25 replies to this topic

[quamquam91]

Today is my first day taking Bacopa monnieri (250mg standardized to 45% baccosides) in hopes of taming lingering symptoms of benzodiazepine withdrawal. The results so far?

• Tinnitus much reduced.
• Hands don't shake (withdrawal gave me quite a bad tremor).
• Thinking is clear: obsessions/delusions dispelled (they pop up, but much less frequently, and have no staying power) and mood stays stable.
• Appetite is reduced; I had been eating a great deal to cope with stress.
• No sedation or brain fog.

My thinking and emotions are flat, as I took diphenhydramine last night to fall asleep. As my thinking fleshes back out over the next day or two, I will be quite interested to see whether my mind can operate in layers, free of obsession, as it did pre-withdrawal.

I will be reporting regularly as I continue taking Bacopa, especially as regards a) the continued suppression of obsessive thinking and b) how well I sleep.

Bear in mind that, throughout withdrawal, I have periodically entered into windows of normality, regardless of supplementation/drug use. The longest such window lasted about a week. So, after perhaps two weeks have passed, I'll have a good idea of how much the Bacopa is actually helping me.

Edited by quamquam91, 02 February 2012 - 01:59 AM.

[Introspecta]

Please don't take this the wrong way but do you think there is any possibility that you are creating some symptoms in your head from fear. I know when I was withdrawing from opiates sometimes my mind would create symptoms and once I sort of went with it and stopped fighting it, they went away. When I thought man I feel like shit and would try to get away from it got worse.

You should Check out the Sedona Method. Its actually a path to enlightenment but the whole Method is whatever you are feeling. Anxiety, tremor, etc,you go right into the experience. Welcome it. Don't fight it. Just be with it and surrender to it. I know it sounds stupid and easy but people have cured serious illnesses through this method. What you hold in Mind tends to manifest and if you use this method it could possibly heal your brain back into its orginal state. I'm sure it wouldn't be overnight. It may take weeks and months but with persistance It can be done. I'm sure some scientists will call bullshit but the mind is more powerful than most think.

It seems like after 10 months you shouldn't be experiencing withdrawal still unless you were using something like klonopin for 5-10 years. I also understand Benzo WD can last a long time so don't think I'm saying your not experiencing what you are i'm just trying to help and want you to keep an open mind.

Try to add some theanine in there. If you don't respond to 2-300 mgs shoot for 500mg to 1gram a few times a day.

Sounds like your getting some good results so far though. I would wonder about tolerance setting it but hopefully you don't experience that.

Have you ceased all use of caffiene products? This would mostly improve your results as well.

[quamquam91]

Well, of course the symptoms are in my head.

My main complaints post-benzos are a) lack of sleep and b) batshit crazy thinking that just whirls on and on and on. So yes, the latter is entirely mental. I've come to fear my own mind.

Withdrawing from benzos imbued me with all the nastiest traits of religiosity: feelings of persecution, an unfalsifiable belief in some sick and malevolent order controlling my life (unfalsfiable meaning that this idea could be stretched and contorted to accommodate ANYTHING that happened--it all seemed part of this hideous scheme).

But how do I know I'm not just crazy?

Benzo withdrawal is known, by its sufferers, to come in waves. So I've been in this cycle--a couple of days of sleepless craziness, followed by a couple of days of normal thought and normal sleep. If some half-wit clucks about "bipolar" and "rapid-cycling" I'll ignore it. My mind is not inherently pathological.

My goal is to sooth my poor, ruined GABA system without prolonging its healing even longer.I refuse to live with one foot in the realm of exhausted relief and the other plunged into delusional hell. I can't live any longer with my mind turned against itself. It makes me sick to be a haggard-faced creature trundling along, inside of my skull either packed with cotton or pierced by the clarity of hideous delusion (e.g. messages encoded just for me in popular media and other schizophrenic bullshit).

