalamin. Long-term exposure to epithalamin was followed by an increase in the mean and maximum life spans and slower rates of aging of rats, mice, and D. melanogaster. Epithalamin increases pineal synthesis of serotonin, N-acetylserotonin, and melatonin and night pineal secretion of melatonin in adult and old rats. The pineal preparation decreases the luteinizing hormone and prolactin levels in adult male rats as well as the threshold of the hypothalamopituitary complex to feedback inhibition by estrogens in old female rats; it slows dawn age-related cessation of estrous function in rats and induces the recurrence of estrous cydes and fertility in old, persistently estrous rats. Epithalamin increases the levels of triiodothyronine and decreases thyroxine in serum of adult rats. It further decreases the levels of corticosterone in the serum of mice and increases the susceptibility of the hypothalamo-pituitary complex to the homeostatic inhibition of adrenocorticotropic function by glucocorticoids in old rats. Serum insulin and triglyceride levels in rabbits are decreased by epithalamin and the tolerance to glucose and diuresis are increased. With respect to immune function, it was found that T and B cell-mediated immunity in adult and old mice as well as the titer of thymic serum factor and the titer of thymosin-like compounds in old mice are stimulated by the pineal peptide preparation in the same way as the colony-forming activity of splenocytes in pinealectomized rats. Epithalamin inhibits spontaneous and induced carcinogenesis and is a potent antioxidant, decreasing lipid peroxidation and stimulating the activity of CuZn superoxide dismutase. The obtained results demonstrate a high efficiency of epithalamin therapy for prophylaxis of age-related pathology, including cancer, showing a new physiological way to slow down pathological processes and to extend human life spans.

 

Yes thanks Josh,

 

from the study http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14501183 I quoted: The results of this study show that treatment with Epitalon did not influence food consumption, body weight or mean life span of mice.

 

But it increase a bit the maximum lifespan by a small 6%..

 

The only studies we have that show a increase in lifespan are using epithalamin. Is the sequence of epitalon the exact same as epitalamine ?

 


 



#1160 Nuke

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 07:51 PM

I was wondering about the whole Epithalamin vs Epitalon myself. Still doing research on it. Khavinson's patents makes for good reading. http://patents.justi...mir-k-khavinson

 

It seems like Epitalon is the functional part of Epithalamin. Epithalamin is a peptide complex, 1000-5000Da in range. From here, http://www.khavinson...s-genome-ageing slide 78

 

I began taking Epitalon myself a few days ago, still to soon to jump to assumptions. Taking 1mg a day inter nasally. 



#1161 dz93

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 08:06 PM

I was wondering about the whole Epithalamin vs Epitalon myself. Still doing research on it. Khavinson's patents makes for good reading. http://patents.justi...mir-k-khavinson

It seems like Epitalon is the functional part of Epithalamin. Epithalamin is a peptide complex, 1000-5000Da in range. From here, http://www.khavinson...s-genome-ageing slide 78


I was not aware that epitalon is just the functional part of epithalamin. I think I might try to source out some epithalamin to try it out and see how it's effects differ from just epitalon.

#1162 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 11:17 PM

I was wondering about the whole Epithalamin vs Epitalon myself. Still doing research on it. Khavinson's patents makes for good reading. http://patents.justi...mir-k-khavinson

 

It seems like Epitalon is the functional part of Epithalamin. Epithalamin is a peptide complex, 1000-5000Da in range. From here, http://www.khavinson...s-genome-ageing slide 78

 

I began taking Epitalon myself a few days ago, still to soon to jump to assumptions. Taking 1mg a day inter nasally. 

 

very nice founding ! However im not sure that epitalon is the "functional part".

 

Btw, what is the lowest price for 100mg pure freeze dried epitalon please ?



#1163 DeepBluC

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 11:30 PM

you take chances buying on the internet. buying the lowest and cheapest does not always mean you get quality...more then a few very shady people out there. i read a lot of reviews about different companies. i stay with what works for me. i enjoy ceretropics because the reviews of others led me that way and time using varied products formed my opinion. i also use powder city and a gentleman on ebay named nyles....the lowest , cheapest price or a quality product that is legit...



#1164 DeepBluC

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 03:30 AM

Tom, you mentioned moles and I while taking Melatonan 2 recieved a lot of small ones only on the arms, Both right and left . Many disappearing  since late june when I took melatonan last. In one report on a blog an older person enjoyed the side effects of the tan(libido), but within a few days complained about moles appearing on his face and some close to his eyes. The tan itself is pecular. it works but is subsiding since June . the darkest tan is on my hands by the joints and side of hand. Extremely darks as if I have not washed for days and dark dirt has collected there. Anywhere my skin has been exposed I have tanned, but the hands especially. The other side effects that it may cause to your libido, to be honest I did not go thru. I used it to prepare for summer. I paint outdoors and wanted exra protection. I do not think I will use it again even though it does protect you by a dark tan. I just do not want to find more moles and then some new ones on my face.



#1165 Huckfinn

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 05:32 AM

Did many Epithalon users experience this "moles around the eyes" side effect thing and...are the moles sort of permanent or do they disappear?

#1166 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:17 AM

you take chances buying on the internet. buying the lowest and cheapest does not always mean you get quality...more then a few very shady people out there. i read a lot of reviews about different companies. i stay with what works for me. i enjoy ceretropics because the reviews of others led me that way and time using varied products formed my opinion. i also use powder city and a gentleman on ebay named nyles....the lowest , cheapest price or a quality product that is legit...

