In my research, I haven't found a single way to 'support' dopamine via supplementation that wasn't confirmed to be long term dangerous in research or anecdote. If you search well enough on this forum, there is enough anecdotal evidence against even selegilene to make any rational person avoid it (one member claimed to be near a sttae of Parkinson's after long term use). Personally, my experience with taking L-Phenylalanine in the very short term was alarming memory impairment that wasn't really very transient. I suspect that it promotes high levels of oxidation in specific regions of the brain. I also believe that mucuna, as well as anything else that stimulates dopiminergic neurons, presents too much of a motor neuron/parkinsons risk. I just wanted to throw that out there, and will continue to do so when I see dopamine support mentioned on this board. Personally, in my experience and research, the only safe methods to promote increased dopaminergic tone are abstinence from dopamine stimulation as well as through exercise and, perhaps, CR mimetic supplements.
Are you sure you don't mean L-phenylalanine? D- is the enkephalinase inhibitor and is only very weakly converted to L- and then tyrosine etc in vivo.If you're looking at bupropion for the dopamine support, perhaps give d-phenylalanine (not dl-) or mucuna 15% (no higher % l-dopa) at try first.
...Well, AFAIK.
L-phenylalanine is not d-, they do not produce the same effects in studies on depression, the l- is fairly useless from a therapeutic standpoint, they are not appropriate comparisons, and I don't think the l- is suitable for these kinds of uses anyway, even in the short term. I used d-phenylalanine when I took myself off bupropion for about a month, and I experienced none of the withdrawals and dopamine crashes I did the previous attempt to stop bupropion. The only downside was increase in migraine which is why I said I wish none of the d- was converted to l- in the body since it will eventually lead to an increase in tyramine.
The mucuna usually used around boards like these are the 60% and 90%+ l-dopa extracts which I think no one should use unless they already have Parkinson's.
http://www.med.nyu.e...?ChunkIID=21664
The magnolia in relora is known to interact with dopamine but isn't well understood at this time (if agonist or antagonist), but that is part of its efficacy.
Other than some other herbs that only gently interact with dopamine (from a relative standpoint) like jiaogulan or ginkgo, you are correct about dopamine promotion and safety. There is very little out there at the moment.
This is an observed correlation, and I'm not trained in biochemistry, but I tend to be more cautious of D isomers than L isomers as a rule because they tend to show a trend toward dramatically higher neurotoxicity for some substances. L-Serine vs D-Serine is a good example. L-Methampehtamine vs D-Methamphetamine is another good example. For substances that provide a stiimualting effect that is almost always part and parcel with neurotoxicity risk, greater efficacy will always be righty be viewed with more caution. Although, I realize that d-pheylalanine is potentially a unique case because of its opioid interaction and, regardless, you had a very specific short term use for it that may have superseded any other considerations. All that I'm suggessting is to do thorough research on any potential risk, as such information tends to be somewhat buried (not intentionally) for seemingly benign supplements.
I have to make a correction, though, to my last post. My bad experience was with Phenethylamine and not phenylalanine. It was late last night when I was writing. Although, these two substances are close and I would still assume that too much of a strong phenethylanine isomer (until proven otherwise) could potentially do damage. It may just take more, or the damage may just be on a lesser, less percieveable level.
Relora wipes me out, and I'm cautious of magnolia. Everytime I forget why that is, I research Honokiol and it takes very little time for me to decide against it. I did this recently, although right now I couldn't tell you what the ultimate factor in that decision was.
I'll have to look into jiaogulan as I don't know anything about it. Its action sounds interesting.
Edited by golgi1, 04 August 2014 - 04:41 PM.
Another thing you need to pay attention to is your thinking patterns and beliefs. Stop measuring yourself on retarted definitions and labels. Develop your so called intelligence in your own natural way. Don't worry about society telling you when and how you must be. Once you find our way you will start to excel. Human like to fool themselves with their so called intelligence. Humans are 94-97% the same dna as a damn monkey.