I'm trying to convey the senseless suffering of benzo withdrawal. During "windows," all of these symptoms I have just described--these symptoms characteristic of severe mental illness--completely dispel. Almost as if I never suffered them. It's just that I can't bear any longer to live from window to window. I want to feel like a regular human being all the time.

[protoject]

update?

[quamquam91]

I see that in addition to being miserable I was melodramatic!

I didn't end up taking the bacopa or any other supplements regularly. If you're curious about my overall progress, you can check my other thread: Protracted benzo withdrawal and Gotu Kola, Piracetam, Bacopa

[mycotheologist]

No, you're completely justified to be pissed off that you are suffering this bullshit. You were on low doses of xanax for only 2 months and now you've been suffering for over a year. Nobody should have to put up with that. I took about 5 times as much xanax as you over a similar time period and I feel good every day. Before that, I got addicted to phenibut multiple times before the xanax addiction too. Yours is probably the worst benzo withdrawal case I have ever heard of. People who have very long lasting benzo withdrawals are usually people who have been on high doses of benzos for years.

Edited by mycotheologist, 31 August 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[quamquam91]

I'm pretty sure my withdrawal was complicated by Celiac and food intolerances as well as by previous use of other drugs. I also disrupted my withdrawal with occasional drug use (pot, opioids) and GABA agonist supplements. Otherwise I might have healed in half the time.

[inw]

I got slammed with benzo withdrawal after taking a prescribed dose of xanax up to 3mg / day and a VERY slow 2 year taper. Total time was on for ~4 yrs basically tapering down almost 3 out of the 4 years.
At almost 6 months off I'm still really shot out, only get a few normal days per month, I can't drive far or go anywhere far from home as I get crazy artifical anxiety setting in. Extreme fatigue,dizziness, derealization, etc... Recently I had 5 days in a row where everything lifted but it came back. You can't make this shit up it's hell, people usually turn a corner at 6-12 months off.

[quamquam91]

I got slammed with benzo withdrawal after taking a prescribed dose of xanax up to 3mg / day and a VERY slow 2 year taper. Total time was on for ~4 yrs basically tapering down almost 3 out of the 4 years.
At almost 6 months off I'm still really shot out, only get a few normal days per month, I can't drive far or go anywhere far from home as I get crazy artifical anxiety setting in. Extreme fatigue,dizziness, derealization, etc... Recently I had 5 days in a row where everything lifted but it came back. You can't make this shit up it's hell, people usually turn a corner at 6-12 months off.

I was still in hell at 6 months off. Be very careful not to take any kind of supplement that affects the GABA-A receptors. I believe that part of the reason my withdrawal was so protracted is that, either inadvertently or because I craved relief, I would sometimes take something or other that hit those receptors. Gotu kola, progesterone, cannabis, even mulled mead once ... these sporadic slip-ups seemed to thrust me back into hell.

[kagalive1985]

Sorry to hear you are going through this dreadful experience.

Which Benzo were you taking?

Try low dose phenibut to help with withdrawal (Gaba-B Agonist).

Hope this helps

[protoject]

Sorry to hear you are going through this dreadful experience.

Which Benzo were you taking?

Try low dose phenibut to help with withdrawal (Gaba-B Agonist).

Hope this helps

I disagree. phenibut made my sleep problems far worse than they ever were. christ going off the stuff , I myself and ive heard many others cant even barely sleep for a week, maybe 45 mins. On top of that it appears that gaba-b agonists may actually induce epilepsy in people who didn't have it before. Now I am not sure how much that is worth because the same could be said for some other drugs as well [paradoxical effect] but it's a point of interest at least.

[inw]

I got slammed with benzo withdrawal after taking a prescribed dose of xanax up to 3mg / day and a VERY slow 2 year taper. Total time was on for ~4 yrs basically tapering down almost 3 out of the 4 years.
At almost 6 months off I'm still really shot out, only get a few normal days per month, I can't drive far or go anywhere far from home as I get crazy artifical anxiety setting in. Extreme fatigue,dizziness, derealization, etc... Recently I had 5 days in a row where everything lifted but it came back. You can't make this shit up it's hell, people usually turn a corner at 6-12 months off.