 

thanks, i ask because im able to produce pure epitalon too, and I wanted to check if I can be competitive eventually :)

 

Tom, you mentioned moles and I while taking Melatonan 2 recieved a lot of small ones only on the arms, Both right and left . Many disappearing  since late june when I took melatonan last. In one report on a blog an older person enjoyed the side effects of the tan(libido), but within a few days complained about moles appearing on his face and some close to his eyes. The tan itself is pecular. it works but is subsiding since June . the darkest tan is on my hands by the joints and side of hand. Extremely darks as if I have not washed for days and dark dirt has collected there. Anywhere my skin has been exposed I have tanned, but the hands especially. The other side effects that it may cause to your libido, to be honest I did not go thru. I used it to prepare for summer. I paint outdoors and wanted exra protection. I do not think I will use it again even though it does protect you by a dark tan. I just do not want to find more moles and then some new ones on my face.

Ok thanks for the record. So I wouldnt use it.. instead you can use some astaxanthin



#1167 Nuke

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:15 PM

Been thinking more about Epithalamin. Seeing that it is a complex and not a single peptide, it makes sense that it will have more targets than Epitalon. In link above it shows that Epitalon does increase telomerase, it also increase Melatonin production in older humans and restores thymus function. It also shows that it decreases Cortisol in monkeys, so I would guess in humans too. But I have not seen any human longevity studies on Epitalon (not that I say its not there). Epithalamin has been shown to increase lifespan in mice and to decrease mortality in old humans. Maybe if Epitalon lack some of the Epithalamin targets, we can use it in combination with other short peptides. Pinealon (Glu-Asp-Arg) quickly comes to mind.

 

Random thought for the day. We know that many indigenous peoples had eaten the brains/hearts/other organs of animals and their enemies. We also know that some peptide extractions had oral bioavailability, seeing that is how they sell it in Russia, as pills. Could peptide bioregulators be an explanation? It it possible to eat raw bovine pineal glands and gain some of the effects of Epithalamin?

 

I have no idea on 100mg Epitalon, I paid $600 for a gram with TFA removal. 99.2% pure.



#1168 DeepBluC

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 04:23 PM

@ nuke...interesting. my caution comes from hearing about prions and mad cow disease and what happen in New guinea in the late 1950s or early 60s


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#1169 Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:15 PM

Im not sure we do need to eat animal isolated epithalamin to enjoy it.

 

seen on examine.com :

 

Epithalamin is a hormone secreted from the pineal gland (similar to melatonin) that has been implicated in prolonging lifespan in Drosophilia, certain strains of mice, and rats. No influence was found in spontaneously hypertensive (SHR) mice.[46][47] For those that saw an improvement in lifespan, the values ranged from 10-35%, with rats experiencing a 57% reduction in mortality. In these tested animals, epithalamin administration increased melatonin secretion.[46]

One study administering epithalamin (6 courses of treatment of 10mg every third day for 15 days, spanning 3 years) to people aged 60-69 with aged cardiovascular systems and low serum melatonin noted that, 12 years after cessation of epithalamin treatment and during follow-up, some parameters associated with aging appeared to be either attenuated or reversed. The epithalamin group outperformed placebo on cycling power, improved lipid and glucose metabolism, and appeared to normalize the suppressed nightly spike of melatonin in the aged control.[48]

 

 

epitalon didnt got any result on mean lifespan in mice. We clearly need this hormone



#1170 Gramson

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 09:03 PM

vERY intersting additions to this thread. I shall update my own experiences.I have been taking Epitalon for over a year now, and in the past two months, have noticed physical improvements that I reported on last year, before an operation on bleeding ulcers. It has taken me thios long to recover to the " supermman" :-) rating.

 

I do not think that Melanotan has improved my sexual life so much as the Epitalon.

I am 71 years old, and I am having sex perhaps 5 times a week. I would add that I have NEVER had orgasms ( incuding body shaking) as I have now.

Enough said about that.

 

On Melanotan. I agree with prior additions others have made above. I run about 5-7 miles a day, in 90 degeree heat ( not that heat creates a tan) and my hands and back haVE  turned almost black, but my legs are a weak tan. On a trip yesterday fro Tampa Florida back to New Jersey, many remarked I was darker than others of African descent on the plane.

 

I think this is due to my years in the Canadian Army 55 years ago, in the far north. Even though there was miles of flat ground with snow, we would work with shirts off, and we turned almost black, due to the reflective quality of snow. These areas turned black with the Melatonan, while my legs did not.

I only took .025 mg a day. Yes, that is correct, .025. ( not per kg).

 

I would add that I am into DNA testing and genealogy. The University of Arizona has told me that they have " never seen a European with so much African DNA". I have also found that I am the grandson of Rudyard Kipling, and I am 10% Gujarati Indian, meaning Rudyard was illegitemate himself. So, perhaps this is coming out with the melanotan.

Perhaps it worked in tandem with Epitalon to cause this effect. I stopped taking it two weeks ago, and my skin is getting lighter. My fingernails still look very white against the skin.  Strange part, on my pALM, the palms are white, but the lines are black, as if , when my hands are clenched, the melanotan effect increases where skin touches skin.

 

Another bad effect...... blotches of tanned areas on the head. I am bald, but where I had a " widows peak" at the age of 16, that area tanned very dark where skin was exposed around the hairline, but now I am bald, it shows where my hairline was.

 

Freckles also appear. A scary bit is a lot of freckles on the penis. But those are fading now to. Looked like a strange veneral thing. Perhaps we can call it " Spotted Dick " :-0 which is an English dessert.

 

But I feel very good. The other peptides I have tried , including Melanotan, may be a problem for the kidneys to handle. The Epitalon seems beneficial and safe, as is Thymosin and Thymalin.  I think, as per Khavinson, Thymalin and Epitalon are a very good duo. The Thymalin seems to reboot a healthy system. I had symptoms of oral herpes previously, but these symtoms disappeared. I have NOT been found to have Herpes. ( mouth ulcers etc,)

 

Rich


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