I was still in hell at 6 months off. Be very careful not to take any kind of supplement that affects the GABA-A receptors. I believe that part of the reason my withdrawal was so protracted is that, either inadvertently or because I craved relief, I would sometimes take something or other that hit those receptors. Gotu kola, progesterone, cannabis, even mulled mead once ... these sporadic slip-ups seemed to thrust me back into hell.

Quam,

Thanks man, yea I only used bacopa,l-theanine,inositol, and 5-htp. The 5-htp seemed to increase agitation so I stopped all those and just use fish oil and magnesium malate. Hope to turn a corner soon, it really seems like there is no remedy except time from my experience and everyon else's on bb.com

Were you basically home most of the time at 6months out? At what month did you start feeling more normal and gain the ability to do basically everything as you did before benzo withdrawal?

Edited by inw, 29 October 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[quamquam91]

I got slammed with benzo withdrawal after taking a prescribed dose of xanax up to 3mg / day and a VERY slow 2 year taper. Total time was on for ~4 yrs basically tapering down almost 3 out of the 4 years.
At almost 6 months off I'm still really shot out, only get a few normal days per month, I can't drive far or go anywhere far from home as I get crazy artifical anxiety setting in. Extreme fatigue,dizziness, derealization, etc... Recently I had 5 days in a row where everything lifted but it came back. You can't make this shit up it's hell, people usually turn a corner at 6-12 months off.

I was still in hell at 6 months off. Be very careful not to take any kind of supplement that affects the GABA-A receptors. I believe that part of the reason my withdrawal was so protracted is that, either inadvertently or because I craved relief, I would sometimes take something or other that hit those receptors. Gotu kola, progesterone, cannabis, even mulled mead once ... these sporadic slip-ups seemed to thrust me back into hell.

Quam,

Thanks man, yea I only used bacopa,l-theanine,inositol, and 5-htp. The 5-htp seemed to increase agitation so I stopped all those and just use fish oil and magnesium malate. Hope to turn a corner soon, it really seems like there is no remedy except time from my experience and everyon else's on bb.com

Were you basically home most of the time at 6months out? At what month did you start feeling more normal and gain the ability to do basically everything as you did before benzo withdrawal?

I'm mostly normal now (17 months out) except for GI issues that have only been getting worse. I was totally healed at 13 months out, but then I drank alcohol, and that has thrust me back into withdrawal. Over the past couple weeks the alcohol-induced symptoms have finally been clearing up, but as I said, the GI stuff just keeps worsening.

[inw]

I got slammed with benzo withdrawal after taking a prescribed dose of xanax up to 3mg / day and a VERY slow 2 year taper. Total time was on for ~4 yrs basically tapering down almost 3 out of the 4 years.
At almost 6 months off I'm still really shot out, only get a few normal days per month, I can't drive far or go anywhere far from home as I get crazy artifical anxiety setting in. Extreme fatigue,dizziness, derealization, etc... Recently I had 5 days in a row where everything lifted but it came back. You can't make this shit up it's hell, people usually turn a corner at 6-12 months off.

I was still in hell at 6 months off. Be very careful not to take any kind of supplement that affects the GABA-A receptors. I believe that part of the reason my withdrawal was so protracted is that, either inadvertently or because I craved relief, I would sometimes take something or other that hit those receptors. Gotu kola, progesterone, cannabis, even mulled mead once ... these sporadic slip-ups seemed to thrust me back into hell.

Quam,

Thanks man, yea I only used bacopa,l-theanine,inositol, and 5-htp. The 5-htp seemed to increase agitation so I stopped all those and just use fish oil and magnesium malate. Hope to turn a corner soon, it really seems like there is no remedy except time from my experience and everyon else's on bb.com

Were you basically home most of the time at 6months out? At what month did you start feeling more normal and gain the ability to do basically everything as you did before benzo withdrawal?

I'm mostly normal now (17 months out) except for GI issues that have only been getting worse. I was totally healed at 13 months out, but then I drank alcohol, and that has thrust me back into withdrawal. Over the past couple weeks the alcohol-induced symptoms have finally been clearing up, but as I said, the GI stuff just keeps worsening.

Try apple cider vinegar for the GI stuff, I got the acid reflux, tight throat, and bloated stomach from this and it seemed to lessen it. Yea it sucks about the drinking, I guess you figured you were 100%. I will wait until I'm 100% for probably 2 months straight before I try to drink because everyone says the same thing about alcohol that it will induce the withdrawal for most people.

[inw]

Quam -

How are you doing now man? I'm ~8 months off, I felt pretty damn normal on Thanksgiving and a day in December too where I drove around and did some things. Still no fuckin consistency though, too tired to go to the gym more than one day per week and I still get the depersonalization when outside, fuzzy/dream type state.

It's so insane because I never had one of these symptoms before I was put on the xanax and now after it. I think it's gonna take until the ~12-13 month mark for me too.

[protoject]

I'm pretty sure my withdrawal was complicated by Celiac and food intolerances as well as by previous use of other drugs. I also disrupted my withdrawal with occasional drug use (pot, opioids) and GABA agonist supplements. Otherwise I might have healed in half the time.

This is gonna sound like a funny question but do you find oatmeal worsened the condition? Not sure if you eat it but i swear to god that if I eat it it makes me way worse. I chalked it up to gluten being on the oatmeal since it's processed in a wheat plant. But that doesn't make complete sense because I can eat some amount of wheat i.e. a slice of thin crust pizza, or a single piece of toast, but it doesnt make me crazy or anything

[quamquam91]

This is gonna sound like a funny question but do you find oatmeal worsened the condition? Not sure if you eat it but i swear to god that if I eat it it makes me way worse. I chalked it up to gluten being on the oatmeal since it's processed in a wheat plant. But that doesn't make complete sense because I can eat some amount of wheat i.e. a slice of thin crust pizza, or a single piece of toast, but it doesnt make me crazy or anything

Because I have Celiac, I can't eat oatmeal or any other gluten-containing/gluten-contaminated grain.

Quam -

How are you doing now man? I'm ~8 months off, I felt pretty damn normal on Thanksgiving and a day in December too where I drove around and did some things. Still no fuckin consistency though, too tired to go to the gym more than one day per week and I still get the depersonalization when outside, fuzzy/dream type state.


It's so insane because I never had one of these symptoms before I was put on the xanax and now after it. I think it's gonna take until the ~12-13 month mark for me too.

Keep the faith that you'll be better post-withdrawal than you were prior to it. After weathering withdrawal, I can handle anxiety better and feel less impelled to resort to drugs, supplements, or other chemical interventions.

If your withdrawal is like mine was, you'll appreciate your mind post-withdrawal in a way you never could have beforehand, and you'll live a better life for it.

Edited by quamquam91, 13 March 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[inw]

Keep the faith that you'll be better post-withdrawal than you were prior to it. After weathering withdrawal, I can handle anxiety better and feel less impelled to resort to drugs, supplements, or other chemical interventions.

If your withdrawal is like mine was, you'll appreciate your mind post-withdrawal in a way you never could have beforehand, and you'll live a better life for it.

Thanks for the encouraging words!

[mycotheologist]

quamquam91: Good to hear! Glad that you made a full recovery. Did you quit the trazodone?

[golden1]

Didn't know where to post this but:
I had slowly worked my way up to 3mg/day over about 3 years, now I'm at 2mg of clonazepam/day down from the 3mg.
Prior to getting on clonazepam after finally seeing a doctor, I was using phenazepam off the internet, which I tried and tried to taper with but none of the measurements or standards were solid enough to get anywhere(I also worked my way up to 3mg during phenazepam use because I didn't have the means to see a doctor and get a prescription or pay for either.)

Because of the times I tried to taper with phenazepam I know what PRETTY BAD w/d feels like and all the side effects, anyway

I went from 3mg->2.75mg without anything extra in the mix and it felt pretty horrible, but of course more bearable then my previous efforts. Then I was careless and I went back to 3mg a week later and stayed there for about 2 weeks. So this time I decided to try Nefiracetam(really because I had tried everything else and my nefiracetam just sits there otherwise.. not much else behind the decision) during my taper AND that I'd just go straight from 3mg->2.5mg. I took nefiracetam 500mg x 3 a day for the first three days and noticed only tiredness, slight shivers/sweating, and obviously not the best overall, but in comparison the side effects lessened amazingly.
Tried it again only 2 weeks later, this time from 2.5mg->2mg, took nefiracetam the first 3 days and noticed the same thing.

I'll have to post after I lower the dose some more, but nefiracetam seems to significantly reduce the torture of w/d... the only other thing close is aniracetam for me, but that only stops the depression/negativity.

[Galaxyshock]

Magnesium (up to 1000mg/day) and Theanine (200mgx3/day) may also be considered helpful remedies to relief withdrawals.

[Kompota]

Didn't know where to post this but:
I had slowly worked my way up to 3mg/day over about 3 years, now I'm at 2mg of clonazepam/day down from the 3mg.
Prior to getting on clonazepam after finally seeing a doctor, I was using phenazepam off the internet, which I tried and tried to taper with but none of the measurements or standards were solid enough to get anywhere(I also worked my way up to 3mg during phenazepam use because I didn't have the means to see a doctor and get a prescription or pay for either.)

Because of the times I tried to taper with phenazepam I know what PRETTY BAD w/d feels like and all the side effects, anyway

I went from 3mg->2.75mg without anything extra in the mix and it felt pretty horrible, but of course more bearable then my previous efforts. Then I was careless and I went back to 3mg a week later and stayed there for about 2 weeks. So this time I decided to try Nefiracetam(really because I had tried everything else and my nefiracetam just sits there otherwise.. not much else behind the decision) during my taper AND that I'd just go straight from 3mg->2.5mg. I took nefiracetam 500mg x 3 a day for the first three days and noticed only tiredness, slight shivers/sweating, and obviously not the best overall, but in comparison the side effects lessened amazingly.
Tried it again only 2 weeks later, this time from 2.5mg->2mg, took nefiracetam the first 3 days and noticed the same thing.

I'll have to post after I lower the dose some more, but nefiracetam seems to significantly reduce the torture of w/d... the only other thing close is aniracetam for me, but that only stops the depression/negativity.

Are you taking the nefiracetam for cognitive issues ?

[killshot]

Didn't know where to post this but:
I had slowly worked my way up to 3mg/day over about 3 years, now I'm at 2mg of clonazepam/day down from the 3mg.
Prior to getting on clonazepam after finally seeing a doctor, I was using phenazepam off the internet, which I tried and tried to taper with but none of the measurements or standards were solid enough to get anywhere(I also worked my way up to 3mg during phenazepam use because I didn't have the means to see a doctor and get a prescription or pay for either.)

Because of the times I tried to taper with phenazepam I know what PRETTY BAD w/d feels like and all the side effects, anyway

I went from 3mg->2.75mg without anything extra in the mix and it felt pretty horrible, but of course more bearable then my previous efforts. Then I was careless and I went back to 3mg a week later and stayed there for about 2 weeks. So this time I decided to try Nefiracetam(really because I had tried everything else and my nefiracetam just sits there otherwise.. not much else behind the decision) during my taper AND that I'd just go straight from 3mg->2.5mg. I took nefiracetam 500mg x 3 a day for the first three days and noticed only tiredness, slight shivers/sweating, and obviously not the best overall, but in comparison the side effects lessened amazingly.
Tried it again only 2 weeks later, this time from 2.5mg->2mg, took nefiracetam the first 3 days and noticed the same thing.

I'll have to post after I lower the dose some more, but nefiracetam seems to significantly reduce the torture of w/d... the only other thing close is aniracetam for me, but that only stops the depression/negativity.

I wonder how you can know if you are experiencing protracted withdrawal or just the same problem that got you on meds in the first place. I'm not sure you can really know. But I understand it is a comfort to say I'm not broken it's just withdrawal.

I've been taking Klonipin since 2008 peaked at 2mg per day refuse to take more. Over the last 18 months I've tapered down to 0.25mg per day. I feel pretty good. I tapered really slow each time never more than. 25mg. it usually takes around 3 weeks to stabilize, once there I feel basically the same as before the taper. Here's some of the stuff that helped me so far.

Magnesium Glycinate
Methyl former of b12 and b9
Choline
Uridine
Fish Oil
Exercise 30 min a day
High protein diet
CBT I did this alone with a book.

[golden1]

kompota - It depends how you define it, it seems to help overall when in acute w/d from lowering my dose. Those "short" periods of time aren't exactly when I'm concerned about my cognitive skills, just my well being and overall comfort and nefiracetam is the only thing that REALLY made a difference. Stabilized on a dose or not on benzos(years ago) nefiracetam does/did little to help me with anything.

killshot -
Since I am still on benzos and tapering, I'm not sure how that relates. I am lowering the dose and saying that nefiracetam seems to drastically attenuate every aspect of the acute w/d caused by tapering. (I even leveled out much faster than normal feeling almost normal on day 3 both times, and normal after 5-7 days).

Also I've tried almost every chemical/mineral/vitamin/etc and nefiracetam boldly stands out while everything else basically did nothing in comparison, save aniracetam which stops the extreme negative mood/depression during the first couple days of lowering the dose. I also noticed N-Acetyl-Cystiene @ 2grams for 2-3 days before lowering the dose helps somewhat. Also once feeling "almost" normal after lowering the dose, it seems like 400-600mg NA-R-ALA with the NAC brings me much closer to feeling completely normal.

***
I still have only used the above with two decreases in my dose though, so it could still be attributed to luck until I have more experiences confirming it.
***

Edited by golden1, 28 March 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[killshot]

Sorry golden posting from my phone the first paragraph wasn't directed at you. I just posted my stack because it has helped me and I thought it may help.

Just to stay on topic I have Bacopa and use it on bad days and it does take the edge off. I would probably use it more if I hadn't bought bulk and had more info on its purity. What I got is basically like drinking dirt and leaves.

[golden1]

Its fine I just want to make sure what I'm saying is clear

anyway I lowered from 2mg -> 1.75mg last night and took nefiracetam @1g, slept rather well. Decided to wait for side effects to appear which they did maybe around noon(nothing torturous but enough to want to just lay in bed(no focus, bored doing anything I usually do, and just feeling moderately sick and foggy)), I put up with them out of side-effect induced laziness and apathy till around 4pm when I took 500mg nefiracetam and within 15 minutes I felt increasingly relaxed and.. eventually more relaxed, clear headed, and normal than the day before I even lowered the dose(so I'm going to say nefiracetam would be of benefit during more than just acute w/d phase, for both well being and cognition. however, to note, I didn't feel this way about it when I tried it prior to benzos. prior it just made me very blank and meditative feeling which was cool but not that helpful). Anyway these extremely positive effects wore off after 4-5 hours and I took another 500mg with the same results. It feels like it almost completely reversed the side effects leaving just a small trace of them behind.

I'm going to say it almost definitely helps a ton in this situation.. like it's pretty much what I've been looking for the whole time(any sort of other drug that would ease the w/d), nothing comes close in the slightest. May seem silly to be so sure it works after only 1-2 more trials, but the difference is night and day. Also, when it wears off I just go back to feeling how I was, no extra rebound effect or such.

The real question is if it works on anyone getting off benzos besides me..